- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
DoorDash now warns you that your food might get cold if you don’t tip::The app-based delivery service is alerting customers that drivers may not take their order in a timely manner if there is no tip included upfront.
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‘That’s a really nice and hot meal you’ve got there. It would be a shame if it were to be… how you say… room temperature when it arrived.’
WTF?
The order through Door Dash:
- $20
- $2 Tax
- $8 Door Dash Charge
- $6 Initial Tip
- $10 for the Substitution up charge
- $1 Tax for that purchase
- $9 ‘Fuck you’ charge
- $4 Follow Up Tip Total: $60 for your $20 meal you could’ve just gotten your own damn self.
This.
I’ve basically started a Shit List of local restaurants that I simply won’t order from because they do shit like this.
Not just delivery either. If they want to gouge customers like that I’m not getting take out or dining in either.
“Drivers will retaliate against you if you do not cover the part of their wage we refuse to pay them.”
There, fixed that for you, DoorDash.
I used to work in that crummy space on the HQ side of things.
That’s a little part of it, but there are bigger reasons. Orders with low driver payouts are less likely to get claimed by the contractors in the market. They will sit around longer waiting to get picked up.
Moreover, in order to move a low paying order, DoorDash’s algorithm will be more likely to bundle the order with one or two other orders. That will boost the payout or the claimed job, but it will also make your food wait on a counter an in a car.
We all get that
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Hey, I’m the first one in line to shit talk gig economy work. Christ, my ass got canned for being a highly internal visible leader, at large delivery service, who was constantly leading and highlighting internal research that showed big concerns with pay (or lack thereof).
That said, if you want to know why orders without tips come cold, it’s primarily because low dollar amounts are undesirable to claim.
DoorDash wants likes to dupe the customer instead of just charging the real full service price at checkout. $5 isn’t enough money for someone to want to spend 45min in time and gas for your burger.
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@[email protected] Ignore this asshole
100%
They were definitely not assuming good intent. I was just trying to provide some dirt that others might not be aware of.
Seems genuine to me. Why are you being a prick while adding nothing to the discussion?
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You tried to say that it wasn’t DoorDash’s fault for paying like shit, but then went on to qualify every other reason with “low paying order” - none of that would matter if DoorDash didn’t pay like shit.
Oh, it’s 100% doordash’s fault. I completely agree. The base pay needs to be livable.
My point was that it’s not like a dasher is going to slow walk your burger because you didn’t tip. If they see a low payout, they don’t claim it.
DoorDash likes to guilt trip the customer into tipping, when they really should just pay better.
They know that by having a separate tip line, instead of one larger service fee charge, people get tricked into thinking delivery is more affordable than it is. It’s all a bunch of dark pattern shit that fucks over customers and drivers. We need regulations around this space.
It seems like ticket master with the fees at the end and then have people go well I’m already this far into the cart so I might as well check out, or electronics where the starting price is low then few upgrades and price is more than double the initial eye catching low base price.
It’s all pricing tricks except in this one they shift the blame to customers and workers while upper management watches them fight. And tricked people into saying it’s somehow impossible to actually charge a product to account for all the overhead because it’s a services and acting like every other monetary based activity isn’t a service too but doesn’t have pricing problems.
Delivery drivers are independent contractors and DoorDash facilitates the meeting of drivers and customers. The fees go towards DoorDash and the driver, and the customer can add an additional payment to the driver to make their order more enticing to accept. There’s no “refusing to pay wages” in this situation. If you want to go with the ultra low cost option, it will not be attractive to drivers so you may wait longer.
Huh, who knew they had their legal reps on the fediverse.
Geez, I hope they’re paying you to suck their dick this hard
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Yeah this is why I only use GrubHub now. I still tip well cause I appreciate people who bring me food and I can afford it.
Huh, good to know, thanks. I don’t use those services often now that Covid is going away, but if I need to again it’s good to know that one isn’t as quite as shitty.
Yeah, let me know how to get GrubHub to even respond to a support request for an order that never arrived, much less refund me and then you can tell me GrubHub is better. I had an order that was never delivered on Sept 23 and GrubHub has still not responded to or refunded me. At least with Doordash or UberEats I can get issues with my order addressed almost immediately.
Charge it back. If you didn’t get service, no reason they should get money.
