President Joe Biden was asked by a reporter in Israel on Wednesday what made him confident that the Israelis weren’t behind the explosion that killed hundreds at a Gaza hospital on Tuesday.
Biden responded that it was “the data I was shown by my Defense Department.”
Two U.S. officials told ABC News the Pentagon independently concluded the Gaza hospital blast was likely caused by an errant Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket that fell short of its target.
Ah yes. Just like Iraq had WMDs.
Sure is crazy how, of all the places a rocket misfire could have landed, it struck a place guaranteed to be full of people. A baptist hospital, no less, which would definitely drive up religious tensions in the area if it turned out it was bombed by HAMAS. Israel couldn’t have hoped for a more favorable outcome, how fortunate.
Just like Iraq had WMDs.
This line really doesn’t mean that much anymore after critics used it to say the claims that Russia was going to invade Ukraine were untrue.
Healthy skepticism is warranted, but let’s not use arguments that have become hollow.
It’s not a hollow argument, the US has a long history of blatantly lying for political reasons. And the Iraq lie resulted in the US murdering 1 million+ Iraqis, acting like it’s irrelevant because you don’t want to hear criticism of the US is a bullshit response.
And people repeatedly said this about the US claiming Russia was going to invade Ukraine. How did that go?
What makes you think this is the only rocket that misfired? We just wouldn’t hear about one that crashed into an empty piece of desert.
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My dude, HAMAS rockets are barely capable of doing property damage, let alone killing hundreds of people. You expect me to believe that one of these things broke apart mid flight in the perfect fucking way to strike at the fuel supply and set it off in the middle of a huge building full of people? That this practically Rube Goldbergian chain of events is the more likely explanation? One of us is definitely spreading misinformation here but I don’t think it’s me.
if you look at the images there is hardly any property damage. there is no crater. there are a few busted windows and some charred cars. not an expert but it wasnt some kind of WMD. and im not entirely sold on the 500 mark either.
its not gymnastics. israel is flattening gaza with bombs and has attacked “safe” escape routes. im not denying that. but hamas also has awful equipment and little military training, misfires are expected.
I think it’s at least as plausible an explanation as Israel deciding to piss away the most goodwill it’s had in decades by bombing a hospital parking lot for absolutely no reason other than to kill some civilians.
When they’re firing thousands of these things? I think it’s possible.
I don’t have a dog in this fight. It’s a religious war that will go on until long past my years here.
It hit a parking lot at the hospital, not the actual building. Here’s an Initial analysis that was posted elsewhere on Lemmy.
What do you mean “our cause”?
Isn’t truth the cause, and to stop the killing of ANY civilians? And to stop the needless killing on all sides….
Oh you sweet summer child, I wish.
I have no idea what you’re asking. Yes I would love if people stopped this madness and gave palestinians their homeland back. what does that have to do with facing the facts of one tragedy? friendly fire happens.
I’m no politician but that suggestion is even more untenable than the zionists here
Israel couldn’t have hoped for a more favorable outcome, how fortunate.
They could have done damage to the hospital proper, that would have been more favorable in this escalation plot you nailed down. Why another escalation is needed after raids are already commencing, I dunno, the plot is just so dastardly. The anti-israel riots after this event are undoubtedly going to be used by Israel to give carte blanche to start striking Gaza! Oh wait, that was already happening. A plan so good it is accomplished before it starts.
Also the density of Gaza would make it more probable than not that hamas/Islamic jihad bombs would land in population dense spots when they land short. You don’t hear about the IJ bombs that didn’t land in hospital parking lots, and assuming otherwise would be rife with logical fallacies.
All in all these events gave Israel nothing that they didn’t already have, and stalled Arab meetings to boot. IJ got a pr coup from uncritical media, and the whole event has been muddied into useless circles.
This reads like: “we investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong”…
Yeah, the CIA famously never lies about this stuff on behalf of their country’s military interests!
Yeah, I don’t think so.
You can think whatever you like, but that means you either have to ignore all the evidence indicating that you’re wrong, or you have to have additional evidence to prove you’re right. You not liking something doesn’t count as evidence.
Firstly, there is plenty of evidence that counters the claim. Secondly, your willingness to believe the US security state at its word is evidence in itself of how many of you people are susceptible to propaganda.
