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- cross-posted to:
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- [email protected]
Too narrow, hidden, minimal feedback…
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Even using pc all day I can’t click a scroll bar on the first time!
Does anyone know what text editor that is in the screenshot? Looks like vscode but less bloaty? I’m interested.
It is Sublime Text!
I personally love it, but IntelliSense made me switch some time ago. The free version asks you to get a license every 50 or so saves, just saying that in case it bothers someone. Other than that, it’s a pretty great text editor, definitely much faster (and less bloated) than VSCode.
Don’t get me started on single line text fields. Either I have the world’s slowest onset of Parkinson’s disease or they are making the clickable area of the text Fields smaller than the height of the actual text these days
Edit: Someone agree with me don’t just upvote lol
My favorite text-related thing in websites is the layouts with enormous amounts of screen real estate that still put important information (like song or film titles) in a single line that ends up truncated with ellipses (with bonus points when they don’t even implement a tooltip that would show you the whole thing). Like, wrapping text and having the rest of the UI flow beneath it has been easy to do in any language for literally decades, but somehow programmers don’t know how to do it and designers get pissed if you make them even think about that.
And could I get a web page that doesn’t have massive blank spaces on the sides? I get you need a mobile site but for fuck sake my monitor is 16:9 .
Well, I won’t agree, because I haven’t met with this problem yet. I’m just here to somewhat disagree with the upvote part: in my book, upvote means agreement. I find it totally unnecessary to repeat the same thing, when you can just upvote. That’s what upvote is for.
(But as I said, I didn’t agree, so it wasn’t me, I didn’t upvote.)
Hahaha
I bought a macropad with knobs just because of this… (I use a Wacom tablet in place of a mouse and it doesn’t have a worthy scrollwheel alternative, so I couldn’t navigate many “modern” websites and programs)
I have a Wacom Intuos with a scroll wheel.
Edit: not the touch ring, either. An old school one with an actual wheel, just like a mouse scroll wheel but wider.
oh nice. What’s the model ? I’m curious, never heard of it
Oh sorry, I was mistaken. It’s a Wacom Graphire 4.
Didn’t know about it, makes you wonder why they deemed the “touch ring” superior to a proper physical wheel
There was a time in the mid-00s when “touch” was a buzzword that immediately increased sales by 200%, and they probably never got out of that mode.
It could be that websites are being made unbearable, to pressure users into switching to the site’s mobile apps, which are generally spyware. I can’t stand looking at homedepot.com on a phone, for example. Even if I don’t look at the screen, I can feel the phone warming up in my hand as the crapware javascript on the site drains the phone battery.
I just generally don’t browse the web on mobile unless I’m away from home and don’t have a computer nearby. Phones are inferior computers.
I’ve never even used them. I just scrolled with a mouse or the touchpad gesture, and its much more convenient.
But if we show a full-sized scrollbar all the time, we lose all that space that we could have left completely empty otherwise!
Yeah, losing function over form is annoying.
They need that extra space to cram in more ads!
Misc. forenote: not sure if true on all systems but on mine, if you right-click on the scroll bar it acts similar to the old scrollbar arrows (in my file manager it’s slower, but moving the mouse speeds it up)
My eyesight is not the best (and my screen isn’t that big), but I still don’t mind it (for example Firefox). I like that it doesn’t seem to change content width (even expanded, it’s still in the margins with my higher zoom level). Though I could see using a brighter scroll bar, particularly as it gets smaller (also, a darker scrollbar background to increase contrast). Color might help for readability too.
Back when I used Chrome I didn’t like the white scrollbar background and light-gray bar that was horrible contrast yet too bright (and in the corner of my eye it didn’t register properly due to that). At one point I used an extension to fix that with a thinner-but-high-contrast bar.
Then again, I also made my own ultra-compact window theme for XFCE (well, XFWM). Frameless and the titlebar is 12px tall but the window buttons are only 8px tall… some of the buttons are slightly wider to compensate (minimize and maximize are widest at 20px), though I would ideally like to allow them to be wider with a wider window (with the current setup, a long-titled window will be made shorter if the buttons take up too much space on a small window).
There is some utility for this as well, as I can have a small music player on-screen or even rolled up and it doesn’t block much on the screen. Though I admit it’s diminishing returns, specifically without making my own WM which I am unlikely to do.
Doesn’t bother me. I’ve been using scroll wheels on desktops and the two finger swipe on laptop track pads for so long that it has to have been at least 20 years since I’ve last used a scroll bar. They could disappear entirely and I wouldn’t even notice.
