No. You’ve just described the life of most people on Earth outside of American suburbia. Most of us don’t mass murder with machine guns.
That only happens in America because you’ve chosen to elect people who make sure crazy people can exercise your Constitutional right to carry machine guns and stand your ground when King Charles comes on your property or you carry your emotional support machine guns to a protest. That’s not “society’s” fault. It’s every single Republican MAGA protect the second amendment voter.
Damn, life looking pretty grim homes. King Charles?!
you can’t acquire an automatic weapon, or “machine gun”, in the US without either an FFL, or buying an expensive as fuck and extremely rare automatic gun from pre-1986. You might see firearms with fire rates similar to automatic weapons as a result of illegal modifications, like that of the bump stock, but there are also less reversible modifications someone might end up doing. Anyways that’s more like a theoretical, really stupid correction for me to make, because it’s kind of up in the air as to whether or not automatic weapons would even be more effective if you wanted to kill a lot of people, as military doctrine generally employs them (full auto) as suppression or cover fire, making active zones of danger which enemies can’t pass through or fire from, rather than for the use of killing people. Though, the military doesn’t really tend to kill large unarmed groups of people, or, they prefer to do that with drone strikes, anyways. You don’t really care about any of that, though, probably.
I would also like to posit that probably america has a unique combination of factors which spurn on violence. Insane amounts of wealth disparity, probably only comparable to some places in the middle east, if that, but also a sense of entitlement towards middle class living, aka the “american dream”, which creates a kind of scorn and spite in the american mind when that middle class ideal is denied, or revealed as false. The way that these ideologies work is that they say that X is entitled to middle class living, that they deserve it, but that Y minority or Y oppressed group is in the way.
Also, these mass shootings, mass shootings of this specific type, tend to be relatively rare. Or at least, not as big of a problem as the media would have you believe, relative to: the vast majority of firearm violence, which primarily happens with handguns, and is related to gang violence (this category includes shootings by the police). Which is quite obviously related to poverty, and the protection of drugs as a high-value good that obviously can’t be protected by the actual government. So you see a local monopoly of force evolve taking advantage of the poor in order to bring themselves to a more economically workable position, yadda yadda, I’m sure you’ve heard that story before. And then on top of that you have handgun suicide comprising somewhere between half and a third of all gun deaths (I can’t quite remember).
All that considered, in combination with a lack of political will to get rid of guns, for somewhere around half the population, I’d probably make the prescription that you would see a better drop in violence from the legalization, or decriminalization, of drugs, universal mental healthcare, rectifying economic inequality, and of course, “common sense” gun laws, which would probably mostly apply to screenings for mental illness, primarily depression, but also conspiratorial thinking. The latter there, “common sense” gun laws, I think is agreeable to the majority of the population.
most people on Earth outside of American suburbia
Inside. You mean inside of American suburbia, the depressing, isolating, boring American suburbia. People in the first world outside of America have social nets and help from the society if they’re on the downswing. People in first world go to therapist when they feel bad about circumstances of their lives, not into sporting shop to buy a gun.
But you’re completely right, the situation when people can go to a random shop and buy a gun is fucking insane.deleted by creator
You may want to adjust your term “assault rifles” to “scary black rifles.”
Assault rifles are a type of machine gun, to be an assault rifle it must have select fire, semi and full/burst.
The second wasn’t drafted only for protection, but also for government oversight.
Nobody outside of the USA gives a shit about the distinction.
Most of us in the US also don’t give a shit about the gun pedants and their attempts to disrupt the conversation again like they always do
The “sad” fact is that most people outside of the US don’t know the difference, because outside of perhaps a hunting store, or rarely seeing armed police in airports/during police incidents, most people have never seen a gun.
Also everybody living outside USA is dirt poor woth zero prospects and low IQ apparently.
Not really sure what matters in this context.
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Ok. Not that anybody asked.
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You’ve just described the life of most people on Earth outside of American suburbia.
What the actual fuck are you talking about?
Anon learns about Material Conditions.
How come none of these nutcases ever go shoot a billionaire or two instead of random Innocents?
Update: someone has. Billionaire in question was Brian Thompson, the UHC CEO
There people who are literally bordering death by hunger and drinking dirty water probably from the moment their embryo began to form. Malnutrition is proven to led to low IQ. But they all don’t go on killings spree, otherwise there would be no-one suffering from hunger anymore.
We always had lots of guns, why are mass shootings a modern phenomenon?