I reached independently the same conclusion before these news sites which you can verify by going thru my post history. This is not me taking their word for it. They’re just confirming my prior analysis.
If you have evidence to the contrary I’m interested in seeing it.
Could you share your insights on how you made your conclusion?
You can find the video/picture evidence in my comment history from few days ago.
There’s videos from several different angles showing a rocket salvo being fired from Gaza towards Israel where you can see the explosion at the hospital. It was most likely a malfunctioning unguided rocket from fired by Hamas. The bombs Israel is using are much bigger and guided meaning if they had targeted the hospital they would’ve also hit the hospital and there would be nothing left of it. Now all we have is few burnt cars on a parking lot where the rocket hit with no even visible crater on the ground. That damage perfectly matches the kind of damage caused by their mostly home-made rockets.
Then there’s also the initial claims about “leveled hospital building” and “500 people dead” but recent aerial images shows the hospital still very much intact. Also intentionally targeting a hospital while under immense scrutiny from international media doesn’t seems like the smartest thing to do.
Okay, I have seen some compiled sources that show that israyel is continuously changing their narrative. That’s the only evidence I have.
Well that is suspicious, I’ll admit that. However I doubt the advisor for prime minister has real time access to information about military operations so it’s most likely that his comments on it are based on news/social media sources that later turned out to be incorrect.
So far, there appears to be no conclusive evidence to determine who was behind the second blast, the one that hit al-Ahli hospital. A number of organisations have suggested that the relatively small crater left by the attack appears incompatible with weapons habitually launched by Israel.
Marc Garlasco, a military adviser at the PAX Protection of Civilians team, noted the impact point did not appear to be consistent with the 500, 1000 or 2000-pound bombs used in Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAMs) used by Israel, according to the Bellingcat report.
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You don’t need counter -evidence if you recognize the source as unreliable and biased, which it is.
The fact that you choose to take the US government at face value doesn’t mean anyone else has to.
I don’t understand people who do that, to be honest.
They have repeatedly lied to their own citizens about health and safety. There are multiple channels dedicated to talking about the superfund sites within the US. Most of the time, the people who lived in these horribly toxic areas were lied to by the government, and were told that they were safe. It has led to a large number of injuries, deaths, and deformities. The government regularly refused to acknowledge the harm until it was way to late to stop the people from being afflicted. I would never fully trust someone who allowed children to play in lead dust, and I especially wouldn’t trust someone who told them it was safe to do so.
I know my country’s government wouldn’t be much better to trust at face value, realistically. So, I don’t.
Historically, blindly trusting a government can turn out very badly. The people in office are human, so it only makes sense that some of them may be corrupt.
Trust the US intelligence and defense capabilities bro. They never fake data or mislead the public. This is not like the time in the past when they fake information to justify foreign policies.
They’re lying, I mean the US. Nothing new here.
This is the part where you show the receipts…
This is like a child demanding proof Santa isn’t real…
The person making a serious claim like that holds the burden of proof.
And yet Israel has shown none…
I mean. Fuck both. But fuck Hamas more.
I’ll drink to that.
Nah, fuck both is enough. I will never support jihadists and I will never support apartheid states.
you mean the hospital parking lot?
For the reference, this is about 500 people:
Some radical estimations talked of -1000 deaths. This is 1000 people:
Both of those estimates come from Hamas sources (well the 1000 people one IDK where you got that from).
JFC people you can criticize Israel without gobbling up a terrorist organization’s fat propaganda dick. For now we just have no way to know how many people died in that hospital. Find another war crime to criticize Israel for, they’re not that hard to come by.
You don’t get it. This is to show how ridiculous 500 people claim is. Was the parking lot full of clown cars? If not, 500 claim is pretty much self evident fake news, let alone a thousand.
Ooh gotcha. Unfortunately I’ve read some wild conspiracy theories about this in the last few days so I immediately thought this was more of the same… sorry lol
I get that. It’s one thing to blame Israel for bombing civilian targets but those Hamas apologists are mental gymnastics Olympians.
Yeah if they’d said a dozen people died I’d believe it. That crater looked like a stick of TNT went up, not a 2000 pound bomb.
