Sarah Katz, 21, had a heart condition and was not aware of the drink’s caffeine content, which exceeded that of cans of Red Bull and Monster energy drinks combined, according to a legal filing
The 30 oz has 390mg of caffeine! That’s four regular cups of coffee. I’m a big guy, and that would mess me up.
Reporting in after having just come from Panera due to this article. Didn’t read article, and it might be click bait or might not. I do know that the drink in question is slapped right beside all the typical juices and sodas, and the label says “contains as much as our dark roast coffee” then below that, even less obvious it gives serving sizes & caffeine amounts. Call me crazy, but I doubt your average consumer is going to consider just how much caffeine might be in LEMONADE.
Panera is definitely losing this one. It could even be argued that they chose a product with that much caffeine and to not really advertise it based on the amounts of caffeine of the 30oz literally being a hair’s width away from the potential danger threshold.
Just looking at the photo in the article, it looks clear to me how much caffeine is in it:
Unclear if that’s a “before” or “after” photo though.
Needs to be bigger and brighter imo. It looks like standard nutrition info which I omits never look at.
To be fair, the average person is probably not going to really know how much caffeine is a lot of caffeine if you just give them the number, and the fact that people usually drink higher volumes of lemonade than dark coffee might lead to confusion as well. Plus, people don’t generally expect caffeine in lemonade, so it’s easy to imagine someone just going for the big flavor label and just figuring the smaller stuff is just nutrition labels and ignoring it.
I’m not really sure the best way to label this, it doesn’t seem like a great product idea at all tbh, but given the combination of potentially dangerous amounts of caffeine and it being a product one wouldn’t normally expect to contain any, I’d think that the labelling should be set up in a way as to be impossible to make assumptions about or ignore. Like, make it as big as the flavor label, in a box of a different color usually used for warnings like red or bright orange or something, and mention that the quantity of caffeine involved can be dangerous to those sensitive in addition to just the number.
I mean, the label already says “has as much caffeine as coffee”. Short of only selling caffeine at a dispensary with giant warnings, I’m not sure there’s any action that could or should be taken.
I think the trick is, yeah, on an ounce by ounce basis, as much caffeine as coffee, but people also aren’t drinking coffee 30 ounces at a time.
Point of comparison here, a caffeine pill like NoDoze is 200mg and the suggested dose is 1 every 3-4 hours.
The 30 ounces here is about the same as 2 caffeine pills.
on an ounce by ounce basis, as much caffeine as coffee
Much less caffeine than the typical coffee most of us drink.
but people also aren’t drinking coffee 30 ounces at a time
This lemonade has less caffeine than a Dunkin Large Iced Coffee, one of the most popular drinks in my area. Yeah, they are drinking coffee 20 oz at a time, which is all it takes to hit the same caffeine as 30oz of this lemonade.
Point of comparison here, a caffeine pill like NoDoze is 200mg and the suggested dose is 1 every 3-4 hours.
Counterpoint of comparison, the USDA rates 400mg as the healthy limit for daily intake. I could have a large charged lemonade every day and be comfortably under the “low-risk” line. And as I said elsewhere,
The 30 ounces here is about the same as 2 caffeine pills.
And a joint around here has the same active ingredient as about 20 THC pills. Just because something is in pill form doesn’t mean it’s a high dosage.
…also, I’d like to note that NoDoze suggests a dosage that hits over 800mg of caffeine a day, about three of these drinks. Also, the same dosage as a pot of coffee that MANY Americans drink every. single. morning.
As a caffeine fiend and energy drink afficianado, holy fucking shit that an obnoxious amount of caffeine in a fountain drink imo
I’m with you, this needs to be sold individually in cans not free pourable.
If you have a heart condition or generally just a high sensitivity to caffeine, it’s pretty important to know how much is a lot. The vast majority of people do not have any serious issues consuming 300mg or so of caffeine, so putting a bunch of big scary labels on this stuff just seems like overkill. For example, if you have a peanut allergy, it’s generally on you to check the allergen list in the fine print, or if you have Celiac disease, you need to either buy stuff specifically labeled gluten-free or confirm with a restaurant, manufacturer, etc.
