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It can be surprisingly difficult to get a therapist in the US if you don’t have insurance. Honestly, I found the process remarkably frustrating even with insurance.
I don’t know what it’s like in the other countries listed, but they all have much better healthcare systems than the US, so I imagine it’s much easier.
Can you get semi autos in Canada and the UK easily? Definitely can’t in Australia. The most you’re allowed is a rifle and only if you’re a farmer.
That’s not true. You can get a gun licence pretty easily in Australia. Anyone that passes a police background check can get one. Yeah it takes 6 months but that’s probably a good thing as well. You can’t just make an irrational emotional decision and get a gun.
Also the storage requirements are quite strict. You have to have a proper gun safe to own a gun.
Then it’s only single shot rifles and some pistols. We also have no public carriage. You can only move guns around from point to point, not just casually carry them.
It makes access to guns very hard for the average person. Yeah it doesn’t stop organised criminals having more dangerous weapons, but organised criminals aren’t going into schools and massacring people.
Strict gun control has been a really positive decision in Australia. Those who want to go hunting, still can, but kids, teenagers and crazy bastards have a very hard time getting them.
I suppose that’s true. I guess I was thinking about semi autos when I posted my comment and wasn’t considering much else. Pretty sure it’s impossible to get your hands on those as a civilian in Australia.
Those same people who point to mental health are the ones denying any kind of public funding to address such issues (aka voting “no” on proposed legislation). There might be similar rates of mental health challenges in other countries - but we can also acknowledge that the US lags far behind in offering any kind of supportive system for those in need.
Mental illness don’t kill people, uh uh;
I kill people, with mental illness
Dunno. Just recently(2 days ago) people without any guns hijacked an airport.
And are there mass shooting in Finland or Ukraine. Besides putin’s mob I mean.
people without any guns
A mob stormed and airports in Russia. Americans may see Europe as an exotic place, but mobs storming airports is pretty rare here.
So are mass shootings. While they happen, they’re very rare.
560 so far this year doesn’t sound rare
“Other crimes exist so let’s ignore the obvious gun problem in the US” thanks brainiac.
And are there mass shooting in Finland or Ukraine
Forgot question mark in the end. I’m not sure you are reading what I wrote, not what you imagine I wrote.
I’ll bite, so Finland has per capita the same amount of mass shootings as the US? Or are you disengenuously saying that mass shootings have occured there at some point?
Never heard about mass shootings in Finland. Maybe? The point is as far as I understand in Finland there are a lot of guns.
Jeeeeeesus christ
It’s not even like Canada even gives a shit about mental health.
Apparently the Ontario prime minister had heard a out how much people were suffering post pandemic - - - and then cut funding to the point that people could only get 10 sessions with a consoler (not even a psychologist or anything special!)
One only needs to walk around some neighborhoods in Vancouver (hello, Hastings!) to see how much Canada cares about mental healthcare
see how much Canada cares about mental healthcare
Canada, or anywhere else, people do care about mental health care, at least until they have to pay more taxes to take care of it.
I love on Vancouver and it’s very visible here how much people care about mental healthcare
wtf is a consoler
better be some kind of empathetic stripper
And it does lead to mass shootings but Americans have to think they are special
If you’re thinking of guns, remember that cars kill way more.
Also, propaganda influences you. Yes you. So don’t be so sure.
this is the weirder equivalent of pit bull owners crying about Chihuahuas
I guess cars do kill a lot of people. We should make take tests before they’re allowed to use them. And they should have to register them. Oh, and they should have to have insurance if they plan to use them. Oh oh, and there should be some kind of enforcement of proper use of them. Oh oh oh…
That sure solved all the problems with cars and automobile related deaths.
Didn’t it dramatically reduce them?
Yes, but gun nuts are the dumbest pieces of shit you’ll ever encounter in your life. You’re wasting your time by trying to explain simple concepts like this.
I don’t know you but I would hope someone will have spent some time with rural peoples before making claims like this.
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Not the the point that they are lower than any other kind of violent death. Even with all the regulations and licensing requirements for cars, they still kill more people than guns or any other kind of object that can be dangerous.