If it has exploded directly overhead in the center of 500 people packed like sardines I don’t think it could have killed more than a couple dozen.
Yeah, the hospital wasn’t filled with civilians hurt/running away from bombings after Israel told them to run away because they’re gonna bomb them again.
No way it would have had +500 humans in there.
But the hospital wasn’t hit, the parking lot was.
The parking loot is a part of the hospital.
Does it seem out of this world to you that there would be +500 humans in the parking lot of a hospital in a crisis like this?
Yes, that might be the case under the current circumstances. The above picture helped to imagine what 500 people look like crammed squarely in a space. I doubt the 500 hypothetical people resting in the parking lot were placed more tightly than that.
Next, look at pictures of the detonation crater, which has the size of a sewer manhole. Imagine that explosion going off in the middle of the audience of 500 people. Would they all die from that? The sheer amount of body mass and flesh would shield the people in rows 20+ from the explosion.
I bet you couldn’t kill 500 people with whatever exploded there, if you tied them directly onto the bomb, or rocket, or whatever. Is there any precedent of a terrorist attack or military strike or anything which killed that many people with a similarly small explosion?
You can’t imagine people running away from being bombed being more tightly packed than people attending a conference?
I’m sure that some valets manage to get “parking loot”
Are you making fun of this tragedy?
Yes, it seems absolutely impossible. 500 people is a massive number.
You have never seen a parking lot as big as the conference in your image?
You can’t possibly imaging 500 hundred humans running from being bombed staying together in a parking lot of a hospital that is smaller than the conference in your images? You can’t imagine that at all?
Man I can’t wait 60 years for the DoD or CIA to declassify these documents that show otherwise.
Seriously you should check out some of the stuff the CIA has declassified. Some insane involvement and coverups of so many incidents, wars, overthrows, uprisiings, etc.
I even learned Chuck Yeager had his personal beechcraft bombed by the IAF, and he was so pissed that he listed it as a PAF loss in his 1971 war report lol. He also confirmed PAF’s 3:1 k/d, and interviewed all the captured IAF pilots.
All back when Nixon was running the show, so who knows what other stuff went down.
Pentagon. The security agency of the country vetoing ceasefire agreement in the UN security council, in favour of Israel attacks.
Independently of whom, exactly?
We have investigated ourselves and found nothing suspicious.
ITT: I don’t need evidence I get my information straight out of the Xitter
Yeah all that evidence they have put forward to support this claim… But the US defense department would never lie right?
I get the cynicism, but you have to trust someone. The DOD for all its faults has vastly more credibility than Hamas.
It’s more that from what I’ve seen that’s pubmically available and both sides reactions to the incident I’m inclined to believe it was Israel.
Ah, if the CIA says it’s true, I’m sure they’re neutral and definitely not trying to push an agenda. The CIA famously never lies about the military capabilities of organisations against US interests.
Seriously, you all fucking believe this? Shame on you all for your lack of pattern recognition skills.
The CIA isn’t part of the Pentagon
And you were born yesterday
I don’t consider the Pentagon to be a reliable source for information when they have a vested interest in the conflict. Remember when they said Saddam Hussain had “weapons of mass destruction” which was used to justify the Iraq invasion? Well there never were any. The Pentagon manufactured that disinformation, and media parroted it like loyal puppets.
What vested interest does the DoD have in this conflict?
Same as any other conflict… maintain the interests of US govt. and by extension rich oligarchs who have the house and Senate in their pockets.
The US State Department has a long-standing strong alliance with the Israelis. Billions of dollars of weaponry is sold to the Israeli military yearly, with a direct profit for the US defense industry.
Israeli airstrikes killing civilians hasn’t stopped weapon sales before, so why would the pentagon lie about this one instance?
Yeah why are people believing this? I’m sure someone will quietly peddle it back just like they did with the “40 beheaded babies” lie. This is blatant information warfare.
If anyone made it as far as the third sentence in the article, they might notice that “Islamic Jihad” in the title refers to “Palestinian Islamic Jihad”.
They’re not blaming Hamas for this incident. PIJ is a separate organisation.
