I don’t have exact answers for this, but if you look at it as if Adam was indicative of all of mankind (which he was), you can see it less like people are condemned when theyre born but more like all people are inherently broken/flawed/sinners. Original sin was just the first example of it. If there were people out in the world who were objectively flawless and sinless I’d take a totally different stance, but mankind being broken and evil is just pretty consistent with history and with the bible
Christianity doesn’t exactly say it’s a grievous error to be born and that you’re condemned for it, it more says that you’re inherently broken but you can still be redeemed
“you’re inherently broken going to hell because you were born but you can still be redeemed.”
Fixed that for you. Christianity says the default for every soul is hell unless they are Christians. You don’t need to do anything to “earn” hell, that’s just the default setting.
The contrast though is that you don’t “earn” heaven either. Nothing makes a Christian and a non Christian so inherently different from each other that one fundamentally deserves heaven and the other hell. It’s saved by faith, not by works
And I take issue with you saying humans are broken/flawed/sinners by default. We are not. We simply are. Death gives life meaning. Atrocities give accomplishments meaning. “Evil” gives “Good” depth. Shadow defines light.
Yeah, we can commit terrible atrocities. To ourselves, to the planet, to other species. There is no limit to our cruelty. I’m not trying to downplay or trivialize that. Bad acts should be punished, and they should not be emulated or perpetuated.
But we can only be as evil as we are good.
“The sweetest dreams of freedom are dreamt in the cruelest of prisons”.
We can agree to disagree then. But my extra thoughts are, if you take an evolutionary argument, we only do things that are beneficial for ourselves/species.
We’re an inherently selfish species from a biological perspective, people aren’t just fundamentally altruistic. If evolution shaped our morals to encourage us to be nice to each other to benefit the whole species, why is it still such a struggle for people to be selfless?
Being altruistic/good natured/selfless is something that has to be fostered and you have to be intentional about. If you have to be intentional about being good, then that means your default state is being bad. It’s easy to be selfish and only do things that you want and only care about yourself, because that’s our nature as a species. I don’t agree that we just “are” and that we just “exist”, it just sounds like someone that doesn’t want to face the truth that mankind is really not that great a species. It’s just copium to me
I don’t have exact answers for this, but if you look at it as if Adam was indicative of all of mankind (which he was), you can see it less like people are condemned when theyre born but more like all people are inherently broken/flawed/sinners. Original sin was just the first example of it. If there were people out in the world who were objectively flawless and sinless I’d take a totally different stance, but mankind being broken and evil is just pretty consistent with history and with the bible
Christianity doesn’t exactly say it’s a grievous error to be born and that you’re condemned for it, it more says that you’re inherently broken but you can still be redeemed
“you’re inherently
brokengoing to hell because you were born but you can still be redeemed.”Fixed that for you. Christianity says the default for every soul is hell unless they are Christians. You don’t need to do anything to “earn” hell, that’s just the default setting.
Which is what I said.
The contrast though is that you don’t “earn” heaven either. Nothing makes a Christian and a non Christian so inherently different from each other that one fundamentally deserves heaven and the other hell. It’s saved by faith, not by works
And I take issue with you saying humans are broken/flawed/sinners by default. We are not. We simply are. Death gives life meaning. Atrocities give accomplishments meaning. “Evil” gives “Good” depth. Shadow defines light.
Yeah, we can commit terrible atrocities. To ourselves, to the planet, to other species. There is no limit to our cruelty. I’m not trying to downplay or trivialize that. Bad acts should be punished, and they should not be emulated or perpetuated.
But we can only be as evil as we are good.
“The sweetest dreams of freedom are dreamt in the cruelest of prisons”.
We can agree to disagree then. But my extra thoughts are, if you take an evolutionary argument, we only do things that are beneficial for ourselves/species.
We’re an inherently selfish species from a biological perspective, people aren’t just fundamentally altruistic. If evolution shaped our morals to encourage us to be nice to each other to benefit the whole species, why is it still such a struggle for people to be selfless?
Being altruistic/good natured/selfless is something that has to be fostered and you have to be intentional about. If you have to be intentional about being good, then that means your default state is being bad. It’s easy to be selfish and only do things that you want and only care about yourself, because that’s our nature as a species. I don’t agree that we just “are” and that we just “exist”, it just sounds like someone that doesn’t want to face the truth that mankind is really not that great a species. It’s just copium to me