Oh, cool - we’re pretending there are no other differences between the countries listed, e.g. healthcare, social safety nets, etc. that may or may not have been shown to be an unavoidable majority of the underlying issues.
Gotta enjoy the meme circlejerk though, eh?
as a australian this is complete crap people here either alcoholics, depressed or corrupt politicians
It’s literally because guns are hard to get here. I’d have killed myself by now if they weren’t.
you can always go be black near a cop and that would get you executed pretty quick
Not really how things work in the UK.
Tall buildings are also a thing. I tried ODing but now I’m glad it didn’t work out.
same. fr tho glad you’re still here.
It’s literally because they have free healthcare.
*Free lol
🤓👆
Are you ok? I know life hits hard sometimes and I get what you’re saying, but that sounds like you’re in a bit of a dark place right now.
I’m just some random internet idiot from Canada but if you need someone to vent to, I’d be happy to listen, as I’m sure many others would be. No judgement.
Just had my heart broken, she slept with another guy while I was helping my friend prepare his house for his sister (while she was being evacuated from a war zone). She suddenly blocked my number and when I finally bumped into her at the gym (two weeks later) she grinned when I said my feelings were hurt by that. I feel utterly emasculated, worthless and ugly, to the point I see something grotesque when I look in the mirror. It’s really peculiar. Maybe it’s okay, there wasn’t much heart left to break.
Ah yup that would do it, she sounds like a real piece of work that one.
I dated a girl “J” for a few years once. She was pretty hot, we got along well, and I thought I was in love with her. I blew lots of money on her, and near the end even lent her enough money to buy a minivan that she had wanted to replace her shitty car with the deal being that she’d pay be back the money in installments when she could afford it. Then she tried ghosting me and refused to pay me anything. (I learned later that she started hanging around some other guy right after I loaned her the money.) Long story short, I was just a tool for her to use because I made good money at the time. ( I did eventually get most of my money back but it wasn’t easy or nice.) It really hurt to get taken advantage of by someone who I loved and thought loved me back.
Now, many years later I realize I wasn’t in love with her at all… I was only in love with who I thought she was. The flags were there, I was too dumb to pay attention to them. The real “J” didn’t deserve the time of day from me, let alone all I did for her. To be honest it doesn’t sound like this lady is worth your love either.
I just wanted somebody to love, I think. And she was very pretty. I was ready to pay half the fees for her Master’s degree, I guess it’s a good thing it didn’t get that far but hard to see things that way at the moment.
hard to see things that way at the moment.
For sure, it’s hard to see clearly when your heart is broken. I was the same way. They say time heals all wounds, but it sure as hell doesn’t feel that way when you’re depressed and sad. I stopped dating for several years after my ordeal just to try and get all my ducks in a row again and focused on myself. I knew it wasn’t my fault but that didn’t make me feel any better. Hell, I’m still a bit mad at myself for ignoring the signs and letting it get as far as it did.
I wish I could say that you will find the right one that will love you as much as you love her, but I’m no psychic. But what I do know is there are many women out there that have had the same experience you and I have had that are in, or have been in the same boat. They are not easy to find because they tend to withdraw from others just like I had. But they are out there, sometimes in the least expected places. And all they want is to be loved for who they are, just like you and me.
How did you get those ducks in a row? My life is not great, and I have a hard time creating opportunities for myself even though I’m an extremely hard worker.
Well, I guess whether I ever actually succeeded in getting them in a row would be a matter of opinion lol. I don’t make nearly the kind of money I used to, in fact money is pretty tight the last little while for me. I was a hard worker too, always the first one to jump to get things done and everywhere I worked I was always getting raises and was the one to be trusted with getting things done. But then at one point I had a bad accident at work that didn’t do me any favors in the least bit.
Between the accident and me getting older I’m not in great shape anymore. I get bad headaches, My back is shot, my right hand only has a limited range of motion, my knees are crap, my lungs are scarred, my kidneys hate me, blah blah blah.
