(begin rant)
Hi. Do you ever have a feeling that you have technical skills to qualify as a programmer, and there’s a demand for specialists, but, ironically, nobody needs them to design some useful information system or optimize the workflow in the factories, or do real science and push the limitations of human knowledge, but rather, all is just to spread some crappy advertising message as cheap as possible to the broadest audience as possible, usually without giving any respect to consumers, that feels like you’re losing your brain cells when interacting with the app/content you create. Quality level zero, consumerism level over 9k. Tons of boilerplate because ‘everything must be kept proprietary’ and it probably won’t work after 2 years because the framework you were using is down and the very idea of the becomes dated. Also, the more advanced technology, the more it’s used for shit. Like, we have generative neural networks that are used for turdposting conspiracies and generating profit/influence for some party.
I would say this clearly: I am very, very angry when I’m seeing this. I don’t want to participate in something that forces consumers to eat shit. Fuck SEO and e-commerce. Everything’s generative-AI, GANs, LLMs… now, which do not produce any value, at least to the user, or extracting every single bit of data of the user. Everything’s just to bombard people with information nowadays. Even Project Managers get biased (mostly because of naïve hype) and promote this crap.
(end rant)
So, my question is, how do you go through all of it? Of course, devs are better paid, but I don’t care about money. I’m still a student and, although I really like programming, and I’m really good at solving Competitive Programming problems (been at ICPC several times), I’m tired of this junk, besides I have a feeling I’ll be forced to do it. But, if I’m going to do it, somebody’s gonna get hurt. But it seems that it’s the only thing I’m skilled at, and I have no alternatives. So, how do you get through all of it, and what do you see it as relief, what does reward you at the very end?
EDIT: uncensored all swear words at request. I hope now you’re happy.
Surely there are other programming jobs you can get? I work on IT service management software for mostly the public sector. We can’t even use Google Analytics. How about embedded systems? Automation for factories? Medical software? I once worked on AI for detecting lesions in eye-fundus photographs, to screen for diabetes. There’s plenty of specialized software for
niceniche sectors, for example I did cost estimation and planning software for the construction industry. Or you can go work for some indie developer to make games. Put away some money and you can eventually start your own company to make the kind of software you enjoy making.Without doxxing myself, I worked for a small firm that helped “tech for good” companies to build their MVP or product towards Series A-C funding.
In the four years I worked with them, I don’t remember a single project there that wasn’t tainted by corruption, dodgy owners, or outright lies. This ranges from:
- The owner of a popular wellness and workplace stress app getting pissed off with me because a bug was found in a Node backend I had built for her (a PDF upload didn’t fill the correct fields in the DB). Her support contract was up with us, so she took the sane approach - literally calling my employer out on LinkedIn, and me by name as being an “incompetent developer”. Legal got involved, and she had to issue an apology online.
- Several instances of outright lying in pitch decks about customer numbers and eco credentials to get “green” funding.
- The company itself transitioning to crypto, despite pushing the fact that they only work on tech for good projects, while being run by a COO with a history of being inappropriate, having heavy drug/alcohol use, and being genuinely fucking useless in the world of tech.
- A workplace surveying tool to unlock happiness in the workplace getting funding through our work, then deciding to fire the entire fucking team we had built to run their product because they wanted to cut costs and sell to the highest bidder - a company notorious for horrendous workplace practices.
- Someone bragging about their CTO working at Amazon for 5 years. While true, it was in a fulfillment center.
- Countless charities that burn through money in ways you wouldn’t believe, or act hypocritical to their main mission. Imagine trying to fire someone at a mental health charity because they needed time off from stress, or making dead kid jokes at a fundraiser for a children’s charity…
Working at that place made me realise that sometimes the best you can hope for is a leadership structure that aren’t total assholes, and to work on something that you at least have some faith in.
Several of your use cases are just a different career. I optimize factory Workflows for a living, it’s industrial engineering, and it’s a very different skill set from programming
Go into embedded software. You can’t do ads if there is no UI taps head.
Cli advertisements FTW - Ubuntu embedded edition
Do not work for a company that defies your moral compass. Period. Integrity is what makes legends.
Companies are led by humans and their morals and priorities reflect all the way down.
Bro… Most people are bootlickers so they shill whatever their corpo daddy tells them and they do it for free on their time off
🤡
better things exist, but nothing is ever perfect.
it would be better to learn to dettach your self-esteem from the job. think on work like the chore it is, like taking out the trash and washing dishes, something you do to pay the bills
I took decades of experience plus adhd medication and depression medication to get where I am. I still feel annoyed to be using tech I don’t like and doing stuff I don’t like, but I’m handling it a lot better now
Everything’s generative-AI, GANs, LLMs… now, which do not produce any value,
hey, I think my LLM satire news thing is cool, at least I have fun with it
Comedy is fine :)
I work in a company where our ‘customers’ are from the same company. So, it makes little sense to fuck over our customers.