Weird, I’ve gotten refunded by them easily in the past.
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I did that. There were no options, just a dialogue saying they had refunded me a couple dollars for a price mismatch. But no button to report an issue on the app or web, no chat, no email or phone number. Just a Contact Us form that I filled out and submitted with all the information nearly a month ago, and no one from GrubHub has reached out. I finally just did a chargeback a couple days ago.
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You can twist the words all you like, but DoorDash is still an employer, and they still pay like shit.
DoorDash is an “employer” as in they have employees, but the drivers are independent contractors. Employees at DoorDash are support staff, coders, etc. DoorDash pay is clearly good enough to attract many independent contractors to deliver for them, and because they are contractors they have all the options.
Them being contractors is legal bullshit. Many of the apps forbid you from running other apps at the same time, they assign orders to you, it’s not an open list, and if you deny too many orders most of the apps will stop assigning you orders. They’re de facto employees that the companies lie about to not pay taxes and benefits
Them being contractors is legal bullshit.
What makes it “legal bullshit”? They are legally independent contractors, and that’s not something that we’re just taking their word for. There are legal tests to determine whether or not someone is an employee or an independent contractor, and there have been lawsuits about this topic as well.
Many of the apps forbid you from running other apps at the same time
Many? I’ve not heard of this, can you name them? As far as I understand it’s quite common for drivers to multi-app.
they assign orders to you, it’s not an open list
Orders are offered to drivers who then choose whether or not to accept them.
They’re de facto employees that the companies lie about to not pay taxes and benefits
That’s your opinion. As of right now it’s not backed up by anything substantial, and it’s not looking likely to change. You don’t need to accuse companies of serious fraud just because you don’t like them.
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I’m aware they are legally “contractors”. It’s bullshit.
There HAVE been lawsuits, yes! And DoorDash lost the class action that alleged they misclassified its workers as independent contractors when they should be classed as employees. They paid 100mil for that, and that’s just one case.
But don’t just take my word for it. Here’s Californias labor laws on the test for determining employee vs contractor;
Under the ABC test, a worker is considered an employee and not an independent contractor, unless the hiring entity satisfies all three of the following conditions:
- The worker is free from the control and direction of the hiring entity in connection with the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of the work and in fact;
- The worker performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business; and
- The worker is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation, or business of the same nature as that involved in the work performed.
No, it’s simply the quickest way to add an additional income for desperate people needing a second job. No interviews, no resume needed, you don’t even need a car.
I quit after I realized it was costing more in gas and car maintenance than I was making. Imagine driving 20 miles for $3. With pick up and drop off, that’s at least half an hour. At that rate, you’re making $6/hour. It absolutely 100% depends on customer tips to actually pay it’s dashers
Yea so I’m a driver and the characterization that it’s drivers retaliating against customers is… wrong. When we skip an order it’s because it will literally cost us money to deliver, and it’s DoorDash that we’re saying no to.
The problem isn’t the drivers, it’s DoorDash and their unwillingness to pay us appropriately. They’ve recently reduced the base payout to $2, and there’s no delivery where $2 is enough to cover costs of delivery, let alone make the extra few bucks that we’re doing this shitty job for.
DoorDash is actively disincentivizing drivers from taking orders that customers don’t tip on. Please don’t blame drivers for DoorDash’s shitty business practices.
Then why do it? Aren’t regular Uber/Lyft trips more worth it?
The legroom in my backseat (‘13 Ford Focus) is garbage and wildly uncomfortable. I also don’t really like people enough for that and prefer doing delivery, on top of having a bit more control over where I operate by delivering. I live in a small city north of Seattle and can keep my deliveries all within 5 miles and still make $30/hour. I don’t think I could do that doing rideshare.
Do you actually make $30 an hour after you factor in gas, maintenance, milage, etc?
No, def not. I’m talking gross. I set aside half for taxes, car maintenance, gas, etc, and keep about 15/hour.
Car insurance costs go up quite a lot of you do Uber
Fucking… LIE god damn. The insurance company isn’t gonna find out your doing Uber unless you tell them.
They will easily find out when it shows up in a police report for a fender bender.
I wouldn’t call it retaliation. If one person offers you $10 and another offers you $15 for the same job, you’re going to opt for the one that pays more. That’s not the driver “getting one over”, it’s just basic economics. It’s not like Door Dash is going to make up the difference.
