• Nougat
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    -12 years ago

    That’s why I claim ownership of every hotel room I’ve ever stayed in and every car I’ve ever rented.

      • Nougat
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        02 years ago

        I’m not comparing renting to owning, I’m pointing out that they are different things, and each has an appropriate place. The image in the OP makes a blanket statement implying that all payment equals permanent ownership.

        It is certainly true that there are things people pay for that they should have more rights of ownership over, but don’t (even, and maybe especially, if they are led to believe they have ownership rights that they do not).

        But even ownership of, for example, my car, does not extend to me the right to reverse engineer my car and build another identical one, and then sell that.

        When you enter into a contract, where you pay for a product or service, there are a wide variety of rights you do or don’t receive, depending on the agreement.

        Edit: Since your employer pays you for your labor, they own you, right?

          • Nougat
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            12 years ago

            Let me restate the thing I was originally responding to:

            Piracy can’t be stealing if paying for it isn’t owning.

            This statement is so childishly oversimplified that it’s just wrong. It might make people “feel better” about piracy (in particular, their own piracy actions), but it does so based on a plainly invalid argument. That’s what I have been trying to point out.

            Are there problems with the way media sales are handled? Absolutely. When Amazon is able to pull your purchases back out of your access that they made consumers feel that they would have unlimited and perpetual access to (even if the very fine print said otherwise), that’s a huge problem. If a particular piece of media just isn’t available anywhere except for via streaming (or, frankly, anywhere at all outside of piracy), that’s also a problem.

            OP’s post doesn’t address any of that. The suggestion is that “If I have paid for something, I (edit: should) have full, unlimited, and perpetual ownership rights to it.” That’s just not true; the landscape of commerce is far more complicated than that, and it’s a mistake to just join into a weird hug box about it.

    • riquisimo
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      12 years ago

      When you rent a hotel room or car you’re preventing others from using that hotel room or car.

  • @[email protected]
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    -22 years ago

    I have this one truck the banks don’t want you to know about!

    You know what, it’s only 530 here but you’ve really made a good effort at most ignorant post of the day award.

  • @[email protected]
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    2 years ago

    Do we really need excuses for pirating media?

    I pirate movies because I think digital access to them is overpriced, goes to the copyright holder instead of the creators, it’s convenient and most importantly because I can.

    I can’t pirate going to the cinema, nor can I afford to build my own, therefore I gladly pay to have a seat and enjoy a movie there.

    Edit: I thought this may be relevant to the movies example I gave. I don’t think movie studios, giving nothing back to society after massive profits are the ones we should debate the morals of stealing with.

  • narshee
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    2 years ago

    This is inaccurate. You are not buying it (the media), you are buying the right to stream it (as long as the seller provides the media as a stream). You don’t “buy” a movie unless you are paying for it’s ownership, which would be millions of dollars. For physical releases you buy the disk and the right to watch it under certain conditions (DRM). And you generally don’t have a right be able to “buy” or have access to all media.

    But all that doesn’t automaticly make it amoral. this comment is gonna be downvoted to hell

    edit: There are probably gonna be more responces, so this will address everything else I have to say. What I wrote is how things are legally, more or less. I don’t like that either. I do consider piracy stealing (under current laws) and morally right. Stealing is just not that great term for digital stuff. Please don’t try to (uselessly) sway me and don’t infight

    • @[email protected]
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      12 years ago

      this meme is a criticism of that. it shouldn’t be like that. if I buy a chair, I own the chair. I can then choose to sit on it, burn it, or give it to my neighbor, whatever. if I buy a movie, it’s suddenly not like that – but not because of some inherent quality that would make it impossible, but only because they say it is like that. but they have one weakness: it’s only like that if we actually stick to those rules. they’re all arbitrary anyway! we can therefore treat a bought movie just as it should be: a physical copy that we actually own. we can then decide to watch it, to lend it to our neighbor, to play it for everybody to see on the street, to cut it and remix it and do something new with it. will they come and claim we’ve “pirated” their media? yes of course, but this is nonsensical, dead law, that has to be broken again and again by just – ignoring it, and making it not so. if I buy a movie, I do own the movie, and the company that says otherwise can get fucked. that’s what this is about.

    • @[email protected]
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      22 years ago

      For physical releases you buy the disk and the right to watch it under certain conditions (DRM).

      I’d like to point out German law (maybe this expands to EU and other countries) with traditional media.

      Traditionally you bought movies and music on physical discs. You had a guaranteed right to be able to sell it to other people, as well as make personal copies of it for private use/backups.

      DRM has always tried to oppose this right. And obviously, in the last decade(s) a lot went into service-oriented streaming and temporary access instead of owning even on a partial or theoretical level.

    • @[email protected]
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      22 years ago

      That’s kind of their point, because we are not in fact buying the media the argument is that piracy has some moral element. Put another way there is no option to own it outside of piracy.

    • @[email protected]
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      12 years ago

      If I’ve bought the right to play the game, what’s “the game” that I’m entitled to if they decide to take away what makes it the thing I agreed to have access to?

