OPINION | Cryptocurrency mining could provide electricity demand when prices would otherwise dip to zero or negative, helping renewable energy sources remain pr
Tell me you know nothing about the current state of power storage technology without telling me you know nothing about the state of power storage technology.
This “tell me you … without telling me …” phrase often comes out of know-it-alls who at the same time as putting down others’ knowledge; come across as smug experts who have nothing better to say than to trot out this phrase.
I’m fully aware grid-scale storage has its challenges, but something as simple as heating water in a large boiler using excess capacity is more useful than mining crypto. Literally any other use is more useful to humanity than crypto.
Furthermore, practically giving that excess power to useless crypto farms will discourage investment in grid-storage which is something we desperately need.
Edit: After looking at your profile history, I’m banning/blocking you on my instance. So if you reply and I don’t, it’s both because I don’t care and won’t see the response anyway.
We don’t have to make everything about profit, if a company can afford to operate and pay their employees a living wage they’re a success. They don’t need to make tons of extra money on top of that
They don’t need to make tons of extra money on top of that
Surplus can go into research, innovation, growing the business, etc. But I agree, they don’t NEED to do anything, they should be free to run their business however they want.
Edit: After looking at your profile history, I’m banning/blocking you on my instance. So if you reply and I don’t, it’s bot because I don’t care and won’t see the response anyway.
That’s fine, it’s enough if others can see how willfully ignorant you are.
I think you need to update your thinkinghttps://octopus.energy/press/believe-it-or-watt-octopus-energy-customers-provide-108mw-of-grid-flexibility-in-first-saving-session-equivalent-of-a-gas-power-station/ - this is from a year ago, things have got bigger since then with more customers making cash through using their solar batteries in forced charge/discharge mode.
They can just invest in grid batteries and other storage options themselves. This is way more profitable that giving the electricity nearly for free to crypto-gamblers.
Especially because in practice the massive cost of compute means that while low cost power is nice, it is always more economically sound from the miners prospective to run 24/7 to get the best return on investment. Indeed if you only ran your expensive data center for the few hours a day where solar production can even meet demand than you would never break even.
All of this means that miners in practice have to demand all that power 24/7, and thusly demand either more storage or more fossil production than would otherwise be necessary for the grid. As such crypto mining is not incentivizing a move to renewables but forestalling it.
If nothing else hydrogen is pitifully easy to produce from power, and current non-fossil hydrogen production is nowhere near enough to fulfill current demand, let alone what we’ll need in the next decades. Better yet, because the machinery needed to make hydrogen is so cheap compared to the electricity necessary, it actually makes financial sense to only run them when there is spare renewable capacity as compared to constantly.
Especially because in practice the massive cost of compute means that while low cost power is nice, it is always more economically sound from the miners prospective to run 24/7 to get the best return on investment.
If you wanted a market solution, you could push wholesale power pricing onto miners so the cost potentially becomes too expensive to mine at times there isn’t renewable energy. Not that I think power should be wasted on crypto mining in any case.
Yeah, I’ve been wondering if instead of batteries homes could have their own electrolysis + fuel cell setup. Which one would be able to store more energy for a certain footprint?
Probably not, while hydrogen production is simple enough by industrial standards, in practice a small hydrogen plant is still the size of a shipping container thanks to the need to reach cryogenic temperatures for decent density and like nearly all very complex industrial kit requires expert maintenance. It also has to deal with practical limitations on round trip efficiency and such that make it hard to scale down to the size where it would be useful for a home or small business.
By contrast LFP or sodium ion batteries and inverters have no moving parts or seals to lubricate and replace or else the building explodes, no real maintenance needs, are far more energy dense, and offer more burst capacity than a fuel cell can.
While it may be viable for grid scale storage, though given most practical proposals involve combustion turbines and get half the energy out you put in I’m skeptical they can compete with more efficient methods like pumped hydro, batteries, and long distance transmission, at least for home use I can’t see hydrogen being practical anytime soon.
The real value in green hydrogen is for industrial uses like fertilizer production, ship fuel, and such, not in consumer applications.
Crypto assholes, always in search of the next bag-holder so they can funnel more wealth without having to do real work. And of course any wealth held in common is always a tempting target.
Ugh, that wins this month’s competition for the worst take on the whole internet.
