It’s funny because we made the word powerful by forbidding certain people to say it yet the people it’s the most offensive to say it the most.
it’s almost like context is important or something. nah, couldn’t be that! nuance is for pussies
Depends what you think the nuance is. Maybe the nuance is that a group of people are self-perpetuating negative stereotypes and have trapped themselves in a situation where they can never be criticised for it, and where the they consider protecting that toxic trait to be “winning”.
…or it’s the difference between using it in slang vs using it as an insult/perjorative. And people usually get that. The whole hard R thing represents that difference really well. There’s nothing wrong with taking back power over a slur. I can’t think of any better way to mock the people who use it, in fact.
Generally speaking, the group taking back the slur isn’t going to use it in a bad way, so it’s assumed they’re using friendly slang. If you aren’t part of that group, that basic assumption isn’t there. And considering how many racists are still alive today, that’s fair. For me, it’s also just basic respect. The slur isn’t used against me and probably won’t be. I have nothing to reclaim.
Look at it this way. Eminem has gone his entire rap career without saying it. He’s really good friends and colleagues with a lot of black people. Undoubtedly someone has “given him permission” at some point, and I imagine almost everyone he’s with would be fine with it, but he still doesn’t use it.It’s ironic, actually. The people who understand this are also probably the people most likely to be “given permission”. And they don’t use it. That should tell you everything you need to know.
Edit: Correction, he had used it in the past, but he stopped quite a while ago. The general gist my point though is still the same, he’s built an incredible rap career without saying it much at all, and he clearly hasn’t seen the need to in a long time.
I agree with your message but Eminem has used it in his rap several times. I know it’s old and some of those were as backing vocals just nice to see that he realized it wasn’t right for him to say so he stopped.
Ohhhh gotcha. Let me edit my comment. Thanks for the correction!
It’s not a difficult concept. Just don’t say it. The word doesn’t have any power above the comradery between black people and hatred coming from a white person. The power dynamic is what’s important.
I never said it was difficult, it’s just ironic. I don’t say it. Can you read or are you just saying what you are thinking? It has a lot of power, it can make a room erupt into a riot in an instant or cancel your whole career/life…Look at Morgan Wallen for example…
Look at Morgan Wallen for example…
Would have been so easy just to not say it, unless it was in his heart.
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If it’s in the song I like I just go along with. Me doing that isn’t in any negative way. If the artist don’t like some people say it, they shouldn’t put in there.
Skipping it or bleeping it out is like censoring art.
He did give her a second try on the song.
“If the artist don’t like some people say it, they shouldn’t put in there.”
I think I’ve heard the response to this from creators, the idea is that it isn’t made for you. They create media informed by black experiences and tailored for black audiences. They don’t feel like they should have to change that to accommodate white/non-black audiences, and not doing so shouldn’t be a free pass for people to turn bigoted language back at them.
Take what you will from that, and consider that I cited a vague “they” with no clear reference or origin. I’m going off shoddy memory, and as a non-black person.
Hypocrite
He actually mentions this on his new album in the song Auntie Diaries, which is about him learning to understand his trans aunt and cousin. He uses gay slurs throughout the song as an example of what he’d say when he was younger. There’s a very poignant moment I’ll paraphrase:
“I said those words but I didn’t know any better. I was taught that words were [just words].” - Kendrick
“Kendrick, ain’t no room for contradiction. [Let’s look at it from a different perspective]. F* F* F* we can say it together, but only if you let a white girl say n–” - Cousin who’s trans
❄️
Same reason I tend to avoid songs with swears.
You’re missing out on a lot of really, really good music.
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yeah I get this. part of ADHD for me is having a lot of impulsive words floating through my head. I try to avoid things I wouldn’t want falling out later. I remember in high school I had a revival of “aw, gay” that kept popping up in my head, even though it had already died out socially years ago and I hadn’t said it (in that manner) in years. I probably saw it again on TV or something and it just stuck. it took a lot of conscious power to just stop saying it reflexively when I died in a video game or whatever.
I don’t know how to say this in a way that doesn’t sound like I’m shit talking so I’ll just put this here and say I mean it without sarcasm or insult.
That’s a hell of a sacrifice, and I wouldn’t make it, but I do respect your commitment.
What do you mean you’re “not allowed to speak” it? lol. Y’all are so weird about being racist.
Yeah this is the one instance where idgaf I’m saying it.
