TL;DR
- The European Council has ended its adoption procedure for rules related to phones with replaceable batteries.
- By 2027, all phones released in the EU must have a battery the user can easily replace with no tools or expertise.
- The regulation intends to introduce a circular economy for batteries.
Do you think smartphone manufacturers will still make them water resistant?
It might be harder to pull that off without making the phone thicker in the process, but still possible.
Just need a tray you pull out of the side of the device that contains the battery with a gasket and a latch. Like a really big SIM or SD card tray.
The manufacturers can take the space needed from the battery making them even smaller and just blame regulators for the change while maintaining roughly the same phone without the battery for the rest of the world. At least that’s what I imagine they’ll do because corporations are always slimy like that.
They might just abandon the water resistance and blame the regulators, that’s what I’m afraid of.
Well some might. Then you are free to vote with wallet and move to the maker who still thinks water resistance and dust is good sell factor for phones. Market working like it’s supposed and so on. Within the guiding barriers market regulations.
I’m sure that it’s possible to do both, though it’d eat even more space for gaskets or whatever.
I don’t really care about thickness, though I would rather the thickness be used for a larger battery than for a replaceable battery.
Yup, and most regular users end up using phones for stuff which even a 4 or 5 year old phone would suffice. Except for the battery which keeps on degrading over the years.
I’m just a little cautious, because easily replaceable batteries will further dent phone sales in general, there could potentially be a marked increase in phone prices once this regulation comes into effect.
Of course people been asking for that for years and they never do. So that part of larger battery in exchange for having an enclosed system has sailed long ago. It’s as likely as headphone jacks coming back.
Well headphone jacks should come back. I have a headphone jack on my Motorola g73, and it was one of the reasons I got it.
Yeah, I would be happy if it did, but flagships have sailed away in that department and budget pixels too which are great devices for those who want graphene or Calyx. I’ve given up on them ever becoming mainstream offerings again.
they never do.
You can get cell phones with gargantuan batteries, but you’re going to be getting off-brand phones out of China.
https://www.techradar.com/features/weve-tested-the-5g-smartphone-with-the-worlds-largest-battery
Yes.
You had IP67 water resistant phones with removable batteries back in the day, no reason why that design can’t come back.
You had IP67 water resistant phones with removable batteries back in the day, no reason why that design can’t come back.
Galaxy S5 still have (IP67 iirc) water resistance with removable battery
It still is a thing like the Samsung Galaxy Xcover Pro (IP68).
FANTASTIC. I’m just disappointed that it’s as far away as 2027 and not 2024 or 2025 :(
Edit: Oh, I just read this part
By 2027, all phones released in the EU must have a battery the user can easily replace with no tools or expertise.
So…I’m sure us North Americans will still get screwed with nonreplaceable batteries :(
2027 is actually pretty early for such a dramatic change, and somewhere I heard that it’s all phones sold, if that’s the case (i.e. you can’t sell old models if they don’t have easily replaceable batteries) than that is a really early date for such a law.
Not really as a design change as drastic as user exchangeable batteries means phone companies would probably rather adopt a unified design (removable batteries) than a region based design
Well some GDPR implementations did make it across the pond for the sake of simplicity so I imagine this might go the same way.
In the case of GDPR it is not just for simplicity. It’s because companies that operate in the EU need to provide those protections to all EU citizens, even those across the pond. You cannot check if someone is an EU citizen so if you operate in the EU you effectively need to treat everyone like an EU citizen.
don’t underestimate the greed of capitalism (re: making two different devices for EU and NA markets)
Companies would need some time to redesign their products.
While this is great will they also make the manufacturer allow external storage up to 2tb?
God bless the EU.
Remember to vote to keep this up next June, my fellow Europeans
hungarian here, i’ll try my best but please keep on overpowering us when we inevitably fail
I mean…Hungary has it’s own problems (right-wing anti-equality government) https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/embassies-urge-hungarys-government-retract-discriminatory-lgbtq-laws-101273052
oh yeah, we know. the problem is, 80% of the country is a rural population and a lot of them just want to “own those libs in budapest” even if they fuck their own life up. that’s why the same right-wing party has stayed in government for 13 years now with no change on the horizon.
we tried last year. like really tried, even the left and the far right have made an alliance with one goal: topple this shitty party, everything else is secondary. it didn’t even make a dent.
at this point, i see no chance that our eu parliament reps won’t be from the same party either. i’ll vote against them for sure, but it’s just inevitable at this point.
as an American, bless the EU, they’re carrying America with stuff like GDPR
Vote in what exactly? I’m lost.