The fact that all of their signs have not just one, but three separate indicators (“charged”, as much caffeine as coffee, and the specific caffeine amount) for anyone who might have a sensitivity is enough to show Panera’s due diligence in my opinion.
I do get your point that people wouldn’t automatically assume there’s caffeine in Panera’s random juice drinks, but caffeine is absolutely everywhere right now. I’d personally love for caffeine to be required to be listed in the nutrition label of drinks (or food that contains it) so you would know how much is in a Mountain Dew or Coke. But until that happens, I don’t see how Panera could be seen as liable in this situation.
400mg of caffeine is not potentially dangerous unless you’re one of the unlucky few people who have a heart condition. Even then, people with heart conditions aren’t necessarily dropping dead because they drank some caffeine.
How visible is that sign from the order counter? Also, visually handicapped customers would have no idea.
It’s self serve, unless it was a drive through pickup order.
https://www.dailydot.com/irl/panera-charged-lemonade-behind-counter/
In some locations it’s behind the counter. And in the picture accompanying the article it’s facing away from the customers so there’s no way to even see the sign.
America is a place of personal feeedom but not personal accountability it seems.
Do they have that information on the drive through or the app though?
Edit: Yes, it’s visible. No, I don’t think it’s a good idea. Fuck corporate Panera, sue away. If it hurts our wages we’ll just protest corporate.
Why isn’t it a good idea to sell something with typical iced coffee caffeine content to people who want that much caffeine?
That’s a super good question, it’s not clear, but it’s also not clear if that’s how she bought the drink.
If I saw that, I wouldn’t really have any idea how much 260mg of caffeine is, compared to your average espresso shot. IMHO there probably should be some kind of upper limit to the amount of caffeine you can put in a drink (or at least be forced to call it something other than ‘lemonade’).
Help me understand how much 260mg of caffeine is by comparing it to standard caffinated drinks
Searching for: caffeine content of common drinks
Generating answers for you…
Sure, I can help you with that. According to the Mayo Clinic1, the caffeine content of common drinks can vary depending on the type, brand, and brewing method. Here are some examples of how much caffeine is in different drinks, based on the average values from various sources2345:
A 12-ounce (355 mL) can of cola has about 34-44 mg of caffeine. A 12-ounce (355 mL) can of energy drink has about 71.9 mg of caffeine. An 8-ounce (237 mL) cup of brewed black coffee has about 80-150 mg of caffeine. An 8-ounce (237 mL) cup of brewed green tea has about 30 mg of caffeine. A 2-ounce (60 mL) shot of energy shot has about 215 mg of caffeine. So, if you consume 260 mg of caffeine, that is equivalent to:
About 6 to 8 cans of cola About 3 to 4 cans of energy drink About 2 to 3 cups of brewed black coffee About 9 to 10 cups of brewed green tea About one shot of energy shot I hope this helps you understand how much caffeine is in different drinks. Remember, the FDA recommends no more than 400 mg of caffeine per day for most adults. Too much caffeine can cause side effects such as insomnia, anxiety, and high blood pressure. So, drink responsibly and enjoy your caffeinated beverages in moderation. 😊
If I wanted an Ai to hallucinate up bullshit I’d ask it myself.
Why just be a stand in for AI? What do you bring to the conversation other than typing on behalf of a computer?
Just actually curious why?
Someone asked so I did it
Yeah I doubt most coffee/tea/soda drinkers could tell you how much caffeine is in their drinks. 260mg means nothing to me without a baseline
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Panera Charged Lemonade: ~100mg/250mL
Panera Dark Roast Coffee: ~100mg/250mL
Panera Light Roast Coffee: ~162mg/250mL
Truth is, typical coffee at a coffee shop blows this charged lemonade out of the water on caffeine content.
Either Panera successfully marketed it and it was a tragic mistake, or Panera’s marketing at that location was messed up and they are at fault for her not being reasonably informed that it was a fully-caffeinated beverage.