Sir this is a Christian house hold
Nah. I listen to 90s hip hop quite a bit. No way around the word.
I still don’t even dare to say it even when I’m alone in my car and singing along because I don’t want to slip if I ever sing it in public
I do the same, but this is really the issue with words some people are allowed to say but others aren’t. Hearing something all the time and not saying it just isn’t something we’re built for. So it’s kind of like encouraging a cultural separation.
If I recall correctly, many organizations that advocate in the interest of black people prefer no one use the word.
I mean, it’s not that difficult. I listen to plenty of rap and I don’t think I’ve ever spoken the word, certainly not in public. I don’t see it as cultural separation but as cultural respect.
Eminem has gone an entire rap career without saying it, and he doesn’t seem very fussed about it.Edit: He has said it before earlier in his career, but not now for quite a while. The general point I’m making is the same though.
For me when I hear someone speak my internal monologue patterns itself after their speech for a while, and I’ve heard others describe the same. Accents shift over time if you move somewhere with a different accent. I think it’s possible to have your words follow a set of rules, but for most people that will take active filtering that will make their speech less off-the-cuff and might slip if they are tired or drunk or something.
You know it’s interesting, because I’m the same way, but I haven’t had that happen for me. Not saying you’re wrong, it’s just interesting how the phenomenon varies. If I have one long listen/exposure, multiple hours long, then I’ll it happen to me. That isn’t a common occurrence though.
I get your point though. I suppose it just comes down to how someone’s brain is wired, and to what level they can separate it from their own speech.
It’s for that reason why I advocate for everyone to be allowed to say it just like we do with cracker yea one is more prominent than the other but man if we are equal than shouldn’t it be easy to decide if slurs are allowed at all or not yet again I advocate for all slurs to be allowed by everyone because banning them just gives them power via significance
You’re ridiculous. You have that much trouble not saying nigga that you have to pretend the word doesn’t exist?
💯 the people who say this also say we can’t restrict the free speech of Nazis
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Read a room. If you think people will be upset, don’t say it. If you don’t think people will be upset but they are, apologize and don’t say it
I literally just figured out what the meme was about by your comment. I thought people were annoyed by Elmo’s voice lol.
Or just… Don’t say it?
EDIT: I’ll be honest, didn’t expect “don’t say the n-word” to be my most controversial take on this platform. Yeesh.
I once worked with a black dude who said the word all the time. One day we were talking hella shit about our boss and all kinds of n words flying out of his mouth, and I let one loose too, froze, and looked at him and he didn’t even give a shit.
People joke about the hard R but there really is a huge difference. And besides, people know there’s a big contextual difference. Homies aren’t going to mind if you’re just hanging out with them … probably.
Saying you cant say a word purely based on skin color is text book racism because ti discriminates on skin color race and ethnicity. Also saying that anyone using ut just want to be edgy or offensive is also a bad take since they might just not have american culture values
being ignorant of African American history and African diaspora in general is not really a great excuse. but that’s why people in other parts of the world might get your excuse. it’s still pretty awful, but maybe not as awful as living in America and still being ignorant of it. or any country with a history of + hand in African diaspora, really. so like >50% of the world.
oh and if you think NOT saying slurs is racist then I think you might be one of the ignorant ones.
I dont think I understand your last point
Either way not everyone shares american values or definitions when it comes to words
I just make a record-scratch sound instead of say the word if it’s in a song I’m singing. If people think that’s lame then I’ll live with that. I do NOT want to get comfortable saying that word; I’m the same shade as printer paper.
I had a friend get very comfortable with the phrase “yeaaahhh, ma nizzle” (substitute nizzle for the word it’s code for, because I can confirm after using a perfectly acceptable word similar to snickering it will be removed and also I don’t wanna type it).
One day, we’re at a very rough pub in Digbeth. Lots of drinks had. We’re all sat at a table outside, behind my friend are two very large, very black bouncers. One legit looked like the Hulk and capable of casually ripping my friend’s head off. The other wasn’t as muscled but still well-built and very tall. Then… my friend… says the words. Everyone at the table kinda freezes and goes quiet. The very tall guy goes “What did he say?!” and the Hulk just shakes his head sadly and says “something stupid”. Thank you Hulk for not ripping my friend’s head off.
And that, boys and girls, is why you don’t get comfortable saying words that aren’t for you.
"My neighbor’ works just fine.
Neighbors With Attitude want a kind word with you.
this is when howdly doodly goes rap
No way. They’re Bartcore through and through.
