My grandmother was born in the US not quite 2 years after her parents immigrated. I think semi-often that if she had been born in Sweden I’d be eligible for a passport. I suspect that if the barrier to entry were that low I’d have made the move.
I moved to Germany from the US this year. There is subsidized public transit, universal healthcare, minimum vacation time, a heavy union culture, strong renter-favored laws (although capitalist for profit housing is still an ever growing plague).
As others pointed out, the terminology isn’t a great tool for debate without an agree upon definition. But yes, I would move to a country that cared about people over profits.
We have socialist policies here in the US. We just have fewer of them than other countries.
My favorite example that I think you could consider is the United States program to assist citizens with ESRD, in some cases I think the entire cost is covered. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_Stage_Renal_Disease_Program
Fucking yesterday
Social(ist) policies are extremely removed from socialism. The countries people list here, aka Canada, Danmark and Ireland among others are extremely capitalist still. This thread is therefore useless.
Yeah, I feel like “a country with strong social safety nets” would be a better way of putting it
Socialism has a TON of historical baggage
In theory I could just move back to England, but right now I’m quite happy where I’m at. If a job opportunity came up, who knows?
Probably. If I could get a job with the same standard of living, the moving costs were paid (do not overlook this, it’s insane), the paperwork was trivial or non existant, sure. Bonus perks would be language classes and walkability/bikeability.
It depends on what “socialism” entails, but US capitalism has failed me and mine, has caused so much suffering in my friends and family.
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First, please define what you mean by socialism. That word encompasses a lot of very different forms of government, even when it’s used “correctly”, and it’s typically not.
The Nazis called themselves socialists, and I’m not moving there.
When many people say socialism, what they mean is capitalist democracy with a strong social safety net, strong government regulation, and highly progressive taxation.
Edit: for the love of god, please do a little bit of reading about socialism before reinforcing my point that this word is used terribly. We won’t take the wiki as ultimate truth, but please read. Be better. Read and think first. Comment later.
When many people say socialism, what they mean is capitalist democracy with a strong social safety net, strong government regulation, and highly progressive taxation.
Let’s go with that definition since that’s what most people think of as socialist.
That is objectively not socialism (any definition of socialism that begins by defining it as a form of capitalism is fundamentally confused)
That said, I’d agree that it is a widespread misunderstanding today. And what people mean when they say socialism is usually actually social democracy (which despite sounding like the word socialism is a mixed system based on capitalism)
Using that misunderstanding as the definition I would definitely live in many of those countries. Many have some of the highest qualities of life in the world, low rates of poverty, universal access to good healthcare and education, and good social mobility.
E.g Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, Germany
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Yes… Please reread my last comment more slowly… particularly the first two paragraphs.
I swear. This place is way more toxic than Reddit.
I can’t imagine someone being so condescending there on a topic like this.
Please read the Wikipedia article. We don’t have to agree that Wikipedia is an ultimate source of truth, but it is a pretty good article.
I don’t think I’ll be able to communicate anything more to someone who tells me to “read more slowly”.
You’re the one who responded to their comment without actually reading it, why are you complaining about them?
Exactly. This is what the person you are responding to is saying as well.
They state that the above definition of socialism is wrong as it defines it as a from of capitalism with social features. But under the condition that this is meant he would move into these countries.
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It’s actually not even that. The Wikipedia page talks about free and mixed market in socialism.
That’s capitalism.
It uses the word literally.
I would love to.
When many people say socialism, what they mean is capitalist democracy
Lol. Lmao, even
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@nodsocket @PetDinosaurs > OP: what socialist policies would you implement?
> commenter: what do you mean by socialism?
> OP: let’s go with an incorrect definition of socialism. what social democrat policies would you implement?Provided there is an appropriate amount of technocracy (decisions made by experts rather than politicians), it’d be hard for me to think of a better form of government.
Anyway, this was largely the US until Regan. Social safety net could’ve been stronger, but that had to evolve. Same as in Europe.
Except , racism. Addressing that is not a part of any definition of socialism that I’m aware of. Equality is certainly going along with the spirit of this definition of “socialism”
“Socialists of Lemmy, would you move to a country that someone who has absolutely no idea what socialism is thinks is socialist?”
Lmao.
The question doesn’t need to be hypothetical. I am moving to a country exactly like that. From the US.
