Over 144,000 workers are set to strike on September 14 if negotiations with their employers, the car manufacturers General Motors, Stellantis, and Ford, fail. The union has already employed the tactic of practice pickets at auto plants in Detroit, Michigan and Louisville, Kentucky
Good. More unions, and better paid unions means higher pay even for non-union workers. History has shown higher levels of union membership (and over 1/2 the work force wants to be in a union) raises pay for entire communities. When union membership was higher, the middle class was larger and the country was stronger.
The UAW’s strength was also its downfall. Union workers commanded high wages. Growing up I often heard people were getting $70/hr to push a broom. This is backed up by what I found on Wikipedia.
In a November 2008 New York Times editorial, Andrew Ross Sorkin claimed that the average UAW worker was paid $70 per hour, including health and pension costs, while Toyota workers in the US receive $10 to $20 less.[25] The UAW asserts that most of this labor cost disparity comes from legacy pension and healthcare benefits to retired members, of which the Japanese automakers have none.
When the big 3 have to pay 3x for labor and still compete, things aren’t going to go well, and foreign cars have really taken over.
Not only that, but the UAW has been very anti-automation. Ford built a modern plant in Brazil several years back, and said they would love to build a plant like that in the US, but the UAW wouldn’t allow it.
I spent some time doing some IT work in various auto plants around Detroit. I didn’t see much work going on. I remember seeing a guy sleeping under the line and the manager saying he didn’t mind that so much, because at least he could find him.
The high wages sound great, and may be great, in the short term, but the companies still need to remain viable and compete or there are no jobs for the union to advocate for. Detroit and the surrounding area was gutted and suffered for decades. I don’t want to see companies exploit workers, but I also don’t want unions to exploit companies to the point where cities and regions collapse, which the UAW had a hand in. I won’t say it was the only factor to what happened to Detroit, but unions can have their downside, especially when they get too powerful, which the UAW was.
This is from a socialist site that is very pro-union and point to the companies shutting down factories to keep up with Japan and Germany. They frame this as an attack on the working class and say the companies should have forgone profit, but if Japan and Germany are making a profit and the US isn’t, that’s only going to last so long.
This talks about the UAW bending over Packard so hard they had to merge with another company to stay alive, but even that wasn’t enough, so the plant shut down and the company is no more.
Not just Detroit, but the whole area was hurt by the jobs being moved and the plants getting shut down. Detroit had a lot of other issues with corruption and politics, I was up front about that… the UAW has had its share of corruption issues as well; that’ll happen when an organization gets powerful enough.
Why not read some actual research into the issue instead of googling for websites that confirm your point of view? I found those same articles too, and they’re crap.
Let me ask you something, did you even consider the source of those two websites you linked?
Why don’t you link me to this research you found that are so great, instead of just saying, trust me bro my sources are legit?
I thought the article from the socialist site was shit, but figured with this crowd it would show some balance instead of someone coming back and saying something was propaganda from the capitalists.
A lot of the things that U.S. unions need to fight fore are things that workers in Japan and Germany have by default through law - like healthcare, pension, protections against permanent temp workers etc
Oh absolutely. But unions are the only way to even approach a fair balance between capital and labor. Hell, even bullshit like the Baseball union running interference on drug testing in the Mark Maguire era hurt the game more than it helped. But the answer is to make the unions better, not get rid of them.
You in no way said to get rid of them, I’m not putting that on you. The attitude I’m talking about is the same that says,“There’s some gov’t waste, so we need to get rid of gov’t spending” instead of just making it better. Or the idea of going to Mars instead of making things work here. Again, not you, just my rambling thoughts.
Yeah, I guess what I’m saying is similar the government waste example, just from the other side. An inflated CEO salary or company jet doesn’t mean to burn the whole thing down, just make it better and maintain perspective.
I just see a lot of stuff these days where people cheer every time a union does anything and general consensus seems to be to squeeze the company for all their worth… but squeeze too tight and the companies (or industry) dies, then everyone loses. The company, the union, the suppliers, the customers, even the retail workers in the surrounding area… the impact is huge. I just want to make sure people keep that in mind. Balance is important and resources aren’t unlimited, even if it sometimes seems that way.
