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Hmm, that would certainly change
thingsnothingI agree that it would change nothing.
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I’m very saddened to hear about the death of this young woman. I’m also sad to hear about deaths of many, many Palestinians. I do not think it’s coincidence that Hamas decides to launch a major offensive in the midst of talks with between Saudi Arabia and Israel to normalize relations between the two after many years of relative peace. We can’t have peace in the Middle East because it doesn’t serve the ends to the major regional powers.
Both sides in this conflict are used as pawns for the political ends of others. Innocent people are those that get caught in the midst of it all. Hamas didn’t do this without a green light so as much vitriol being spilled in this thread we have to take a step back. These fights have been brewing and going on for generations. If you take the short term view much of the strife we see today is the fallout from WWII and that is used as leverage by other nefarious parties.
It’s not the Israeli people’s fault they do not have a home. It’s not the Palestinian people’s fault they do not have a home.
Some of the comments in this thread are sickening, hateful, narrow, and short-sighted.
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I don’t think it’s right to nonchalantly compare the Palestinians as the citizens of a nation and Jews as an ethnic group. It seems a bit… racist?
From what I understand it’s not the Palestinians fault they don’t have a home, and that’s in large part due to Israeli Zionists.
Palestinians weren’t citizens of a nation and than got invaded by Zionist Jews someday. Israel, Gaza and Westbank (now called Palestine) were created in that area which was called Transjordan at the time. And Israelis and Palestinians come from a similar group of people who has ancestors in the area.
The influx of Jews to the area was a result of World War 2 and the exile of Jews in some of the surrounding countries.
You are seen as a “Palestine refugee” btw, when your father was a Palestine refugee. It’s not exactly a citizenship.
they have a home, and they’d have a country if they just said “yes”
Jews are most assuredly an ethnic group. One Hamas intends to commit genocide against.
"I invaded your land and occupied it and killed your family, but you didn’t say yes when I offered you a piece of your land! You’re a terrorist! "
you murdered, raped, and defiled the corpses of innocents, unprovoked, and with no aim but the act itself, so you’re by definition a terrorist
Ftfy
Not my intent. I made an edit to address that.
I don’t disagree with you if that extends beyond borders. External forces seem to dictate what happens there.
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I also find it troubling how many people on the fediverse are apologists for Hamas.
I got downvoted and shit on just for saying the videos from 10/7 showed really fucked up shit, including Shani. Some of the crowd on lemmy is pretty fuckin gross tbh, the Fediverse isn’t going to pick up with the tankies taking over over every controversial political topic.
I haven’t seen the videos (and I don’t plan to) because I don’t need to see them to know it was some horrendously fucked up shit. Just reading the articles about it was more than enough.
But Israel bombing the shit out of Gaza and blockading food, water, electricity, fuel, etc from entering Gaza is straight up crimes against humanity.
Israel is punishing every single person in the area for the crimes of Hamas.
Hamas can fuck off but I understand why they came about.
Yeah I’ve made it a point to not to “pick a side” which is what I am seeing people do in most conversations about the topic. I’m atheist and have no stake in either and the whole thing is just a disgusting mess. The problem comes when people justify the “eye for an eye” response that both groups are taking.
The problem comes when people justify the “eye for an eye” response that both groups are taking.
This is the all lives matter take of the middle east. Israel has killed 36x as many civilians as all pro-Palestine groups have killed Israeli civilians.
It’s not an eye for an eye. It’s genocide.
No, killing innocent civilians is never the answer no matter who has done what. And both groups are doing it. Israel can be a piece of shit for what they have done and are doing. And Hamas can be a piece of shit for what they did too, they are not mutually exclusive.
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You’d be surprised. I mean, even downpunxx is still here trolling his extremist crap under every topic.
The line between pro-Palestinian and anti-Semitic is dangerously thin in places.
Especially in the minds of people who want to revel in their righteousness.
