• WatTyler
    120•2 years ago

    Reflecting on my first year running solely Linux (as opposed to dual-booting), I think that this culture comes from the fact that, on Linux, problems can more often than not be solved. If not solved, then at least understood. When you want to change something on Windows, or something breaks, you have far less room to maneuver.

    When I was a Windows user, I’d barely ever submitted a bug report for anything, in spite of being very tech-literate. It felt hopeless, as my entire experience with the OS was that if a fix would come, it’d have to be done by someone else.

    Linux treating its users like adults, produces users who are more confident and more willing to contribute.

    • @[email protected]English
      4•1 year ago

      I found bugs in Windows server products all the time, and there was no way of reporting them. If you opened a ticket (by paying, of course), they would never admit it was a bug. Half the time I got the impression I was the only person in the world that every encountered said issue, and that what I was doing was complete edge-case. Which was bullshit, I would investigate and find dozens of references (which never got resolved) because it was pretty much the only way to use X product feature.

      Microsoft QA and support is utter trash. You can get better support in Linux on damn near anything by some rando on IRC or the specific product forum, or, gods forbid, Reddit. There is an almost 100% chance you can fix anything on Linux if you look hard enough, even if you have to go dig through the code. Nothing like that happens in the Windows ecosystem.

      • @[email protected]
        1•1 year ago

        Also, the types of information you find are very different. On windows, you’ll find various forum posts about your problem, and some proposed solutions. Usually, nobody seems to know exactly what’s causing the problem, and that’s why the solutions are a bit random. Same goes for iOS related problems too.

        On Linux, you might not need forum posts, because sometimes the error messages tells you what’s wrong and how to fix it. If that’s not the case, you’ll find posts about your problem, and usually there’s someone who explains what’s broken and what are the commands to fix it.

        There’s none of that guesswork about trying 7 unrelated things to see if any of them magically solve your problem. It’s straight to the point. Your problem is caused by that setting over there, and here’s how to change it.

    • Fedora
      2•2 years ago

      Is it even possible to report bugs to Microsoft without paid support? I always come across that Windows community forum where every solution to a problem is to update drivers, run sfc /scannow, etc. I doubt anybody on that forum can relay problems to Microsoft staff.

      • icedterminalEnglish
        6•2 years ago

        The Feedback Hub was introduced to fix this gap in user reports for Windows. Microsoft does actively monitor this. They respond when necessary, merge topics, deny or approve bugs/suggestions, etc. For their software, such as Terminal or VS Code, you can use GitHub issues.

        Keep in mind, like most companies, Microsoft has guidelines on what employees can say when responding to any user feedback. This is why we typically see a lot of copy and paste. When it is more than that, wording is selective and you may not get more than one or two responses in total.

        I know of at least one employee on Reddit who participates every so often. https://www.reddit.com/user/jenmsft/

    • @[email protected]
      10•2 years ago

      You can do the exact same thing in Windows, just think of the SysInternals Suite and its power. It’s just that people on Linux expect problems, while the overwhelming majority of people on Windows/MacOS is using their device expecting it to work and if it doesn’t they go do something else or buy another device.

      Also this completely untrue notion that you cannot fix Windows or play around with its internals is very prevalent, to the point that it’s a meme, so people don’t even try.

      • @[email protected]
        11•2 years ago

        But I have to fight the stupid OS to give me useful information. I have to install 3^(rd) party stuff. By default you only get this useless error reporting tool. Even if you report an error your likely to never hear from anyone and the chance of the error being fixed is virtually nonexistent.

        On Linux the necessary information is usually readily available. The worst offender in my experience is Steam itself. You can get logs from games fairy easily. But if Steam misbehaves things can get more complicated.

    • @[email protected]
      26•2 years ago

      This is true. I also dont even know how to report actual Android bugs. On Windows its true, its simply a big “f you”

      • deweydecibelEnglish
        11•2 years ago

        Android bugs go to the maintainers of that specific device or of the custom ROM installed on it.

        Using the unaltered version that was installed on the device when you bought it? Reports go to the manufacturer usually.

        Unless it’s a carrier branded version, like a Verizon or Tracfone provided phone, in which case bug reports go to them. But frankly, don’t bother, and for the love of all things holy spend a little more money and stop buying carrier branded phones.

        For custom ROMs, bug reports go to wherever the maintainers of that ROM ask bug reports be submitted. Usually Git, XDA forums, their website, or their Discord/Telegram channel. And fuck that last one, because hiding bug reports and other information in non-indexed places like Discord is making this more difficult for everyone.

        • @[email protected]
          4•2 years ago

          GrapheneOS, basically AOSP for the bugs of concern. So no, the reports would go upstream to Google I guess.

