So this dude is basically a 46 year old man child and I don’t wanna armchair diagnose people, but he’s probably on the spectrum.
He’ll say a pun or a “funny” phrase, stare at you till you acknowledge it, then when you do, he’ll just keep saying it over and over. Even if you don’t acknowledge it he’ll say it a bunch then switch to a new one.
He’s obsessed with making fart noises then pretending it’s someone else he’ll even do it while we’re eating lunch. I’ve tried the politely asking him to stop he just says “oh you know I’m just joking” then when I tell him its genuinely annoying he goes full kicked puppy and acts super sad for a few hours and gets all woe is me saying stuff like “oh well I guess everyone hates me I’ll just shut up forever”. Sometimes he even goes full non verbal and literally just tries to communicate by pointing and or writing notes.
It’s not like he’s an asshole he a genuinely good guy he’s good at his job and he’s got your back when you need it.
I guess I just have a hard time finding the balance between not being an ass to a guy with zero social skills and losing my sanity because he can’t be quiet for 5 minutes.
This is very relatable to me. A supervisor in my team has Asperger’s. She has zero social skills. Says very unprofessional things, interrupts conversations and completely changes the topic to something nobody cares about. She is a hoarder and has way too many dogs/cats, her hygiene isn’t the best.
Most of us have worked together for 5+ years and have learned to ignore it as much as possible. It’s clear that she’s not doing this on purpose and doesn’t realize how annoying/rude she can be. I don’t really have a solution for you. This is just something you learn to live with. It’s still very annoying and frustrating to deal with but I don’t think there’s any solution that wouldn’t negatively impact her.
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And where will that get me? She is not like the person the OP described. She brushes off that kind of feedback, it’s not something she even realises she’s doing wrong. It’s her personality.
She’s had complaints brought up against her and was passed up for promotions many times. It’s never changed the way she acts. The thought doesn’t even cross her mind that she is being passed up for promotions because of her social skills. We can’t have a manager saying the kinds of things she does, bad enough she’s a supervisor.
Sounds like a Tim Robinson sketch
I was half expecting this to be a shit post about the office dog or something like that.
You need to speak frankly about this with your manager. Your manager needs to talk to this person about what behaviors are acceptable and what are not. If your manager is unwilling to do this, it’s time to go.
he sounds bad ass
That’s what I was thinking! I seriously said out loud, “This guy sounds like a trip.”
Oh my god that sounds like a nightmare
I’d just be straight with him, in a kind manner tell him his behavior is something you’re having a hard time with, that you expect him to take your feedback on board, and that you’re not interested in dealing with him acting out because his feelings got hurt.
Document everything, give him a chance to modify his behavior and if he persists, you’ve given him a chance and now it’s time to talk to HR because you’ve done everything you can reasonably be expected to do. It’s not your fight anymore.
Have you tried… you know… talking to him about it?
I mean a cool headed calm discussion avoid not making farther noises.
I guess it depends on the culture of your work place but honestly I feel like this is something that can be easily resolved and it’s part of managing a team.
So the issue is it’s like a loop you be nice and ignore him he thinks he’s cool.
You be mean and tell him he’s annoying he paints you as the asshole.
You be nice and tell him he’s being annoying he throws a pity party and makes you feel guilty for saying anything.
he throws a pity party and makes you feel guilty for saying anything.
Have you tried not feeling guilty? :-)
It is still the same: It is his bad behaviour. Regardless how many times he switches from one kind of clown to another kind of clown.
Yes it is hard, you need to stay calm and act like a grown up at all times. Otherwise he ‘has got you’.
If you can stay calm, then talk about his behaviour, and how inappropriate it is, and ask him to stop it. Every time.
Sure, but what’s the end game supposed to be, then? Just making the same request over and over again indefinitely?
One of them is going to learn something some day (and then a change can happen). Do you ask who? I think it depends on what is worse: giving that talk or having to listen to that talk.
Sorry mate. IMO this is really bread and butter for a team leader.
You’re not children. You don’t need to be “nice” or “mean”.
- hey guy
- I’m really enjoying working with you. You seem to be amazing at x. I’m really hoping I can learn about y from you.
- If I’m really honest though, I just can’t concentrate with the fart noises. I know it’s just a joke and maybe others are ok with it but it really disrupts my flow, every time.