So now I live out in the boonies near a tiny village of about 400 people with my oldest daughter who has cerebral palsy. My other daughter lives nearby about a half km away, and I spend most of my time helping them out and fixing their stuff, and trying to make friends with the local stray cats. Not where I expected to end up considering I’ve always been a hyper-active “go go go” type of person but that’s ok… It’s not much, but I’m happy with that for whatever time I have left.
Running statistical analysis on the data now. Preliminary results suggest video games as the main causal effect.
Are you sure it’s not Dungeons and Dragons and that heavy metal music?
And don’t forget about Tarot cards and Astrology!
Are you sure it’s not vaccines? Either the vaccine the shooter took made them do it, or if they weren’t vaccinated the vaccines in the people around them!
For the record, we have video games, D&D and tarot cards up here in Canada.
No you dont Canada is a frozen wasteland populated exclusively by Moose. Except Newfoundland their real.
those other countries still have issues.
They just don’t have easy access to guns. Doesn’t mean the guy with schizophrenia down the street found a compound bow and hasn’t been threatening people and requires 5 police officers each and every time someone calls it in.
It doesn’t mean the guy who set himself on fire the other day was a figment of everyone’s imagination.
It doesn’t mean the guy stabbing people in the neck just outside of one of the main stations because the bible told him to doesn’t exist
Or the other guy wielding a machete outside another one of the stations threatening people with it just didn’t happen.
It doesn’t mean there isn’t domestic violence because of someone’s underlying undiagnosed problems.
please stop downplaying mental illness and violence.
I don’t think it’s a mental health problem per se - I think American society is sick.
And I don’t mean sick as in “something happened to you all” - I mean sick as in “you all willingly participate in it together”
There are plenty of other countries with guns who don’t have the same kinds of mass killings the USA does.
The problem as I see it is that so many Americans are just so fucking emotional about everything.
Everything’s a drama, or a story that needs to be be told, of a journey, or an underdog, or revenge, or a protector. Are musical montage. “I just have to tell you where I have come from” - “you just need ro know my roots”
Every disagreement is a fascist or a communist.
Nothing just “is”.
Everything has to have bullshit emotional content and context.
The trouble is none of you will ever see yourselves as part of the problem.
You’re in a narcissistic trap.
Liberals are 100% certain that “it’s the guns” and get absolutely high saying it.
But it’s not the guns. Canada has guns.
Loads of other countries have guns.
You’re all fucking hysterical.
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Insert Fight Club quotes. We’ve known for years. The American Dream is consumed by everyone from everywhere and when it doesn’t come true, no one knows what to do.
It’s called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.
Meh. Many other people from many other countries believed it. I hear ya. It’s apt for today. But it didn’t used to be that way
It was always that way, things look great when you build on the beach, not so much when the tide comes.
Everything’s a drama, or a story that needs to be be told
Well you should ask yourself if you’re an outsider looking in through the lens of our media.
Because if you are, and you see us through our media, our media is very focus on profit generation, and gives a very ‘two sides fighting’ view of everything that is America, as that drives viewership and profits the most.
It’s from when I actually meet you lot. I won’t even date Americans now in my city - it’s just always some drama.
I’m sure not all Americans are like that and I’ve worked with some really cool ones - no doubt, but there’s definitely a culture of emotional drama that contributes to an unhealthy greater society.
Americans you meet
You’ll find there’s a huge difference in attitude between what I call tourists and travellers.
Immigrants and expats too.
(In Americans outside of the USA)
It’s from when I actually meet you lot.
It’s a lot of Americans to have met to make a blanket statement like you did though.
I’m sure not all Americans are like that and I’ve worked with some really cool ones - no doubt, but there’s definitely a culture of emotional drama that contributes to an unhealthy greater society.
Well one thing to understand about America is there’s multiple/many cultures, not just one, and it depends on what region of the country you’re viewing. And then on top of that there’s two or three meta cultures.
Also, you’re not catching us at our best right now, we are pretty angry at each other here over politics right now, so try to consider that as well.
No one is perfect 100% of the time.
TL;DR: it is the guns, but it isn’t just the guns. It isn’t any one thing and it isn’t not any one thing.
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it IS the guns. It’s hard / difficult to massacre with knives.
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it IS mental health too.
