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Putin dick must be tasty
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How in the fuck is that relevant? Dipshits always think they’ve “got me” with this stupid shit. You don’t.
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Look at that. A homophobic fascist.
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implying that is a bad thing.
There’s your projection. Having Putin’s dick in your mouth is a bad thing, I don’t give a fuck what genitals you prefer. God I hate people
There is a “peace organization” here in Sweden, Svenska Freds, that are hard core pacifists. No matter what - pacifists. Their reasoning is like children. War is bad, everybody should be friends, the end. Reality should conform to this simple principle.
In the early days of the invasion, their loud public stance was that Sweden should not support Ukraine with military equipment. Ukraine was just as bad as Russia for defending themselves with weapons when they should use reason and diplomacy.
Then they got all weepy in the media when people called them useful idiots for Russia.
I seem to remember a certain Jew that was a pacifist and advocated “turning the other cheek.” What a chump. /s
That same jew also violently threw merchants out of a temple. People are complicated.
Then faked a suicide by cop. Seriously, some people… I can’t even. /s
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I was trying to show this poster the hypocrisy of their comment. Jesus was a pacifist, therefore we should be too.
If you believe the Bible, then he was literally God. Zelensky isn’t that.
Have you seen his comedy show? He’s close enough… /s
This reminds me of that cunt Caitlin Johnstone saying the simple solution in Ukraine was detente. As if that is an option when you’re defending against the entire removal of your culture, history, heritage, and people.
There’s this codepink in u.s. thats like this organization too, except only think remarkable about them is when their website was flooded with signatures from trolls that said things like hating african americans, praising zelensky or putin AND hitler in same sentence and using putin’s credentials as if it were a regular signature.
Source?
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This guy would help the Russians if they invaded his country. Just vile.
I love how you turn pacifism around to “help the Russians” basically making me the villain while you advocate the killing of innocents and the destruction of cities. What a fucking hateful shit.
I advocate the defense of people and cities. You advocate their surrender. You would trade anything for peace, especially justice. You would rather have a negative peace than accept that the world is not as simple as you would like it to be, and there are some enemies who are simply not interested in negotiation. You are what we call a “useful idiot.”
Where is the justice for the dead? Where? Where the fuck is the justice for the innocents who have had their lives turned upside down? The ones who would still be alive if aggression had not been the solution?
You are a hateful, war-mongering, inhuman monster.
Where is the justice for the dead? Where? Where the fuck is the justice for the innocents who have had their lives turned upside down? The ones who would still be alive if aggression had not been the solution?
Those are some very good questions to ask the aggressor, Russia.
What justice is there in rolling over and saying, “no, we don’t have a right to self-determination in any way, please take anything you want, Russia!” If push came to shove you would be a collaborator, and aider and abetter of war crimes to save your own skin, and that cognitive dissonance makes you so uncomfortable that you put on this humanitarian act in order to maintain a moral high ground that does not exist. It is not virtuous to allow others to kill you, dominate you, and steal from you. It is monstrous to imply that Russia’s right to delusions of empire trump Ukraine’s right to determine their country’s affairs, and even more monstrous to use the death of innocents as a shield for your craven delusions that everything would be fine if people just gave the naked aggressors everything they want.
You really think that the world is so black and white that it’s either “kill all foreigners” or “bow down and join our beloved oppressors”?
Seriously, you shouldn’t be able to have an opinion. Go back to first grade and try learning how life works again.
Here, let me bring some light into your understanding of the matter.
Imagine, and I want you to really visualize this, a large man has a visible gun on his belt. He demands that you strip nude and give him everything you have. There is no path you can run towards, he’s blocking the only exit and, again, has a gun. It just so happens that you also have a gun, and unlike his, yours is already drawn. What do you do?
Oh look, it’s hateful people imagining these fake no-win situations to justify their bloodlust. Grow up. Life is more complicated than your manipulative little fantasies.
How funny, it seems you’re dodging the very simple question. Almost like you’re devoid of intellectual honesty.
It’s not a “simple question”, it’s a manipulative question by a fucking violent sociopath describing an impossible, this-or-that situation that will never exist and I’m fucking calling you out on it.
Talk about having no intellectual honesty. Look, you’ve lost. Get over it. People like me – pacifists who want people to continue living, who want peace, no violence, no hatred – have won. You are a relic of a long-past age of hatred and bullshit. Evolve or be silent.
So the solution is that the one side that already has a bunch of guns, gets to kill as many people on the other side, and we must not help the other side defend themselves?
Always give the aggressor everything they want and let them kill as many civilians as they need to.
Sure.
temporarily get some of what they want while things are worked out
Some of what they want = to own all of Ukraine, and for Ukrainians to not exist as a culture, let alone a nation.
There’s no temporary about it. There’s no “some of what they want” about it. Negotiations have been tried time and time again. Ceasefires have been tried, but guess what, Russia just bombarded the civilian evacuation corridors when they were negotiated because the goal is to kill as many Ukrainians as possible.