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That’s less than I thought
Most coffee has a lot higher than ~100mg/mL if we’re being honest unless it’s brewed weak or watered down with a lot of milk/cream.
No, it’s really just insane how much caffeine they put in this Panera bread lemonade.
Like seriously this is like drinking 4 energy drinks, literally more caffeine than a 5 hour energy shot and that’s at the small size. This is a horrifying amount of caffeine that they think people are drinking.
Edit: did the math because why not and drinking the 30 fl oz is like taking a 10 hour energy.
It’s about as caffeinated as an equal-size Dunkin iced coffee. It doesn’t seem insane to me. Panera has a non-coffee option for people who want to study with the cafe experience.
…which is why the sign also says it’s as much caffeine as coffee.
That part is actually what’s misleading. I don’t know anybody who gets 20 or 30 oz cups of dark roast drip coffee. 10 oz is a more reasonable size. A more useful comparison would be that one lemonade is like having two or three dark roast coffees.
I’m guessing you’re not in the US with your thoughts on drink sizes, but remember that this happened in the US.
That part is actually what’s misleading. I don’t know anybody who gets 20 or 30 oz cups of dark roast drip coffee. 10 oz is a more reasonable size
A Dunkin Large is a 20oz hot coffee or 32oz Iced Coffee, and yes you can ask for “no ice” which is common enough they finally had to make it an upcharge. They ALSO sell an XL in my area, which is a 24oz hot. A 10oz here is called a “Small” and they don’t sell many of those. Usually just to people like my 80 year old mother-in-law.
A more useful comparison would be that one lemonade is like having two or three dark roast coffees.
…except that Panera’s standard size for hot coffee is a 16oz, and the large is 20oz. And we the complaint keeps saying “dark roast” because their light roast coffee matches these lemonades for total caffeine content (384 for a large vs 390 for a 30oz lemonade).
Nothing about this drink is anywhere out of proportion of a typical coffee drink in the US.
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I feel like Panera has lost its way after JAB bought it. This wouldn’t fly before and some of their menu items now are just pure excess.
All caffinated beverages should be required to disclose their caffeine content on the packaging.
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This new trend of soda that’s made of cane sugar and natural coloring is pretty stupid. It’s still a ton of calories and acid on your teeth. At Chipotle, cava, Panera, I’ll get sparkling water out of the Sprite tap and then flavor with a dash of whatever nu soda they have.
Panera, I feel, is 100% at fault here for trying to make soda and apparently ENERGY DRINKS seem innocuous and healthy.
why does the sprite tap have sparkling water and not sprite?
Sprite is “sparkling water” plus syrup. There’s usually a second button on lemonade and lemon-lime soda which holds the syrup.
oh Ive never seen it served that way. Thanks
A lot of the fountain machines I’ve used also have a soda water secondary option on one of the drinks. There’s usually a plain water one, too.
I’ve seen plain (still) water, never sparkling water. Maybe it’s regional. Very few people in the US drink plain sparkling water.
I’ve worked at several restaurants here in the US, and they all had both sparkling and still water from the fountain
You also might be surprised by how many guests would order sparkling water
I was referring to the “soda water” as “sparkling water” per the OP. I don’t really know what the difference is tbh.
I don’t think there is a difference, though I could be wrong. Soda water is just water and carbonic acid. Sparkling water I’ve tried tasted like that plus some fruit flavouring but no sugar, so I’ve assumed that plain sparkling water is just soda water.
They’re the same thing.
But at least in some regions of the US it’s extremely unpopular. I’ve never seen a soda fountain with a button for soda/sparkling/carbonated water. The only way you get that is if one of the sodas is out of syrup.
I live in the US and get sparkling water from the beverage fountain frequently. It’s usually there as a separate little lever on one of the sodas. Maybe you just aren’t noticing it. I’ve found it to be pretty common.
