If you, like me, live in the EU, Facebook is now entirely clamping down and forcing free users to make their personal data available for monetization.
Attempting to access any Facebook domain and perhaps also other meta products will redirect you to the following prompt with a choice between either accepting the monetization of your user data, or coughing up a region-dependent monthly subscription fee: base (for me ~10€) + an additional fee (~7€) for each additional facebook or instagram account you have.
Now, the hidden third option. At an initial glance, it seems like there is no other option but to click one of the buttons - however, certain links still work, and grant access to important pieces of functionality through your web browser.
If anyone has information to add regarding Facebook or Instagram, please do share it. I’ve only (begrudgingly) used the former up until now, but I know many others use Instagram and don’t feel like giving a single cent (nor their personal info) to Meta.
-
https://www.facebook.com/dyi - perhaps most important of all, now is a good time to make a request to download your Facebook data. Don’t forget to switch to data for “all time” and “high quality” if you intend to permanently delete your account.
-
https://www.facebook.com/your_information - here you can find and manage your information, but crucially also access Facebook messenger.
-
The messenger app: Still hasn’t prompted me with anything, though I expect that will change in the not too far future.
Currently my plan is to use messenger to inform any important friends that I intend to leave FB, and where they’ll be able to reach me in the future.
Oh no! Anyway…
I welcome this change. It makes it clear to the user in realistic terms how they want to engage with the site.
- Pay up with your money
- Pay up with your data
- Don’t use Facebook
I despise Meta and all their products but they are entitled to charge people for them. Shit ain’t free to run, you know.
I’d much sooner they showed this banner and force people to make a decision than what they’ve been doing up until now, which is to “assume” everyone’s fine with their personal data being harvested and exploited without their knowledge or consent.
deleted
Did you omit option 3 for brevity, or because you think it’s not a valid option?
deleted
Offline activity stays offline if it never goes online. If you don’t have a facebook account, then your probably have thousands of facebook accounts. It will generate an identity for each unique advertising ID you use, and you can always generate new ones in most devices.
Those accounts get combined through fingerprinting and other dark systems.
That assumes that because they’re paying they aren’t also tracking. They might not use it for ads directly but they’ll still sell it to others that will show you ads off Facebook.
Facebook’s data is way more valuable to Facebook; it doesn’t sell data to third parties. If you think they’re going to sell the non-monetisable data to third parties, you have to believe they’re willing to introduce this (which is likely to be unpopular) in apparent compliance with data protection laws, while still flagrantly violating them in secret, without any of their many employees nor any of their partners’ employees blowing the whistle (and Meta as a company leaks all the time). If they were doing that, why would they bother setting up the fake “pay to not be tracked” flow, when they could pretend to honour people’s free requests not to be tracked?
deleted by creator
That information is not Personally Identifiable Information and so it’s out of scope of privacy protecting law like the GDPR and is probably not what anyone should be worrying about when it comes to data companies.
For those not familiar with the terminology, this means that an advertiser may receive information like, “there exists a person who is 25-30 years old, likes animals, is politically left wing, lives in Michigan” etc - they don’t get that person’s name or other details that allows the advertiser to go away and advertise to you separately. Nor does it allow the government to find out that you like animals by grabbing the traffic.
deleted by creator
Thanks for this detail - I didn’t know it included IP address and accurate Lat/Long (though I guess only if you enable location services)
I agree that that would be very de-anonymisable and probably does fall under the remit of GDPR etc.
In the present context, I think whether or not Meta is using such granular data for real time bidding currently, they’d be arguing that all the RTB data is sufficiently covered by their privacy policy. But this new dialog says “your data won’t be used for ads” which categorically rules out this possibility. I don’t doubt that Meta could be breaking the law where they have a legal argument they can use to claim they aren’t - what I do doubt is that they are breaking the law when all it would take is a single leak to demonstrate that they are lying in their privacy policy. 4% of global revenue is not to be trifled with!
why would they bother setting up the fake “pay to not be tracked” flow
They didn’t. That was not an option.
Yeah, even getting them to display this banner is a victory in itself.
Don’t use Facebook is the best answer but if you must then the next best option is:
- Choose a better Adblock
You don’t owe your enemy anything. Stop using spyware as a business model.
LOL why are people using Facebook?
Because my friends and family, unfortunately use Facebook. Moreso IG these days actually. And if I’m not on there I get left out of fun activities.
deleted by creator
There aren’t if they don’t use those other ways. Shocking, I know.
To communicate with people, to follow various pages and groups that notify me of the current events regarding the topics that interest me, to buy and sell stuff in some groups, etc. At least in my case.
Same on IG
Lol the wording and design of it all. Subscribe to use without ads, picture of a credit card. Versus Use for free with ads, picture of a shooting star:
Discover products and brands through personalized ads, while using your Facebook account for free.
Plus the little “your current experience” highlighted in green. And finally “use for free” highlighted in blue.