I think we should regulate them the way we do cars. But also there’s clearly some underlying issue. Maybe cultural where people see guns as a way to escape or see them as part of their personality.
Because old guns took 30 seconds to reload one bullet and were inaccurate past like 3 meters
I think they meant like 1970, not 1870.
I’m seeing a lot of shootings since the 80s. Guns get better and people get more fucked up mentally. America chooses to fix neither.
You could walk into a gun store and buy a fully automatic submachinegun until 1986.
oh yeah? you could get that $200 tax stamp right there huh? National Firearms Act of 1934 was a thing in 1986 bro.
maybe you could get your ffl to arrange for it ahead of time, using the info from your previous stamp applications…
but the tax stamp still took time, stop acting like it was easy as picking up a cheeseburger. deliberately promoting the idea that fully automatic firearms were all over, it’s just the crazy people today that’s the problem, is facile bullshit.
I do agree that guns should be regulated like cars with mass shootings by social outcasts from my understanding are trying to get back at society and even if you straight up ban guns what’s stopping the outcast from doing a mas stabbing instead gun regulation is just a nesesary speed bump for people that want to hunt people same thing with gun bans as they are used by militarys and illegal sales and manufacturing will just skyrocket
UK acid throwers enter the chat.
It’s a hell of a lot harder to commit a mass stabbing compared to a mass shooting. And funnily enough, mass stabbings are rare in countries that have strict gun regulations. It’s almost like it’s a non-issue created by pro-gun advocates to distract from the weekly mass shootings in the US.
weekly mass shootings in the US.
We average more than 1 per day and have for a few years now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2023
That’s just sad.
This just isn’t true. A knife is far more concealable, far more stealthy in the aftermath of a shank and move (look at prison shankings going unnoticed all the time), and far more likely to cause death. China literally has a mass stabbing problem. Generally targeted at elementary age children. One specifically killing 33 and injuring 130. You’re just falling for propaganda rhetoric.
In self defense knives increase the chance to injure or kill yourself over a gun or with just your hands, increase the fatality rate for any stabbed over being shot, and rarely lose against anything in close quarters (hence why you run from knives but try and redirect the barrel a gun when possible). Dirks and daggers are well known to be one of the most dangerous weapons created and were literally outlawed throughout history, in some places even currently.
It’s almost as if mass shootings increase with the number of guns in circulation
they have no answer for it. turns out, the good guy with a gun is either a myth for morons, or, more guns ain’t making anything better.
huh.
are you dumb enough to believe there’s an equivalence or just shit posting because you don’t care?
They’re pointing out that correlation isn’t causation. For example, what if shootings are scaring people into buying more guns?
I mean that is part of it. The NRA has people living in a collective delusion. This delusion appeals particularly to people who are dejected or vulnerable because it gives them something like an ego safety net. So when the inevitable happens, and some of these people “snap,” they have nearly ubiquitous tools available to make it everyone else’s problem.
Gun availability is a big part of the problem, but the even bigger issue is the culture of fear the NRA and Republican politicians have pushed to sell more guns, and how that intersects with other social ills in the US.
No, they’re just shit posting because they don’t want anyone to question their fetish. When you care about firearms more than dead children, it’s some kind of sick obsession and you need therapy.
Narcissism.
can we accept people are going to react to their shitty lives differently, and just because it doesn’t make you go on a murderous spree, it doesn’t mean that it is the case for everybody. the real solution isn’t to make these dumb arguments against shooters etc. which might be as correct as you want them to but it’s to make lives fucking dignifying in a situation where one may not be thinking rationally. if one doesn’t have the strength to not make a certain choice, calling them pathetic doesn’t fix shit. every single one of us is delusional.
It’s important though that people get more aware when they notice in themselves that they start to become hateful against groups of people or people in general. That’s the one big difference between people with problems and people with problems who start to commit atrocities.
Instead of focusing on the “woe is me” aspect there should be more investment into understanding why some people turn against others.
“Guy with shit circumstances decides to buy a gun and decides to go somewhere with the gun and decides to shoot undeserving people with the gun, it’s society’s fault”
Way to blame the victim anon. No, this was his decision. I know folks who have life shitting all over them and it doesn’t make them want to kill children and families.
Both apply. Yes, he ultimately chose to do it. However society shaped and funneled him into that position. It’s not a binary decision between individual and systematic, both can apply. In this case, social systems failed and put a large number of people in a bad situation with an apparent easy way out. Almost all then chose not to go on a killing spree. Unfortunately, “almost all” is “all”. Some will make the bad choice, when put in that position.
