From 1917to 1922 between 7-12 million Russians, mostly civilians, were killed. This includes hundreds of thousands of Jews killed in pogroms (genocidal race riots). The Red Terror involved Bolsheviks conducting executions to wipeout political dissent and any threats to their power. The White Terror involved a collection of conservatives, monarchists, and proto-fascists executing communists and genociding Jews. This doesn’t count people who died in forced labor camps, which by some accounts saw a 10-20% fatality rate per month. There were mass rapes and looting wherever the several armies went. It’s been described to be as close to Hell on Earth as it gets. Between WWI and the Russian Civil War, the total population fell from around 170 million to 134 million.
I don’t think that’s being disputed. Both the USA and Russia had incredibly violent labor histories in the late 1800s and 1900s. The main difference is that in Russia, the workers+peasants organized and won, and in the US, they lost.
Either way this both-sidesing of violence makes no sense. You might as well demonize every just cause in history, or every person that defends themselves from an aggressor with that outlook.
Which was mostly done by the British, French, Spanish, Dutch, and Russians (Alaska) before the US became a country. Yes, the genocide of the Native Americans was an atrocity, but 90% of it happened within 100 years after Columbus arrived. Even so there was no 5 year period in the US to be that came close to as many deaths as the the years of the Russian Civil War.
“Pogrom” was coined in Russia and became well known largely because of the Russian Civil War.
Weird I distinctly remember reading about pogromists being one consideration for the bolsheviks in how to participate in the 2nd Duma and that was before the Civil War.
Asking citations is how we get everyone to tell the people who know what they’re talking about vs the ignorant libs who have “'common knowledge” and fuck all else. Lazy and obnoxious is the name for the lib playbook, talking about shit they half remember from propaganda fiction they pretend is the same as history.
Also, I’m not the one making claims. When I start pulling numbers out my ass you’re more than welcome to put very little effort into asking for the source. It’ll take only slightly more effort from myself since I do keep some handy before I post.
I hope you have half as much hate for fascists as you do for libs.
I don’t have the time nor the crayons to simplify the Russian Civil War so you would understand it. Asking for a citation that you could easily do a basic web search for is at best lazy and at worst sealioning.
[Video] LA cops force their horses to run over protester
If anything, it’s US cops learning from the cossacks, whom tsar always send against people when police was not enough. Running over unarmed people with horses was their favourite tactics.
Try reading about the Russian Civil War some time.
average .world user, how is the Russian civil war worse than anything the U.S. did?
Well you see they shot some monarchists and that’s equivalent to murdering tens of millions of brown people somehow.
https://lemmy.world/comment/17558559
Buddy I’m already on team “Fuck the Tsar”
A bloody Civil War to end monarchism is not equivalent to what the US gets up to on a regular basis for the sake of making capitalists richer.
The capitalists in Russia aren’t exactly sitting on their hands either. I’m on team “Fuck the Capitalists” no matter where they come from
What if fucking over those specific capitalists is a greater win for the capitalist class worldwide?
From 1917to 1922 between 7-12 million Russians, mostly civilians, were killed. This includes hundreds of thousands of Jews killed in pogroms (genocidal race riots). The Red Terror involved Bolsheviks conducting executions to wipeout political dissent and any threats to their power. The White Terror involved a collection of conservatives, monarchists, and proto-fascists executing communists and genociding Jews. This doesn’t count people who died in forced labor camps, which by some accounts saw a 10-20% fatality rate per month. There were mass rapes and looting wherever the several armies went. It’s been described to be as close to Hell on Earth as it gets. Between WWI and the Russian Civil War, the total population fell from around 170 million to 134 million.
Is your point that the people fighting against Tsarism shouldn’t have done so? That they should’ve continued to suffer without complaint?
Of course the monarchists and reactionaries are going to accuse their opponents of their own crimes, nothing surprising there.
My point is that saying Russia is a “Land of Peace” compared to the US is not historically accurate in the least.
I don’t think that’s being disputed. Both the USA and Russia had incredibly violent labor histories in the late 1800s and 1900s. The main difference is that in Russia, the workers+peasants organized and won, and in the US, they lost.
Either way this both-sidesing of violence makes no sense. You might as well demonize every just cause in history, or every person that defends themselves from an aggressor with that outlook.
Tell that to the other people arguing with me. You’re right about the rest though.
This is not comparable to the U.S. still
If that’s what you call a “Land of Peace”, I don’t think your opinion is worth much.
In comparison to the U.S.
Nothing comparably horrendous to the Russian Civil War has happened in the US.
??? THE GENOCIDE OF THE NATIVES
Which was mostly done by the British, French, Spanish, Dutch, and Russians (Alaska) before the US became a country. Yes, the genocide of the Native Americans was an atrocity, but 90% of it happened within 100 years after Columbus arrived. Even so there was no 5 year period in the US to be that came close to as many deaths as the the years of the Russian Civil War.
Citation?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Civil_War
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Russia)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom
Using whole Wikipedia pages as citations is terminally lib brained. At least cite the specific wikipedia sources jfc.
Citing “pogrom” wikipedia like you’re trying to prove the concept of it exists is just the dingleberry on top of this shit cake.
asking for citations for one of the most important and well known events of the 20th century is lazy and obnoxious.
“Pogrom” was coined in Russia and became well known largely because of the Russian Civil War.
don’t bitch about my comments when you have put absolutely no effort into yours.
Weird I distinctly remember reading about pogromists being one consideration for the bolsheviks in how to participate in the 2nd Duma and that was before the Civil War.
It was coined before the civil war, but it spread as a term used outside of Russia because of the civil war.
Asking citations is how we get everyone to tell the people who know what they’re talking about vs the ignorant libs who have “'common knowledge” and fuck all else. Lazy and obnoxious is the name for the lib playbook, talking about shit they half remember from
propagandafiction they pretend is the same as history.Also, I’m not the one making claims. When I start pulling numbers out my ass you’re more than welcome to put very little effort into asking for the source. It’ll take only slightly more effort from myself since I do keep some handy before I post.
I hope you have half as much hate for fascists as you do for libs.
I don’t have the time nor the crayons to simplify the Russian Civil War so you would understand it. Asking for a citation that you could easily do a basic web search for is at best lazy and at worst sealioning.
If anything, it’s US cops learning from the cossacks, whom tsar always send against people when police was not enough. Running over unarmed people with horses was their favourite tactics.