European Elections are on June 2024.
Thanks, it’ll actually be my first time voting on these elections.
Now we just need headphone jacks and SD cards and lineageos support and my dream phone will be mandated.
Your force open drivers would be really cool.
Not having SD card is real painful.
Between basic storage being so much larger than it used to be (the 4-8GB days were brutal) and USB-C flash drives that can plug into your charging port, I seldom miss them these days
Still sucks that they removed them as an option though
I’m not a fan of xiaomi (even though it’s my daily driver), but most of their phones fit your needs. In the past I used redmi note 4, note 9 pro and now note 10 pro and they’ve all been great.
Custom roms community really is something.
Had bad luck with China phones being open before, but when the time comes I’ll have to take a look.
I can get onboard with (micro) sd card slots. But honestly I’m fine with not having a headphone jack. I never used it anyway. And wireless earbuds are way more convenient anyway because you don’t have a wire tethering your phone to your ears.
Edit: I should add that GrapheneOS is way more privacy-oriented and secure than LineageOS.
My YouTube premium downloads are on my sd card, which works out nicely.
Xperia phones have headphone jacks and SD cards. Pretty sure you can install lineage on them as well.
I pretty much stopped using my phone for audio when they got rid of the headphone jack.
Wireless headphones still aren’t great and most are uncomfortable. It’s super annoying keeping them charged and they are so expensive when you consider how short their lifespan is.
I listen to certain YouTube videos to get to sleep and have for years and years. Wireless ear buds just aren’t in the cards for something like that.
I’m in a similar boat. The only time I do plug in headphones (via the usb port) is on nights I’m having a very hard time fall asleep. But I do that at the expense of being able to charge my phone 😔
Man, that sucks. One of the other things for me is that you can buy decent headphones for like seven bucks with a 3.5mm jack. Most USB headsets are going to be a lot more expensive.
Does your phone support qi charging? That could be a solution if it does.
Will this impact water proofing?
Not really. Expect in that obviously many of the exact current water resistant phone design can’t be used. Since those don’t have replaceable battery. However already at this very moment there is smart phones on the market with both replaceable battery and water resistance. Like Samsung Xcover6 pro . Not that it is the only one, but example from the major brands instead of the more niche rugged phone specialist brands. In fact in my experience in the rugged phone market replaceable battery is quite common (and thus apparently desired by customers) feature. I assume on the rugged phone user segment liking the ruggedness of “I can continue the lifespan with new battery” and even “Well I’m going to middle of no where wilderness, spare battery might not be stupid idea”.
In opposite to the hurdurhurdur can’t make water and dust resistant phone with battery covers. Yes we can. We figured this out by early 2000’s. Touch screens on the other side of the phone taking place from the old numeric T9 pad doesn’t change the design fundamentals of the back of the chassis. Rigid enough cover plate with rigid enough pressure applying latching combined with rubber seal designed and molded to seal the desired areas will do the job exactly 2027 as well as those did in 2002.
As said all it takes is a redesign job with the battery swapping idea being kept in mind from start on the chassis design. Maybe it means couple mill thicker phones, since the phone isn’t a single glued together slab from front display glass to the back cover glass, so it isn’t rigid by being single monolith resign block essentially. However as far as the massively bulky thick rugged phones, all phones aren’t headed there. That is about impact resistance instead of water or dust resistance. Thick layers of metal and rubber both to withstand and to soften impact.
Not if done correctly. There were some early Samsung’s that did it with rubber o rings on the back that helped keep the water proofing.
My old moto g (not sure which revision) had a removable battery and was water resistant. Used to use it for navigation on my motorbike regardless of the weather
No, we have ip68 smartphone with removable battery.