    • @[email protected]
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      02 years ago

      This is some cope shit. We’re stealing, it’s not morally correct for most of us. No one cares enough to stop though, that includes me.

        • @[email protected]
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          -12 years ago
          1. wrong. 2) you’re not paying for the right to use something, that’s theft. You can cope all you want but it won’t change what it really is.
  • 𝔄𝔩𝔩𝔞𝔫
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    852 years ago

    I’m amused at these statements these ‘wannabe’ pirates make to justify piracy. A smart person would pirate quietly without letting the world know or justifying it.

    I know why I do it & I don’t want some validation, internet points, 2 minutes of fame to sound / look cool.

    • @[email protected]
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      82 years ago

      “A smart person would pirate quietly without letting the world know” While posting “I do it & I don’t want some validation…”

      • @[email protected]
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        32 years ago

        As much fun as setting up a torrent box is, being an argumentative asshole is even better.

      • @[email protected]
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        2 years ago

        Hypocrisy doesn’t make them incorrect. If you’re going to be a pedant get better at it.

    • quirzle
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      192 years ago

      I don’t want some validation, internet points, 2 minutes of fame to sound / look cool.

      No, you just need everyone to know you don’t care about sounding/looking cool to sound/look cool. Totally different.

      • @[email protected]
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        22 years ago

        Your wrong. It’s what Jesus did, when the baker and fisherman couldn’t meet market demand.

      • @[email protected]
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        222 years ago

        Theres some truth to this, but a lot of people do use this as a shield against the general cultural acceptance that piracy is stealing or otherwise morally underhanded. I do it, but I don’t have any illusion I’m one of the activists. I just get indignant and refuse to pay someone for content or entertainment who I think is damaging to the medium or predatory in general. I feel like if I really wanted to make a statement, I just wouldn’t consume their work at all – but life is short and I want to have my cake and eat it too.

        • @[email protected]
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          It’s possible to do both, I consume plenty of pirated media simply because it’s unavailable due to pathetic capitalist imposed digital distribution limitations and lack of equitable paid access.

          I also consume other pirated media because I wouldn’t spend my resources for access because I don’t yet know the value of the content and won’t pay just for an opportunity to be disappointed, been there enough times to have learned that lesson. I’m happy to spend my time to find out your media sucks, but not my money, because that’s also my time with the addition that I’ve put actual effort into converting it into fungible assets.

          I also deliberately pirate media that I would pay for and do understand the value of, both because I can’t always afford to purchase said product from a company making billions of dollars in exploitative corporate profits and because I have no interest in caring about that over my own personal satisfaction in life.

          • @[email protected]
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            02 years ago

            Wouldn’t it achieve more to boycott things instead? If you won’t even give up watching a tv show, you aren’t an activist you are just complaining on the internet.

    • Goob
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      02 years ago

      I think some still feel some level of guilt about it and naturally, whether consciously or subconsciously, rationalize it with ideas like this. I guess the progression from that is posting about it to show that “yes I pirate, but I’m not a bad person because rationalization”.

      • Uriel-238
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        12 years ago

        Pirating is like church sins, less about avoiding causing harm and more about preserving hierarchy and tradition, even though abuses and theft by intellectual property holders cause way more harm and economic cost than infringement, by multiple orders of magnitude.

    • @[email protected]
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      22 years ago

      They are screaming because they rather pay for convenience, but that is not how it works.

      • @[email protected]
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        4 months ago

        Yeah. And, in fairness, as a non-pirate, I read along here for tips and tricks to get a non-shit streaming experience out of my home hosted hardware.

        If I could still pay for a non-shit streaming experience, I would just do that.

  • @[email protected]
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    2 years ago

    Until we live in a world where people have equal access to information and essential technology piracy is a moral imperative.

    Should something which costs a few hours worth of work in the developed word cost three weeks worth of work in a less developed country, just to make a publishing company worth tens or hundreds of millions of dollars a few extra bucks? Of course not!

    Every other argument is a moot point to me. If I hadn’t pirated Photoshop and other software when I was a poor kid I wouldn’t have the six figure career I have today. The ultrarich steal from us every day in more ways than I can count. Maybe when they start being held accountable I will start caring about their bottom line.

  • @[email protected]
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    12 years ago

    Unsure if anyone can clarify. But my understanding that simply downloading a watching isn’t an issue.

    Selling illegally copied content is what can cause real legal issues.

    I’m uncertain of any cases of anyone getting in trouble for simply watching copied content.

    Example… 1st user pirates movies or videos and uploads them to YouTube or any streaming company.

    2nd User then streams or downloads them to watch them offline. I’ve yet to see the 2nd user in this scenario face legal consequences.

    Vs

    2nd User then streams or downloads content and makes money off it. Here I see the 2nd user have legal issues.

    Again I’m just a regular guy going based on regular guy logic.

    • @[email protected]
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      Downloading and watching is a crime. One night be able to say they didn’t know what they were downloading but likely the file name and site or torrent is a good clue that’s bullshit.