- Anyhow, how have you been going with z.
There is an effective formula for feedback I like.
- When you x it has y effect
- Pause for them to reply, ask questions, or even better - suggest an alternative
- It would be better if z
In this case, when you make repeat the same joke it loses all humor value and becomes an annoyance.
It would be better if jokes were limited in use, and certainly not repeated.
Fair point I am probably overthinking it.
You’d be surprised how good ChatGPT is at providing an answer just like the one homie just gave ya.
“oh well I guess everyone hates me I’ll just shut up forever”.
Answering in order, not everyone just us and that would be nice, we could get some work done without the consent noise.
Yeah, if you want it to escalate that’s terrific. No.
(Disclaimer: armchair expert here, admittedly with some personal experience)
Poor guy. Rejection sensitivity is a thing, and it sounds like this guy’s got it bad. Some people essentially walk around with the emotional equivalent of a bad sunburn - even a casual touch can be pretty nasty.
If he’s as socially awkward as this suggests, the whole “setting boundaries” thing is likely hard for him to deal with, and his reaction suggests that he’s never learned to handle feedback very well. I’m assuming there’s no hint of malice, just childishness and being oblivious of social norms. 46 years’ worth of subtle or overt feedback along the lines of “you’re not pulling this social thing off” can make people do some weird and counterproductive things in order to try to fit in. It can also sensitize them extremely to criticism no matter how accurate, necessary and well-intentioned.
If you can make sure he knows you’re on his side, and are very careful to not make things sound like an attack, you have a reasonable chance of getting through. He is distinct from his fart jokes, and people don’t dislike him but specific bits of inappropriate behavior. Since any hint of rejection tilts him, help him be secure in the ways he’s valued. If he’s got the classic “bad with subtext” thing then you need to be prepared to spell things out, while keeping it inoffensive. As a hunch, I’d stay well away from anything that sounds like a judgment either on your part or anyone else’s - stick to the facts. This is what happens when people get distracted, humor is important in the workplace but there’s a time and place, etc.
That being said, you don’t need to coddle him too much (particularly if he’s either guilty about needing it, or suspects it’s not genuine) but it’s ideal if it works - he’s happier and stops setting himself up for “rejection”, everyone else is happy due to less friction in general, you’re happy, your boss is happy.
If that doesn’t work, it might be time for brass tacks: “this specifically doesn’t work, it doesn’t mean people hate you, but it does need to stop.” In the extreme, he could dig in and then you might want to call backup from e.g. your superior or someone less hands-on.
Have you tried telling him this?
this is clearly a hr rep. case.
Maybe some blunt feedback, “I don’t think that’s funny, I don’t like that, I don’t think that’s appropriate for adults at work.”
There’s a sentence in this that every single reply to this has either ignored or missed, and that’s the part where you think he’s autistic.
From the small snapshot of his life and personality that you’ve offered it does seem that he shows some pretty clear signs. It may be that he doesn’t even realise. I know that I’ve very recently come to realise that I’m obviously autistic and I’m very much an adult. How everyone around me throughout my entire life missed it/didn’t realise is absolutely boggling.
Whether he’s diagnosed or not shouldn’t change that it should be handled with the appropriate sensitivities and equality policies as if he was autistic. But that’s entirely up to your work place and it’s culture.
You all need to remember that while you ‘only’ have to be around then during the times you’re around him, he has always got to deal with being autistic, whether he knows he is or not. And from the sounds of things he may not be very good at masking, which is both good and bad for him. As a person who seems to be neurotypical, you live in a world that is designed for neurotypical people. He isn’t and doesn’t. Imagine being forced to live in a world where you need wheelchair ramps, but there are none provided - anywhere. He needs mental ramps.
You are more than entitled and allowed to not want to deal with him or be around him, please don’t take this as saying that expect you to do that. But there needs to be sensitivity and an understanding of his struggles. If he is autistic, he cannot help the way he approaches situations or how he feels when you rebuff him. To him being told he’s annoying is clearly something he’s taking very, very personally. Take it from someone who is also autistic, it’s horrible. I feel like my entire existence is being rejected, and it sticks and I ruminate on it for hours sometimes days.