I agree it may be regional. Seltzer is very popular in NYC, where I am. I once overhead flight attendants on a flight discussing how much seltzer they had to have on hand because they were headed to NYC.
If restaurants just served sparkling water or mineral water I would be way more inclined to order drinks. But nooo, we have to have a society that normalizes liquid candy and alcohol 🥴
Most do have it if they have a soda fountain. You might have to ask for it. You’re right that it’s not normalized, so you might have to ask for it, but I always served sparkling water on request, and that’s in a fairly rural town in South Dakota.
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I’ve heard people say this, but I never saw anything that would deter me. We always cleaned and sanitized the machines very well, and personally I never had a problem with the flavor
Restaurants do serve just soda/sparkling water, you just never asked for it before.
Classic sit down restaurants, yes. I’ve never seen it in a fast food restaurant.
“Do you have the button on the Sprite that leyd you get just soda water?”
“What? You want water?”
“Sparkling water, from the sprite fountain”
“So… Sprite?”
“No, I can see it from here, you know how you get water for water cups from the lemonade one? The Sprite has one of those extra buttons too.”
“I have to charge you for Sprite, you should just get a Sprite.”
“Look the line is backing up, can I just Sprite with no syrup please, I’ll pay for a soda.”
“I guess so…? I have to ask the manager.”
😫
Frankly, I’d totally count it as free like the regular water, at least if the soda fountain is self-serve.
That ”sparkling water” is still carbonic acid.
Just drink water.
Y’all need water.
I said SPARKLING water
Lol
Water. Like out the toilet?
"This new trend "
It’s not really new. It’s that the cane sugar sodas cost more to make, which means cost more to buy. You can taste the difference, but you have to actually care to be willing to pay the increased price.
Jones has always done it. Coca Cola used to release it “Mexican Coca Cola” in my area every few months at $3/bottle.
It’s newer at fast casual restaurants
Isn’t all soda essentially just sugar and food coloring?
And water.
Don’t forget the carbonic acid!
That’s just the CO2 mixed in the water
Some soda has various chemicals to trick your body into responding to sweetness, but no actual sugars
Zero sugar, extra diarreha.
extra boogers
like from the toilet?
BRAWNDO. ITS GOT WHAT PLANTS CRAVE
Any free market absolutists want to try to explain to me how situations like this should be handled?
Is this poor girl just the first “collateral damage” that allows the market to (eventually) fix itself? Is it her own fault for not being an expert on caffeinated beverages before buying the drink?
8 months ago Food Theroy did agreat video on this. It’s very appropriately titled given the unfortunate circumstances. To say this drink was caffeineted is a major understatement, it was basically four and a half monsters in one cup.
Franky, it was reckless for Panera to make and sell this drink and they absolutely earned this lawsuit. There was pently of forewarning that the abnormally high caffeine content in this was dangerous for certain groups. Hope the family wins big, nothing will bring back their loved one but this could’ve been avoided with more clear nutrientional warnings.
f u panera
So are you saying “f u” to all coffee shops? Because I can (and often do) get a standard on-menu beverage with more caffeine than these larges without a single warning on it at Dunkin Donuts.
These lemonades are at least covered in “this has THIS much caffeine in it” advertising.
Good lord. I drank like half a red bull once and felt like I was going to die… Why would anyone even want to consume that much…
I had a drop of redbull once and was raging for months. It’s strong stuff
I had one molecule of red bull once and was so hyped I flew to the moon.
I bet your arms were tired.
No, they had wings, those probably did get tired
Why is quadruple Monster even on the menu of a restaurant that is mostly famous for soup?
It’s effectively the largest size of a coffee, which is comparable to what coffee shops sell.
It was probably invented by and for BOH staff
Because they feel the need to pivot and try to extract more money and bring in other types of people by offering more options for everything. To bad it’s all garbage, and very overpriced.
Maybe I am wrong, but there is no way this place can sustain itself with the prices they charge and the drop in quality they now offer compared to early 2000’s.
