the dems seem as helpless to run this geriatric conservative as the gop are to prevent an actual fascist dictator wannabe from successfully running for office.
how can both these massive parties suck so fucking hard
I never said this nor do I believe it. But engaging in doomscrolling and screaming into the void is not going to do much so I’m looking for ideas. Yes they are all way too old, there’s no denying that. The question is: now what?
They way to fix things is voting reform. But it can’t be just any reform.
We have to ditch Ordinal voting systems. Every single one of them leads to some degree of two party dominance, with voters having to prioritize strategy over their own needs, because not doing so means they will be actively punished.
Cardinal systems are the only way to escape. Strategic voting becomes less necessary and less impactful.
My current favorite system is STAR. It takes all the great ideas of the best cardinal voting system (Score) and adds in an automatic runoff that greatly reduces the impact of clone candidate attacks.
Approval voting guarantees the election of greatest possible consensus winners, when it ask voters “which alternatives do you consent to?”
Approval would vastly improve things, but has some drawbacks. Score is like Approval, but a bit more so, and then STAR takes Score and adds to it again to be an even better system.
The systems above all break two party dominance, or rather they make it impossible to enforce two party dominance. Ordinal systems on the other hand, all fall victim to Arrow’s theorem, and thus reinforce two-party dominance.
So unanimous consensus? As in, something akin to expecting the tooth fairy to come wipe for you? There’s no such system.
The closest thing is called Approval, and even with that system, there will be people who go away unhappy. Just far fewer of them than under any other voting system,
Perfect consensus only happen if there are dozens or even hundreds of people running for office, and only then if the voters have perfect knowledge of every candidate.
Because the electorate is doing little to nothing at the local scale to change voting methodology. Until that happens in a broad fashion, the two parties will continue to be a problem.
Edit: you can downvote all you want, it doesn’t change reality.
(This gets even more embarrassing when you realize that while the two groups are about the same size of the electorate, the elderly are less likely to vote Democratic, so as a share of potential Democratic voters the 65+ is beating the brakes off the under 30s.)
I couldn’t believe people using the South Carolina primary as the reason Biden should be the candidate. Since when do we let red states decide who the Democratic candidate should be?
South Carolina is generally seen to matter to Dems as it’s a pretty decent cross section of the Democratic coalition as well as folks they need to woo in competitive states (Colorado, the midwest nowadays, Georgia, North Carolina etc.)
The idea wasn’t that Biden would carry South Carolina for the Dems but that a candidate who wins there has the demographic support crucial to the Democratic route to the presidency.
For Biden in particular, it was seen as proof that despite being whiter than the driven snow, he could still motivate Black voters (and honestly, that kind of worked out, Georgia was won in large part because Biden racked up absurd totals among Black voters in Clayton, Fulton and DeKalb) while still appealing to more moderate, working class white voters to win back the rust belt states Clinton lost in 2016.
We obviously don’t know how things would have gone with another candidate but the demographic success that Biden enjoyed in S.C was pretty much the success that kept trump out of office this term.
The Democrats are generally a fairly ineffective ally on good days. The Republicans are an effective enemy every day. It’s not an equivocation to say those are both crappy options.
indeed. what we really need to do is political action outside of just voting, because voting for genocide joe or donald “hitler” trump isn’t gonna work very well
the dems seem as helpless to run this geriatric conservative as the gop are to prevent an actual fascist dictator wannabe from successfully running for office.
how can both these massive parties suck so fucking hard
And you are proposing what?
A no holds barred Yu-Gi-Oh match. Winner becomes president, loser cleans the white house bathrooms for the next 4 years.
Will there be some kid competing while possessed by an ancient pharoah?
I believe you’re under the mistaken impression that u/originalucifer is actually running one or both of these parties.
I never said this nor do I believe it. But engaging in doomscrolling and screaming into the void is not going to do much so I’m looking for ideas. Yes they are all way too old, there’s no denying that. The question is: now what?
i dont… i kinda think were all fucked. the only action possible here is to just keep voting lesser evil.
i used to hope, but that runs out after the first few decades
They way to fix things is voting reform. But it can’t be just any reform.