Putin is not rational, this is an ego war. I take it you were never bullied in school. You might not know what it’s like when someone’s main goal in life is to make yours hell. You can just lay on the ground and play dead, that won’t stop them from kicking you. There’s no talking your way out of it unless you yourself are at least as strong as the bully. This is what Russia is. A schoolyard bully. Any type of negotiated peace short of total capitulation is going to be nothing more than a way to catch Ukraine with its’ pants down and kill more Ukrainians and grab more territory. The only way Russia will stop killing innocent people is if they either run out of resources, or Putin himself gets deposed.
Revisionist warmonger history. Russia was ready to peacefully take over Ukrane/parts of Ukrane until Ukrane went all aggressive murder all Russians on them. Sure, again, yes, 100%, Russia isn’t in the right here. Let’s not think I’m on Russia’s side here. I AM NOT. AT ALL. But the fact that you are going full murder boner is proof that you don’t care about people’s lives and you are willing to fucking lie about it.
Nothing quite like peacefully rolling tanks over the the border and killing the border guards, eh?
Nothing like revisionist history that ignores the fact that Ukraine was the first actual aggressor and Russia just wanted them to give over their land. Not for Russia here, they’re 100% in the wrong, but land isn’t worth fucktons of human lives unless you’re a war-mongering hateful gun-toting conservative shit like you.
WW2 happened because of retards like you.
Oh, you mean the war America escalated by taking sides in the second Sino-Japanese war and choking Japan to the point where they had to take a stance of aggression toward us to be able to get essential supplies by ship, and we decided to lie and paint Japan as an evil, aggressive, horrible enemy and nuke them twice even though they were ready to negotiate for peace both fucking times? That war?
y i k e s
Man what a dogshit take lol
Lie and paint japan as a an evil, aggressive, horrible enemy? If anything allied propaganda was below the mark regarding just how evil the Japanese were. Nanjing? Manilla? Shanghai? Unit 731?
What a fucking idiot!
The amount of brainwashing to tell the narrative of USA GOOD EVERYONE ELSE BAD has made speaking with you impossible. Break out of your fucking shitty, horrible programming and join the rest of the adults in a struggle to find peace in our time, or just be silent and let us do it.
Oh most enlightened one, ye who stands upon the highest of moral ground, please share with us your illuminated opinion of how the Ukraine should have responded? Or for that matter, any enemy who wishes to take your land and kill your people.
Clearly you are the most learned among us, and have solved the puzzle of how to overcome a violent enemy without resorting to violence, so please I beg of you oh sage one to teach us your great wisdom so that we may be as ethically correct as you.
EDIT
Aww I missed their rage response, I am guessing they had no better response than “let the violent party take whatever they want”? Yeah cause that’s a super great plan, and definitely doesn’t incentivize more violence.
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Good Lawd, check your blood pressure, you look worrying with all these caps and bolds
At least I have blood unlike all the dead innocents in Ukraine.
So if your country was being invaded you’d just lie down and take it? Perhaps even say thank you? You’re naive to think that talking will magically solve things when you’re against an enemy who clearly doesn’t have the same moral standards as you. They’re attempting to take what they want with force, they’ve already demonstrated that they don’t care for niceties like negotiation.
Imagine trying to talk it out with a mugger. They don’t care what you want to talk about. They want your money.
Every downvote is a vote for death, hatred, and suffering of innocents
This makes you sound like those moronic Facebook posts that say things like “1 like = 1 prayer, ignore = you hate puppies”. It’s not a good look.
Would I rather be alive and in a position to negotiate my freedom than dead? Gee, what a hard que–oh wait.
Seriously, I don’t get this. I don’t understand how people have become so hateful and spiteful and blood-thirsty. It’s Fox News, isn’t it? Right-wing, jingoistic, hyper-patriotic, “I can’t understand the second amendment because I think only half of it applies” bullshit.
Go find a heart. Compassion. Love. Prayer does nothing. War kills. Love, compassion, understanding, patience, and peace is what moves the world.
Would I rather be alive and in a position to negotiate my freedom than dead?
I already gave you the mugger analogy, so one of three things is happening.
- You didn’t read what I said.
- You don’t understand what I said.
- You are purposefully ignoring what I said.
In any of these cases, it appears you are not debating in good faith. As such, I will no longer engage. Goodbye.
No, it’s you who do not understand because your brain is wired with violence and hatred and is unable to see past any of that to any possibility of peace. You are a relic of an ancient time of hatred and bullshit and you need to either rewire your brain and evolve, or stay silent and let people who want peace on this fucking planet be the adults we are.
Please go to Ukraine and test this routine on Russian soldiers, it will go really well for you, like that ad of Kendall Jenner solving racism with a Pepsi
Please learn current history and know Ukraine started this aggression. Moron.
Absolutely hate those sorts of people. I’m a pacifist too, but not at the cost of my own life.