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Is it because of mobile or ubo but I didn’t see the video? Pretty sure the start showed her dead tits in the back of a vehicle though? That was weird.
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If you think what happened to this girl was justified, not only are you broken, but you are no different than the people who support the genocide of Palestinians.
I don’t think it was justified.
Could it be because of never-ending attacks against civilians because they lost multiple wars yet refuse to negotiate for a viable peace?
Nah, must be because the Jews are mean. 🙄
yet refuse to negotiate for a viable piece?
Look at any colonized people who have made peace on their colonizer’s terms for why they might not want to do that.
Let’s see here, just off the top of my head:
Native Americans, Native Australians, Native South Africans.
To be fair, Palestine already resembles the reservations and slums the native people I mentioned have been forced into by their colonizers.
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Native Australians are called Aboriginals
How about new zealand tho?
I feel like you are missing the line between fighting for their freedom, and publicly raping innocent concert goers to death a bit, though. I completely understand them lashing out. I will never understand the targets that they chose to lash out at. It’s not smart from a strategic standpoint, even.
I’m not missing any line.
That’s just the realities of war.
It sure seems like it worked for the Irish.
We were the stereotype terrorist until 9/11
Now people unironically ask Irish bartenders for car bombs and don’t see the issue.
It’s never bothered me tbh, that’s an American thing. Never heard of it until I visited
Well if you stick to that braindead logic to justify terrorism you’re just going to get bombed with no support from modern nations.
When you declare a genocide on a group of people don’t be surprised when they fight back.
When you declare a genocide on a group of people don’t be surprised when they fight back.
So, to be clear here, you are condemning Israel here, correct? The ones who are actually perpetuating a genocide?
Sure if you count defending yourself from genocide as genocide also.
Learn history.
Israel started the genocide. For that matter, they have a long history of starting fights with their neighbors. Sometimes it works out for them, and sometimes it doesn’t, but the common theme is they always blame it on people wanting to genocide the Jews. Only idiots still fall for that shit.
Lucky for them, they have powerful allies that cover for them and drag their asses out of the fire each time. But public opinion is slowly changing, and at some point it’s going to tip and Israel is going to pick a fight where nobody comes to their rescue. When that happens, I hope I’m around to appreciate them receiving their just rewards for being truly inhuman monsters.
Not that any death is worth more or less than another, but it is surreal to know that the people killed at the music festival were privileged young people completely removed from the conflict, and most of the people killed in Gaza are poverty stricken children and starving adults.
War is ugly and unfair.
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Congratulations, you win the worst take of the day.
I hope you fit in.
Wow…just…wow…
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Yeah clearly anyone who can afford a vacation deserves to be kidnapped raped brutalized and paraded through the streets before being left to die as a hostage over 3 weeks.
No, that’s not clear at all.
But you should try to understand the insane excess these partygoers had compared to the squalor that Gazans have to live in.
It makes sense that with such disparity in qualities of life, those who feel they got the short end of the stick fight back against those who have too much.
This entire comment chain, as usual, is just people getting upset at criticizing excess wealth. Pretty much unless it’s a billionaire, you’re not allowed to criticize excess wealth.
The closer we get to the root of the problem, the more people we’ll find that contribute to it and the less we’ll find that are willing to admit it.
No it doesn’t make sense you rape apologizing dingbat.
I wonder what the travel logs for Gazans are like, and why that is.
I don’t actually spend my time wondering why because we all got a pretty good demonstration from Hamas as to why. Their attack pretty much ensured there won’t be a free Gaza for another generation…or two, or three.
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Why downvoted? As a parent, this is accurate. Snowflake overeducated cunts don’t want to hear it bc it doesn’t fit their anger narrative. Sheeeit, maybe they’ll need to be self aware and realize they’re celebrating innocents being murdered. Fake woke shitheads.
Well, some of the released hostages report that while the experience is traumatizing, they were treated relatively well once held hostage. Of course, the released hostages were a) mostly elderly citizen and b) the ones Hamas chose to release, so there might be a selection bias. But the treatment of surviving hostages might not be as bad as initially feared. Let’s hope they make it out soon and safely.