The problem I have with this narrative isn’t who dropped the bomb. Tbh they’re probably right it was a Palestinian missile. It’s the sheer audacity for all these western countries to be shocked and say let’s figure this out, as Israel just dropped like 6000 bombs in 6 days. They’re worried about one bomb but not the 6000 others, cause ya know, those were killing only Hamas and not injured people in a hospital /s.
While the Muslim world looks on in horror at more bombing in a conflict that has been going on for decades, the western world is focused on insignificant details. Who carried out what attack. Who dropped what bomb. Which act is more morally reprehensible. None of this solves the problem of a displaced people. Only the US can pressure Israel to accept a two state solution. That’s the only peaceful solution possible for this conflict imo. The other solution is to wipe out Gaza and the West Bank and everyday we’re getting closer to that.
I don’t know, most of the papers in the UK led with a front page item on how Israel had killed 500 people by bombing a hospital. So if that wasn’t actually true, it’s quite important.
I doubt that Rishi Sunak speak correctly.
This is the most global headline nơw.
If you have a little deep heart inside, you can think twice. See what difference between two sides. Who is support Israel, the world’s most powerful militaries that every country don’t want take risk to war with. Then, who is support Palestine. There is many country but still behind.
The latest statistics on the Israel-Palestine conflict as of October 19, 2023, are as follows:
Gaza: Killed: At least 3,478 Injured: Over 12,065 Occupied West Bank: Killed: At least 69 Injured: More than 1,300 Israel: Killed: At least 1,403 Injured: At least 3,800
These figures have been reported by the Palestinian health ministry, Palestine Red Crescent Society, and Israeli Medical Services. Please note that these numbers are subject to change as the situation evolves.
And what the trembling moments 1 child killed in Gaza every hour. Precisely more than that. 😥
When 12 of The Council drafted a statement calling for a ceasefire on Wednesday, but the statement was vetoed by the US. WHAT THE F***
Millions of lives hang in the balance, including the 2.3 million civilians half of whom are children in Gaza civilians in Israel, and Jews and Muslims around the world.
I can write more but let just world knows who is the really war criminal.
You don’t have to be Muslim to support Palestine 🇵🇸 … you just have to be HUMAN … 😥
what can third parties do to reduce or eliminate Hamas’s hold on Palestine?
I’m all for Palestinian rights, and the constant encroachment of fundamentalist settlements is a war crime that went unpunished for Israel - but Hamas’s charter is explicit, there’s no middle ground or two state solution, just the destruction of Israel.
So how can third parties help the Palestinians in the one way that would make a significant difference in their QOL and interactions with Israel?
Honest question.
You’re not going to get any magical solution because Israel is a country founded on stolen land by entitled religious extremists. People always leave that part out when they talk about this situation.
You’re not going to get any magical solution
and yet they all believe in their invisible friends and holy books so much… ironic that.
Israel is a country founded on stolen land by entitled religious extremists. People always leave that part out when they talk about this situation.
funny how you’re leaving out the near extermination of their people and world recognition of their state, kinda glossing over most of history even. guess you decided to leave those parts out too. It’s almost as if both sides are completely full of shit.
Huh.
stop funding Israel?
so make Israel an easier target for the many countries that agree with Hamas and think it should be destroyed?
pfft. did you even read the question? How the fuck does that stop Hamas, if anything it would embolden them. How does that help Palestinians wanting a future without a genocidal fuckwit club running their country?
how can we help Palestine?
no not like that
you’ve yet to suggest anything practical or realistic. or even remotely helpful to anyone but hamas.
put it together dipshit, just helping hamas doesn’t improve Palestinian lives. For once in your life stop being a lazy sack and use your fucking brains.
You also can support Palestinian people and genuinely want their liberation, but have zero love for Hamas or IJ.
Okay well I’m not sure what most of this says, and I know better than to engage in Israel-Palestine discourse online.
People “fighting for their homeland” rarely just give up. And you’ve got two sides who earnestly believe they’re doing just that.
There’s no peace here. Northern Ireland managed it, but the body counts and level of violence aren’t even remotely comparable. It took Israel and Palestine about a week to blow through what The Troubles took 40 years to kill.
Each time it kicks off we in the West wonder how we could solve it. We can’t. It’s not our problem to fix. We certainly had a hand in making it but it’s an impossible tangle of blood, bodies and beliefs that nobody can undo.