Pacifism. Pacifism is objectively pro-Fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side you automatically help that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, ‘he that is not with me is against me’. The idea that you can somehow remain aloof from and superior to the struggle, while living on food which British sailors have to risk their lives to bring you, is a bourgeois illusion bred of money and security. Mr Savage remarks that ‘according to this type of reasoning, a German or Japanese pacifist would be “objectively pro-British”.’ But of course he would be! That is why pacifist activities are not permitted in those countries (in both of them the penalty is, or can be, beheading) while both the Germans and the Japanese do all they can to encourage the spread of pacifism in British and American territories. The Germans even run a spurious ‘freedom’ station which serves out pacifist propaganda indistinguishable from that of the P.P.U. They would stimulate pacifism in Russia as well if they could, but in that case they have tougher babies to deal with. In so far as it takes effect at all, pacifist propaganda can only be effective against those countries where a certain amount of freedom of speech is still permitted; in other words it is helpful to totalitarianism.
exert from Orwell on Pacifism and the war
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did china shoot children recently?
I dont get it.
There’s a lot of context clues, do we need to start making remedial memes for the slow kids?
the context clue being…? ukraine is at war with china now?
You know who Ukraine is at war with don’t you? Obviously the flag is representing them. Surprised I needed to spell it out, it was already drawn in crayons for you.
russian flag is not red. it hasnt been for 3 decades, i assume you are aware of it?
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if they meant to represent russia why use the chinese flag?
are you the kind of people this piece of propaganda aimed for?
Because nobody cares. Slava Ukraini. Fuck Russia.
I mean, yes, definitely they have. But they were probably Uyghurs or something so sympathizers don’t mind.
i think its meant to be a ussr flag
russia is not close to being the ussr since the early 90s though
He didn’t say they were.
He said the Russian flag is apparently based on the Soviet flag.
Have you seen the Russian Federation flag?
Hint: it’d be hard to get them confused.
they are completely different flags
Yes…
That’s the point.
USSR was 15 countries including Ukraine.
It’s weird how people across the political spectrum think they’re still the USSR
TBF, it’s not like modern Russia particularly objects to the idea
it’s not like modern Russia particularly objects to the idea
Here is correction for you: it’s not like Putin objects to the image of empire.
But he don’t want everything else that came with USSR like good schools, good hospitals, good wages for teachers and doctors, housing for everyone. Because money spent on anything above is money not spent on his yacht.
It very much does.
I think people tend to confuse Russian irredentism with wanting to bring back communism when all they really want is the USSR’s borders. Which were, mind you, largely the Russian Empire’s borders.
If the Russian oligarchy is going to force a return to their roots I feel like they’d just bring back the monarchy.
There certainly is a socialist movement in Russia that wouldn’t mind returning to a socialist state but there are very few who actually want to return to a totalitarian one, and if it’s not totalitarian it’s not really what people mean by the USSR, is it?
I was talking more about wanting the prestige back
Only devil’s advocate in war I will ever advocate for is “what happens to the populace when their government eventually gets collapsed”
Russian government is corrupt as hell and the military is fucked, dont get me wrong, but if we get a repeat of Brazil/Korea/etc. where a ‘west-friendly’ dictator is installed, I would rather them be under their current gov
Whether a Western-backed dictator would be better or worse is hard to say. All dictators are, of course, terrible, but it’s difficult to discern just how terrible each one is before they come to power. In any case, we can and should demand better of our governments than that. We may be deeply flawed democracies, but we are still democracies, and must stand in support of our ideals, not dictators, no matter how West-friendly. Fuck, at least some of the time.
Yes, how could we know? If only there were some sort of track record we could look at
Yeah, sure. Go ahead. Compare American-backed dictators and non-American-backed dictators.
Not a lot of difference.
there actually is, the amount of civilians killed, because unlike the soviets, the Americans kept a leash of theirs.
like you want to compare dictators? while bad, Pinochet killed fewer people than pol-pot
the Americans kept a leash of theirs.
Not really.
like you want to compare dictators? while bad, Pinochet killed fewer people than pol-pot
Pol Pot was supported by China, not the Sovs. What’s more, Pol Pot was hardly an ‘average’ outcome.
From history, the dictators are never better than the alternative. USA owned West Germany hiring ex-Nazi elites to run the gov, Pinochet refining torture methods for the CIA, all of South Korea’s dictators post-Korean War
I meant some dictators are better than others, not that some dictators are better than less autocratic forms of government.
As a brazilian being screwed by our corrupt communist president but hate the US imperialism as well, we should just nuke Brazil ☺️
another “patriot”, go lick Bolsonaro’s balls
Lmao mf thinks I like Bolsonaro
I understand, so both sides are bad and you don’t know what communism is. Another useful idiot.
Why so you think that, people that uses insults instead of arguments?
I’m so glad you asked that, first of all you don’t know what communism is, that’s a fact.