      Your probably discussing chance of getting caught. You likely will see a DMCA complaint or something like that to your ISP at worse for downloading but enough of these might get your service terminated (some ISP don’t care.)

      Sharing the files and usually sharing a lot of files publicly or semi publicly will get you more attention and that will get the media companies more likely to take you down as a distributor.

      VPN and smart browsing habits will reduce a lot of this risk though.

      Think of downloading is one star in GTA. They will chase you if they are you. Uploading is two stars when they start shooting at you. Profiting of it is like three stars and that’s when they get more aggressive. You can get busted at one star but it’s just very unlikely.

    • Digester
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      12 years ago

      Copyright infringement laws vary but even though simply downloading copyrighted material is against policies, it’s hard to enforce and most copyright holders don’t always find grounds for a lawsuit or it’s straight up not worth pursuing. You downloading a movie off a website is the same as a friend of yours sharing the same movie with you on a USB stick.

      Actions against unauthorized distribution of copyrighted materials (especially if it’s for profit) on the other hand are much more easily enforceable.

  • @[email protected]
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    82 years ago

    I think this logic is silly.

    Employers don’t own you, so witholding wages for services you provided isn’t stealing. Getting a haircut and not paying isn’t stealing.

    I think the better justification is: rights holders make it a pain in the arse to access content affordably, so fuck you, just going to steal it.

    • @[email protected]
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      62 years ago

      You’re only partly right. You example services. Of course it is not possible to own services. Piracy is only applicable to products. The point of the Twitter guy is, that companies intentionally stop selling their software etc. as products to sell you the same thing as a service, so that you cannot own it.

      • XenGi
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        2 years ago

        Not only that. Remember when Sony said that you don’t own the PS4 you bought for several hundred bucks but just purchased the right to use it as intended so you’re not allowed to tinker with it and for example install another operating system or figure out how their security works.

        That’s what is meant by buying is not owning anymore.

        I could go on about cars with subscriptions for heated seats that are already installed but not turned on etc.

  • @[email protected]
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    162 years ago

    Here I am wondering why there is still a downvote button in the YouTube comments… it does nothing!

    • @[email protected]
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      32 years ago

      The downvotes are still counted, just not displayed. You can re-enable it via browser extensions.

      • @[email protected]
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        32 years ago

        Pretty sure those extensions all use some sort of estimate methodology, the dislikes aren’t available via any apis or anything

          • @[email protected]
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            2 years ago

            I’ve never used one myself but I’ve heard talk of various ones either A) taking the public (real) like number and extrapolating the dislikes based on an old like/dislike ratio available for the video from before the dislike removal (doesn’t work on new videos) or B) the extension includes a feature where the user can like/dislike the video within the extension and then the dislike number is extrapolated using the public (real) like number and the extension’s private like/dislike ratio. In either case the number is not connected to the “real” dislike count that YouTube would have access to internally

        • @[email protected]
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          22 years ago

          some sort of estimate methodology

          Hey GPT4 watch this video and tell me what its ratio of likes to dislikes would be

    • @[email protected]
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      42 years ago

      Actually it’s worse than nothing. Youtube promotes comments based on engagement, so while only an upvote increases the tally, voting at all still makes it more visible.

    • @[email protected]
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      92 years ago

      The same reason that a lot of crosswalks have fake buttons. So you feel like you have control.

          • @[email protected]
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            2 years ago

            true, it definitely depends where you live. If you’re in the US then it’s definitely a case of most don’t work, because most elevators at this point have been made after 1990, but if you live somewhere else then it can definitely be a case of some, or even none

            but that said there definitely are functioning crosswalk buttons that work so being pedantic about some, most, etc, is irrelevant because as long as there are any that dont work its relevant to the topic

  • @[email protected]
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    12 years ago

    If a service costs money, and you take that service for free without permission it is stealing. If I rent a car I don’t own it. Is it not stealing to hijack a rental car for a few hours?

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You steal because it is easier or cheaper. Thats it.

    • Raven FellBlade
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      12 years ago

      Here’s my example: I subscribed to Paramount Plus explicitly for Star Trek content. The week I subscribed, they pulled all of the non-Abrams films. So I got to watching other stuff. Eventually, they brought all of the films back. Cool, right?

      So I finally get around to Prodigy, a show made for Paramount Plus. Two episodes in, and it vanishes. No announcements or warnings that that show was just going to disappear. It’s gone. Because “it wasn’t popular enough”. A show that only existed on that one platform was pulled off of that platform with absolutely no other legal way to view it. Content that I specifically signed up for that platform to see, and now I can’t… legally. Yo ho, yo ho, me hardies.

    • Saik0
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      12 years ago

      If I rent a car I don’t own it. Is it not stealing to hijack a rental car for a few hours?

      Not a great hypothetical. Copying files would mean that in your hypothetical… I see the red civic your rental service is providing… Look at it real hard, poof another one into existence and drive away in it.

  • mal099
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    -12 years ago

    I would steal this argument, but if it can be reposted here for free, then I don’t think anybody really owns it. 🤔