That old woman was beaten and robbed and kidnapped. She called the experience hell. You have a funny definition of treating her well.
Iirc, those people who were released worked on Palestinian causes.
With an emphasis on once held hostage. People were killed and mutilated during the kidnappings, the old lady who was later released was beaten with sticks and struggled to breathe during the motorcycle ride.
She said they were kept in clean rooms, slept on mattresses, and received medical attention. They received white cheese and cucumber for eating, and Hamas told them “We believe in the Quran: We’re not going to hurt you”. The former hostage, Oded, noted that they took care of even the smallest detail, and her son sad that “If everybody in there is in the same situation, there is room for optimism”.
This doesn’t justify any of the actions of the terrorist attack. Obviously the situation is awful. But there is a good chance the hostages are still allright, which is a glimmer of hope in an awful situation assuming you have any piece of your humanity still intact.
Furthermore, I don’t believe my original post was that unclear, and you’ve clearly read the reporting. You knew exactly what I was referring to, and you’re still out there wasting people’s time trying to fuel hate. As if there’s not enough of that already. Fuck off.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-24/ty-article/.premium/85-year-old-israeli-grandmother-recounts-hamas-captivity-says-government-deserted-us/0000018b-615d-d312-a1fb-f77f9aea0000
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/24/freed-israeli-hostage-hamas-attack-00123323With an emphasis on once held hostage.
Oh okay so if we ignore the bad, brutal, inhumane parts she was treated well. Got to set those goal posts very carefully to make her treatment seem acceptable.
“Besides that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?”
you’re still out there wasting people’s time trying to fuel hate.
Ah yes, clearly it’s my reactions to this fueling hate and not, you know all the murders. Maybe if I portrayed this old woman being kidnapped and beaten as humane it would calm things down? Is that what you’re doing?
What are you talking about? This entire comment chain is from someone talking about how hostages may be getting treated.
If anyone is moving goalposts, it’s you. Lol.
I mean there is a huge gap between being tortured and raped, and getting decent food and medical attention. So yeah, in the context of being a fucking war hostage, seems like they were treated fairly decently.
Hamas should get a gold star for only beating and robbing this woman and not raping and torturing her?
no, but the claim that Shani is now free from all the rape and violence is simply not accurate and fuels hatred unnecessarily.
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You watched too many movies
What does your comment even mean dude
The expression “You watched too many movies” is a common colloquial phrase that is used to convey the idea that an individual’s perspective or perception of a situation has been significantly shaped by their exposure to movies. It suggests that their understanding may be unrealistic or exaggerated due to the dramatic and often exaggerated scenarios frequently depicted in cinematic storytelling. In other words, the phrase implies that the person’s view of reality has been distorted by the influence of fictional narratives found in movies. It’s a way of saying that someone’s expectations or beliefs are not grounded in practical or realistic understanding but rather influenced by the world of fiction and entertainment.
This phrase is often used humorously or to highlight when someone’s expectations do not align with the actual facts of a situation.
I used to think it was just an excuse to be a dick, but a lot of people legitimately watch too many movies and it shapes their view of the world.
Nah. It’s just a normal reddit comment.
Tragic. Her poor mother stuck not knowing for 3 weeks… my heart goes out to them.
Tragic. Her poor mother stuck not knowing for 3 weeks… my heart goes out to them.
Yes, more tragic than this mother wearing her baby in her arms smashed by a - supposed - legal entity.
A civilian life is a civilian life but here, it is not me who breaks the balance! Disgusting!
more tragic than this mother wearing her baby in her arms smashed by a - supposed - legal entity.
can you point to the specific sentence where they even implied this, or are you actually just throwing a tantrum because someone said ‘man getting your daughter tortured and murdered must suck’
Take a breath. This is a human life that ended. Have respect and don’t diminish the loss. One day you will die too, and you would want people to treat your passing with respect and honor, not a talking point.
