We all know the hypocrisies of the pro- Israel stances, I’m not going into specific arguments but it’s just everywhere. Normal people seem to have bought in even quicker than they did with supporting Ukraine. it’s awful. Free Palestine.
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the past month has given me whiplash and I now exist in a permanent state of dizzy rage
After the libs making themselves hoarse and crazy by shouting “RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!..” like Rachel Maddow - I didn’t think they could get worse. How wrong I was. The craziest thing I’ve seen is libs trying to compare Gaza/Hamas to Russia.
An example is the following article. I tried to read it but the text is a crazy person half-heartedly trying to make a nonsense argument out of pure gibberish.
States and quasi-states are using extreme, uninhibited violence against civilian populations.
By Anne Applebaum
[…]
Hamas is not a sovereign state, but it has the full backing of Iran, a sovereign state, and funding from Qatar, a sovereign state. Since 2006, Hamas has also been the de facto ruling party in Gaza, a self-governing territory since the Israeli withdrawal in 2005. Nevertheless Hamas does not see itself as part of any kind of order…
And such takes are always ahistorical. There are no rules now? There have never been rules for the powerful. During World War II in a ~24 hour period - the US killed more people with conventional weapons than died by the nuclear strikes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
A US general said if Japan had won the war - they would have been charged with war crimes.
Bombing of Tokyo (10 March 1945)
On the night of 9/10 March 1945, the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) conducted a devastating firebombing raid on Tokyo, the Japanese capital city. This attack was code-named Operation Meetinghouse… Bombs dropped from 279 Boeing B-29 Superfortress heavy bombers burned out much of eastern Tokyo. More than 90,000 and possibly over 100,000 Japanese people were killed, mostly civilians, and one million were left homeless, making it the most destructive single air attack in human history.
By Anne Applebaum
Opinion discarded
How strange, it seems like violence can only go one way
I too feel the effects of the gaslighting actively happening. A friend of mine deeply believes the still completely unverified bits about babies being beheaded all because “eyewitnesses on the ground”. Which turned into a heated back and forward where I tried reminding them of as many similar lies and misinformation as I could. Also trying to remind them of how so many people have been sent to prison and/or death-row all from “eyewitnesses” either just making it up or otherwise not realizing the trauma of a situation caused them to misremember. One of the larger things I brought up was how almost literally the same kind of fake story was used to get the final nudge for getting people behind invading Iraq in the 90s. Also that fascists on the ground can say they saw all kinds of shit, but of course they will because the fascists always try to use very extreme fake stories or add extreme lies to an event that did happen.
In the end I think my friend will just mark it as me being a useful idiot (as they do for literally anything China related) or just denying bad shit. The “proof” is always on me, and never “correct” (again basically anything China). But they refuse to see how if everyone just blindly spreads shit on those really extreme stories and fully embrace allowing real evil things to keep being done (like 9/11 did/does for the US). And ends up with no amount of information and investigations that find otherwise will be enough to change their minds. Ignoring that the for-profit “news outlets” push these stories because profits go nuts, and even if full proof is found not anywhere near as much effort (or any at all) is put into retracting/correcting the misinformation. So the last thing the average person remembers ever is just the claims of fucked up shit being “true”.
In the end I will continue to not simply run away from efforts to push through with them or anyone I care about. Because these things matter and if I can’t keep trying with them, I can’t say that I am also a revolutionary. Fear at all levels is used to keep the masses fighting the wrong enemies and is how fascism is manifested and allowed to win.
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fml (though I’m excited for the juicy arguments IRL)
There is no juice, just bile
With Palestine,
AmericansWesterners also get to indulge in their favourite pasttime (hating dark skinned people, especially Muslims) so they were quick on the uptake.A local baker that I like posted the “I stand with Israel” screed and thats when I knew things were deeply fucked
A lot of businesses doing stuff like that are probably just trying to get more business which is actually somehow worse.
For those of you who were around for it - this is how it felt to be a leftist or even just a sane person during 9/11, right? Just watching everyone around you and in the media become consumed with psychotic bloodlust?
This is exactly how I’ve been describing this moment. I haven’t been so lost in the world since that time. It feels like you can’t even begin to dig through the hate and propaganda. Everyone around you is acting morally superior for wanting blood. People you thought were a little more level headed are just consumed.
It’s deeply upsetting to be watching this play out again. It feels like living inside a trainwreck and you don’t know how to help anything because it’s already happening with so much momentum.