As a society, we can’t change individual choices. What we can do however is change the framework those choices are made in. If we aim to put fewer people in that position, then fewer will make the wrong choice, and we will all be safer for it.
You only said that some people have a lower threshold.
You guys are groomed in social=bad.
It’s both. Even terrible people with something to lose are less likely to throw it all away.
If this guy makes $35k a year at dollar general, he probably doesn’t go on a murder spree.
But you could also just not be an asshole. Why go after random people instead of someone who actually helps cause the bullshit?
You’re right, we should be targeting the bourgeois, aristocrats and ultra rich with our killing sprees. What we need are eco terrorists, not senseless killings.
Fuck that. We don’t need terrorists at all.
the guy wants “good” terrorist he advocates while wiping the doritos off his desk and washing down his everclear with sugar free juice.
society isnt you or i society is the general way things are and yes society is the cause of shootings. mental health is a direct measure of society.
society fights tooth and nail to have guns be super easy to get.
society also fights tooth and nail to keep (mental) healthcare behind an impossible wall.
so now we are generating mentally ill people that have easy access to guns. multiply that by the internal bias and bigotry you were raised with and many millions of potential offenders. boom you have a shooting every freaking day.
yes the shooter is shitty and should be killed or in jail but society is at fault for the shooting even ever coming close to occuring.
I fail to see the relevance of this post and it comes off as if people want to victim blame. A lot of people have problems. A lot of people get bullied. Just think about the thousands of women who get raped and sexually abused throughout their lifes.
Mass shooter fit a profile, sure. They obviously aren’t happy people. But the reason why they do this is not what has happened to them in their lifes. Otherwise we would have a lot more mass shooters.
A lot more mass shooters? You mean like we’ve got? The number is going up, is that not a good indicator at an external factor?
Yeah, there would be orders of magnitude more mass shooters if everyone with a garbage childhood and an intellectual challenge followed this path. It is the tiny minority of such people who take the terrorist path.
I think you’re missing the point in that we already have a lot of mass shooters because society has failed them.
This is a symptom of our society.
Trying to absolve society of its involvement is essentially just turning a blind eye to the problem and hoping it goes away. Which is exactly the problem that we have.
This is simply taking an actual nuanced thought on the situation instead of letting your emotions regulate your thoughts and turning everything into a false dichotomy.
It is not society which is failing when people turn to murder it’s the people who turn to murder who are failing.
The focus should be on why a few people decide it’s okay to hate other groups of people so much, that they murder them.
To believe it’s society’s fault people are turning into murderes and now it’s society’s responsibility to dissolve each and every problem anyone could have ever is completely unrealistic.
People will always have problems. And there will always be people who believe other lives are worth less. It’s much more likely to be able to do something against the latter than doing something against people having problems.
instead of letting your emotions regulate your thoughts and turning everything into a false dichotomy.
Well said.
Also, seems like a lot of people here on Lemmy fall for that, unfortunately.
But the reason why they do this is not what has happened to them in their lifes.
What other fuckin’ reason is there? Everyone is precisely how they are because of the sum total of their life experiences and the results of their genetic lottery.
Because a lot of people have struggles and only few are becoming murderers or hurt people in other ways. Murderes, at some point in their lifes, decided it is okay to hurt others. That is the deciding factor.
But the reason why they do this is not what has happened to them in their lifes.
We are our memories.
We are the decisions we make. Each person is the sum of how they react to stimulus.
We are the decisions we make.
And we make those decisions based on our life experiences, also known as memories.
We have enough examples of (mass) murderes who did not have horrible lives and so many people have horrible lives and don’t kill others.
It’s illogical to draw the conclusion it’s a bad life that turns people into murderes.
A better course of action would be higher intervention at the point were someone decides: “others should suffer for my problems”.
We have enough examples of (mass) murderes who did not have horrible lives
I’m something of a news junkie and I haven’t heard of them. Maybe there’s a one-off here or there, but the majority of them would not have what you described.
and so many people have horrible lives and don’t kill others.
Well yes, of course. Mental illness is a spectrum, it’s a bell curve, it’s not an on and off switch, when it comes to murder.
It’s illogical to draw the conclusion it’s a bad life that turns people into murderes.
I disagree with this, strongly.