They did have quality in the early 2000s, remember my grandma taking us their for their awesome bread. Sad to see it enshittify
Agreed, I stopped eating there 5-6 years ago after another shrinkflation update to their menu ruined my favorite sandwich. Haven’t missed the place.
There was one on campus at my university. I almost never ate there, but it was always pretty popular. This drink seems like it’s designed for that. Get a cup of this stuff and drink it over the course of a long day/night and it’d be fine. Mistaking it for just lemonade, or even a regular caffienated drink, is a huge mistake that should never have been able to happen. There should be clear warnings and labels.
The other thing is, these drinks are in the same dispensers, the same location, that used to have regular juices. Even assuming the signs were there, it’s set up for no one to pay attention
Also it’s mixed on-site by employees, so consistency of caffeine between batches occasions is at risk.
Considering that a fatal dose of caffeine is between 10,000-15,000 mg, I don’t think some variance in the mix is really a problem.
No? Not even with the free refills the girl who died from this was getting?
I don’t understand how it’s reckless to serve something that 99.99% of the population will never have any significant health problem with, even if they drank double or triple the amount this girl did.
At 390 mg, it’s more like 2½ Monsters. For some people (me) that’s just Tuesday
This is so saddening, I can’t imagine what her loved ones must be going through. ☹️
There used to be a product called Redline: White Heat from VPX (same people that make bang with the unhinged CEO). It had to be taken off the market because it had an amphetamine analogue in it called AMP Citrate or DMBA.
One scoop of that stuff made me feel like I was going to die. My friend who took Ritalin at the time told me it was more powerful than any other stimulant he had before.
It’s crazy to think this was openly available at health supplement stores for years before the FDA caught wind.
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so personal responsibility is not part of the discussion? if you have a heart condition you should absolutely not be consuming large volumes of highly processed sugar laden drinks - they almost always have high amounts of caffeine.
Wtf lemonade are you drinking that’s high in caffeine?
Did you read the article?
"Katz had a heart condition called long QT syndrome type 1 and avoided energy drinks at the recommendation of her doctors, according to the filing.
was advertised as a “plant-based and clean” beverage that contained as much caffeine as the restaurant’s dark roast coffee, according to photos of both the menu and beverage dispensers in the store
also contained guarana
guarana is plant based
I’ll take that as a no
I keep seeing the “personal responsibility” phrase in this thread and I feel like it’s missing the point. I suppose the thinking is “some people ruin it for everyone”, but frankly where is the corporate responsibilities? As another poster put it, why is a quadruple monster sold at a place famous for their soup? That amount of stimulus is intense for people without health conditions. Would the general public truly be losing out if Panera had this labeled as several energy drinks flavored lemonade?
The larger issue is that caffeine should be regulated to a higher degree than it is, but Panera received tons of backlash a year ago when this was debuted and ignored it. Chains this size have their meals painstakingly tested and formulated, it was reckless to treat this as just another fountain drink.
why is a quadruple monster sold at a place famous for their soup?
Let me ask the counter-question. Why is a half-strength coffee sold at a place known as a major coffee-and-study spot?
Panera as a business has often needed to ride multiple markets to survive, and the giant coffee setups they’ve had for the last 20 years when you walk in every door doesn’t scream “soup”. Have you ever heard of the Unlimited Sip Club? They sell various drinks, but the primary marketing image is a girl holding a giant iced coffee (which has at least as much caffeine as the charged lemonade). And honestly, they’ve always been fairly open about the fact almost every beverage they sell is caffeinated and there are absolutely (unlimited refill) items on the menu with more caffeine than these charged lemonades.
The only argument that IMO gives Panera any responsibility on this is the people who showed pictures of SOME Paneras where the giant" as caffeinated as our coffee" sign is hidden behind the counter. They literally lie upwards in caffeine content in their warnings (20oz of this drink is only as caffeinated as 8oz of their coffee but they say it’s the same content)
If I were an asshole lawyer, I would file a suit that they were misleading by claiming it’s as caffeinated as their coffee. In fact, I’m guessing that would be their slam-dunk defense except we all know they’ll settle because they don’t want bad press.
