Hi, do you think lemmy would be as popular as Reddit ? I mean, many subreddits have much more posts compared to communities on lemmy… sometimes I scroll through Reddit sub top of month and see no end. At lemmy mostly I see 10 posts monthly… I do like concept of moving to lemmy, but it might make no sense if people’s are no active here and tbh I see the trend of disappearing activity
Yes.
I don’t think Lemmy will reach or overtake Reddit. That’s a good thing in my opinion, because massive platforms come with massive moderation problems that aren’t so easy to tackle for decentralised networks. We’ve seen that when someone posted kiddie porn and several servers went down to scrub the filth from their systems.
If anything, Lemmy already has a pretty high amount of troll communities, thankfully mostly contained within their own servers, which enables separation through defederation (speaking of defederation, I’d love to have an option to block servers on the user level).
Instance blocking is coming in 0.19 apparently.
I’ve had luck blocking communities and instances on lemmy connect. Little more labor intensive, but can get rid of all that goddamm furry porn lol
Gonna check out Connect, thank you :)
If you see 10 posts monthly, you’re probably just subscribed to very inactive communities. Personally I don’t really see the need for Lemmy to become as big as reddit though. When you get hundreds of posts a minute, individual voices get pretty much drowned out. If we can sustain a smaller, but less toxic, community than reddit, I think that’s preferrable. By which I don’t mean that there isn’t room for growth still, there definitely is, especially for some of the smaller, more specialized communities.
Honestly, I never fail to be astounded how promptly I have responses. I’d almost describe it as legendary. Very satisfied with what we’re able to accomplish with our much smaller user base
I think it’s simply because there’s less white noise trahing over everything so more proper posts are visible and as there’s less toxicity people are more confident to comment on Lemmy.
Long may it continue.
We’re always watching.
Our numbers are relatively small, but there are a disproportionate number of internet fanatics. I thought I was terminally online but I have to say I’ve been thoroughly outclassed in that department by some of my fellow Lemmings.
It’s good but it’s also something we need to keep in mind as we grow and try to recruit users that are less digitally minded.
God bless em, doe
Let’s hope not.
In a way I’m hoping not; I’m hoping kbin and other similar fediverse link aggregators also get a healthy portion of the pie.
The discussions on Reddit also were so cliche, and low-effort comments were rising to the top (chain threads). It has gotten worse since.
I’m also hoping discussions are more honest here, where facts and science is used, whereas on Reddit, my biggest issue was it got to the point, that evidence wasn’t important in a discussion (but I’ve already noticed the same in some Lemmy communities. Literally had a discussion with someone recently whose argument revolved around insulting everyone they disagreed with, and they had all the insulting buzzwords to support their argument)
Thats actually the beauty of the ability to defederate from crappy communities here on Lemmy too, we can avoid toxic servers, and we can produce high quality discussion.
I think ultimately though, we don’t have to be as popular. Quality, not quantity is important.
That being said though, anyone who moved to Reddit from Digg, knows how quickly things can change. I suspect popularity here is ultimately growing though. But not hopefully at the expense of quality. If Truth Social gets shut down, unfortunately, I suspect that will lead to growth of lemmy, but things will turn to crap :(
If someone does fire up an alt-right friendly instance, it can exist in a vacuum. It doesnt have to be federated.
Actually, there was one a month ago that got defederated because its users were assholes.
Yeah I’m on Beehaw, so a lot have been blocked. My concern would be if they choose to just use the normal servers. Last thing we need is a bunch of people running around turning Lemmy into an echo chamber. But, I have no issue if they want their own server
I assume some will say they don’t want it to. I hope it does so more people are no longer giving money to giant social media companies, or being tracked by them.
It’s not going to be as popular while it’s hard to browse and post in different communities.
If I’m browsing through the app, Voyager in my case, I can read and reply to anything that’s been federated to my instance. If I send myself a link to read later though, I might only be able to read it. Sent links open in the browser instead of the app, and that doesn’t let me comment on different instances.
On top of that, accessibility settings don’t carry over. Different instances in the browser are treated like different websites. I have trouble reading dark mode sites, so I set my home instance to light mode. Browsing to a different instance might switch it back to dark, and not let me change it without creating an account and logging in. That really puts me off wanting to stick around.
Why do you browse to other instances? Apart from channels on defederated instances you can subscribe to all channels on your main instance.
Does Lemmy need artificial ‘all’ channels that include all channels of an instance? Then there would be no need to directly visit other instances.
If there’s a post with information I want to save, I email it to myself, same for FOSS posts where I want to try the software on the PC.
It might just be that I get a notification while I’m on the PC and want to answer. This post is on lemmy.ml, so if I opened it on the computer while I’m logged in to dbzer0, I wouldn’t be able to type this reply.