It also leaves you feeling deeply vulnerable. Like any day the world could pick you as a target, and everyone around you would cheer on as the world devoured you.
I’ve thought so much on post 9/11, especially the run up to the Iraq War. I hoped I’d never feel this way again, but here we are.
Take care of yourselves. Dunno what else to say.
History never ends, eventually I believe and hope that people will look back at us in wonder of our stupidity, and the few of the few of us that get to be remembered in history will be finally recognised as beyond their time, just like we think of the Greek philosophers today.
Take care and keep a glimpse of hope, it’s all we’ve got
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Curious to hear others responses as well.
Nah shit was waaaaaaaaaaaay fucking worse with Iraq and Afghanistan openly calling people removed and open islamophobia and racism against arabs was perfectly acceptable, even commonplace in average conversation with basically any american. It was all over tv, it was everywhere. Things are definitely different now… Instead they’re controlling people by tapping into performative morality and performative outrage as social signals people adhere to and all dance along like good little puppets.
It was way worse than this. Like, many times worse. All the bloodlust but also blended with performative patriotism.
Yes BUT the friends I marched with then are now #standingwithisrael
Yeah basically. And the most likely outcome IMO is Israel has it’s own war on terror jr. and it goes just as well for everyone involved.
I have seen more pro-Palestinian and anti-apartheid stuff than I thought I would. Obviously not from the usual shitheads like at the WSJ or NYT but just in online comments around spaces. Obviously the western news narrative is pro-apartheid so that part is very usual. The side commentary is not.
yeah it’s a tossup when it comes to liberals, and young people especially (i go to uni) seem to be mostly leaning pro-palestine. also, my older relatives/friends of relatives were both-sidesing it (seeing a lot of that), but i was actually able to convince them otherwise by explaining the situation more deeply
also i went to the instagrams of a few celebrities that made pro-israel posts and their last non-disabled comment sections were all spammed to the brim with free palestine stuff lmao
9/11 had more popular Islamophobic support. It was almost universal and it frightened me to be surrounded by it. I had to keep very quiet because I knew no one that openly opposed the bloodlust, including the desire to invade countries that had nothing to do with it.
9/11 also turned the nascent “New Atheist” movement into just another reactionary front. The so-called “Horsemen” that were leading personalities (with maybe one exception) were all aboard the war train.
Yes, i remember the freedom fries… the yellow ribbons… The Jeep commercial…
…and Im proud to be an American, where at least i know im free! And i wont forget the men who died to give that right to me!..
And the eagle will fly man, it’s gonna be hell When you hear mother freedom start ringin’ her bell And it feels like the whole wide world is raining down on you Brought to you courtesy of the red white and blue
The top song in the country was about how if you messed with America we’d bomb you so bad you’d think the sky was falling.
And that’s not including the line in the same song “well put a boot in your ass it’s the american way”
I wonder if the taliban appreciate how fully they did destroy at least the culture and soul of America on 9-11.
Then that dip shit spent the rest of his career trying to posture as a liberal
I mean that was absolutely the liberal foreign policy positions at the time so that makes sense.
Also look up the music video of his dumb ass riding around in a humvee wearing neos glasses from the matrix.
🤢🤮
It was overall worse. The fact that you could have pro-Palestinian protests right now without people getting killed means it’s already better. If you had an anti-Afghanistan invasion protest right at 2001 when the invasion happened, so literally 22 years ago from this date, your entire group of protestors would’ve 100% been lynched on the spot by an angry mob.
It was that bad.
Wait, it was that bad? Give me an example of such lynching?
There wasn’t any lynchings because they weren’t any antiwar protests in 2001-10 period. Anti-war protests only started to happen when the US invaded Iraq. Compared that with right now where you just had pro-Palestinian protests at NYC. The political climate is completely different.
There wasn’t any lynchings because they weren’t any antiwar protests in 2001-10 period. Anti-war protests only started to happen when the US invaded Iraq.
What you said breaks my brain … can you please correct and elaborate your points again because even if what you said was true, anti-war protests coud’ve started in the mid 2000s, according to your logic, after the invasion of Iraq, and the explain to me how the political climates before and now is completely different anyhow?
No, I mean October 2001, which was when Afghanistan was invaded. I didn’t mean 2001-2010. There weren’t antiwar protests in October 2001. Antiwar protests only started becoming a thing after the invasion of Iraq in March 2003. So, it took around a year and a half after 9/11 before you were allowed to have antiwar protests.