Lack of modern health care coverage alone is enough to justify it. A bonus is that the quality of life across the board is significantly higher.
Where at and how’d you pull that off? Inquiring minds want to know
I read that Denmark releases a list every six months of the skills and degrees that are allowed to immigrate, or get priority or something like that. From looking at the last one I assume they value education, the liberal arts and humanities a lot more than the US.
It ends up being a catch 22. When you want to leave the US because of a lack of upward mobility, social services, jobs in your field, and you can’t save because of healthcare, rent, and debt, then how can you have enough money to move to another state, much less another country?
Portugal and a lot of effort (Plus cash to invest).
Basically going through the Golden Visa process (Which has changed substantially the last year, happy to explain more if curious)
Can’t answer the where at, but most likely by having an in demand skill and/or a job already lined up. Either that or they had family there. Immigration away from here is basically impossible otherwise.
Yep. Sucks being trapped here forever unless I get a PhD or get rich.
They have qualifications. Or relatives. Or something of value to offer.
If you have a PhD or MD (additionally, you know, just straight money), you can emigrate to a lot of places. Probably most places.
Why couldn’t that what you just described be called something different other than “socialism” then? Sounds like a bad move to make it fall under that same umbrella especially since that term is very frowned upon if not straight out forbidden in a few European countries for example.
It is, the term for this type of system is called Social Democracy which is not a synonym for socialism, but people (Americans at least) confused and conflate the two terms to the point that they’ve become one and the same in the minds of many people who don’t really understand the terms or their origins.
Words, used in non technical contexts, mean what people mean when they use them.
Descriptive. Not proscriptive.
Incidentally, most people suck at communication
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So in your view these people are inherently more ‘great’ than others? What would you call these people who are so above average? The over people? The overmen? The ubermensch… oh whoops
Are you seriously trying to compare that statement to Nazi ideology?
Yes. I think that great artists and scientists and chefs and authors and teachers and those that work hard contribute more to society than others.
The Nobel prizes are being announced this week.
The work of Katalin Karikó and Drew Weissman saved millions. Most people are not capable of that.
Yes I think subdividing humanity into the great people who perform all the work, and the lowly masses that exist to serve them is at the heart of Nazi ideology so I am making that comparison.
Because we’re too busy categorizing this stupid shit into bins of “good” and “bad” when reality is a greyscale between these two. These are fairly reasonable points and should be viewed as a more centrist POV, but since we (read: primarily North America) have a tribal “us vs. them” animosity about it we lump many reasonable ideas together on each end of the spectrum. Things like not having to go bankrupt when you or a loved one needs an emergency hospital visit somehow automatically gets lumped in with the other extreme “socialist” ideas just to solely argue against it and not budge from their end of the extreme.
Wow, yes this is so true for many discussions online and increasingly offline as well. Nuance seems to be not welcomed. Sometimes even suggesting there might be nuance or the topic might be more complicated than black and white already puts you firmly in the enemy camp.
Fucking Preach! I do not understand this mentality of one team or the other.
What’s the weather like?
Based on existing socialist countries? So cold that the air explodes upon contact with human skin
Then I will remain a subversive in the country of my birth,
Fuck yes! I love cold weather. Sign me up.
Not just cold, but also wet, dark and grey. Yet somehow we’re the happiest country in the world. Go figure.
My most recent vacation was north of the arctic circle in Finland in December and I didn’t want to leave. It was a multi day sled tour across Lapland. I wish I could find a way to make it practical for me to move somewhere in Scandinavia, but for now I’ll just visit when I can.
I’m a Canadian, but if I had to pick another country to live in it’d be one of the Scandinavian countries. They always top the global charts on happiest and healthiest people and that’s almost exclusively due to governments providing very generous social programs. I wouldn’t even have to adjust to the cold weather! The hardest part would be learning how to pronounce things like tjugosju
100% if that country is in northern Europe. Hard nope if it’s in South America.
I’d buy a ticket tomorrow if there was a job for me in a Scandinavian country and I didn’t need to speak the language immediately.
Ireland is calling you. Cost of living is high but check it out.
Soft same. Norway would be awesome. I love the cold.
Not wanting to learn a language of the country you live in, is kinda asocial tbh
Emigrating from the US was the best decision of my life
I’ve recently connected with distant family in Norway. I’ve visited Norway 3 times. I would love to relocate to Norway.
Yes. Looking hard at the Nordic countries.