You have called Lula a communist means that you do not align yourself with the left. Then you say you don’t like Bolsonaro, which means you’re a regretful cattle or align yourself with the prostitutes of the middle. You excluded yourself from both sides, and what’s left is the center, which in Brazil are a bunch of corrupt politicians who only legislate for their own cause or money.
The fact that you called Lula a communist also shows that you consume (and accept) the propaganda publicized by coup groups.
The current government is far from ideal, but it is much worse because of the opposition that is mainly formed by Bolsonaro’s party, and whose only concern is trying to cover up the crimes committed in the past administration, or disrupting the current administration making absurd amendments to all projects or creating ones with the sole purpose to generate problems.
Lemmy is becoming reddit lmao
I meant Pinochet not Lula, Lula is chill
Pinochet is Chile. I don’t remember who the Brazilian dictator was.
Getúlio Vargas? Idk about Chile, but at least in Brazil, in most places, Getúlio is considered a national hero
I think they meant the later dictatorship spawned from the 1964 coup, the US-backed one.
Oh, the Regime Militar, oh yeah, that happened, but US didn’t really “intervene”, the dictators were really just american friendly most of the time
We didn’t end up intervening, but we were definitely in full support of their efforts. I guess this is really all semantics in the end.
Lula getting ignored at UN 💀
Learn what communism is lol
Or social democracy, which actually works
He is literally in the brazilian Worker’s Party, which unsurprisingly is a communist party, and also said “being called a communist is something to be proud of”. I am stating facts.
If I say I’m an Olympic Athlete I don’t suddenly become an Olympic Athlete.
People can say they’re communist all they want but I’ve never heard of a “””communist””” leader that wasn’t just a fascist in disguise.
Ok
I personaly don’t give rat’s arse what happens to russians when their government collapses. They brought it onto themselves, both by being “apolitical about it all” or by supporting and cheering the government all the way back ten years ago when it was just “little green men” and “polite people”.
And how about the millions who weren’t okay with Putin, but were forced into silence because one person can’t fight governmental tyranny? Like, I don’t support Russia’s invasion and I think Putin needs to pay, but do millions of Russians who had no say whatsoever (and were brainwashed for decades through expertly crafted propaganda) deserve to starve alongside their children for the actions of a monster?
If you say ‘yes’, then tell me if all Americans deserve to suffer the consequence of Trump’s presidency when the majority didn’t even vote for the guy.
Yes, because none of them stood up against Putin.
Trump didn’t invade Mexico tho
What, you expected people to stand up against a tinpot dictator who would happily torture them and their families? Would you do that?
And Trump was literally about to take the final step towards killing democracy in America. He might not have invaded Mexico during his term, but he sure was setting up the environment where he could’ve gotten away with it and quashed any protest against it.
What, you expected people to stand up against a tinpot dictator who would happily torture them and their families? Would you do that?
yes. it’s a family tradition after all, sometimes there ARE things worth dying for.
And Trump was literally about to take the final step towards killing democracy in America. He might not have invaded Mexico during his term, but he sure was setting up the environment where he could’ve gotten away with it and quashed any protest against it.
most of the military was not on Trumps side, it at best would have sparked a civil war, and the trump-tards aren’t that great in number
It’s Russia. It will be a dictator or nothing, it is their culture and has been for centuries.
Yeah-yeah. All Russian are genetic slaves and should be sanctioned, cross border naked and only on foot, except those who have millions of stolen money in bank account are definetly not genetic slaves, but honorary citizens.
That’s not quite what I meant, but I understand how it could be taken that way. I’m just kind of sour because they had ridiculous strongman after ridiculous strongman in the Tsars, had a genuine worker’s revolt, and then squandered it on ridiculous strongman after ridiculous strongman, then that government folded only to be replaced by a ridiculous strongman. The Russian people deserve way better than that, but it sort of seems like they don’t feel like better is possible. I can sympathize, Americans are similar that way, and I think Americans will elect empty suit after empty suit, because American culture is superficial in the same way that Russian culture is fatalistic about power and corruption.
News flash that nobody knows: Nicholas II was not a strong man. He didnt even want the job, and his cousin Kaiser William had to teach him how to Czar.
Also, it was not a genuine worker’s revolt. WWI happened because the German and Russian parliaments declared war while Nich and William were trying to find ways to avoid it. They both thought they were double-crossed. Germany could not compete against the sheer number of bodies that Russia could send to the front, so they exiled Lenin to Russia to destabilize it with the intention of assassinating him afterwards and taking over. It did not go as planned, as Nicholas was glad to abdicate, thinking that one of the Eurpean royal family would allow he and his to retire in a countryside villa somewhere. That also did not go as planned.
News flash that nobody knows: Nicholas II was not a strong man. He didnt even want the job, and his cousin Kaiser William had to teach him how to Czar.