Canada, Australia, UK, etc have horrifically underfunded and backed up mental health care systems - but yes, still far better than anything in the USA.
- Canada has guns. Australia has guns. Neither has as many guns as the USA. Neither is as easy or cheap or widely available as in the USA. Restricting guns is what actually happens and is meant by your imaginary liberals and guns. They don’t mean that farmers shouldn’t have guns - they know that as a tool, they’re useful. I’m not saying hyperbole isn’t used (which pisses me off as much as you). But what I am saying is they’re right. It’s the guns. It’s the amount of guns. It’s the types of guns.
Which brings me to:
- using words like “hysterical” doesn’t help. It’s misleading, and plain wrong.
And yeah, I’ve gone off from your main point of “the USA is too emotionally extreme”. This is… not wrong, but I want to argue overly simplistic. I (and others) have described the USA not as one country, but 50 or so (I’m not sold on the Dakota twins) countries that are loosely bound by their xenophobia of everyone else more than anything else. The country wasn’t founded on a love of the USA, but the hatred of the UK.
I mean, the UK isn’t really that much different. Remember Northern Ireland and Great Britain? Scotland and England? If they had guns like the USA had guns… woo.
So, America being a drama, etc? You’re not wrong. It’s an ideology that was instilled at birth, and raised by capitalism - money from engagement, and emotionally trapped people are engaged. It’s a society/system created, used and trapped by itself.
And guns are what turns that bubbling cauldron into massacres.
And massacres make the emotional drama cauldron bubble more.
Get rid of guns, you get rid of a lot of stress and drama. You don’t solve all problems, but you solve one that is repeating and feeding the drama machine.
Sell the guns to South America/ Israel / wherever they want to ruin next, and use the money to fund affordable housing or something. Solved two birds with one stone!
PS: I’d love to see the USA fundamentally change in one big way: a stronger, standardised federal government. For example, let states do state elections however they want. But if you’re voting in a federal election, it should be the same forms, same design, same level of access everywhere in the country. If you can drive freely between states, driving rules and tests should be standardised (they basically are, rural vs city aside). Education? Anything which affects and creates a level playing field across the country, ie. federally, should be standardized. If a state wants to charge sales tax, and another doesn’t - that’s fine! That’s local.
In the same vein, remove weird voted-in positions, like judges and sheriffs. Emotional, populist,partisan involvement in roles that are supposed to be neutral and balanced is insane.
And the guns aren’t helping.
Look, I don’t think it’s merely about mental health spend either.
I genuinely think that Americans are not very laid back.
It’s mir magic - some nations are more laid back than others.
You say the word “hysterical” doesn’t help.
But it’s what you need to hear.
Everything has to be coated with so much sugar you all get fat and the meaning is lost.
Yeah. That’s what’s it is. You’re just all always looking for drama and shit to get upset about.
It’s not more complicated than that. It doesn’t need everyone to sit down and get to therapy or make a TV show show about your pain.
It’s just that you’re all always looking for drama.
You are simply describing the effects of political and social polarization. I blame it primarily on a decades-long process of consolidation of wealth, influence and opportunity in the hands of an elite few, but no doubt there are other factors at play as well.
On the flipside I am very much opposed to any theory of the case that has it as being somehow uniquely American. It’s not an American thing; it’s a human thing that can happen in any country and has in fact happened in many countries throughout history. It does not require that we posit some kind of national hysteria that’s unique to Americans when we can, with far fewer assumptions, simply point to polarization.
Polarisation isn’t that bad in Europe. We take things in our stride better.
We’re not constantly freaking out over tiny things.
America seems neurotic.
Polarisation is absolutely that bad or worse in Europe. Poland and the UK are two good examples.
Oh, and holy shit, Germany, etc. with lockdowns and such with covid. They went nuts.
Oh, and how about riots in France every year? Come on. For a relatively small country, they flip out and set fire to things WAY more often than the USA does.
Yes, polarization is the relevant factor, as I said. What part about this do you not understand?
It’s not as if Europe has a great record in this sense either. One look at the last century tells us everything we need to know about how susceptible European populations are to polarization.