We have to ditch Ordinal voting systems. Every single one of them leads to some degree of two party dominance, with voters having to prioritize strategy over their own needs, because not doing so means they will be actively punished.
Cardinal systems are the only way to escape. Strategic voting becomes less necessary and less impactful.
My current favorite system is STAR. It takes all the great ideas of the best cardinal voting system (Score) and adds in an automatic runoff that greatly reduces the impact of clone candidate attacks.
the only voting system i endorse is consent-and-consensus
Do you mean something like Approval?
https://electowiki.org/wiki/Greatest_possible_consensus_winner
Approval would vastly improve things, but has some drawbacks. Score is like Approval, but a bit more so, and then STAR takes Score and adds to it again to be an even better system.
The systems above all break two party dominance, or rather they make it impossible to enforce two party dominance. Ordinal systems on the other hand, all fall victim to Arrow’s theorem, and thus reinforce two-party dominance.
no, i mean total consensus.
So unanimous consensus? As in, something akin to expecting the tooth fairy to come wipe for you? There’s no such system.
The closest thing is called Approval, and even with that system, there will be people who go away unhappy. Just far fewer of them than under any other voting system,
Perfect consensus only happen if there are dozens or even hundreds of people running for office, and only then if the voters have perfect knowledge of every candidate.
lots of groups practice consensus.
Because the electorate is doing little to nothing at the local scale to change voting methodology. Until that happens in a broad fashion, the two parties will continue to be a problem.
Edit: you can downvote all you want, it doesn’t change reality.
Because voting in the primaries seems anathema to the young progressives who want to change.
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These are the same people telling us Demcoracy is on the line
They voted in the early 2016 primaries too. And the same thing happened.
That’s a comforting story but completely unsupported by reality. Look at the exit polls from whatever state you like. The under 30 crowd gets outvoted by 2-1, sometimes a 3-1 margin!
(This gets even more embarrassing when you realize that while the two groups are about the same size of the electorate, the elderly are less likely to vote Democratic, so as a share of potential Democratic voters the 65+ is beating the brakes off the under 30s.)
Also, young Democrats aren’t uniformly progressive.
“Buh… buh… Biden won South Carolina!”
Yeah… and how did that work out?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_South_Carolina
Trump - 1,385,103, 55.11%
Biden - 1,091,541, 43.43%
I couldn’t believe people using the South Carolina primary as the reason Biden should be the candidate. Since when do we let red states decide who the Democratic candidate should be?
South Carolina is generally seen to matter to Dems as it’s a pretty decent cross section of the Democratic coalition as well as folks they need to woo in competitive states (Colorado, the midwest nowadays, Georgia, North Carolina etc.)
The idea wasn’t that Biden would carry South Carolina for the Dems but that a candidate who wins there has the demographic support crucial to the Democratic route to the presidency.
For Biden in particular, it was seen as proof that despite being whiter than the driven snow, he could still motivate Black voters (and honestly, that kind of worked out, Georgia was won in large part because Biden racked up absurd totals among Black voters in Clayton, Fulton and DeKalb) while still appealing to more moderate, working class white voters to win back the rust belt states Clinton lost in 2016.
We obviously don’t know how things would have gone with another candidate but the demographic success that Biden enjoyed in S.C was pretty much the success that kept trump out of office this term.
deleted by creator
I’m glad I’m a progressive that votes in the primary. I plan to vote in more progressives myself.
Thank you! Please keep doing it, and if possible, asking your friends to!
bOtH SIdeS
uhhh no.
“both sides” is pretending both suffer from the same issue… i have clearly not made that case
uhhh yes.
“both sides” is presenting them both as equally bad… you have clearly made that case
ha, again no. i clearly identified one side as the obvious choice. but keep tryin’… im sure youll find something. i believe in you!
I don’t. It’s an obvious distinction.
The Democrats are generally a fairly ineffective ally on good days. The Republicans are an effective enemy every day. It’s not an equivocation to say those are both crappy options.
indeed. what we really need to do is political action outside of just voting, because voting for genocide joe or donald “hitler” trump isn’t gonna work very well