Unless you disable icloud backups which is turned on by default, or unless you happen to be using lockdown mode, “e2ee” imessage messages are backed up to icloud, along with the key, which literally defeats the whole point of e2ee. Even if you yourself are using lockdown mode or have disabled icloud, theres no guarantee the person you’re messaging has.
Isn’t e2ee messaging intended to encrypt data transfer between devices, not provide global security? The default iCloud backups are still encrypted, but the key is stored/recoverable by Apple. This is the ideal sort of encryption for 99%* of the population. For the 1%, an option to forego the Apple stored key is an option.
* yes, I made that number up. I will stand by it.
If you did a random survey of users if they want a secure backup, e2ee encrypted, they will say yes. Overwhelmingly. But if you ask the question based on the outcome of a forgotten password: “If you lose or damage your phone and have forgotten your Apple account password, would you like all of your iCloud photos, messages, emails, contacts, and documents to be instantly destroyed and unrecoverable or should Apple be able to restore everything if you can prove it’s your account?” they will almost certainly choose the latter.
If a user wants more protections there is “Advanced Data Protection” which fully encrypts all iCloud data however Apple knows you might lose your password or something so they require a recovery method before turning it on and make sure you know Apple won’t be able to help you if you lose your password and recovery method.
Also for certain sensitive data such as health data or passwords full end to end encryption is enabled even in standard mode as it’s determined it’s worse for someone else to get access to that data then it is for you to lose it where as generally losing your photos are worse then someone else getting access to them.
Isn’t e2ee messaging intended to encrypt data transfer between devices, not provide global security?
No that’d be server side encryption, something any major company has been doing for years now. E2ee is where even if the server turns out to malicious, it wouldn’t matter as the server has no knowledge of data anyways, only users.
but the key is stored/recoverable by Apple.
Right so its not e2ee, its just server side encryption. A lot of companies, including apple with it’s imessage, just use the term e2ee incorrectly as a buzzword nowadays for marketing
No, they’re encrypted. But Apple stores a copy of your key because most people forget their Apple password at some point (usually after they’ve wiped their phone and are setting up a new one) and need Apple to reset their password/re-enable their encryption key on the new device.
Also know that if you still want iCloud backups but want everything stored encrypted you can enable “Advanced data protection” which means that Apple doesn’t store the encryption key, you do need to setup a recovery method such as a recovery key or recovery contact however if you lose your device and recovery method your data is forever lost and Apple can’t help you like it can in standard data protection mode.
Also note certain sensitive categories such a health and passwords are always encrypted as it’s determined it’s worse for someone else to get access to that data then it is for the user to lose it meanwhile generally a user losing their photos and messages if they forget their password is worse then if a hacker resets the password and gets access.
I mean this is a bit ironic, considering how their “e2ee” imessage app is still backdoored by default. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
Unless you disable icloud backups which is turned on by default, or unless you happen to be using lockdown mode, “e2ee” imessage messages are backed up to icloud, along with the key, which literally defeats the whole point of e2ee. Even if you yourself are using lockdown mode or have disabled icloud, theres no guarantee the person you’re messaging has.
Isn’t e2ee messaging intended to encrypt data transfer between devices, not provide global security? The default iCloud backups are still encrypted, but the key is stored/recoverable by Apple. This is the ideal sort of encryption for 99%* of the population. For the 1%, an option to forego the Apple stored key is an option.
* yes, I made that number up. I will stand by it.
If you did a random survey of users if they want a secure backup, e2ee encrypted, they will say yes. Overwhelmingly. But if you ask the question based on the outcome of a forgotten password: “If you lose or damage your phone and have forgotten your Apple account password, would you like all of your iCloud photos, messages, emails, contacts, and documents to be instantly destroyed and unrecoverable or should Apple be able to restore everything if you can prove it’s your account?” they will almost certainly choose the latter.
If a user wants more protections there is “Advanced Data Protection” which fully encrypts all iCloud data however Apple knows you might lose your password or something so they require a recovery method before turning it on and make sure you know Apple won’t be able to help you if you lose your password and recovery method.
Also for certain sensitive data such as health data or passwords full end to end encryption is enabled even in standard mode as it’s determined it’s worse for someone else to get access to that data then it is for you to lose it where as generally losing your photos are worse then someone else getting access to them.
No that’d be server side encryption, something any major company has been doing for years now. E2ee is where even if the server turns out to malicious, it wouldn’t matter as the server has no knowledge of data anyways, only users.
Right so its not e2ee, its just server side encryption. A lot of companies, including apple with it’s imessage, just use the term e2ee incorrectly as a buzzword nowadays for marketing
Are the icloud messages stored in plain text?
No, they’re encrypted. But Apple stores a copy of your key because most people forget their Apple password at some point (usually after they’ve wiped their phone and are setting up a new one) and need Apple to reset their password/re-enable their encryption key on the new device.
Huh the more you know…
Also know that if you still want iCloud backups but want everything stored encrypted you can enable “Advanced data protection” which means that Apple doesn’t store the encryption key, you do need to setup a recovery method such as a recovery key or recovery contact however if you lose your device and recovery method your data is forever lost and Apple can’t help you like it can in standard data protection mode.
Also note certain sensitive categories such a health and passwords are always encrypted as it’s determined it’s worse for someone else to get access to that data then it is for the user to lose it meanwhile generally a user losing their photos and messages if they forget their password is worse then if a hacker resets the password and gets access.