In an ideal world they would remove any tip lines and just pay their workers a reasonable wage.
But honestly I can’t wait for Zipline deliveries to become a thing.
It shouldn’t be set up so the customer has to pay more to get good service. They should be able to add a tip afterward if they choose.
I agree but I installed the “shopper” app which is the driver side for instacart while I was between jobs earlier this year. The way it worked is you get an alert so you open the app if someone placed an order. You then see where the order is, how much you will make and can accept it if you want. If doordash works similarly what it sounds like to me is you open the app, and see $x dollars and where it is at and decide if it is worth it to them. If they decide it isn’t, the restaurant is still making that food and waiting on another driver to accept the pickup. So if you open the app and see 3 orders, the ones that pay more and are closest to you is likely what you will choose. So if someone had a McDonald’s order and a BK order and one is paying a lot more) they are going to have a much better time. That is all based off the theory that it works like the instacart setup.
Who the heck is still using it and the ones like it past the point of once? The few times I played with it just to check it out the meal was 3x the price of getting it myself. I have used it twice while on work travel and both times the food was cold and messed up.
Don’t like the concept, stop using the service. It’s that simple.
But also that annoying, because this model where your ““tip”” becomes a bribe is a cancer upon society that needs to be eliminated.
DoorDash “tips” are done before your food arrives, not after, and you can’t change them after you order.
They’re not tips, they’re bribes.
How about letting us tip afterwards not before. That way we know how much to tip.
It would be much worse for the drivers in that case because they would have to gamble on whether an order would be good to take or not. We’ve already seen something similar on Uber Eats where they allowed people to fully change tips retroactively, so people would get their orders accepted quicker with a large tip and then just remove it once they got their food.
It’s not a tip then. A tip is a reward for services rendered. A tip paid before services are rendered is not a tip. It is part of the bill.
Whine some more then, it’s not going to change. It’s more important that drivers get paid than you saving a few bucks.
I get why people are annoyed by tips and why, but god damn some of you sound entitled as fuck on social media.
You can’t have it both ways. If drivers get paid a living wage it’s still going to come out of your pocket one way or the other.
Tips are arbitrary anyway. Fuck tipping culture. I don’t get delivery because it’s too expensive and I can do it myself for cheaper. But if you want something and pay the bill that gets charged for the service then that should pay for everything including the employees.
Yes, exactly. They copied the traditional food delivery formula but should have modified it to fit the contractor model.
As someone that worked in the space, and was forced to AB test this, it’s because pre-tipping increases tip rates and increases the likelihood that an order will be claimed promptly.
That said, if I could wave a magic want and get my way, I’d say that these people need to be employees, and true delivery costs need to not be hidden in fees and tips.
It IS expensive to deliver stuff, and we need to be upfront with that.
How about ditching tips altogether and just paying the drivers a decent, livable wage?
This
My local pub in Australia just got new POS machines. Day 1 I’m there. They put in the price for your beer on the till, you go to PayPass and walk off, but it’s asking you to tip first. You say “No Tip”, then PayPass and walk off, but then it asks if you’re happy to accept the 1% CC surcharge, being like 9¢. Then you can walk off.
The staff were losing it and apologising. They were so annoyed they just started hitting “No Tip” and “Yes” for people, because that’s how it normally works.
Lowest level minimum wage for someone pouring beer is $24 an hour here.
People still throw cash in the tip jars from time to time, but it’s like when they really appreciate the staff or see they’re having a hectic shift. Even just good conversation or chucking your tunes on, will empty the pocket change in.
That’s how tips should be. Where I live it’s the same probably even more on the no-tipping side. I’ll leave a tip when you’ve gone above and beyond (which is rare, service here is “sober” to put it gently, which is fine, it’s somewhat efficient but just not personal at all).
Or, if you’re the Italian head of bar at the fancy restaurant I took my wife out for anniversary dinner, got seated at a bar table and then you proceed to both entertain us, rock the venue, swap out our inexperienced waitress for the maître d’hôtes, and pour us free drinks on the sly, then you better be sure I’m slipping you a 20€ on the way out. That stuff is extremely rare though.