One of the best things to happen to smartphones I guess but will bring drastic design changes to the back
They should do the same for laptops
I think laptops are also covered.
i really hope the framework already qualifies, would suck to lose that upgrade path
Indeed in the article it says all battery powered devices… Does that also mean somehow headphones(wireless) earbuds, watches, etc
They have standard lithium ion sizes that are tiny; there’s no reason why they couldn’t add threading to earbuds so that you could unscrew them.
And electric cars. I wish you could swap a battery out at a gas station as easily as I can swap out a propane tank.
Try everything that uses a battery
Yeah take that big corporations
Are there any devices that allow a replaceable battery and wireless charging? I know battery swapping can become common, but I also do not want to lose a feature that I currently enjoy.
Yes, we had this ability all the way back in 2012 on the Galaxy S3, which had NFC and Wireless Charging built in to a user replaceable battery pack. It was available on many phones in that era and could easily be brought back if we gave up some “thinness” that we have now.
you could easily add a charging coil in the back of the phone and just have some contacts
my fairphone 4 already has a pair of contacts on its back, with accompanying pogo pins in the body, although i think that’s just for an nfc antenna. still, the same system would totally work
If companies are smart, they will develop that feature and market the heck out of it as a selling point
I can’t think of any reason a battery being removable would impact its ability to wirelessly charge (though it would still need to be in the device to do so).
I don‘t know how to feel about this. While It’s nice to be able to replace the battery, I very much prefer the durability of todays phones over those flimsy removable back plates that used to be common in the 00s.
I really hope they mean that no special tools/skill are required. They should just standardize one type of micro screwdriver that everyone has to use.
Replaceable batteries inevitably also have to be sturdier s.t. they don‘t pose a fire hazard, making the entire phone bulkier or reducing battery life.
My iPhone XR is now over 4 years old and battery capacity is still at 80%, getting me through the day easily.
Before that I had an iPhone 4s where I replaced the battery after ~6 years. I was really disappointed with the new battery and ended up buying a new phone anyway after a few weeks.My phone is the device that I use the most by a huge margin. It doesn‘t bother me too much if I have to replace it every 5-6 years. And I‘m pretty environmetally conscious in general.
I get what you’re saying, but removable batteries and flimsy plastic backs don’t have to go hand in hand. The LG V20 had a metal back and a removable battery
Yeah I had a V10 and it was one of the most premium devices I’ve ever felt. And the best sound quality from a phone, too.
The Galaxy Xcover pro has a good durability, is IP68 and has a removable battery. It’s a matter of willingness.
My Galaxy S5 never felt flimsy. It was even highly waterproof for the time because it had a COVER for the USB Port attached to the phone! It even had a gasp HEADPHONE JACK!
I didn’t know the USB port had a cover. I bought mine used but excellent condition, apparently other than the port cover. My S5 had a brief dip in a river and never charged again. :(
Good thing you had a removable battery so you could charge the battery outside the phone lol
It also looked and felt cheap. HTC did the best solution but back was metal so no wireless charging. I would prefer a back cover like the nexus 5 or lg g4
Gee, I can’t understand how my lgg3 is still in one piece, what with that replaceable battery making it so flimsy.
It’s almost as if I’m imagining it being able to turn on because it fell apart when I sat it on the table three years ago.
Good thing it broke back then! Otherwise, I might have spent tens of dollars on replacement batteries each year!
Not to mention all the tablets that broke because they were flimsy with replaceable batteries. The galaxytab 2 and 3 alone would have blown up from materials fatigue if I’d replaced those batteries over the years. Whew, what a relief I don’t have to have them in use as digital picture frames like I would have otherwise.
Of my last three phones battery has not been the issue I disposed. Mostly it is they grind to halt software wise as they fail to cope with newer apps expectations for storage or ram, I change my phone every 3 to 4 years.
Flimsy? have you tried the LG V20?
Give me a phone with a removable battery in the style of the HTC Sensation 4G. Sexy, metal, easy to open and swap the battery. It was an incredible device that I remember using fondly.
Yeah those old Nokia’s are notoriously flimsy because of the removable batteries 🤦♂️
Yeah. If you owned one and don’t get all your information from memes on reddit, they were incredibly flimsy. It was all cheap ass plastic that was clipped in, they would break and your phone would be heald together by hopes and dreams.
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is that this will inevitably make batteries smaller.