There are thousands of other threads you can hash out the unfairness of apartheid, and the realities of struggle, this isn’t the right place for that.
I am not diminishing her death. At this stage, it is indecent to talk about her death - and use it by the way in the most grossy way - while the Israeli army is stomping civilians, like deaf.
If they wanted to save her, the approach would have been:
- to cease bombing OR
- be real men and going on the field, not killing kids.
This is a human life, don’t twist her death into your talking point, that is disrespectful to her memory and to her family.
Go to literally any other world news post and start a argument there. You can make the same talking points.
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Fuck Hamas. They are a blight on the Palestinian cause.
Edit: Typo
blight?
Yes
thankfully we won’t have to worry about retaliation, I’m sure Israel is very reasonable
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Hamas earned this, not the rest of the innocent Palestinians who never had a choice on who represented them. The innocent Israeli citizens didn’t earn this either.
They probably should have left long ago when the Egyptian border was open for anyone who wanted to leave.
The crossing that Israel bombed? You do know why it was closed right?
“Long ago.”
It was closed because IDF attacked a tunnel under the wall near the crossing. It was open before then and it has been reopened since. Unfortunately, Egypt only lets out ~300/day so it’s probably unlikely that refugees are lucky enough to leave at present. Egypt cares more about not destabilizing themselves like other neighboring countries did than they do about Palestinian refugees.
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If you’re going to equate the dead children in Gaza with Hamas, you might as well say this lady “earned” it on account of the policies of the Israeli far right.
There’s no such thing as “earning” the mass murder of civilians.
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Hamas has kept power for almost two decades without an election, of which over 50% of the population of Gaza was too young to vote in, on account of them not being born.
Innocent people are dying because Israel propped up the terrorist Hamas to prevent a real, peaceful government from forming and bringing forward a two country solution.
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And no one cared about the terrorist regime - especially those who don’t have to live under Hamas and yell “Free Palestine”. Everyone liked Hamas well enough as long as they kill some jews once in a while.
I don’t know man. Everyone in my family that is politically active dislikes Fatah, especially Abbas, but they LOATHE Hamas. There are palestinian circles that curse Hamas for bringing about a second Naqba. It’s not as black and white as it appears.
It’s just that Gaza is a special case. It’s poor and miserable, hosting plenty fertile ground for extremist indoctrination. Have you ever tried arguing with someone from such a background about means of liberation and their justification? That’s a mighty complicated discussion.
Israel didn’t start this? Have you been under a rock since WWII ended?
You look over there, and then you look at the comments in here. It’s makes you wonder if the human race will ever live in peace. Shame on us all.
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So are 3000 Palestinian children.
But that article is particularly about her.
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This may come as a surprise to some whataboutists, but it turns out that multiple things can all be senseless tragedies at the same time.
Yeah, but one’s 3000 times worse.
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Picture that girl… pile of meat being raped to death. Picture hee mother picturing it. Call her a hot girl who’s life has no value some more. Great work humanist.
Yeah. Then picture ten times as many children being bombed, shot, and starved while living in horrendous conditions at the behest of their occupiers.
Damn, you right, this is justifiable
Picture that girl… pile of meat being raped to death.
He does so often. We all know why.
Leftists are such cannibals with their pity points maths. Reprehensible.
“pity points maths,” AKA logic.
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Thank you for pointing this out. I am a leftist. I am an athiest/agnostic from a Muslim family. I wholeheartedly condemn what Israel has done and is doing to Palestine. That being said, fuck Hamas so much. They are no better than the Israeli government and IDF, and they would be worse if they were the ones who had the upper hand. You can support the plight of the Palestinians while condemning Hamas. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
Conservative Islam is like Conservative Christianity with nothing to hold it back from going full crusade mode. Abrahamic religions are a curse on the world.
Conservative Islam is like Conservative Christianity with nothing to hold it back from going full crusade mode. Abrahamic religions are a curse on the world.