          Btw not everyone lives in the US ;D

    • @[email protected]English
      3•1 year ago

      When it comes to closed-source software developed opaquely by for-profit corporations, particularly the huge, monolithic ones like Microsoft, I generally have the attitude that, if I do discover a problem:

      1. They won’t take my detailed report
      2. If they do take my report, it goes straight into a shredder bin (or a massive queue where low priority problems go to die, which may as well be the same thing)
      3. If they do read my report, then it’s likely something they already are aware of
      4. If they don’t know about it somehow, the issue is probably so low-priority and niche that it wouldn’t escape the backlog anyway

      Probably not nearly as bleak as I make it out. But when you can’t see the process, how can you tell?

      With open source projects, these things can all still happen, but at least the process is more transparent. You can see exactly where your issue is, and what’s been done to it so far, if anything. Other users can discover and vouch for your problem. And if the dev team takes pull requests, and you are willing, able, and permitted to contribute, you can make the fix yourself.

    • @[email protected]
      5•1 year ago

      I am guessing all of them is it was game running through proton

      Edit : the game seems to have a linux native version

  • @[email protected]
    33•1 year ago

    A. If you haven’t played ΔV, do it. One of the most amazing games out there imho. So good in fact that I just went to find a Δ on the internet so I could use it and not disrespect the dev and the game. B. He is such an amazing dude. I don’t know him personally, but I do know that when Ukraine was invaded he made the game free for months on Steam so people in Ukraine could get it and have something too distract themselves from the conflict. A+ move in my book right there. I had already bought the game at that point, but I wish I could buy it again just to support him further. C. Reading this almost makes me think it would be a good tactical move to offer early access games at a steep discount on Linux if it has this great of an effect. Pay back the “free” QA kindness of the community.

  • @[email protected]
    5•1 year ago

    Great to see this perspective from a developer and it totally makes sense. I think the Firefox browser has encountered essentially the exact same thing. Linux support may be a strategic advantage for devs that embrace it.

    That does not mean that every developer will find the same thing though. Proton and Unity have many, many Linux specific ( or at least non-Windows ) bugs I am sure. It would be easy to bemoan these. It takes a different kind of mind-set to see working around these kinds of issues as valuable. Even rarer are devs that take the opportunity to address bugs in the underlying tech ( outside the game - eg. in Proton ).

    I suspect though that many non-Windows bugs are actually due to defects in the game. They are just not manifesting yet or in the same way. The fact that Linux exposes these is again an opportunity in the way the author of this post points out.

    In other words, cross-platform deployment is an opportunity for a stronger product. Access to an engaged community with strong communication skills and technical chops is a bonus.

    Hopefully more devs start to see the world this way. Great article.

  • WuTang English
    2•2 years ago

    That’s true. But I won’t hold my breath as the bar getting low to get a better&better out-of-the-box experience on linux (and it’s good), it will bring its lot of smelly gamer on their racing chair which don’t care usually, they don’t mind to exec this fishy binary to get 5fps. They will come by simple fact that MS, eventually, would have been too far in BS in their Ai-Ads-OS.

    Just check this community on YouTube, Twitch and forums. Shitting on AAA title which are a monstrosity of complexity but because it fails sometimes, those smelly, pretentious douche can get quite incendiary quickly.

    That’s why I wish that those tiktok games (apex, fortnite,) never ends on linux.

  • BarrierWithAshes
    146•2 years ago

    I remember a gamedev complaining about this on Twitter but the outcome he came to was that he hated that Linux users submitted bug reports, stating the OS itself was broken and he refused to help any of them.

    • @[email protected]
      36•2 years ago

      Good devs are good regardless of context, they may have their personal preferences but in the end welcome bug reports and feature requests, especially the helpful ones because it helps the project. Bad devs are dicks regardless of context as well, all they care about is review rate and other numbers appear in the scoreboard

    • @[email protected]
      2•1 year ago

      I’ve seen that several times. I expected that’s where this post was going, nice to see that was wrong.

    • @[email protected]
      9•2 years ago

      Yeah this article is a nice juxtaposition to that deranged rant. Hopefully if more game devs see it they’ll appreciate the Linux gaming community a bit more.

    • 0x0
      73•2 years ago

      I remember threads like this from back when Valve was pushing Steam Machines. Won’t name names, but there were very successful developers throwing tantrums once the bug reports started to flood in. Many weren’t prepared to actually provide support and spent years regretting it (according to postmortems.) I managed to get a refund on one game after the developer’s Twitter rant went completely off the rails re: Linux being unfit for desktop. Weird that they were 100% fine with Linux when it meant getting my $15, $20, or $30. Makes you think!

  • @[email protected]English
    34•2 years ago

    remember the other several occasions where developers hated actually getting feedback from these linux users cause they actually would have to fix their shit? but not many actually did

    cause i remember, they only care as far as money goes

    • Fedora
      3•2 years ago

      Nowadays, they close these bug reports as wontfix with the reason that Linux is only unofficially supported through Steam Proton.