Oh, sorry for confusing myself… the only closest feel to that which I feel of Afghanistan and later Iraq, is what I feel now with Russo-Ukrainian War and the revival of Palestine’s struggle
pretty much
pretty much but at least back then there still seemed to be a thriving leftist anti-imperialist mindset among the people that sadly seems to have been lost since the crushing of the OWS protests.
lol no there was even less of a left then than now lol no contest
post-9/11 america was absolutely worse
how do you figure? it feels like everyone who gave a shit back then are now either chuds, dead, or were spooked
I’m still here babe, just a deeply mentally ill hermit in montana
Imagine now, except the farthest left content on the entire internet is The Young Turks and 93% of everyone around you supports Bush and you don’t even have a bunch of online weirdos to commiserate with
There was an online communist left back then but it was comprised entirely of very elderly Trotskyites running newsletters with 2 subscribers or very odd academics who ran IRC chat rooms with struggle sessions lasting for literal years
I remember as a youngster stumbling into one of their forums in like 2003 and getting banned in my first post because I asked if someone could summarize Bordiga
banned in my first post because I asked if someone could summarize Bordiga
Fair reaction.
Maybe it’s because I was a kid back then but this feels similar only worse
i don’t know exactly when it was but i remember reading in probably an AP wire story that “curveball” wasn’t reliable and having some understanding that iraq didn’t have shit to do with 9/11.
the support for invasion of iraq,the paranoid racism, and the expansion of the police state all seem worse in hindsight because i was largely sheltered from all of it.
Yeah it probably was worse then but this still feels weirder in the sense that back then it was just the normal flag perverts humping the
Now we’ve got all this flag cuck kink shit where the flag perverts are waving the Israeli and Ukrainian flags and it’s kinda scary in a different way
Yes this is the most bloodthirsty I’ve seen liberals for killing innocent Muslims since 9-11.
All my lib friends and acquaintances are “standing with Israel” #Israelflagemoji
It’s gross. I have social groups (not friends even but other social settings) where my best bet is to hope the topic doesn’t come up or change the subject.
Send them content from /r/israelexposed until they remove the israel flag.
I have a coworker who’s Jewish and has absolutely terrible political takes, he seems down this week, but I haven’t tried asking why because I am not sure how I will react to his shit. I don’t think anyone has mentioned what’s going on because everyone at work (tech company) lives in their own little world.
I don’t think anyone has mentioned what’s going on because everyone at work (tech company) lives in their own little world
or they dont want to be fired
I’m Jewish, support for Israel is much less prevalent among us than among other groups (evangelicals for instance). Younger Jews especially find Israel icky. I’ve known a bunch who were involved with SJP and BDS. Most of the world’s Jews also vote with their feet and choose not to live in Israel.
Yep, I’m sure that’s the case for a lot of Jewish people (it is for others I have known). This guy is just really conservative.
everyone at work (tech company) lives in their own little world
They may be discussing “thought experiments” like “what if the solution to the Palestinian conflict… was the blockchain?”
I’m so glad I’m off social media aside from an artist IG page I use
I’ve enjoyed hearing about everything from this site and it’s great contributors
This is where my Mr Rogers good neighbors are
It angers me that when this is over, either way it ends, none of these assholes now demonizing us will ever even apologize for being on the wrong side of history, let alone be held accountable for it. Pointing out that they supported Israel or both-sidesed Palestinian liberation will have the same exact impact as pointing out Iraq War supporters has now, which is fucking nothing. They’ll get to walk it off and move onto the next invented reality, and we’ll get to see it happen all over again.
The best possible outcome is a bunch of desk jockeys joining the IDF or some foreign mercenary legion and getting obliterated by a 16 year old wearing slides with an RPG.
I think a lot of is rooted in American idea of colonialism, “Manifest Destiny”, general Ann Rand style brain poisoning.
They see indigenous people as sub-human who aren’t using the land they occupy properly. As such they believe its their right to take it from them cause they aren’t “doing it right”. Its our right to take from those we see as lesser. We have been doing in Africa and South America and much of Asia for decades. The American people see pretty much every non-western European nation as barbarians in the rhetorical sense. Uncultured savages who need to be either need to be broken or buried.
If some other people have what we want and they don’t look some dude from the state of Maine we feel totally okay using every T-800 we have in our vast armory. Also no amount of capital vacuumed up for working people or the blood of the youth is too much to get it.
I also don’t think people understand that Israel is client state, I also don’t think most people don’t understand what client state even is. Ukraine is my go-to example. Every single coin and bullet we have was sent to them no questions asked, and we will do the same thing to Israel. We will give them War Machine power-suits to destroy residential buildings and parks indiscriminately.