No my tip would be for being lazy and then actually getting it to me fast and correct. Which is why I said afterwards tip not before, because that means I’m not funding their underpaid wage.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
DoorDash has added a pop-up in its app this week warning customers that orders with no tip might take longer to get delivered.
The move appears to be an effort by DoorDash to show customers that drivers are likely going to prioritize more profitable work.
According to DoorDash spokesperson Jenn Rosenberg, the prompt is “something that we’re currently testing to help create the best possible experience for all members of our community.”
It appears the pilot is not live in every locale; one Verge colleague in New Jersey got it, while another in South Carolina didn’t.
While tipping isn’t something anyone who lives in America should be surprised about doing (or should ever consider not doing without a really good reason), pre-tipping is a relatively new concept in our gig economy.
Update October 31st, 4PM ET: Added statement from DoorDash confirming the message is part of a test it’s piloting.
The original article contains 529 words, the summary contains 150 words. Saved 72%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
I have no problem tipping, I have a problem with DoorDash and Grubhub calculating the tip on the total bill with all their fees included.
I have no problem tipping 20% with a $4 minimum, but it’s going to be based on the meal I ordered, not your bullshit service fees.
Gonna be real boss, as a driver for DD, delivery drivers don’t care what you ordered. They care about mileage, pickup & drop off times, and stairs. A $5 tip will cover most sane orders. $10 will usually cover insane orders / stairs.
If you’re concerned about timing, tip $5 and then text them when they are assigned the order and let them know it is time sensitive and that you’ll add cash tip on arrival for prompt delivery.
Tipping is weird to me. Since every other business doesn’t have tips because they already price their services or products correctly to account for their employees salary, since it is 100% their responsibility as the employer.
This shifting of responsibility and blame to the client by underpaying staff and pushing a system of begging and guilty tripping is incredibly weird.
This all signifies a pricing problem. Well I guess not one for the employers who are cheapskates raking in profits in a system where they shift attention of blame away from themselves.
Tipping is paying for the service. Having someone deliver food to your doorstep is a luxury. The restaurant needs to be paid for the food, the service needs to be paid for facilitating the delivery, and the driver should be paid for the service.
Why not actually price it into the cost of the food. Like any delivery x distance will cost x amount. Like actually charge what they want instead of this arbitrary guessing game.
Like you know… Like how online orders will provide the shipping cost to the consumer and then not expect tips, since the shipping cost is already accounted.
Charge what they want…
Because the restaurant isn’t doing the delivery.
Now, I agree, if you’re talking a restaurant doing delivery themselves, yes, bake it into the price of the food… Except then you’re dealing with competition from other restaurants. If Pizza Hut is $4 more a pie because they pay their drivers more, what happens when Papa John’s under cuts them?
In the case of Door Dash, you’re dealing with three entities all trying to make money, the restaurant, the Door Dash service, and the contractors they have driving.
That is the business justification for it. I’m saying set the price themselves and if it’s door dash than actually set a high enough fixed price as opposed a system worse than ticket master where it’s a guess game of begging and charity.
You try to make it out to be so complex but really is as simple as an online company not being the one to do the delivery but providing different delivery options from various different companies that have set a clear and upfront cost to deliver the package.
Instead of a weird paying the cost of the product and being charged cost of shipping but then that actually not being enough, since delivery companies can be bothered and having to start tipping hoping x delivery company eventually delivers it since they don’t know how to set prices themselves.
Door Dash doesn’t set the menu prices, the restaurants do. Door Dash sets the delivery fees and then leaves the tipping of drivers to the consumers.
If Door Dash set the delivery fee at $10 with no tip, and Grub Hub sets the delivery fee at $5 with tip to be decided by the consumer, nobody would use Door Dash.
Seems like a company that shouldn’t exist if they can’t stay in business by actually charging what is necessary to remain solvent because customers will be scared off as you claim.
Seems more an excuse for door dash to justify why they don’t set a proper delivery fee to lure customers and underpay drivers and just sit back and have the blame game being played between customers and workers.
It would be nice if you could put the tip you PLAN to pay, but without a certain rating afterward it doesn’t get paid. Sadly that would likely get abused by customers too. I would rather give them a better cash tip than a (ahem) documented one…
Uber Eats lets customers change the tip retroactively. As a driver this is riskier because people bait drivers with a big tip and then go in and remove it entirely after the fact for no reason.