So speak to HR first, see what their equality policy is, and what options that they have. Hopefully the company culture and policy recognises that a diagnosis isn’t always possible or needed. And take it from there. Ultimately I think that some of the responses about finding time where you can separate yourself from him is the most likely solution.
Yeah I get it I actually have social anxiety that’s why I’ve been so patient with him. I fully understand his reaction it’s just that I’m not close enough with him nor am I a therapist able to work through it with him.
Have you tried being more empathically direct with him?
“Hey man, we all like you a lot and think you’re fun to be around…but you gotta cool it with the jokes at work. It might not make everyone uncomfortable but knowing that it can make some people uncomfortable is uncomfortable in itself. I know you mean well and I don’t want to see someone raise a complaint to HR and get you in trouble”
Sorry mate this is just wrong all the way up and down.
Don’t try diagnosing a co-worker, don’t go running to HR asking about “equality” for someone you’ve diagnosed, and as a team leader just separating yourself from your team is not a solution.
Don’t recall diagnosing him anywhere, but you go ahead and read what you want to read so that you can create a straw man.
I said that it’s a possibility and therefore should be approached with the care that entails.
But your solution, reading your other response is to talk to the person. Which, if you had read the original post, you would have realised they have already tried to. And their response to that detailed.
So what do you propose? Because if the person who is annoyed by the co-worker shouldn’t take time separate from their team to be able to complete aspects of their work, then the alternative is to…? The idea that a TL/manager whatever cannot trust their team to be able to leave them to work without them is obscene in itself. I guess the entire place falls apart when they have to go into meetings or trips etc.
I’m sure you’ll decide to read whatever you want from the above as well, and you do that. I’ll leave you to it.
Your entire post is about managing a neurodivergent person. That’s a diagnosis.
It’s completely inappropriate to make assumptions about a co-worker’s mental faculties, and to act on those assumptions.
OP did try talking to the person but frankly, doesn’t seem very experienced in that regard.
OP needs to build a working relationship with this guy such that he doesn’t respond to feedback as though it’s a personal attack. The only way to do that is talking.
Am actually super experienced in this. I’ve been the fart maker, I’ve been the manager, I’ve been the co-worker tolerating it. Here’s what you do.
Call a team meeting, preferably with HR discussing behavior similar to this, without pinpointing fart jokes but close enough that the message gets across. Maybe say there have been anonymous complaints. Definitely do if possible this will come in handy later.
With step one done, here’s how you deal. If at all possible, develop a bond with the guy, pretend to like the fart jokes. Maybe even make one or two yourself so he feels you’re in this together.
Then, when you tell him to stop, blame HR.
“Haha! Oh, how I love our fart jokes mr.man, but we should lay off of them before HR calls us in!”
“Can’t let you get fired over that, I need you here bud, not fired over a fart joke haha”
This typically has worked from what I’ve seen. When you make someone else, especially a company, the “big bad” and get people to feel like you’re on their side/fighting for them they’re typically more willing to bend a little bit.
Others have mentioned talking to the boss or HR.
Can you make a request to move away from him?
Probably not I’m the team lead and he’s part of my team.
I would suggest documenting his behaviour for a day or two and taking it up with your supervisor to have a meeting for the three of you where you lay out the issue.
If his work is acceptable and it is only his behaviour stress that in the meeting.
How well he will take the criticism is another matter.
I can’t emphasize how much this is the answer. Document your annoyances, document other peoples complaints, document the times you have tried discussing it it with him, and document how he responded. Document the fuck out of everything, because if you are his supervisor, this is going to blow up in your face no matter what you do and you need to be building yourself a blast shield asap. This guy is obviously very manipulative and portrays himself as the victim. When the shit finally hits the fan, he is going to sling it everywhere, and as your direct report, it’s going to pile in your lap.
When you take it up the chain, you don’t even have to take it up as a complaint. Ask for help and guidance in a situation that you fear is going to go bad. You have a guy who is a really good worker, but you fear his antics are going to run off other employees, or even worse, result in HR complaints.True true, I’m going to start with a meeting with me him and the supervisor. I don’t think he is maliciously manipulative if that makes any sense. He just genuinely gets sad when when someone doesn’t find him funny or he annoyed someone and I don’t think he ever learned to how to properly handle being sad.