Damn, this should be copied and pasted to everyone arguing its not guns, you’ve covered basically ALL of the talking points incredibly well
Man, voted in positions sound so reasonable and logical and democratic, it’s a real bummer it doesn’t work in our current systems. You just end up introducing marketing to everything, ugh.
It is completely unreasonable in every respect.
Positions should be based on merit, not money (advertising) and popularity. Judges and sheriffs have to make judgement calls all the time, and I’d prefer to have people with experience and without bias (as much as possible), instead of bought and paid for. Also, accountable to the system, not just the next election.
I am very much oversimplifying it, and skipping some issues, such as other existing systemic problems - but in short: what’s popular is not always right. Like mobs.
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It also doesn’t help when we have fear mongering passing as legitimate news.
Youre not entirely wrong, but I gotta say how funny it is to see a post complaining about how everyone blows each other’s positions way up fisish by saying American liberals want to take away all guns. I’m sure you can find an American liberal that says that, but they’re in a massive minority. Most of us would be very happy with Canada’s level of gun control. You have to take a gun safety class and pass a safty test for any gun, with an extra class and test and a license for hand guns and assault rifles.
Canada also has a system for helping people with mental health problems that doesn’t bankrupt the person.
Im pretty sure that’s exactly what the Democrats have been asking for for the last 30 odd years.
Yeah but there are lots of people saying it’s the guns (literally in this thread) - that’s basically what the OP is about. But even then the right wing acting like scared little babies about it too.
It’s just everything is turned up to 11 with you lot.
All the fucking time.
Says the person who wrote a comment filled with hyperbole and points taken to their extremes.
Where’s the hyperbole?
You use the word everything a lot and phrases like “you’re all”. That’s hyperbole. You can’t possibly know what all 330+ million people think or how everyone acts and are likely basing your views off what you see on social media or in the news, not real life.
As an American who’s about as progun as you can get and still think the government has a responsibility to tax its wealthiest citizens and keep it’s poorest out of poverty, I’d welcome the same level of gun control as we apply to owning motor vehicles: license programs to ensure everyone who can legal own/operate one is familiar with safe use, practice and undergone a bare minimum level of mental evaluation so that a psycopath or sociopatn can’t just have a bad day to turn it on the general public. It would be a tough pill to swallow for some gun owners but if it was paired with removing a lot of the baseless restrictions (looking at you California compliant) with regular requirements such as yearly renewals and checkups with the ability for referrals to be made if a person starts acting in a way they could become a danger and law enforcement required to act upon it or face immediate termination if they were found to ignore it.
Combine that with single payer/universal healthcare with a comprehensive mental health for every citizen and it could lead to better diagnosing people suffering from conditions that could make them a threat to public safety and get them treatment that would hopefully help them live and not suffer from such conditions to say nothing of lower the chances for these violent outbursts.
Its a fantasy, yes I know. But the current system clearly doesn’t work, and prohibition and war on drugs has shown repeatedly that restricting everyone to stop the minority of abusers only makes a massive underground/black market for such things that actually makes it easier to people to abuse them in ways that are more difficult to track and prevent. I’d rather try to make the fantasy work than pursue a method I know is only goin to have short term benefits and long term problems.
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I mean sick as in “you all willingly participate in it together”
Not to detract from your well written comment, but there is something of a disconnect between the will of the populace and those who enact the laws.
I’m not talking about the laws. I’m talking about personality wise, you’re all so bloody emotional and feel everything is some important story or drama.
Well I’m describing the reasons why people may get “emotional and feel everything is some important story or drama”.
Our propaganda machine is generational and runs deep.
A good thing to remember the next time you downvote the bastard.
Isn’t it interesting that tons of people own guns in America and DON’T shoot people? Or the fact that we had crazy people and assault weapons previously without mass shootings.
Looking at these issues as if they’re either-or is ridiculous. Of course you’re going to need a multivariate approach. You’re not going to get rid of the guns, and you’re not going to get rid of crazy people. We need to address gun laws, mental health laws, and societal collapse overall. There’s no singular approach that will fix everything.
ah the pro-gun weirdo lemmings have come out once again.