Okay, so everyone who is reading this but isn’t up on their early 20th century history knows - Nicholas II did not particularly want to be Tsar. But he considered it his duty and divine position to be an ‘unshakeable autocrat’ anyway who opposed democratic reforms at every turn. Nicholas had to have one of his close relatives threaten to shoot himself in the head with a revolver in front of Nicholas before Nicholas allowed the protesters their demands for a very defanged parliament in 1905.
Also, it was not a genuine worker’s revolt. WWI happened because the German and Russian parliaments declared war while Nich and William were trying to find ways to avoid it.
This is also hogwash. The February Revolution was a genuine worker’s revolt characterized by spontaneous mass strikes, riots, and refusal of orders by war-weary soldiers at the front once they heard of the unrest. WW1 was a tangled mess, but neither Kaiser Wilhelm nor Nicholas searched in earnest for solutions, because they thought the other parties would back down, or that it would be a short war. Neither, of course, was true. But they were genuinely friendly in their correspondence on account of the royal families of Europe being one somewhat inbred family tree, so some historical revisionists like to assume that they’re innocent.
Germany could not compete against the sheer number of bodies that Russia could send to the front, so they exiled Lenin to Russia to destabilize it with the intention of assassinating him afterwards and taking over.
Another inaccuracy. Germany didn’t have trouble with the ‘sheer number of bodies’ that Russia could send to the front. The Eastern Front in WW1 they were actually considerably successful in. It was simply a desire to refocus all of their forces, and Austro-Hungary’s, to other fronts by ending the war with Russia sooner. Lenin did not arrive in Russia until the February Revolution had already occurred.
It did not go as planned, as Nicholas was glad to abdicate, thinking that one of the Eurpean royal family would allow he and his to retire in a countryside villa somewhere. That also did not go as planned.
It was not a lack of offers from other royal families that condemned him, it was the fact that the workers soviets’ hated his fucking guts and would have killed him if the Provisional Government tried to ferry him out.
Apparently Robert K Massey was wrong on everything then.
Do Brazil and NK have West friendly leaders? First I’ve heard.
According to our last US president, yes.
Does it count if the last president wasn’t pro West and did everything a Russian asset would do?
North Korea is as it is BECAUSE of what the US did to South Korea. When your neighbor, previous countrymen get taken over by a foreign occupying force and you have no allies to protect you, you get weird and reclusive in self-defense
what are you talking about? North Korea is literally the Chinese created Buffer state, if you want to talk about legitimacy, the state of Korea before the China/Russia backed civil war (North Korea somehow had modern Russian MIGs, and most of their army spoke only Chinese) is what because south Korea.
North Korea is an isolationist because it is a despotic dictatorship.
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Take your concern trolling elsewhere.
Bullshit. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Just because Russia is worse, doesn’t give Ukraine a free pass.
comes into a thread about the literal genocide of Ukrainians happening, here and now
“Um, aktually, you need to understand the context from 80 years ago in order to understand that tone policing Ukrainians is just as important.”
No, it’s concern trolling. This is neither the time nor the place.
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WW2 and the Ukrainian Insurgent Army was in 2023. Okay. You have fun with that, buddy.
WW2 war criminal standing ovation and fascist salute were in 2023. Don’t read, just believe, you’ll get far in life.
Me: “Tone policing Ukrainians in the middle of a genocide is fucking vile.”
You: “Ah, he must be referring to the last link I posted about Canada, and not the other three about Ukraine and Ukrainian symbols!”
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Hey everyone, come point and laugh at this tanky using the only rhetoric tankies have. This dude is unironically pro Russia kidnapping children from Ukraine and most likely also pro Chinese genocide. What a piece of shit.
The children were ravenous demons! Foaming at the mouth!
Our hands were forced. We had to kidnap them from their families we killed and send them to residential schools.
Omg, (after we killed their parents with missiles) we found all these poor orphans, abandoned!
Nazi Satanist drug-addicts, no doubt. It was self-defense.
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According to the rules of this community, you need to prove that claim:
- Nazi Symbols on Ukraine’s Front Lines Highlight Thorny Issues of History: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/world/europe/nazi-symbols-ukraine.html
Rule 2: No misinformation
Don’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.
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It’s called “Azov Assault Brigade” now, expanded in February 2023:
- Azov Brigade: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade
Rule 2: No misinformation
Don’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.
What flag is that on the right
I think it’s a version of the USSR flag, with an X instead of the hammer and sickle.
Wasn’t Ukraine part of the USSR?
Yes, but USSR hasn’t existed for about 3 decades and when it stopped existing, the Soviet Republics were liberated.
So Ukraine and 14 other countries were liberated from… Whom?
Baseball bats should not just be used on nazionalists, but also on those who try to defend putin’s invasion with but but but NATO!!!
Are you suggesting violence?
Hopefully.
Fascists don’t understand anything else. Proof: HistoryI think NATO is a tool for capitalist imperialism and therefore fascist. Should we use violence against NATO?
My friend NATO was started by a literal nazi, it’s not fascist because it’s imperialist. It’s fascist because it’s fascist.