They do want to do things with GenAI now, and while I have no personal interest in them, nor think it’s a terribly great strategic decision to go all-in with that, I don’t have to care. My company can fuck itself over, that’s fine by me. And well, while I prefer to and am significantly more efficient, if I work with tools that I care to use privately, at some point, it is a job and if you pay stupid amounts of money for me to learn that on the job, then so be it.deleted by creator
This is a very appealing line for me to hear. I will be digging into this to see how impossible the gate of entry is
deleted by creator
It sounds like youre helping making the world a worse place.
Oh man I know how you feel. You need to find a balance. You don’t have to work 5-7 days a week to live. As a skilled worker you can survive from 4 days or less. Especially if you can remote and live in a cheap place. You can spend your other work days on whatever you find to be valuable. I dunno works for me.
I do IT for a non profit. Luckily, it’s one that is funded by membership dues so I don’t have to fundraise, which includes a ton of advertising and the like. True, I’m not making bank like a lot of folks in IT. But my peace of mind is intact. I make a good living, and feel good about what I do. Jobs like mine are out there, but when you’re a student all you hear about is the vast amount of money you can make quickly by selling your soul to amazon or whoever. If you keep at it, there is a path in IT that does not include losing sight of your values. Good luck!!
Sammeee except data analyst (by title, I guess) working in local healthcare. I’m under the impression I could make bank by selling out but I’m quite happy with 70k, a pension, and my dignity.
It’s all bullshit, and you’ve hit the nail on the head.
The only way out is through each other: change your workplace to be less bullshit. Demand dignity. Maybe bring your friends and make a co-op.
Disengage, mostly.
I’m good at tech stuff but I hate 99% of the work that I’m good at, so i just treat it as the revenue source that it is and try not to think about it too much.
If things in my life had gone differently I may have had to mine coal somewhere to get my paycheck, so overall it isn’t that bad.
The idea of getting paid to do stuff I enjoy is buried there with the rest of my youth delusions.
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Your attitude is correct, don’t support enshittification and don’t do anything you’re not comfortable doing
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Don’t replace cursewords with stupid characters, this is Lemmy.
- Yes, but also, I do want to have a job because I want to make a positive impact. It’s too easy to become a NEET and be negative at everything.
- I understand your concern. Next time, I’ll go either no symbols or express my opinion without swearwords (because they are not pleasant, at least for me).
EDIT: but mainstream web is really that bad.
There are tons of IT jobs for more ethical companies where you can feel good about what you are working on.
Stay away from large, publicly traded companies, and companies whose user isn’t the paying customer.
Startups, companies that are wholly privately owned (often by an individual into philanthropy or at least mostly concerned with their image and legacy), or those usually in smaller more focused markets are where the ethical jobs tend to be.
You guys are doing that in your interviews, right? Learning about the product, the company, its moral philosophy? Not just selling out to the highest paying job?.. Right?
Maybe that’s too much for some people. People do get squeezed and get desperate.
I usually try for the money if I see a job I feel will help utilise my skills.
I’m part SRE/system admin though, which means I don’t care at all about the software that runs on top of the infra I handle. Except when I do need to care, and I try to minimise such interactions. For example: I’d like to work for a company that operates/uses a CDN heavily, because that’s the kind of environment where the SRE mindset really shines. I don’t care if Netflix is failing in the current market and their management is evil as long as I’m working on the SRE side. Of course, this is different from Devs whi are likely more hands-on with the product itself.
I’ll be honest, I do research companies and aim for ethical employers and all that, but
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the job market is fucked, techies come a dime a dozen nowadays - anything you apply to the competition is fucking fierce so you can’t really afford to be picky
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I care about how ethical my employer is, but not enough to be chocked in debt or live paycheck to paycheck without affording a single luxury in my life. I’m talking “eating out once per week” here, not yachts.
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Local 👏 non 👏 profits (or govt)
I feel like those options are always immediately written off. It is possible to find good to great opportunities. Plenty of shit ones too of course but it’s worth a look.
It feels good to work somewhere whose purpose is to support the community I live in.
express my opinion without swearwords (because they are not pleasant, at least for me).
I know this is completely beside the point, but one thing that just really activates my almonds for absolutely no reason is people “censoring” a swear word by replacing a couple of letters and then acting like they didn’t swear.
Switching out one letter doesn’t make it any less swearing (and since when is “porn” a swear word?), everybody knows what you wrote and you know what you wrote. If you think swearing is bad then don’t fucking do it, but don’t swear and then pretend you didn’t just because you hid a letter.
It’s just as silly as using darn or frick, except they have none of the punch which is the purpose of swear words, ya know?
I use those in some situations that don’t call for a full-fledged swear, minor irritations like missing a metro when I’m not in any hurry.
It’s good to have an escalation ladder for swearing 😀 don’t have to go straight for the nuclear option
Thats a good point!
You can just fucking cuss here.
Fuck yeah!
Fuckin’ oath! Swearing is the shit!
Everything is better with fuck!
They’re not supposed to be pleasant. Swear words are part of your evolved self defense system, and generally speaking any time that’s active you won’t feel good.
I thought, I was having text encoding issues for a hot second there…
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