The larger issue is that caffeine should be regulated to a higher degree than it is
Does that mean you also want to put coffee and iced-coffee dispensers under lock and key? They have a LOT more caffeine than this drink. I’ve paid for bottomless coffee before and taken generous advantage of it. The issue was this girl had an underlying medical condition and was supposed to avoid caffeine. Period.
And their lawyers argument is that Panera doesn’t sell a dark roast coffee with 390ml total caffeine because they’re 16oz cups (with unlimited refills)
Honestly, it’s a tragedy. But Panera is only to blame if there’s information we don’t have in the article that makes them so.
Thank you, a rational take here, everyone has their pitchforks out and aren’t thinking logically about how to deal with it aside from ridiculous things like “it should be illegal!”
It is definitely a tragedy and I feel for the family and friends, however we shouldn’t be jumping to banning it. That is how we end up with a nanny state, some things need to be regulated of course and in this instance it needs to be extremely clear to customers how much caffeine they’ll be injesting.
There’s a lot of things I think are justified bans. Alcoholic energy drinks are a huge example because of the lethal way those two substances interplay on each other (a friend of mine died from a heart condition caused by having too many jaeger bombs). But energy drinks are not killing people left-and-right. And this is very probably the only death that will come from this Panera charged lemonade in its entire run, however long that is.
Even banning alcoholic energy drinks seems a bit too far, I’m generally more in favor of regulating and making warnings for those who are able to handle such things to be able to still enjoy them, rather then banning them because some have preexisting conditions or aren’t able to moderate themselves.
Definitely fair though, I wouldn’t argue strongly against limiting alcohol access in general as we as a society have normalized basically alcoholism and abusing it. I’m not sure what the right answer is on that one :/ I just generally prefer freedom to a sane extent over banning certain things.
Even banning alcoholic energy drinks seems a bit too far
For me in full understanding of how alcohol+energy drinks cause accute alcohol poisoning, I’m ok with forcing people to go through the work of combining them on their own. Nobody is saying you can’t sell red bull in a bar, only that you can’t buy a 24-pack of the stuff premixed.
My thought on banning has always been this. It’s fine to restrict a highly combined product if you allow its components. Someone mixing redbull with jaeger is thinking. Someone drinking a premade alcoholic energy drink is slightly different.
Definitely fair though, I wouldn’t argue strongly against limiting alcohol access in general as we as a society have normalized basically alcoholism and abusing it
I’m comfortable with our current limitations on alcohol, personally…at least when they’re followed.
That’s definitely a fair point!
I hope this lawsuit forces them to remove this. I’m sorry this young girl died. This isn’t the first issue they had with this drink. My husband and I were discussing it months ago. He thought it was just lemonade - sugar, water, lemons. We didn’t figure out why he was up all night. Later someone old him how much caffeine it has. We had no idea. It’s dangerous to those with high bp.
Yeah, I also wasn’t aware. I imagine there were signs, but who looks for the caffeine content of lemonade? In my case I just had a dash t flavor soda, so I didn’t notice until my kid pointed it out
Similarly, when my kids were little, I kept them away from stimulants, but who expects to have to prohibit lemonade for the caffeine hit?
I’m not going to lie when I first read the headline I thought this was probably a frivolous lawsuit but after reading the article I thought that stuff should get pulled.
I don’t think they’re legally liable after what I’ve read through and personally experienced – but I absolutely don’t think this is a frivolous lawsuit. It’s still worth merit when it comes to signage and frankly medical testing.
The biggest problem is that she drank it without knowing the heart condition. We need to have better detection and screening to make sure people know this.
From the article:
Katz had a heart condition called long QT syndrome type 1 and avoided energy drinks at the recommendation of her doctors, according to the filing.
her roommate and close friend, Victoria Rose Conroy [said,] “She was very, very vigilant about what she needed to do to keep herself safe,” Conroy said. “I guarantee if Sarah had known how much caffeine this was, she never would have touched it with a 10-foot pole.”