Good. More unions, and better paid unions means higher pay even for non-union workers. History has shown higher levels of union membership (and over 1/2 the work force wants to be in a union) raises pay for entire communities. When union membership was higher, the middle class was larger and the country was stronger.
The UAW’s strength was also its downfall. Union workers commanded high wages. Growing up I often heard people were getting $70/hr to push a broom. This is backed up by what I found on Wikipedia.
When the big 3 have to pay 3x for labor and still compete, things aren’t going to go well, and foreign cars have really taken over.
Not only that, but the UAW has been very anti-automation. Ford built a modern plant in Brazil several years back, and said they would love to build a plant like that in the US, but the UAW wouldn’t allow it.
I spent some time doing some IT work in various auto plants around Detroit. I didn’t see much work going on. I remember seeing a guy sleeping under the line and the manager saying he didn’t mind that so much, because at least he could find him.
The high wages sound great, and may be great, in the short term, but the companies still need to remain viable and compete or there are no jobs for the union to advocate for. Detroit and the surrounding area was gutted and suffered for decades. I don’t want to see companies exploit workers, but I also don’t want unions to exploit companies to the point where cities and regions collapse, which the UAW had a hand in. I won’t say it was the only factor to what happened to Detroit, but unions can have their downside, especially when they get too powerful, which the UAW was.
Won’t somebody think of the poor corporations.
FYI, a simple Google search would tell you Union’s were not the cause of what happened in Detroit.
I said they weren’t solely to blame.
It has zero to do with the decline of detroit, which actually started in the 1950s.
This is from a socialist site that is very pro-union and point to the companies shutting down factories to keep up with Japan and Germany. They frame this as an attack on the working class and say the companies should have forgone profit, but if Japan and Germany are making a profit and the US isn’t, that’s only going to last so long.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2010/03/whit-m25.html
This talks about the UAW bending over Packard so hard they had to merge with another company to stay alive, but even that wasn’t enough, so the plant shut down and the company is no more.
https://cei.org/blog/empire-of-rust-how-the-uaw-killed-detroit/
Not just Detroit, but the whole area was hurt by the jobs being moved and the plants getting shut down. Detroit had a lot of other issues with corruption and politics, I was up front about that… the UAW has had its share of corruption issues as well; that’ll happen when an organization gets powerful enough.
Why not read some actual research into the issue instead of googling for websites that confirm your point of view? I found those same articles too, and they’re crap.
Let me ask you something, did you even consider the source of those two websites you linked?
Why don’t you link me to this research you found that are so great, instead of just saying, trust me bro my sources are legit?
I thought the article from the socialist site was shit, but figured with this crowd it would show some balance instead of someone coming back and saying something was propaganda from the capitalists.
It’s capitalism. It’s always capitalism.
A lot of the things that U.S. unions need to fight fore are things that workers in Japan and Germany have by default through law - like healthcare, pension, protections against permanent temp workers etc
Oh absolutely. But unions are the only way to even approach a fair balance between capital and labor. Hell, even bullshit like the Baseball union running interference on drug testing in the Mark Maguire era hurt the game more than it helped. But the answer is to make the unions better, not get rid of them.
You in no way said to get rid of them, I’m not putting that on you. The attitude I’m talking about is the same that says,“There’s some gov’t waste, so we need to get rid of gov’t spending” instead of just making it better. Or the idea of going to Mars instead of making things work here. Again, not you, just my rambling thoughts.
Yeah, I guess what I’m saying is similar the government waste example, just from the other side. An inflated CEO salary or company jet doesn’t mean to burn the whole thing down, just make it better and maintain perspective.
I just see a lot of stuff these days where people cheer every time a union does anything and general consensus seems to be to squeeze the company for all their worth… but squeeze too tight and the companies (or industry) dies, then everyone loses. The company, the union, the suppliers, the customers, even the retail workers in the surrounding area… the impact is huge. I just want to make sure people keep that in mind. Balance is important and resources aren’t unlimited, even if it sometimes seems that way.
Looking at your post history I can’t tell if you are a troll, incel or both. I don’t understand how you are the way you are.
I don’t understand the point of this comment. It has nothing to do with the topic and is just a random personal attack that I don’t quite understand.