I agree, although I’d characterize them more as extremists than conservatives. There’s a lot of extremist Jews intentionally starting shit too; the way that some of the Orthodox Jews treat Palestinians is atrocious. Their flash-mob takeover of the Al-Aqsa Mosque was citied as one of the reasons for Hamas’ terror attack. When one believes that they are right, that they are the chosen ones, and are literally supported by God, it’s a recipe for endless conflict and atrocity with no end. Compromise becomes impossible without going against one’s conception of God.
I suspect all parties would behave differently if they gave up traditional myth and realized that we only have one go through this life and it’s not a prelude to something else.
Well said. Extremists is a good word, as there are religious people with conservative beliefs that still wouldn’t cross the line into violence.
I completely agree that the world would be better off if we could somehow shed the chains of harmful religions. The decline of religion seems to come about naturally with education and modernization as shown with the decline of Christianity in the modern western world. The myths start to lose their power when there is access to a bunch of evidence to the contrary of what some musty old book says.
Iran used to be a beautiful place when the people in charge there were focused on modernization instead of religion. As soon as conservative Muslims took over, the focus was put back on Islam, and the place is an authoritarian third world hellhole now.
I’m decently far left as well and my general opinion is that both sides of this conflict are bad guys. Ain’t no winners here.
Why do you think not wanting people to bomb children is simping for Hamas?
Why do you think giving a shit about bombing thousands of children is ‘concern trolling’?
Because “Muh Team.”
One cannot bomb Hamas without bombing children because Hamas hides behind children. If one allows this to prevent tactical bombing, it’s now a tactical advantage, so expect more of it.
They are keenly aware of the reaction that the inevitable deaths of children they caused will illicit in the media.
Of course Hamas could be deposed without the bombing if Gazans did it themselves… It would be nice if they showed as much concern for their own children’s safety as they expect Israel to.
So you see, we just have to bomb children. It’s the moral thing to do.
:wrings hands insincerely:
They’re all fucking innocent, you monsters.
True, but the 3000 Palestinian children don’t get a whole series of articles for each individual one. They’re just a number, and apparently a meaningless one, given the ferocity of attacks by the Israeli government that has no limit when it comes to “retaliation”.
Because the number three thousand is probably made up by Hamas. Hamas also doesn’t have a register of the young people they draw into their cause.
They also don’t first get the names of all the people living in an apartment complex before they start stockpiling guns there and start shooting rockets from there.
Because they don’t care for their names. They care for the fact that they can control international support by having a high number of civilian deaths.
In your opinion, how many women and children died?
Yeah how dare people naturally gravitate towards emblemizing a specific victim who’s name and face randomly surfaces past the rest early on as a representation of the ongoing crisis!
Nobody’s stopping you from writing an article about any of those 3000 kids if you care that much that someone else got spotlight coverage.
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Do you think it’s random?
Yes actually, most israelis look pretty much the same as most Gazans save for the gazans being more likely to be wearing a kuffiya
She’s German.
Same children whose shoulders Hamas used to prop up their guns while firing as Israeli soldiers?
No, the ones bombed by the IDF.
1 vs 3000 kids
Well more than 1… but also form and motive are important here.
The “1” was an innocent woman who was raped, tortured, and murdered slowly and publicly to spread terror because she was at a music festival.
The “3000” are civilian casualties of war because said terrorists are hiding behind them as a combat strategy.
Both are horrible, but you are making a false equivalency.
Who is his right mind goes to a festival when your country is “at war” though
The area was popular for concerts and festivals for both sides of the conflict, the Gaza music scene actually made regular use of the area because it makes it less likely Hamas’ goons are going to show up and drag them off the stage for not being muslim enough.
That’s like asking why do people keep having so many babies when their country is at war?
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A+ insult
Two of my other favorites,
“You’re the reason your teacher was a day drinker weren’t you.”
And
“All the sharp wit of a pickle ball.”
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