It’s like that McDonald’s hot coffee lawsuit. Poor lady was made a mockery of for ordering hot coffee because it sounds ridiculous at first but she had 2nd degree burns. It was recklessly hot, as was this drink recklessly produced and marketed.
If I remember correctly, her labia got fused together… Super fucked up burns.
The McDonald’s lady’s case blew up because the jury slapped McDonald’s with huge punitive damages. If she would have gotten the 10-30k she asked for initially or even just the 125k for actual damages no one would care about the case. But the 2.7 million in punitive damages just make this lawsuit seem frivolous. But she had no control over that.
And IIRC one big reason why she won was because the cups weren’t suited for holding such hot liquid. The temperature of coffee didn’t decrease in McDonald’s after the lawsuit.
There were several factors at once. Serving to a customer at 180+ is a bit high. And that particular machine was slightly overcalibrated. It was 193 degrees if I recall, not 180-190. And then, yeah, the cups are crap.
I didn’t fully appreciate our mouth’s tolerance to temperature until I was lazy the other day and used my finger to stir some tea instead of going back to the kitchen and getting a spoon.
Blazing hot for a finger, nice and refreshing for a drink
Gonna suggest it’s less simple than that. The mouth only touches a small amount of fluid at once. The temperature plummets really quickly when you sip the hot coffee.
When you stick a finger in the coffee, there’s a lot more coffee keeping the liquid contacting your finger hot. That’s why you sip hot coffee. If you do a quick dip with your finger, it won’t burn.
It’s similar to how you can accidentally brush a hot pan and not get a burn.
That is also very true
3rd degree groin burns that required grafts.
She initially asked for just 20k to cover her medical bills, and they instead offered like $800.
Also of note, that huge 2.7mil fine the jury found? Just the profits from 2 days of McDonald’s coffee sales. The judge reduced it to $650k, but even that likely wasent paid as they settled out of court at that point.
It was also discovered that McDonald’s was aware of the danger of serving their coffee that hot, yet they continued to do so because it meant they had to give fewer free refills. If you have to wait 20 minutes for your coffee to cool down before you drink it, you’re going to get less refills overall
The worst part of that is knowing they probably determined it’s cheaper to settle injuries than keep it at the temps they were supposed to. I know corporations are soulless money making machines but that always feels extra dark to think about
corporations are soulless money making machines
The worst part: Corporations are run by people, people hired to do a job, people who can say “fuck no, I’m not doing this evil thing for a couple bucks of a raise”… but eventually some people get hired who will do that evil thing, even with no raise.
Remember Google’s “don’t be evil”? Eventually they hired enough people who don’t care, that they could remove the slogan.
I thought the specific wording in their documentation was because they wanted the smell of the coffee to fill the restaurant. Did McDonald’s give refills of coffee?
They did for seniors at the time
IIRC their explanation was for take away, keeping the coffee hotter so it would last until you got home.
It also explains why the coffee is so bad. Heating coffee above a certain temp is just burning it.
It should be brewed at 195-205 F, just a bit higher than McDonalds served it.
But normally it would quickly cool down after it’s brewed. Any burning from reaching that temp is from a hot plate exceeding the temp and burning the bits of oil and soot that are in contact with the plate. Water, and I assume coffee, can’t be heated above boiling at 212 F anyway, but the hot plate and carafe or urn parts can, and steam can, and oil can.
Anyway I’m just saying it would be reasonable for fresh and good-tasting coffee to be in that temperature range. But it’s only going to stay there for any length of time if it’s burned on a hot plate or, more ideally, dripped directly into an insulated container.
It’s more likely their coffee tastes like shit because it was badly roasted, ground months ago, has since gone stale and bitter, and is full of unnecessary added chemicals and preservatives, just like the rest of their shit food.
Funny you should mention that. I use to work for the franchise owner who’s brother-in-law (who also worked for the franchise) gave that woman the cup of coffee (or so he would say) when they were franchising with McDonalds. And guess where I was working at the time? Panera
Where are you working now I’m sure this streak isn’t over.