I guess I know what you’re trying to say, but not even remotely close to what fascism means.
I know it’s not fascism by definition, it is metaphorical. Capitalism decays into fascism.
Capitalism doesn’t inherently decay into anything, it does help those who would enact fascism tho, but that is a VERY different beast.
Is it though? ;/
You obviously cannot use your brain, otherwise you wouldn’t say such a stupid thing, but yes. If they were fascist then we should use violence to make them go away. Tiny problem. NATO is not that and you are an idiot for saying such a thing with seriousness.
Thanks for the joke and letting me answer it seriously.If NATO is supposed to be a defensive alliance, it should not operate outside of its own borders under any circumstances, yet it has done so multiple times in the past.
In theory it is an alliance of equals, but in practice it is an enforcer of the foreign policy of its most powerful member, the US. As with Russia in the USSR and the larger Warsaw Pact. If that wasn’t the case, the US would have no use for NATO and would just leave, which is what many European countries would want to avoid at all costs.
The way modern weapons work, defending from within your own borders just isn’t practical anymore. A simple example is those rockets constantly used for strikes in the middle east - often deployable from outside established borders.
The only true safeguard against those strikes is having a constant awareness of what’s going on - for instance, someone deploying thousands of soldiers right to the edge of their border without actually crossing.
Europeans don’t want America to leave NATO? Sure wouldn’t know that from talking to them.
you know that the whole Middle East thing wasn’t due to NATO?
Mhm. Sure buddy.
Great rebuke.
Don’t listen to me, maybe consider a think tanks opinion. >Source But yeah, I’m the idiot. /s
Yes you are. And i will leave it to the other people that have already told you why to continue. The mods here will probably delete this comment because I haven’t been nice to you :(((
I hope not. I respect the discourse despite the insults. Maybe try to see the world from a less Americanized lens.
You know things have gone bad when you’re relying on a libertarian think tank literally founded by Charles Koch (as in, the Koch Brothers) as your source
Maybe a Lebanese source then. Maybe Venezuelan? Maybe a Marxist perspective? Oh wait, you want the neoliberalist to tell you when NATO is fascist. Good luck with your wait.
Communists can’t be fascist, they have a thin veil of very conditional worker solidarity! They’re inherently good! Stalin was just misunderstood.
Ironically, the whole point of Leninism was that Russia wasn’t wealthy enough to be communist, and thus had to have state capitalism watched by a “vanguard party” (who are in theory supposed to keep the capital in check), so not even the Russians believed they did communism.
Nothing has ever been really tried, other people don’t exist they’re all projections of your mind.
Sometimes to reach peopl you have to speak to them in their own language
I don’t blame Ukraine for defending their home, but I do blame the US for pulling strings everywhere and causing tensions that lead to war. It’s something that has happened again and again, and no one really cares because it’s usually not a problem of the West.
causing tensions that lead to war.
To be fair with Ukraine it is Putin and his propaganda that caused tensions.
All considered it is Russia’s fault, but not only Russia’s. We’d be talking about a different history if the US weren’t so expansionist and threatening.
Expansionist? When was the last time the US tried to annex foreign territory?
Wrong choice of words. What I meant was fucking over the whole globe for their national interests.
Ok ill bite, how did the us pull strings
conveniently skipped:
- 2014 US-organized coup
- previous US “democracy support” investments ranging in billions
- Sevastopol naval base
- Zelensky threatening to go nuclear, NATO, and take back Crimea
- Putin going literally “wtf you guys doing” from all that weeks before invasion
There is no evidence to support that the US organised a coup in ukraine and the rest is a non issue.
tl;dw Fossil Fuels
Yeah I remember when that video came out
Yeah, remember when the US forced Russia to invade Crimea and prop up separatist republics in eastern Ukraine? It’s a shame we’re so set on causing tensions. /s
The /s is unnecessary. The date is November 21th, 2013.
Where’s your source that the US forced Russia to invade Ukraine?
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Oh no, don’t tell me you’re one of the “Euromaidan was a CIA plot” people
Is about Elon fucking up last month with starlink?
Don’t get Musky Billionaire involved please, he’s just puking out nonsense.
As is the protagonist in this comic. So it’s a fair assumption.
*raped, tortured, and shot
Wtf pugjesus… i though you were based… and now you are pulling this type of bullshit that the dumbass partisans idiots pull to shit on people that have a non extreme point of view that ends up not allining with theirs?
Cmon m8 we can do better than this, if anybody is arguing seriously that the invaders are as bad as the invaded, they are either dumb, tankies (mostly both), CCP/Russia shills, trolls or litteral children on a “comrade” face, (and therefore neither of these should be taken seriously) not centrist and neither people that are looking for the truth of the things argue that the victim here is the villian, and the ones that do are not doing it on good fate and are not looking for a middle point.
And the worst part is that there isnt really a middle point in that situation, the only one i could think of is that war is bad and colonialism is bad (cuz thats whats looks to me russia is trying to do here to Ukcraine) and even then those point at the fact that the main instigator here (Russia) is the bad guy.