I use it as a progress bar sometimes: want to know how far down the page I am.
Didn’t really bother me till I got bit by a dog and it fucked up my pointer finger.
Did you notice that part of the article was about people who use eye tracking to navigate? Likely people with disabilities?
Glad you’re fine with the trend. Doesn’t mean it’s okay.
I did not. I have ADHD.
I do too.
I’ll see ones that seem to show up visually but I’ve never ever been able to click onto it and move it.
Customizing the scrollbar on Firefox using CSS is different so many sites don’t even bother and keep the default one
Seems like I’m gonna get downvoted for this, but I’m all about that out of sight, out of mind vibe when it comes to things that aren’t used often.
nevertheless it would not hurt to have at least some options on how to display the scrollbars (if at all)
deleted by creator
options
There’s the keyword. There should be easy to navigate settings for this.
The problem with modern designers and developers is that they push the narrative that there is “one” way to do things so they don’t have to maintain different configurations.
It’s lazy. It’s incompetent. It’s what makes them more money for doing less work.
The solution is to have higher standards. Don’t let these fools tell you what you want just so their jobs are easier.
Lots of people who are designing websites and webapps are just out for the design. Usability went in the background for whatever reason.
But more and more people are getting more aware of user friendly UI and functions for people with disabilities. But yet it’s not the highest priority sadly.
for whatever reason
Flashy sleek shit gets invested in.
Outside of business specifically oriented towards people with accessibility issues, the energy just doesn’t translate into VC.
Companies who do try to shoehorn it in when products are more mature usually have:
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A codebase with a frustrating amount of refactoring in order to retroactively get things in line.
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Development inertia where it’s seen as a low value activity among developers and product owners
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Lack of clear guidance/tools/processes to QA new work
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Lack of will to retroactively identify the breadth and scope of changes you even want to make
There is no mystery. It’s not going to get you sexy VC money at the beginning, and then it’s bizarrely more work than you’d think once your project is sufficiently large.
That doesn’t explain why already established products are ditching things like plainly visible scroll bars in products like Microsoft word and other content viewers.
That’s true. I can speak from experience how I’ve seen it go down in many products, but no idea what apple and Microsoft are thinking.
It’s bizarre, because usually at some point in size, companies will start to explicitly have accessibility UAT processes. Even directorship roles specifically with that responsibility
It’s bizarre, because usually at some point in size, companies will start to explicitly have accessibility UAT processes. Even directorship roles specifically with that responsibility
I used to be a programmer for a large cable company (rhymes with “bombast”) and at one point I was the only programmer there working on accessibility in all their mobile products. The executives there at all levels had a shocking contempt for accessibility as something to even be concerned about at all and it showed in the disastrous state of all their apps. The only reason they even began to address the problem was the threat of million-dollars-per-month fines from the FCC for all the accessibility audit failures. They even hired a blind guy as accessibility VP but he quit in despair over the corporate lack of concern after just a few months.
This. And it doesn’t only apply to companies. I have a personal blog with a couple accessibility issues that I haven’t bothered to fix because I’ve built a lot of my CSS around my bad HTML. Part of the issue is that I built my site as a school project for a web design class I was taking, so code quality wasn’t great. One day I might redesign it better, but I don’t have the energy for now.
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Eh, scrollbars are one of my least favourite UX design choices, though I respect that some people like them and do think that they should be a reasonable size for those who do want them.
There are so many better ways to navigate vertically scaling content now (not least of which, mousewheels). I think they served a good purpose in the early days of document editors and web browsers, but they’re a bit of an easy out for poorly laid out content.
It’s so much easier to just drag a scrollbar than use the mouse wheel to go past 1000s of lines - especially if you know how far down the bit you want is!
That is absolutely correct. Anyone who’s done office work or computer work with huge documents knows the true value of the classic scrollbar.
It is superior to the scroll wheel because it gives more powerful control over the same function, but since it is slightly harder to use than the wheel, the lazy users avoid it for mundane tasks.
This is true for some things, but I still much prefer a ToC or a textual search, index, etc. for the majority of cases.
I find myself much more frequently ctrl+f -ing my way to content than doing scroll-and-scan nowadays.
Text search with indicators for the search results in the scroll bar is awesome
NGL, it is lit. But it’s kind of in minimap territory where you don’t actually need a scrollbar to give the same info. Definitely helps with seeing the density of results in certain areas of long docs
Not me installing a css snippet in Obsidian to solve this exact problem.
