A recently released Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) document titled “Domestic Terrorism Symbols Guide”* links common protest symbols to “terrorism” — another marker in a common theme of conflating militant protest for social justice with deadly terrorist violence within the United States. Groups like the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and the Brennan Center have raised warnings about such documents, citing inadequate protections for people’s constitutional rights.
Labelling Antifa as a terrorist group is basically admitting you are a fascist.
But anti fascist are fascist. we must lock them up and … \s
A group can be right and also be violent and extremist.
In this context they’re using “extremist” to mean “goes too far”.
Do they? It didn’t really seem like a value judgment to me.
But you can also be right and go to far. I don’t know if these groups do go to far, but nuclear annihilation for example would definitely be too far.
In that case they’d be right about just the problem, but not right in their entire position which includes a solution. Nobody who thinks we should nuke the world for anything is right.
Yes, they do.
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree as to what constitutes an obvious value judgement.
Not untrue, but antifa in general would cease to exist if fascists stopped coming to cities to menace people
I think there’s more nuance on the topic than you’re implying. While there’s no actual group called antifa, there are plenty of groups who oppose far right ideology (i.e. anti-fascist/antifa). Some of these groups have definitely become heavily armed and radicalized. I don’t support fascists, but I also don’t support radicalized zealots of any creed. Does that make me a fascist?
Yeah, actually, it kinda does.
So would you label “maga” as heavily armed and radicalised?
FTFY.
If you read the article, FBI labeled them too.
Sure, but I was curious whether the person I was replying to at least applied their standard across the board
I would be and I am, but I am not the person you are replying too. I believe even Nazi should have right to not to be beaten by a mob who call themselves “antifa”. Not suggesting that all antifa is such a mob.
Maybe with another organization you would have a point, but in the case of the FBI which has been known to aid and recruit fascists I don’t see this holding any water.
I think you’re thinking of the CIA.
Why? You think the FBI is (somehow) not serving the interests of a fundamentally white supremacist empire?
No, it makes you a person that probably won’t do squat to stop fascists.
It’s no coincidence wthat it’s only radicals that show up to physically confront fascists while the so-called “enlightened centrists” do nothing but heckle from the sidelines.
Yup. Or when anyone tries to do anything they will just come up with reasons why it’s wrong.
The media was quick to forget that they were literally trying to criminalize the wearing of masks before Covid hit because “Antifa Scary.”
So, yeah.
They are dropping the “good people on both sides” banger
As someone who’s been in several combat zones with the US military (honorably discharged 10 years ago), I can safely say I do not want my backyard turning into one. So pardon me while I wait for all peaceful options to be utterly exhausted before getting gun-happy and LARPing with others in fatigues while shouting for armed resistance.
If MAGAs or any other “militia” begins marching down my street, I’ll sure as shit meet it with force. But until then or an outright coup, I’ll continue advocating for peace
it seems the less energic options are already exhausted.
i dont want to be on the receiving end of state violence either but i dont think things can change by simply voting or protesting anymore.
this doesnt necessarily mean violence but we must change our strategy.
Downvoted because veteran
Downvoted because poor
Please shut up.
While I’d prefer peaceful resolutions to our problems, I fully understand why left leaning groups are becoming more radicalized. There is little compromise with the theocrats who want to eliminate or subjugate various minority and underrepresented groups within our society, continually hand more and more power to corporations, wholeheartedly believe the end of days is coming once Israel fully takes control of the holy land, and will scream “Second Amendment” and “Crisis Actors” every time kids are killed in school shootings. They violently stormed the US Capitol many of whole had intent to kill Senators and Representatives.
There is no compromise or peaceful resolution with people who want to hurt you or worse because their pastor said you’re a demonic sinner who must be cleansed from the earth.
Yeah those fuckers want to kill me for even existing, if i armed up it would be entirely to defend myself.
So your saying your extremely interested in staying alive? Gotcha!
I would greatly prefer to stay alive, yes. Still haven’t loaded up on weapons, though.
Radicals aren’t the same as extremists. And that is an important distinction to understand when dealing with politics. Being armed and willing to defend yourself isn’t an act of extremism. Being violent towards violent fascists isn’t extremism. It’s community defense. When you break down politics into it’s most base element, it’s about the distribution of the legitimate use of violence. Understanding and working within that framework isn’t extremism, it’s politics 101. Philosophy Tube has a good video on this in relation to fascism. Skip to ~20 mins in for the violence bit.
yes that makes you a fascist.
i think that you should be quiet and postulate that garbage to the dump.
https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremists-kill-329-since-1994-antifa-killed-none-2020-7
Well, you know *gestures vaguely at all the far-right stuff going on in the United States"
The problem is that letting fascist types run rampant and hoping they’ll just go away historically doesn’t tend to work out well.
I live in Portland. Up until 2021 or so fascists, proud boys, Patriot prayer, etc. All ran rampant in cahoots with local law enforcement. People were menaced, paintballed, attacked and all that. It sucked. The sniveling mayor begged those groups not to come in (they’re never local) and act like that. Shockingly they did anyway.
Portland fought back
It was unpleasant, but it worked. Those assholes haven’t tried to have their gatherings here in a couple of years. Self described antifa groups are still on edge but have largely diminished in activity. You don’t see antifa rallies designed to menace going out to the surrounding small towns where those assholes largely come from. Unless you’re sporting some obviously fash flair pretty much everyone gets left alone in town.
Both sides are not the same
That was a good read, tyvm
For most of Lemmy, yes, that makes you a fascist.
I wonder if my profile pic puts me on that list.
-FBI, in the document referenced.
Yes, I read what the FBI said. But there have been a million reasons not to 100% trust law enforcement. I’ll take what they say with a grain of salt.
Isn’t their whole thing arguing that terrorist tactics are justified, helpful and necessary? Every time I see antifa supporters talking online that’s the thrust of the discussion. What is the case for them not being a terrorist group?
Oooh… fascists are afraid of scawy antifa - that must mean antifa must be terrorists.
Good job demonstrating how much moral weight you ascribe to the feelings of fascists, Clyde.
I’m not sure what any of this has to do with what I said. I’m not talking about moral weight or feelings, and I’m not saying ‘terrorist’ pejoratively. It’s a word, it means something. I don’t think its meaning strictly depends on who is in the right, it’s more about goals and methods. What do you think it means?
Who has antifa (supposedly) “terrorized,” Clyde?
Only if you’re dumb enough to just assume whatever a group titles themselves actually reflects their beliefs.
Do you think the Nazis were socialist? How about the Soviets?
You can call yourself whatever you want, if your group is anti fascist and acts in an authoritarian manner, then you’re the same thing with a different economic outlook.
Yes but antifa is anti fascist.
Calling antifa a terrorist organization because in another universe an organization sharing the name could be bad is like banning ice cream because it could be made out of maggots.
Damn, it’s like you didn’t even understand literally my entire comment.
Capitalist authoritarianism and socialist/communist authoritarianism are both the same thing, using terms like fascism to pretend it’s different is the problem.
If you use authoritarian means to get your way you are only different from fascism economically. If you aren’t authoritarian then you’re not going to support any group regardless of what they refer to themselves as or what they consider the opposition to be called.
An anarchist group is authoritarian? What are you smoking.
If a group tries to violently overthrow a system then yes they’re authoritarian. Shouldn’t be that hard to piece together.
Last time I checked anarchy involves the destruction of all systems of economics and government because people aren’t smart enough to realize that’s a fucking delusionally stupid idea.
This comedy sketch illustrates with literally just one example how ridiculous the idea of not having some kind of meta structure to handle human needs is.