Its like that other dumb post that was looking to shit on non extreme viewpoints trying to shit on centrism putting it between genocide and not genocide, like wtf one of those is a ridiculusly extreme point that cant have a middle ground, so the main point of that dumb post was to justify lashing against those that doesnt allign to either extreme stance by grouping them with the people they dont like, and with partisan shills it thends to be the other political party, even if one cant really form part of that party since one can be not an US citicen.
Not sorry for long text btw.
Do better.
they are either dumb, tankies (mostly both), CCP/Russia shills, trolls or litteral children on a “comrade” face,
Unfortunately this is a non trivial group, and they need to be reminded often that they are idiots. I’ve seen far too many “left wing” people take the position that Ukraine should just roll over and that it’s all someone else except for Russia’s fault.
They need to be made aware that they are taking a pro Russian imperialism position, and asked how they would feel if it was instead the US invading the Philippines because they wanted closer ties to China, or something along those lines.
War is undesirable, but ironically it’s necessary for having a positive peace. If people give into aggressive demands all the time because they’ll otherwise wage war, you still end up with peace, but it’s a negative peace. It’s servitude.
Russia can unilaterally end this war, and the world needs to keep putting pressure on them to do so.
The thing is that they do not take those reminders and go “Yeah i was wrong, im gonna change my believes” when they see this shit, they go “YEEE mOrE wEsTeRN pRouPAgAnDa hEil MeOW, whiNniE puu iS rASceisT nnhhhhiiiiieeeeeeeee (starts playing the USSR anthem)”.
And besides my critiscism was against the fact that centrism doesnt really looks to find a middle point between war and not war, it looks to find a naunced take on it or the one thats colser to the truth, and offc the more naunced take would be no war, but in this meme its kinda perversed into partisian thinking like the US culture war bs does, that if you not agree with every single thing my side says then you are a tankie, and i dont whana be a tankie, they are not based, but while i agree mostly with what your side says, somethimes they can say or do some things that i dont like and i whant to be able to disagree with them.
Now i dont really have any good example for this situation since Russia is clearly the bad guy in that one and the one thats comiting more war crimes if trying to colonise another country isnt enough of a war crime, the only thing i could think of is the videos of russian soldiers being killed by drones where in the comments are full of assholes rallying and yelling horrible things about the dead russian guy, and praiseing its dead. I mean, i like to watch fucked up videos like most people but like… rallying like that is just straight up wrong, the poor guy was probably some russian kid that got forcibly drafted into the army because he was caught smoking weed or something, it reminds me a lot of the 1984 book where they had like a “Hate hour” or something like that where they put a mob in front of a giant telescreen and put images of a enemy of the government (dont remember his name but he was pretty much Throtchsky) and rallied people against it and started shouting like an angry mob and as soon as it stoped everyone stoped.
Man, I’m not here saying “If you don’t support The People’s Party you are One Of Them”. I’m not trying to say that everyone who doesn’t support Fully Automated Gay Luxury Space Communism is a Reactionary Dog, or that there are no moderate positions which are valid. I’m criticizing the self-professed centrists and moderates who argue that ‘both sides’ are guilty in the war and for that reason, we shouldn’t be involved. You can say they’re dumb, and you might be right, but they exist in non-negligible numbers.
Bipartisan is working with both sides, I think you mean partisan, taking a side. Confused me for a moment.
Oh… ok true on the partisan stuff… im gonna change that.
And im glad to hear that your take is more nuanced than what i though before.
But the meme itself still gives me those partisian american culture war bs vibes that i described before, so thats why i got the wrong idea.
I give you the status of based while the metodology of the meme is not based unfurtunatelly.
🙏
More people should get used to the idea that being “partisan”, taking a side, is not in itself a horrible thing.
Not to compare all current political situations, but to just demonstrate a conflict with “sides”: Side A is a baby. They want to eat their lollipop. Side B is an escaped criminal who wants to drown the baby in acid. I will be partisan and say that I sincerely hope for all people to firmly take Side A, and offer not even half an allowance to Side B.
America has won some of these culture wars before, in positive ways; if you’ll remember what sort of things we supported/fought against about a hundred years ago.
Im gonna copy and modify a little of a comment i already made to answer yah m8:
The thing is that taking a centrist POV doesnt really looks to find a middle point between one extreme and the other, it looks to find a naunced take on it or the one thats colser to the truth, and offc the more naunced take would be no war (in the case of this meme but in the baby case it would be no killing baby), but in this meme its kinda perversed into partisian thinking like the US culture war bs does, that if you not agree with every single thing my side says then you are a tankie, and i dont whana be a tankie, they are not based, but while i agree mostly with what your side says, somethimes they can say or do some things that i dont like and i whant to be able to disagree with them.