Oh no, electricity is too cheap; let’s waste it on nearly the worst possible thing to keep prices up /s
If only we had some, or even multiple, ways to store that excess for later and use it for something useful. /s
Tell me you know nothing about the current state of power storage technology without telling me you know nothing about the state of power storage technology.
This “tell me you … without telling me …” phrase often comes out of know-it-alls who at the same time as putting down others’ knowledge; come across as smug experts who have nothing better to say than to trot out this phrase.
Lol, you’re defending this:
Indeed, we don’t have those ways yet. Not deployed sufficiently anyway.
I’m fully aware grid-scale storage has its challenges, but something as simple as heating water in a large boiler using excess capacity is more useful than mining crypto. Literally any other use is more useful to humanity than crypto.
Furthermore, practically giving that excess power to useless crypto farms will discourage investment in grid-storage which is something we desperately need.
Edit: After looking at your profile history, I’m banning/blocking you on my instance. So if you reply and I don’t, it’s both because I don’t care and won’t see the response anyway.
I guess you don’t understand economics. Solar power providers should boil water instead of being profitable!
We don’t have to make everything about profit, if a company can afford to operate and pay their employees a living wage they’re a success. They don’t need to make tons of extra money on top of that
Surplus can go into research, innovation, growing the business, etc. But I agree, they don’t NEED to do anything, they should be free to run their business however they want.
Yeas, when prices go negative in my country Home Assistant absolutely does switch on my electric water heater. It save me substantial amounts.
That’s fine, it’s enough if others can see how willfully ignorant you are.
Put your fingers in your ears if you want.
I’m not the one who ignores reality.
I think you need to update your thinkinghttps://octopus.energy/press/believe-it-or-watt-octopus-energy-customers-provide-108mw-of-grid-flexibility-in-first-saving-session-equivalent-of-a-gas-power-station/ - this is from a year ago, things have got bigger since then with more customers making cash through using their solar batteries in forced charge/discharge mode.
I guess you don’t understand economics. Let solar power providers go bankrupt because there’s no buyer for their output.
They can just invest in grid batteries and other storage options themselves. This is way more profitable that giving the electricity nearly for free to crypto-gamblers.
Cool, I agree. Let energy providers decide how to monetize their product in the most profitable way.
Especially because in practice the massive cost of compute means that while low cost power is nice, it is always more economically sound from the miners prospective to run 24/7 to get the best return on investment. Indeed if you only ran your expensive data center for the few hours a day where solar production can even meet demand than you would never break even.
All of this means that miners in practice have to demand all that power 24/7, and thusly demand either more storage or more fossil production than would otherwise be necessary for the grid. As such crypto mining is not incentivizing a move to renewables but forestalling it.
If nothing else hydrogen is pitifully easy to produce from power, and current non-fossil hydrogen production is nowhere near enough to fulfill current demand, let alone what we’ll need in the next decades. Better yet, because the machinery needed to make hydrogen is so cheap compared to the electricity necessary, it actually makes financial sense to only run them when there is spare renewable capacity as compared to constantly.
If you wanted a market solution, you could push wholesale power pricing onto miners so the cost potentially becomes too expensive to mine at times there isn’t renewable energy. Not that I think power should be wasted on crypto mining in any case.
Yeah, I’ve been wondering if instead of batteries homes could have their own electrolysis + fuel cell setup. Which one would be able to store more energy for a certain footprint?
Probably not, while hydrogen production is simple enough by industrial standards, in practice a small hydrogen plant is still the size of a shipping container thanks to the need to reach cryogenic temperatures for decent density and like nearly all very complex industrial kit requires expert maintenance. It also has to deal with practical limitations on round trip efficiency and such that make it hard to scale down to the size where it would be useful for a home or small business.
By contrast LFP or sodium ion batteries and inverters have no moving parts or seals to lubricate and replace or else the building explodes, no real maintenance needs, are far more energy dense, and offer more burst capacity than a fuel cell can.
While it may be viable for grid scale storage, though given most practical proposals involve combustion turbines and get half the energy out you put in I’m skeptical they can compete with more efficient methods like pumped hydro, batteries, and long distance transmission, at least for home use I can’t see hydrogen being practical anytime soon.
The real value in green hydrogen is for industrial uses like fertilizer production, ship fuel, and such, not in consumer applications.
Crypto assholes, always in search of the next bag-holder so they can funnel more wealth without having to do real work. And of course any wealth held in common is always a tempting target.