As the others wrote, you should be able to reply.
Additionally, I would like to remind you of the star. You can mark posts and comments and find them in your profile.
Thanks, I always forget about the star. I’m so used to just sending myself links that I forget that there are other ways sometimes :)
There is also just a dbzer0 link to this post (https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/5239822) that you should be able to send to yourself. I can’t imagine Voyager wouldn’t let you access that.
Sorry, yes, Voyager lets me read and reply to everything. It’s when I try to open a link on my PC that I get the problem. I opened this thread from my replies, and get the dbzer0 link that you posted rather than the original lemmy.ml link, and I can reply on the PC. I’ve got https://programming.dev/c/learn_programming open in another tab though, a link that I emailed myself to read on the PC, and it asks me to log in, even though I’m currently logged in to dbzer0.
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !learn_programming@programming.dev
That’s odd, I can reply now. The link from my replies is https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/5239822 though, rather than the original lemmy.ml link.
I’ve got https://programming.dev/c/learn_programming open in another tab, a link that I emailed myself to read on the computer, and that’s asking me to log in.
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !learn_programming@programming.dev
Not odd at all. You’re logged in on dbzer, you’re not on programming.dev, because they’re different servers. Your server fetches posts from other servers before you can comment on them.
No way it’ll become as popular as reddit but that isn’t a bad thing per se
Lemmy is currently suffering from the network effect.
People aren’t hanging out as much because there’s not a lot of content. Less content gets posted because there’s not a lot of people hanging out. Repeat ad infinitum.
What Lemmy needs is people that are brave enough to post in empty communities.
Also, it’s suffering from what programmers call premature optimization. Reddit has hundreds of thousands of subreddits breaking down topics into incredibly niche subtopics. It’s good, because the volume of posts is so high that talk about e.g. a particular indie game would get buried in a general videogames subreddit.
So, it seems like Lemmings want to copy that structure, and create a community for every tiny niche right away. But there aren’t enough of us. It’s like trying to start a nuclear chain reaction with your fuel all spread out. We’ll never reach critical mass that way.
Instead, we need communities for general topics, so people actual see and engage with posts. So, for example, instead of hoping that c/whatisthisthing will get going, post such questions in c/asklemmy. There’re not so many posts that it’ll bury other topics yet, but if requests to identify objects really start taking off, then branch off a new community. That’s how Usenet grew back in the day.
The core concept here is to get people talking to each other. That’s more important than rigid categorization. That comes later, at this stage it’s premature optimization.
(Also, for myself, I’d rather see Lemmy develop its own culture and communities, rather than try to be just a not-Rdddit Reddit.)
This is part of why I chose beehaw as my home
Probably not, but that’s OK. Reddit is optimizing to be popular, while Lemmy has the opportunity to optimize to be useful.
Reddit largely displaced independent web forums. It wasn’t originally designed to do that; it didn’t even have comments at first, but that’s its most useful niche. It’s not actively optimizing to be good at that though; it’s optimizing for a combination of getting more people to spend more time there and getting people to click on ads. The latter is probably best served by encouraging fast-paced low-value meme type content rather than deep discussions.
Perhaps oddly, or perhaps because my Reddit feed is more curated, I see the latter on Lemmy more than on Reddit. For those who care about Lemmy’s success, you have a role to play. Post in communities related to your interests, or start one if it doesn’t already exist.
I sure hope not
Biggest issue is that a lot of features are missing, it desperately needs better moderation tools, and onboarding needs to be so easy that you’re technically challenged grandma can figure it out.
If it solves those, then I do think it’s possible. But if it actually did, companies would come in and try to become popular instances and probably try to cannibalize it.
It should be clear already that the majority do not care about morals, but just want entertaining content regardless of how badly they’re being treated. Even if fedi became dominate, it can be replaced by centralized media just as quickly since they can simply innovate much faster and with way more funding. Lemmy is like two guys doing it full time, so compare that to Reddit’s employment userbase when you compare quality.
I mean, eventually? If lemmy keeps getting more robust and people keep creating quality content, then eventually lemmy would get mainstream. 8-10 years ago I was very surprised when I saw reddit on the news for a rare moment. Reddit is too mainstream now. Hope lemmy never gets to that stage.
As long as algoritmically driven centralized content pipelines remain popular, the Fediverse in general will not capture the mainstream.
Say what you will about Lemmy and Mastadon et al being “straightforward and easy to use”. I’m sure it is for you. But there’s a reason most mainstream platforms treat their users like absolute cretins: the majority of mainstream users are, and they both enjoy and expect being coddled and catered to by the platform.
The very notion of Lemmy being sharded into “instances” and what that means is so antithetical to the common preconceived notion of what a social media platform is to most people. “Oh, it’s not just all here in one place?” And yeah, federation greases the wheels a lot so no one even has to think about instances… until a community you like is suddenly rendered inaccessible via defederation.