I can assure you that if I saw the guy next door out on his patio, and called over, “What’s up, my neighbor?” it would not “work just fine.”
I like homie better for this reason. It fits contextually and it’s also still slang, so it sounds a lot better.
Wait, so are you telling me “Elmo’s Song” was originally ******'s song?
Yup. All those “la la las” you hear now? Originally something else
Same as Yada Yada Yada
Yada Yada Yada Yada Yada… I’m 100% Yada
I’m curious, is there another word that have the same taboo status as the n-word? I’ve never heard of another word that can only be uttered if you have the right shade of skin. What a stupid world we live in, seriously.
There’s not another word with as lengthy a history rooted in dehumanization of the other, so the unique status shouldn’t be surprising.
I’m not speaking from any position of authority here, but I think it has more to do with being in the right culture, not the right skin color like some people imply.
There are urban white kids who grew up in the projects who use the same language as their black peers, and I think generally no one cares. However, when someone outside that culture uses that language, it’s not something they use for normal speech and there’s probably some other motivation behind it. It’s just like in a lot of people’s speech they say “bro” but it doesn’t mean brother. To people outside the culture it means black person, but they use it like others use “bro”. It doesn’t really mean anything.
Reiterating, I have very little experience with this. It’s just my observations. I’ve known black people who it’d be weird for them to use this language and seen white people who it’s just a normal part of their speech.
That makes a bit more sense if that’s a culture thing, but how do you define someone who belong in that culture? Is a black person born from a very wealthy European family still allowed to say it, even though he might have nothing to do with the culture? It just seems weird to me how you clearly define this, I mean even clearly defining what a black person is, is pretty much impossible.
The point is it isn’t clearly defined. It’s situational. Not all black people will or should say it, and some white people feel comfortable saying it and use it in situations where it doesn’t offend anyone. There is no “correct” race, skin tone, culture, etc where it’s always OK. There’s just situations where it’s OK for some people. I’m sure if you know it’s OK then you know it’s OK, and that’s the only time it’s OK. If you’re wondering if it’s appropriate, it probably isn’t.
Maybe some well off black people wouldn’t use the word, but it certainly would not be acceptable for any white person to use it in any context. Even if they grew up in “the hood” it would, at the very least, be frowned upon for them to say it. In many places it would earn them an immediate beat down.
I don’t think it’s as removed from skin color as you think. If someone saw the white kids saying it and didn’t know they grew up in the projects, would they still not care? Conversely, if a bunch of black kids who grew up in an affluent household said it, would people be offended?
You’d likely know where they grew up by the manner of their speaking. The white kids from the projects are going to sound “urban” and the black affluent people are going to sound stereotypically “white”. I wouldn’t be offended (I’m white) but I would be surprised if the black people I know who do not use that language started using the n-word suddenly. It’s not a part of their normal language, so what caused them to suddenly start using it? Probably nothing good I would assume.
It also depends on the time and place. Those white kids from the projects would probably need to code switch when going to a job interview or something, for example, just like their black peers do. That language is context-dependents on whether it’s acceptable. It’s more than just being black.
you’re getting downvoted but you’re on point 👌🏽 it depends on the context and place you’re meeting. but it can be obvious pretty quick where you came from. goes for other black people too ofc
i’ve talked with a couple of my hood ass white friends that say it and they’ve mentioned this, about being conscious with it around strangers till they’ve talked a little. if you just start throwing it around you look like a clown
There are exceptions, Puertoricans can say it all they want, just look at fat Joe.
It’s called “reappropriation”, and there are words in other groups, such as the LGBT community, which are only considered “acceptable” when used by members of the in-group.
That’s fair, my only issue is clearly determining what makes someone a member of the group. I guess for LGBT it’s more clearly defined, but it becomes a lot harder to determine if you’re from X ethnicity or if you belong to Y culture (or I guess the hard part is to make people accept you in their club…)
Y * * lo, r * d, and m* * * to skinned are also taboo, but you don’t see people with those skin colors using the terms and keeping it popular.
I have no clue what words are those supposed to be so yeah, you’re right.
One was a football team
You censored the word “red?” I thought it was “retarded” lol
M is probably “mulatto” but what’s “y?”
Think Asian… and a color.