The world’s media looks on but we’re mostly just rubbernecking. Few of us have any skin in the game. Takes our mind off our own shit countries I suppose.
In fairness, most of the people in Gaza have been born and raised in an era where the strip is their homeland. They’ve never experienced a settlement, they’ve been ruled by Palestinians their whole lives and the borders were the same as the 1967 ones.
Yeah it’s so fair that they get to live in an open air prison that’s been under blockade for 20 years. You make it sound like Gaza is a functioning country.
An objectively ineffective blockade based on the amount of rocket fire coming out of Gaza.
Even now, my brain won’t ever wrap its head around modern countries like Ireland and N. Ireland feeling the need for things like “peace walls” between neighbors.
Your comment sums up a lot of my feelings: a true peace can’t be forced from the outside. It’s way too complicated and emotional for simplistic shit. And you can see it in the comments around here too. Everyone’s wrapped up in intense anger, blame, and reciting the litany of past horrors as justification for new ones.
Also worth saying that the two sides in Northern Ireland, although originally sundered on the basis of sectarian religion, still shared a suite of cultural commonalities inasmuch as they were all basically from Ireland and the British Isles and had similarly bad teeth, cock-eyed inbred ugliness together with a generalized dislike of anyone perceived as an outsider, but.
There is no two sides. One foreign people wanted another people’s land, and they used some past ancestry / religious fanaticism / racism to commit atrocities in the process of stealing the land.
Burying the Nakba: How Israel Systematically Hides Evidence of 1948 Expulsion of Arabs
Classified Docs Reveal Massacres of Palestinians in '48 – and What Israeli Leaders Knew
When former IDF soldiers and Holocaust survivors take a firm anti-Zionist stance, it’s probably because the Zionist side is shit.
Breaking the Silence is also an Israeli organization composed of IDF veterans giving testimonies such as the IDF using ambulances to conceal combatants or using human shields.
You will not achieve peace by totally dismissing one party at the table. You have not proposed any solutions or even a path to a solution.
You have only encouraged more violence by pointing fingers.
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Or, you know, a solution that isn’t imposed by western colonialists, maybe? But by the sovereign people that inhabit the region?
https://www.youtube.com/live/Iir51O3JMqc
Otherwise, I agree with everything you said.
It really doesn’t matter what you call them or how you feel about it, Israel is in the position to call the shots and the US is their most influential ally on this. Israel isn’t going to magically go the peaceful route without external pressure, and you have to be fucking joking to think they care what Palestinians care.
what makes you think anything would change if nobody did anything? of course there needs to be an external pressure to change something about the situation. otherwise israel will just keep on decimating palestine population and it will end with a singular state. is that what you want?
I added an Al Jazeera video argument of a single state. It is not a defense of the zionist fundamentalist terrorists state.
It’s a defense of a multi ethnic state, run by the people for the people.
If nobody did anything maybe in 50 years the social indexes may improve by collective work of the people that live there, and know the right priorities, like Vietnam is recovering after the US simply stopped bombing the shit out of that land.
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It’s almost like they went through two attempts to end their people in a twenty-ish year period of time.
The western world is focused on insignificant details. Who carried out what attack. Who dropped what bomb. Which act is more morally reprehensible. None of this solves the problem of a displaced people
Misinformation on the scale of “a building was destroyed that clearly is still intact” deserves focus. If they’ll lie about shit that can be confirmed with a tiny bit of research, what else is getting exaggerated?
This right here. Hamas should have just owner up to it, Israel was already doing a good job of damaging its intervention, all the hospital issue has done is shift a lot of the protests and discussions onto a very shaky platform surrounding it, which will just disengage people who would have otherwise criticized it and make those still protesting because of it more radicalized into fictional narratives. Hamas, once again, has played itself at the cost of Palestinian lives, this time by giving Israel an excuse to gaslight what they are doing with the presence of a false narrative.
A two-state-solution doesn’t work in part because extremist Muslim groups want the are to be purely Muslim. They would continue to attack Israel with terror tactics, Like they did from the start. What is your solution to that?
Swap Muslim with Jewish and Israel with Palestine and it’s the same problem… to be clear I think both are true but it’s kinda weird to single one out.