If you are supposed to be able to open the phone and remove the battery manufacturers need to design a way to remove the cover, shield other components, create a compartment for the battery, and use sturdier batteries. All of those things take us space. Manufacturers aren’t just going to make phones thicker so that physical space has to be eaten by something… and it’s going to be the battery.
I really liked having a removable battery on my phone 10 years ago in case I had a particularly long/intensive day. But now that I make it through a day without worry this could actually be sorta annoying.
I mean, I use a fairphone (with removable battery) and in a normal day it can go a whole day without going below 20%. And even if I don’t comsider ot too much of a hassle bringing an external battery for recharge with me when I know I’m gonna use it a lot or will not have time to recharge during the night.
To add, I think the batter capacity of a fairphone is 3905 mAh while eg Pixel 7 has 4355 so the diff is only ~10%
If I can replace a battery without throwing away the phone, I’d definitely be OK with 10% battery reduction
Waterproofing will also become more difficult
sure, but we’re at a point with battery chemistry where that no longer really matters that much. the fairphone 4 is already at 3900 mAh and with both phone electronics constantly getting smaller and battery chemistry improving, it’s highly likely that this year’s fairphone 5 will not only crack the 4000 mAh barrier but fly past it. with a modern mid-range soc (which is really all you need to have a smooth experience outside of games) it’ more than enough to get you through the day with a good margin to spare. and that’s already a user-servicable design that no doubt guided eu legislature on this issue.
Do you think this mandate will also impede ip68/etc water resistance certifications?
Fine print will probably say if you don’t replace the seal when replacing the battery, or get it professionally changed, your warranty is void.
Not really, I have a chinese ip68 certified phone (and actually tested it, no water got in) and the battery is replaceable
9 years ago the galaxy S5 had a removeable battery and was ip67 rated. I’d bet it’s doable.
That was one of the last “jack of all trades” phones. It literally had everything. I loved it
It was so nice having a 3.5mm jack
If we are gonna get removable batteries there needs to be a standard battery format so that each company won’t have its own special battery design. One battery design for all devices. This way the battery will work in whichever phone you put it in.
On the surface that sounds good, but wouldn’t that put a hamper on battery innovation?
I don’t believe so. A battery standard would specify the interface, not the actual battery design from a technical standpoint. It would specify:
- size and shape, i.e. where connectors go, assuring it fits in a phone
- voltage and amperage provided
The rest is up to the battery manufacturer and is completely open to innovation. You want to put a Li-ion battery in there? Just make it the right shape and as long as it can provide the output required, it’s fine. Want some future-tech fusion battery? As long as it’s the right shape and puts out the required power!
Usb is a de-facto standard and are we still using usb 1.1?
Now let me replace the operating system, have unified drivers and I’ll be fine with it
Exceptions for batteries that survive a certain number of charging cycles
Although I support the idea, I’m not sure how useful this is for android phones. All android phones I’ve owned have long gone out of update support before the batteries have noticeably degraded.
Get a Pixel phone. 5 years of updates (technically I think that’s only for security updates, which, arguably are the most important kind of updates. Sure, new features are always nice to have, but if your phone is vulnerable to security flaws because it’s outdated that’s an immense problem)
Even better, get a Pixel phone and put GrapheneOS on it for a more secure and more private phone.
I have a pixel 3a. It went out of support last year. I have no need for a “better” or newer phone. I have dabbled with other os in the past with a pixel 1 and moto g, I should look into it again.
loved the pixel 3a. traded mine in last year when the pixel 6a came out because they had such a good deal of a $350 trade-in value, essentially making the new phone just $150 (which, sad to say, is low for a new phone. So I had to jump on that deal. Plus, with having a nonreplaceable battery it was time for an upgrade anyway since battery life was beginning to sufer.
So excited for the day when I can just replace the battery and keep using my phone (for as long as it received updates at least!)
4 years since the last update on my phone, I really don’t see why I would change unless core apps like Firefox were to stop working.
Security updates
Software doesn’t stop working. Up to date software becomes so slow on obsolete hardware it makes you pull your hair out trying to use it.
Other than now lemmy, the only other apps I use are Firefox and email/messaging apps. Hardly need that much performance.
Exactly. I don’t even keep a phone for longer than 3-5 years. The batteries on my last few phones were still great when I traded them in.