I really don’t think people understand foreign policy at all. Nor understand that America is an empire and doing empire shit is bad. Pretty much every comfortable in the US is a warhawk the moment they understand its brown people or “The Reds”.
and it’s even worse when all my social media is filled with libs, cause i jettisoned all the conservatives a decade ago. ive already seen one dumbass post that being pro-Palestine is anti-semitic. literally suck on my fucking asshole, lib.
This is the sort that would say that Arabs are antisemitic because they don’t know that Arabs are also Semites.
my partner who is in trade school right now was suprised to overhear a conversation where some guy was like “i used to support israel but…” and then had a bunch of good, pro-palestine takes. everyone there generally agreed with him. sure it’s anecdotal but really makes me wonder how much of this is pure astroturfing and manufactured consent. also today my co-worker also felt me out a bit and then had good takes of his own about the situation.
Israel puts a huge effort into astroturfing, like really massive, and most major social media in the US either has former CIA/State Dept. goons in management or just directly work with the feds. I think internet takes on this are probably massively manipulated.
People in trade school probably aren’t in the turbo-lib bubble so their brains are still less than 50% worm
I think there’s a lot of astroturf. I scrolled down on one of the
threads and saw a lot comments written like they’re replies. Either reddit’s broken, or a bot fucked up and posted threads to the top level, or people with strong feelings about Israel don’t know how to reply to comments on reddit.https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/174kae0/more_than_100_bodies_found_in_israeli_kibbutz/
Comments by tibbles1, LeftLeftRightRight, jiaxingseng, notaredditer13 and probably many others are written like replies and quote comments that I can’t find. Although there are a lot of deleted comments.
on the topic of Reddit:
“I know what it’s like to live under censorship,” [Ashooh] said. “My internal check, when I’m arguing for a restrictive policy on the site, is Do I sound like an Arab government? If so, maybe I should scale it back.” On the other hand, she said, “people hide behind the notion that there’s a bright line between ideology and action, but some ideologies are inherently more violent than others.”
- Jessica Ashooh, director of policy at Reddit.
Check out that list of credits. The Atlantic Council corroborates it: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/expert/jessica-ashooh/
what’s shocking to me is how utterly bloodthirsty they are - basically advocating for the wholesale murder of all Gazan inhabitants. what the fuck? what happened?
was there some sort of manchurian candidate-style trigger phrase that turned all of these people into genocide lovers overnight?
The trigger was just that it’s white people killing brown people so it’s back to business as normal.
It sounds simplisitic but the support for ukraine was literally because somebody was doing what we always do, but to white people.
This is par for the course.
Reminds me of when 9/11 happened and suddenly the hogs (and libs tbh) were all calling for saddams head and to “glass the place” like their trigger phrase went off.
bush had a 93% approval rating
Worth keeping in mind that;
1.) People who post online are already deeply weird freaks
2.) There are a lot of Zionists out there. Like not relative to the world population or anything, but Zionists have a very developed online propaganda system. Both individuals working alone or coordinating to push Zionist views, and official operations by the Israeli government and possibly allied governments. The use of sock-puppets has been documented in the past, and I’m sure they’re making extensive use of bots these days to magnify and amplify their apparent numbers. It’s a normal part of 21st century information warfare and you can see it at work by nationalists from most countries.
they saw a pretty white girl get killed by the brown hordes, it shuts down all their higher brain functions and sets off the monkey signals that make them want to kill
Protecting white women from real or imagined violence by
the other is and always has been a key element of white supremacism and often of fascism generally.This is such an effective propaganda trick, it strikes people right where they’re most vulnerable, in their hearts, by showing someone you could fall in love with killed in a war that naturally takes lives and commits attrocities in both sides. We all have simple monkey brains at the end of the day, and that can be very easily exploited by those with power.
they saw a pretty white girl get killed by the brown hordes
Before 9/11, about 90% of Fox News’ airtime was “missing wealthy young white woman” stories.
They did it after 9/11 too! I remember my shithead roommate always had it on and there was nonstop Natalie Holloway coverage for years.
she’s confirmed to be alive
Shani Louk or whatever? Inconsequential to me, I’m not apologizing for the terror but funny if Zionists get caught lyin’ (again)
It’s because most Palestine residents are brown while more Israeli residents are white. Simple racism.
Literally just white supremacy. Good God we need a thousand GULAGs to deal with this shit.