Honestly that sounds like an opinion of someone who believes illogically in that we’re always “captains of our ship” and we’re always perfect mentally, and that we always can make decisions free of illness.
Humanity is just not like that, we have emotions and can have mental illness, and sometimes they drive us to do things that we regret later on or uncontrolling of during.
Mental illness can affect our perception of things to the point where we do things that seem logical to us but that society would think is completely illogical, like murder.
I think you have trouble differentiating between causes and fault or responsibility. English is not my native language, so perhaps I get the inuendo wrong. But claiming “Cruz’ crime was 100 % society’s fault” absolves the murderer of all his responsibility.
Society is not responsible for the decisions you make, it’s your decision alone. You don’t get to blame others for your decisions to hurt and murder people.
I think you have trouble differentiating between causes and fault or responsibility.
Very dismissal of you to think that of me.
For the record, I don’t.
“Cruz’ crime was 100 % society’s fault”
Nobody ever said 100%.
Society is not responsible for the decisions you make, it’s your decision alone.
We affect each other more than we realise and/or want to admit. Humans are social creatures.
And again, not talking in absolutes.
“cruz” could have done many other things than work as a retail slave. many jobs dont require anything but muscles and a desire to learn.
Please tell me where these “things” are, cause I’ve been unemployed and trying to find one of them for the past 4 months to no avail.
The only companies responding to my applications are for shitty fast food, retail, and call center jobs. I’m middle-aged and I’m so sick and tired of those gigs. I want something different that allows me to actually pay my bills on time for once.
You can find literally any industrial town desperate for workers and offering at least 20 an hour for labor jobs.
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Unfortunate, but they exist everywhere. Almost every company I know out here in STL pays starting 20 for even unskilled positions. I went first responder though and the Illinois side of STL has a premium rate on that anyway. Highest average of the whole state and desperate for hires.
I find office work mind numbing, disgusting in culture, and generally unsatisfying at the end of the day both philosophically and, as a powerlifter, physically.
why not go the firefighter route? my sister’s ex did that, he said that it was really rewarding.
I have friends that are, and I’m not opposed, I just enjoy what I do now
For instance?
“fail ASVAB” aside, this is true
There are too many shootings to keep track. Which shooting was this? A few days ago or a month ago or a year ago.
Few years ago. Marjory Stoneman Douglas / parkland school shootings.
Mixed feelings on this.
Yes, I think he was dealt a very bad hand and that undoubtedly played a factor in why he but what he did but At the end of the day Cruz still choose to do what he did. That’s why I don’t like the “100% society’s fault” no, a person still made a choice. We can recognise what kind of dysfunctional people society can create while also not absolving them either.
Just adding cause I know someone will misinterprete my comment if I don’t. Yes I think gun laws in the US are in dire need of being reformed and that the US desperately needs to improve its safety nets but at the end of the day we need to acknowledge personal agency in these situations as well.
do something fantastic in their life
Wut now?
Maybe 4chan self-propagandizing mass shootings as “something fantastic” should be one of those environmental factors being considered in what led up to the end result?
I think you’re missing the point. The “fantastic” is from the shooter’s POV.
Yeah, then next shooter when they read this article and think of yeah it’s fantastic all right.
And also “this is all society’s fault, I’m not bad, this is the right thing to do.” It is really easy to go through all the shit described and NOT be a mass murderer, millions of people do it all the time.
I mean yeah society has a role to play in this but there are millions of.people who are in or have gone through this same situation without murdering a bunch of people
And yet those ppl are now dead. So advocating for any position other than the one which removes the possibility of people making the choice to kill others is to support those deaths. Which is to say to support the status quo in the USA is to support the deaths of these people.
If 1 in a million people will go on a killing spree, when driven to rock bottom, then you would expect to have a few, if you drive millions of people to that position.
Victorian England introduced various social safety nets not primarily out of goodness, but out of cost. It was actually cheaper to just feed the starving, rather than stopping them stealing for food, and punishing them afterwards. The fact it improved the lives of the downtrodden was just a convenient positive.
I think this post intends to convey that society has done those people dirty too and that we shouldn’t wait until those “millions of people who are in…this same situation” turn into shooters before doing something.
Assigning blame does nothing. It’d be great if potential murders would stop and think “hey maybe murder is wrong. Maybe other people have solver similar problems without murdering anyone!” But that’s not going to happen.
the child who is not embraced by its village will burn it down just to feel its warmth
Dont glamourize mass murderers.Dont even publish their names, publish the names of the victims.
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