Now i dont really have any good example for the war situation since Russia is clearly the bad guy in that one and the one thats comiting more war crimes if trying to colonise another country isnt enough of a war crime, the only thing i could think of is the videos of russian soldiers being killed by drones where in the comments are full of assholes rallying and yelling horrible things about the dead russian guy, and praiseing its dead. I mean, i like to watch fucked up videos like most people but like… rallying like that is just straight up wrong, the poor guy was probably some russian kid that got forcibly drafted into the army because he was caught smoking weed or something, it reminds me a lot of the 1984 book where they had like a “Hate hour” or something like that where they put a mob in front of a giant telescreen and put images of a enemy of the government (dont remember his name but he was pretty much Throtchsky) and rallied people against it and started shouting like an angry mob and as soon as it stoped everyone stoped.
And an example with the baby part, i might be stretching things to far, but being so young it really shouldnt be eating candy all day and i think it should be fed less candy and more healty food. Again im really steetching this but im trying to present an example about it.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone call Ukraine just as bad as Russia
At most I have seen nato skepticism or antiwar sentiment accused of being supportive of Russia or demonizing Ukraine, but the equivalence of Ukraine and Russia are both equally bad actors isn’t really a thing.
Yeah. There’s always internet comments that can be screenshotted over two years. I mean that really goes to show it is not a popular or prominent position that is held. It’s not a serious position.
Getting on with it though: it more importantly isn’t a position held or expressed by anyone in positions of power or policy over the war as far as I know. At least not that aligns with the meme or the general idea that Ukraine is somehow just as bad as Russia.
The pro Russia crowd supports Russia so even their stance don’t fall under this category of thinking Ukraine and Russia are indistinguishable bad.
You haven’t, but people here will swear up and down that they’ve seen it because they saw a post that didn’t scream SLAVA UKRAINI or whatever. It’s kinda like the OP image where they create a strawman and pretend that’s what the reality is.
Funny how your nonsense is proven as such by comments in this very thread saying what you claim doesn’t exist.
Welcome to ‘Murica.
I’ve seen GOP idiots in my local news comments try to somehow convince others that Ukraine is stealing money from “us” that could be used to rebuild after our fires, etc, and that they deserve whatever they get.
People are fucking morons.
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Oh the reason I stated there definitely, absolutely isn’t nearly as bad as others, not even in the same neighborhood, but it’s probably the most stupid reason I’ve seen because ‘Murica has to represent. Apparently any reason you can make up is good enough to equate Ukraine and Russia. It’s hard to believe they’re not on the payroll.
It’s incredible watching them suddenly become doves. Like it’s in America’s best interest to see peace in Ukraine, and Ukraine is the one that needs to roll over to make that happen. Somehow, Russia leaving is never mentioned.
I’m guessing you’ve never heard of Hexbear?
i lurk there sometimes
That is 100% what they want. Nobody is immune to propaganda and they know that, if they can get people to start looking there - even out of hatred - they can recruit into their echo chamber. That’s their goal.
is implying russians are still socialist soviets, and claiming the opposite side said things they havent not propaganda too? ive been watching this kind of thing for a while now.
ive been proto right wing before looking closer into politics and I held a similar opinion without realizing there isnt such a thing as a neutral news and spaces when it comes to this and the ones claiming to be neutral are lying even harder.
much better to understand the biases and motivations behind what you see on the political spectrum and form your own opinions accordingly.
“They say the most heinous things, trust me, but also don’t look there yourself because they’ll mind control you into committing satanic rituals and eating babies. Believe me!”
Sorry, my intention was not to say don’t look there, my goal was to warn that nobody is immune to propaganda and to be careful if you do look there. It’s very much a trap and it seems that you may have fallen into it, I’m sorry. I hope you find the help you need to get out.
I don’t even go to hexbear except when people like you shit your pants over it, just to see if anything has changed since the last time you people have shat your pants over it. Each time I go, I don’t see the horrors you claim are there. Hopefully you fools can get over your mass delusion someday.
K
Nope
Consider yourself lucky.
I have, unfortunately. People talking about “Donbass genocide” and the like, asserting Russia is anti-imperialist, eagerly gobbling up Russian propaganda like it was their last meal.
Go check out the Hexbear and Lemmygrad instances, then.
You can’t have been on lemmy for long then. Because tankies thinks Ukraine is bad and Russia is good, which is even worse (although both opinions stesms from the same Russian propaganda).
Ukraine is a very flawed country. It has a real problem with corruption, nationalism and treatment of minority language groups (not just Russians). Still a better country than Russia, and trying to move towards a liberal democracy which is also at least better. But people tend to ignore thier faults completely.
Go back and see the comments on this exact post and you will see several
Pretty shit example considering what Ukraine did to civilians during 2014 but good on you for picking a side!
“Civilians” in Crimea
U mean, like protecting their citizens from external aggression?
No I mean like militia gangs burning office workers alive during the coup and the air force bombing office buildings in the donbass
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Russia does love sending
militiassoldiers on “vacation” to go kill people.