If I had to guess based on external evidence, maybe Congress?
Okay that’s fucking funny.
Do a bit of research into the marketing actually used for this drink. Assuming the store uses the standard Panera marketing, there’s a big sign on the dispenser saying how much caffeine is in it. It’s a tragic mistake, but unless that location uniquely screwed up, that’s all it is.
Another commentor said their husband ordered it thinking it was a regular lemonade. The issue could be more wide spread than a single store.
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I noted that. Yet another commentor linked to a vlog where the signs weren’t present because the dispensers were behind the counter and had to be ordered. I think there are absolutely locations NOT showing the marketing.
But please check out the other comments here and see the one showing what the dispensers with signs look like. Those are BIG signs with BIG mention of caffeine.
Why didn’t you read the very clear, explicit label?
What very clear, explicit label?
The Charged Lemonade was “offered side-by-side with all of Panera’s non-caffeinated and/or less caffeinated drinks” and was advertised as a “plant-based and clean” beverage that contained as much caffeine as the restaurant’s dark roast coffee, according to photos of both the menu and beverage dispensers in the store, which were included in the wrongful death lawsuit.
“Plant based and clean with as much caffeine as our dark roast coffee.” is the full quote. Then, it lists the specific amount of caffeine for the two sizes.
You can argue it should have a more eye-catching and cautionary presentation, but it’s disingenuous to say it wasn’t clear and explicit.
Forget the article; go to an actual Panera. The amount of caffeine is clearly labeled right under the name of the drink. To be fair, their drinks contain way too much, but you can’t say that they don’t already make the label clear and easy to interpret. People are idiots who don’t read the label beyond the “lemonade” part.
I don’t think it’s “way too much”. A large of those every morning is still under the “healthy” FDA recommendations, wherein there are zero known negative side-effects for most people.
contained as much caffeine as the restaurant’s dark roast coffee
That part. Though I don’t think people realize how much caffeine is in their dark roast coffee. Because it is more caffeine than multiple energy drinks for the same volume. There’s a reason a standard cup of coffee is like 6 oz instead of 20 oz.
It also includes the caffeine “dosage” in grams for those who want/need to know. That inclusion is more prominent than the description he’s quoting.
Flip-side, you can’t get a 6oz coffee in most of the US. The most popular coffee around me is generally sold between 20oz and 30oz sizes.
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Who’s serving up coffee in 6oz cups? Starbucks and most other coffee places have standard sizes of 12, 16, and 20oz.
Standard isn’t what people drink. It’s what the nutrition label on the package and medical guidelines are generally talking about, though. When the FDA says 4-5 cups of coffee is safe for most adults, they don’t mean 48-100oz of coffee.
But as to who makes 6 oz cups? When you make coffee yourself, the cups on the coffee maker are 6 oz.
Sorry but no. If we just arbitrarily remove products because someone managed to die because of it… We literally won’t have anything.
Let’s not use the term arbitrary arbitrarily. It just makes people stupid.
Feel free to elaborate.
Girl dies from drinking caffeine presumably millions of people drink every year.
/u/Orionza I hope this lawsuit forces them to remove this.
Per Google definition
adjective based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
Seems arbitrary to me. If we just start removing items because someone unalive themselves with it… where does that line get drawn? The regular 20-ounce serving has 260 milligrams. The can of energy drink in front of me is 200mg @ 12 oz. So per fluid ounce, it’s not that high.
If I get in a car accident and die… are we going to call for the removal of cars? Just the model that killed me? How is this the companies/products fault?https://www.panerabread.com/en-us/lemonade-chargers.html
Panera Charged Lemonades are the ultimate energy drink guaranteed to charge up your day.
Plant-based and Clean with as much caffeine as our Dark Roast coffee.
I don’t mind it existing as a product. If it does though it should be very clearly labeled with warnings that are impossible to miss. This seems great for Panaras on college campuses, but there should be no possibility you confuse it for something else.
Energy drinks should be sold by prescription only.