Also, content discovery on the Fediverse is admittedly kind of ass. Only those who both know what they want going in and where to look for what they want really get anything out of it. Most centralized social media platforms are relentless content recommendation engines because people don’t actuslly know what they want until they’ve had it brought to them. An algorithm that at least attempts to adapt to what you want to see more of is a key part of that. Lemmy does not have this (nor should it).
All that said, the fact that Fediverse platforms like Lemmy filter “common people” in these ways is, from what I can tell from here and elsewhere, a feature, not a bug. By being here at all, you prove a kind of baseline competency and a willingness to put in effort to learn the system that sets you at the forefront of most social media users. Most of us like it that way and are happy to keep growth of the community stunted in exchange for it.
Of course, all of the major platforms were in those shoes at one point. Will the Fediverse be the ship everyone leaps to next when the current platforms become so enshittified that even the main stream hates it? Maybe. But wherever the main stream goes, enshittification inevitably follows. The mainstream success of the Fediverse will synonomously be the death of the Fediverse as we know it. I for one would like some more time to hang out here before then.
I completely reject the notion that the mainstream success of the fediverse will be the death of the fediverse, what are your reasons for believing that?
Enshittification happens to monetized platforms because they tried to capture as many users as possible and then profit off of them, lemmy instances show no profit motive, and are volunteer run. There isn’t a route to enshittification with federation, because even if YOUR instance enshittifies, there’s still many others that will not, and due to federation, you won’t miss out on any content (as long as your instance doesn’t defed), so it won’t matter.
I also believe the issues you call out, aside from algorithmically driven content, will be solved eventually, as mod tools improve, there will be less of a need for defederation.
Even algorithmically driven content is partially solved by “hot” and “best” being improved, it’s just not personalized.
With the rate of lemmy development being as rapid as it is, these things will eventually be solved, but that takes a lot of time. Lemmy is still barely even beta.
Your points about the Fediverse being immune to enshittification feel like echoes of what we’d say about the world wide web twenty five or so years ago. The web itself is somewhat of a federated platform. Websites are analogous to instances. And while it would be dubious to claim that the entire web as an infrastructure has enshittified (though Google sure seems to be trying…), I think it’s not controversial at all to claim that the biggest players alive on the web have.
Yeah, you can always make your own scrappy little website. But you’ll be an island few to no users will want to visit and support if you’re competing with the other players. That, or you catch on and grow to the point where you yourself become the villain.
I see two roads for the Fediverse. Either it never grows past some filter and remains scrappy, or several large instances for the biggest platforms will dominate, sap up the market share of attention, and then use their weight to pressure how the protocol is maintained in the future, embrace-extend-extinguish style.
Also, “no profit motive”? Where critical masses of people gather, entrepeneurs surely follow. Someone will figure out a way to monetize hosting a Fediverse instance. Hell, Threads tried, sort of. That alone won’t immediately enshittify the whole Fediverse. But given enough time and growth, well, see above.
Yeah, you can always make your own scrappy little website. But you’ll be an island few to no users will want to visit and support if you’re competing with the other players. That, or you catch on and grow to the point where you yourself become the villain.
that’s exactly what federation prevents… you can be a scrappy little website and federate, and then you don’t need a massive infrastructure that would cause enshittification later. If you enshittify, people will just leave to other parts of the fediverse, the model causes enshittification to just be the failure of your website.
This is different from the world wide web in that the content is not partitioned. I can get the same lemmy experience if I go elsewhere, and not lose out on content. If there’s a major new privacy concern on my instance, i’m going to say fuck them and leave, and I’ll lose nothing.
Also, “no profit motive”? Where critical masses of people gather, entrepeneurs surely follow. Someone will figure out a way to monetize hosting a Fediverse instance. Hell, Threads tried, sort of. That alone won’t immediately enshittify the whole Fediverse. But given enough time and growth, well, see above.
Except they’ll inevitably fail aside from the people who legitimately don’t care, and quite frankly, if they don’t care, who does? Just go to another instance if that happens, you’ll lose nothing, and it won’t even be a problem.
Federation makes the part of enshittification where you box in your users not work. The reason facebook could enshittify is because if you left facebook, you’d lose ALL of facebook. They trapped people. You can’t trap people like that on the fediverse. The first step fails inevitably, you’ll just make everyone on your instance hate you and they’ll leave for literally any other instance and it will die.
The fediverse doesn’t work well with profit motive because of that, the only real way to profit without causing anybody who knows anything about what you’re doing maliciously to leave is… what exactly?
When leaving has no cost, there’s no way to force people to stay if you do something shitty.
Even if you keep some users, meh, they won’t keep me, and i’ll lose nothing by switching.