I single them out because the extremist Muslim groups on Palestinian side have openly admitted, repeatedly, that the goal ist to exterminate all Jews from the area and make it a pure Muslim country.
If you have some sources that show the same was said from Israeli side about Palestine, please show me. Because what I see in this conflict is not as simple as people like to make it out to be. It’s not just evil colonizers trying to snag land from a victim country that wants a two-state-solution.
So not a defense of Hamas but because you ask. Here are a few news articles demonstrating genocidal action by Israeli government or calls for genocide by political/religious leaders in Israel. In addition there was a real chance of a two state solution with the Olso Accords but they were never completed with the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin in 1995 by hard right Israelis opsed to any peace agreement.
I am sure that there are plenty more examples, they tend to just be not as widely reported. Also because someone is going to say something. Both the wide spread killing or the wide spread displacement of the group of people is genocide.
https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14836.doc.htm
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-60197918
The Facebook post from the article with with translation below(Google translate)
https://www.facebook.com/MFeiglin/posts/695450140534104
in her in honor of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu Mr. Prime Minister It has just become known that Hamas took advantage of the ceasefire to kidnap an officer. It turns out that this sale is not going to end so soon. The failures of the operation were inherent in it from the beginning because: A - He does not have a correct and clear goal. B - There is no proper moral envelope that supports our soldiers. What is required now is to realize that Oslo is over, that this is our country - only our country, including Gaza! There are no two countries and no two peoples - there is only one country for one people. As a result of this internalization, a deep and fundamental strategic change is required - both in the definition of the enemy, both in the definition of the mission, both in the definition of the strategic target and of course - in the definition of the correct and necessary fighting ethics. 1 - Defining the enemy The strategic enemy is radical Arab Islam in all its metastases from Iran to Gaza, which seeks to eliminate all of Israel. The enemy in sight is Hamas. (Not the tunnels, not the rockets - Hamas) 2 - Defining the task: The occupation of the entire strip and the elimination of all the fighting forces and their supporters. 3 - Defining the strategic goal: turn Gaza into Jaffa. A flourishing Israeli city with a minimum of hostile citizens. 4 - Definition of fighting ethics: “Woe to the wicked and woe to his neighbor” In light of these four points, Israel must immediately carry out the following actions: A - The IDF will define open areas on the Sinai border and close to the sea where the civilian population will be concentrated - away from the built-up area and the launch and tunnel areas. Tent camps will be set up in these areas until relevant immigration targets are located. The supply of electricity and water to areas that were inhabited will be cut off. B - The areas that were populated will be bombarded with maximum firepower. All civilian and military Hamas facilities, means of communication and logistics - will be completely destroyed. C - The IDF will cut the strip lengthwise and wide, greatly expand the axes, take control of controlled areas and destroy the nests of resistance if any remain. D - Israel will begin locating countries and immigration quotas for Gaza refugees. Those interested in immigrating will receive a generous financial aid package and will arrive in the receiving countries with significant financial capacity. E - Those who insist on staying and prove that they have no connection to Hamas, will be required to publicly sign a declaration of loyalty to Israel and will receive a blue identity card similar to that of East Jerusalem Arabs. And - with the end of the fighting, the Israeli law will be applied in the entire strip, the deportees of Gush Katif will be invited to return to their settlements and the city of Gaza and its daughters will be built as Israeli tourist and commercial cities for all intents and purposes. Mr. Prime Minister! This is a moment of fateful decision in the days of the State of Israel. All enemy factions, from Iran and Hezbollah to Daesh and the Muslim Brotherhood - are now rubbing their hands with pleasure and preparing themselves for the next round. I warn you that any result that is less than what is defined here means encouraging the continuation of the offensive against Israel. Only if Hezbollah understands how Hamas was treated in the south, will it refrain from launching its 100,000 missiles - from the north. I urge you to adopt the strategy suggested here. I have no doubt that like me, the entire nation of Israel will overwhelmingly stand to your right - if you only dare. With great respect and appreciation Moshe Feigli
Did you read those articles? The first two don’t address or hint at genocidal plans from Israel against the ethnic group “Palestinian” at all. The third article is about one (!) extremist politician who’s party didn’t even get into the parliament because they didn’t have enough votes. That actually goes against your notion that Israels goal is a genocide against Palestinians.