The other issue is that most people don’t know what they’re eating when they give a rating. My 1 star reviews are from customers who’s food was done incorrectly by the restaurant or who gave such shit directions for delivery that it was impossible (had one apartment customer who wanted me to enter the secure building to leave it at their door but didn’t give access instructions, respond to my texts, or answer any of my calls… and they decided I deserved 1 star for that).
I’d like something that gives both customers and drivers more confidence. Like a proper wage from DoorDash that’s baked into the cost of service (maybe from those exorbitant fees they charge?). Just cut the tip all together and pay drivers appropriately and stop hiding behind the independent contractor shit as an excuse for exploiting people.
So pretty much the same as if you do tip.
I hate Doorsdash so fucking much but I’m pretty sure I’m addicted to it. It’s one of those terrible destructive relationships and I find myself screaming at the app every time I use it. I recently discovered a neat trick though, where if I order from the website then the app won’t spam me with the double-dash popup but I’ll still get my delivery statuses.
As someone who doesn’t use it* I’m curious, why is it so addicting?
*My wife used it once when we were out of state for a wedding but only because I was stuck inside due to illness.
It’s a time saver for sure. My husband and I use it a lot though over the past 2 months we’ve made conscious efforts to cook at home more for both money saving (it’s fucking expensive) and to reduce our calorie intake.
That being said, it’s really nice to just press a quick button, and then start sweeping, doing laundry, vacuuming, taking out the trash, etc, and then food just shows up that can now be conveniently cleaned up quickly as well.
Cooking yourself not only takes away time from the other chores kicking them to getting done later, but also now adds chores as well with the dishes.
I reason that something has to give between work, fitness, chores, schooling, sleep, and downtime. So far it’s been my sleep, but I don’t feel guilty using food delivery services to get some gaming/social time back in as well.
Thanks, that does make sense. I just finished raking leaves, walked 2 miles today for fitness, cooked dinner, and cleaned up. And there’s still more to do…
If it wasn’t for the tip I would honestly do it too. But I hate tipping non-wait staff so I’ll go pick a pizza up just to avoid it.
Learn to cook. This is why everyone became broke and fat. It is scary how fast you lose money this way. A single meal for one person can be the same as a family of four food budget for a week and the food you get is loaded with salt and calories.
My rule for eating out is simple: it has to be food I can’t resonably make at home. I love Indian food but it wouldn’t be realistic for me to start cooking it.
I know how to cook, but sometimes I don’t want to cook. I don’t see why this is such a hard concept to grasp, and I don’t know why everyone is so hostile towards people who choose to spend their money on this
Because it is hard to feel bad about someone complaining about a luxury that caters to human laziness being slightly more expensive. There is about a billion people on earth who don’t have enough to eat or don’t have access to a good diet and you people are whining about spending 41 dollar laziness premium vs a 38 dollars laziness premium.
Try using a bicycle, maybe you will lose some weight.
People are “whining” about an out of control tipping culture. Doesn’t matter if you like the service or not, tips are fucking ridiculous right now.
Just stop tipping in that case?
I know how to cook, but only in a commercial kitchen and only when I’m making 150+ servings of something.
Which stage of enshittification is this?
Cutting edge
Lol
Just another reason to avoid Door Dash: Best to get off your ass and get food. Better yet: Cook your own food!
You’d be amazed with the number of millennials who need someone to get food for them. One of my friends from high school is a neckbeard who doesn’t work and his parents literally bring all his food into his apartment and he’s rude about it because they interrupt him playing video games.
I am a millennial lol. Not that I don’t use delivery, but going to get food and cooking my own is pretty routine.
I know people of all ages who can’t cook.
Exactly. It’s crazy how quickly this type of services get the “can’t live without it” status. One day people are cooking their own food, calling taxis and walking around and next they will starve to death if someone can’t bring them their BigMac and can’t get anywhere without Uber or electric scooter.
my friends cannot fathom the fact i walk everywhere in my college
im like come walk with me “but its so far” its a 15 minute walk you probably need it.
It’s just frustrating because almost all the restaurants that used to have their own delivery drivers now just do Uber or Door Dash
Nothing wrong with scooters (shout out to [email protected]), but bikes are better IMO. I agree with the rest of your sentiment though.