Ahh ok the pattern follows too
Yeah but I can use the word yellow all day without issue. Those words don’t share the cultural properties of the n word
Faggot used to be a school yard insult but it’s being fast tracked to “The N Word for Gays”
Is there a better lemmy server that dont censor words like snowflakes? It makes it hard to have genuine dialogues
I have been trying to get on Lemmy NSFW because what I am on Lemm.ee wants to hide the porn from me.
But I can say what I am on right now doesn’t sense your words, I can say retard and faggot like it was the early 2000s all over again
I think you just got censored
Not in my view. All the words are there. What exactly are you seeing?
Retard and removed. Unless you wrote removed
I’m not seeing any censoring in this thread. I’m based out of lemm.ee and using wefwef web client to read.
Are you seeing certain words censored out?
Try programming.dev. I don’t see any censoring.
My guess is that the N word has pretty much no historical use outside of referring to darker skinned people in as derogatory of a way as possible. The F word for gays is about the only other one, unless you’ve got a British pal who smokes, but just about every other slur is either so obscure that it’s only heard rarely, or has other legitimate uses, so you have to apply context to figure out what the situation is. N word was almost always bad, until they decided to blunt the blade, so to speak, by adopting it as a part of their own vernacular.
Voldemort
I’m a school bus driver and by far the weirdest experience (which I have regularly) is driving a busload of middle school or high school girl athletes (almost all white) somewhere and listening to them sing along to music with the n-word in it. They do not skip the n-word.
they wouldn’t be edgy and cool if they did.
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Jokes aside, I’m about 95% sure Elmo is supposed to be black-coded
Wow, even Sesame Street is whitewashing their characters now? :P
Not so much white washing as making sure people know that it isn’t the pedophile operating the puppet anymore.
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Holy shit
How the hell is Elmo black-coded?
Have you ever heard Elmo talk
You’re not wrong, Sesame Street was developed to look like Harlem. It’s been very much about black representation in every aspect they could consider since the very early days.
Huh, even as a young child in Australia I kind of was aware sesame street was from a rougher area, although safe. Wonder how I clocked that even though it was never explicit
The result of a very creative dude who had a vision of exactly how he wanted convey his message so everyone felt included.
We still miss you Jim.
Sesame Street and Avenue Q were closer than we thought.
Unless you’re Korean. “Ni ga” (니가) literally means “you” in Korean. With the not-so-recent surge in popularity of Kpop globally, I know there’s been more than one outraged person accusing Korean rappers of racism for saying “you” in their own language.
Russell Peters, a Canadian comedian, actually mentioned something similar in Mandarin years ago in one of his specials. Here he is talking about going to a KFC in Beijing.
Note: Russell is of Indian descent and uses a lot of racial jokes in both the entire special as well as this specific bit.
That was pretty hilarious despite some jokes that definitely wouldn’t fly today. And were iffy then, too.
Oh absolutely. I remember laughing at that when I was a very young teenager but was cringing just a little while rewatching it yesterday. It’s not nearly as bad as some other stuff but it’s a little yikes. Wondering if thats why I haven’t seen Russell Peters in over a decade.
I just checked his Wikipedia, and it looks like he’s mostly been acting in some dubious looking comedy films with some TV on the side.
I worked a job where I’d often be driving people speaking Mandarin on conference calls. I had this exact thought while driving them around. I remember hearing this special around that time n laughing my ass off.
Please tell me you worked for a combined ride share and conference call service called Zoomy Zoom
Ha, it was a black car company with a lot of corporate clients. Those people would be on calls all the time.
It reminds me of a problem with Japanese let’s players, how they’ve been playing more and more Western games lately, who have been playing Grand Theft Auto V.
See in Japanese culture, onomatopoeia is a bigger thing, and it’s not uncommon for people to sing an onomatopoeia or for them to be accounted for in the dialogue for media, especially in anime.
So a notice actually had to be given to Japanese Grand Theft Auto fans to stop playfully singing the N Word (as is done at the end of the infamous Franklin Roast)
Many fans mistook it for a playful onomatopoeia and just began singing it on stream in the most innocent way possible.
There are compilations of famous Japanese Vtubers doing this and it is as adorable as it is uncomfortable
Oh man I remember this in college. I was grabbing some stuff at a Walgreens and this Korean lady was on the phone saying that. When I got home I told one of my roommates and he was “No, no, they weren’t being really racist, that’s a common phrase in Korean!”
Incredibly unfortunate false cognate.
Or as League of Legends personality “LS” says
Just call people 니가 and they literally cannot punish you