This is not about disputing war crimes from Israel. It’s specifically about the question whether or not Israel wants an ethnical cleansing on Palestinians. And that this is the reason for the actions from their side.
Not sure what you want? Are you hoping that Bebe put at a press release where he details the plan to commit genocide? That politician is a member of the ruling Likud party and yes he is extreme but that just means he is more likely to say the quiet part out loud.
Article 2 of the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide details what the international definition of genocide is. It going to be very hard to find new or governments using the word. Because it means that then one needs to act on it or there is a implied complicity to the genocide. So you just need to ask your self do these actions rise to genocide? Because you wouldn’t hear western news or politicians saying regardless of how bad it gets.
New article about the Center for Constitutional Rights using the word genocide. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ccr-accuses-israel-of-genocide-against-palestinians-alleges-us-complicity/ar-AA1ivib9
Article 2 of the Convention defines genocide as
… any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;© Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
— Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2[7]
Yeah, the people of Palestine haven’t exactly been pushing for a two state solution and they back/vote in groups that want to exterminate the jews and enforce Sharia law wherever they can.
Even if Israel wanted a two state solution they’re not going to get it. Not until Palestinians can come up with a functional government that isn’t made up of a group that has genocide as one of their stated political goals.
And I mean actual genocide, the attempt to end a genetic lineage through violence, not the “genocide” of lemmy which essentially just means “cultural disruption/assimilation”, a widening of definition that allows them to pretend that it’s equal on both sides cause “they’re both committing genocide!”
It’s kind of funny to me listening to people who advocate for separate states. I mean, sure, do it. But don’t expect that to stop religious zealots from firing peace rockets at each other.
It won’t stop anything, a two state solution is a joke.
The best case scenario now is for Palestinians to assimilate into other Muslim countries, it’s not ideal but it’s probably the way fewest people will die.
Sorry man, it’s not a “Lemmy” definition, that’s literally a type of genocide as defined by the UN.
If the word you choose to describe forced cultural assimilation and mass slaughter for the intended purpose of annihilating an entire group of people based on their race are the same, your definition is useless.
That’s like calling a playground fight between kids attempted murder, it makes the word worthless when you water it down to mean any violence at all.
Yes, the definition is vague: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
- Killing members of the group;
- Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
- Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
- Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
- Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
It hinges on “intent”, which needs to be inferred and interpreted. It includes terms like “in whole or in part”, and does not specify how many “members of the group” are the lower limit.
However, the main point of R0cket_M00se still stands. There is a significant width in the spectrum of acts and intents which can be classified as genocide, with Hamas proudly on the upper end.
There isn’t a solution and just to be clear proto Israelis take part in a civilian bombing campaign inside of mandatory Palestine because they also do not believe any other religion should exist.
If you’re going to paint a picture don’t just throw shade at one when both deserve it.
How do you explain 20 % of Israel citizens being Palestinian, when Israel supposedly want Palestinians to not exist?
Concessions for image, apparently it’s fairly effective given your response.
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Part of the problem is that Hamas won’t accept a two state solution, either. The people in power on both sides have made it clear that they want the other eradicated. If Hamas and the Israeli government were to disappear then maybe that could happen, but even then there is so much deep rooted hatred amongst those populations for them to realistically live in relative peace while being in such close proximity to each other.
I don’t honestly know of a great solution besides Israel replacing their government, and the ultra nationalistic conservative half of the Gaza strip moving out, or vice versa.
The reason for the focus is that it was deliberately being used in a disinformation campaign. Were that not the case, I think you’re right that it would have faded into the background noise as just one bomb among 6000 others.
I like your take. Most actors involved in this conflict have tunnel vision and that will only lead to more violence.
Even some victims of Hamas’ violence are calling on TV for reflection instead of seeking revenge. Revenge only feeds a never-ending cycle of violence with no end in sight. Israel’s Government will have to own up to having allowed/encouraged Hamas with the single purpose of derailing two-state efforts and that has failed horribly.
The video seems pretty clear tbh. An aircraft dropping bombs would be quite loud, and a missile would be visible.
Which video was this?