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Jesus Christ… Where’s the humanity? They called you a pro-gun weirdo lemming (reddit ≈ redditor; lemmy ≈ lemming) and nowhere did they state or even suggest that you were subhuman. Suggesting someone might deserve an active shooter? Nah man, fuck you all the way to Pluto and back.
Btw, I actually agreed with your original message. It’s your response to the comment that I’m criticising.
all the way to Pluto and back.
Interrupting just to say Pluto is an effing planet.
Carry on.
I think they were referring to the Underworld of the Roman Pantheon
I think they were referring to the Underworld of the Roman Pantheon
Exotic, but possible.
Username checks out
Actually, “pro-gun weirdo lemming” and “subhuman” are about 60% synonymous.
Ngl the lemming thing went over my head too, so thanks for explaining
New to Lemmy. Don’t call me a lemming. The connotations are insulting.
Also if you dismiss my perfectly cogent argument as being from a weird pro gun nut…then fuck you go die in a fire, you’re not here to discuss you’re here to insult. In which case if you wanna get nuts, let’s get nuts. I hope the baby Jesus pisses on their corpse
You won’t get real far with an attitude like this. Tit for tat and turned up to 1000. You’re clearly very defensive over being called anything and still need to figure out who exactly you think you are. If some simple name calling (“lemming”) is enough to make you fly inyo attack mode like that and wish an active shooter on someone, you’ve still got a very long way to go.
Not defensive, dismissive. Simple prisoner’s dilemma. I start off nice. If you’re not nice back, then die in a fire.
He called me a lemming. Fuck him.
Lemming, because you’re on lemmy?People on reddit are called redditors, no? People making content on YouTube are called YouTubers. People who stream are called streamers. I’m sure there are more.
I could see the “weirdo” part being offensive, but I’m confused why you’re upset about the lemming part. This is on lemmy. We are all lemmings, technically.
It would be like using discord and then getting upset with someone for calling you a discord user.
a pro gun weirdo lemming.
If that’s how he’s gonna talk to me I’ll talk shit back.
We are all lemmings here. Lemming is colloquial slang for a person who uses Lemmy. That’s all. I think you replied to yourself, btw.
He still called me a pro gun weirdo for saying you’re not going to be able to disarm America. If that’s the level of discourse, then America deserves school shooters.
If you go far enough left you get your gun rights back
ah the fucking horsesh
oeit theory.no you don’t, the only purpose of guns is to kill someone, that is not very respectful of their bodily autonomy, is it?
Do a search to find out who said the following:
“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.”
the only purpose of guns is to kill someone, that is not very respectful of their bodily autonomy, is it?
Yes, if they aren’t respecting your rights, they have forfeited theirs
You’re stopping short on the “kill all landlords” scale, there
guillotines exist mate and much harder tp shoot up a school with them
Our propaganda machine is generational and runs deep.
And I’m not necessarily talking about the other guys.
you’re a perfect example of it, actually.
Just wipe out the guns and no more school shootings, stupid.
No annual school shooting is Indonesia, Malaysia, Japan, China, Hongkong, Australia and people like you still defend it.
So retarded view. Go more left till nothing’s right.
That’s just a fantasy, and it’s impossible.
Excuse.
“just”
no, they just stab you to death, but guess what? you’re still dead
But at least the person next to me was able to run away and get help or call the authorities.
and the police will be armed with?
a. Magic
b.Stick
c. Gun
- Tazer
- Pepperspray
Okay, how? Are you signing up to go door to door?
Sign the law, order everyone to surrender or face imprisonment. See, that is easy.
So many excuses thrown around.
Will you volunteer to go collect guns from people?
Who says collecting door to door again? Reading comprehension
Are you that naive? I am saying that is an inevitability.
When people refuse to surrender weapons, what do you suppose the step after that is? Arresting someone for not turning in their weapon; which will lead to several violent encounters. This will create additional loss of life, and I thought that was the problem we need to solve.
Australia did it. This really is an American problem
Then do it. Few losses here and there than perpetual cycle of deaths, naive guy.
Or, ya know, it could be both?
Can we stop making these things into a false dichotomy?
It’s not even a good example. We just had a mass murder in Canada not too long ago.