They really want you to go with the second option so they can try to prove to the court that people want free stuff. When most of them were likely unconsciously coerced into it.
The big mean regulator is trying to make us charge you money. Click here to pay up or click here to stay free.
Isn’t this just an additional paid option and the ad option is what everyone already had and everyone outside the EU still has?
No. Where I live it has previously been possible to opt-out of personalized advertisements in favor of generic ones. That has now been removed.
That option is still there for me (in addition to the new option to pay) in the Instagram app, in the settings there is an ad settings option which sends you to the website where you can configure that.
Yup. Basically, you need to enable ads to use the free, ad supported platform.
My relatives are using FB as crazy. Like too much. I was telling them how Facebook is tracking and selling users data, thats why i dont use FB and all i have seen in their eyes was wanting me to shut the f*ck up
I took a five year break for this reason. As I embraced being an artist it seemed the only way to know what is going on locally in my stupid medium-sized Texas town is Facebook. Even local government news was only on Facebook. So if I wanted to find calls for art locally to submit for galleries then I had to join. Luckily with two fences and uBlock Origin the only information they get is by logging any text I put in. It’s a lot of work to try to maintain my privacy though and no official app ever. I use a couple container apps from F-Droid, but they barely work most of the time so it mostly has to be on Desktop. I’ve tried to get a few friends to switch to federated apps and they look at me the same way. Even my partner’s casino job requires a Facebook account because if you want someone to take a shift for you it’s the only way. Also any company news. It should be regulated as a utility.
Exactly. I was looking for renting an appartment. I was looking on specific real estate websites how it should be but my girlfriend found the best one to rent on Facebook. Shouldn’t be like that
The real dark, unexplainable and one of the most complex software after Google services is Facebook.apk. No baseless privacy claim that Google promises is valid if one installs and runs Facebook as it isn’t in its nature. Anyone, organisation pushes or even requires an application in today’s age is spyware. The Guardian even says “less ads” and they are supposed to be a bit better guys. How does it show less ads? Because it accesses these https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=com.guardian It isn’t just an Android thing, Apple tried their best to stop Facebook from leeching but there isn’t anything to do when you “check in” at home.
It’s actually much much worse to use the preload version that came with your phone versus the Play store version. The play store has many rules they force devs to comply with that aren’t true for preloads.
Same. That look that says:"I don’t care, I dont want to know, I just want to use (insert any social media). They have no idea what’s collected and used without their knowledge.
Same for TikTok. I tried to warn them about the Chinese government watching with TikTok over their preferences and I still get that same “I don’t care” look. But then they receive a promotional mail and complain they get spammed.
They figure looking at funny cat videos is worth the spam. Of course, I like the idea of paying users for their data. If data is the new oil, and we are the oil wells, it’s time they paid for it.
They say “I have nothing to hide” but talks sh*t about China and comunism 😁
Laws are changing in your region, so we’re introducinga new choice about how we use your info for ads.
Which law?
None. The statement is false. The law didn’t change. What did change was the enforcement thereof.
No law changed, they simply are now obligated to respect the GDPR (at least formally).
The text is also incredible misleading. The data will still be harvested and monetized, just not for ads.
this has to be illegal.
like, no, seriously. i’m not a lawyer but i was working on a (since failed) startup in 2018 and distinctly remember how much headache the gdpr caused. literally one of the main things was that you cannot coerce users into consenting to data processing, or make features conditional to them. the gdpr makes a distinction between processing you do to perform a contract (that’s why no one asks for your consent for processing your email address to log you in, that’s implied) and processing you do for other reasons, which require user consent (that’s why everyone asks if they can spam you on the same email – it doesn’t matter that your email address is already on their server, processing it for marketing reasons requires consent of the data subject). opting into these kinds of processing needs to be granular, if it’s not they lose the validity of your consent.
i seriously hope facebook gets slapped so hard over this that no one ever thinks about doing this again. “paying with your data” should never be a thing in any society that calls itself civilized.
Yeah I really hope the EU smack’em down. Asking users to pay a fee only because their countries law limit an illegal practice is astonishing
like, no, seriously.
What does “like” mean here? What’s it for?
Assuming you’re not a native English speaker. It’s a filler word. It doesn’t really mean anything, it’s used more to communicate tone.
Being native doesn’t make one being able to speak properly.
flair, mostly. lol
It’s how people have been talking for, like, 20 years now at least
Rather, fucked american english. Like, fucked american english. Like, fucked. Like, like! Like!
I don’t think you understand how this works. I’m not the biggest fan of Facebook but even I know they’re not a charity they’re not a governmental entity. They’re out there to make a profit and if they can’t make a profit on their ad revenue then they have to make a profit in another way via a subscription service. So they’re literally giving you the option to either continue using them with ads or continue using them as a subscription service. Your other option is to completely delete your Facebook. I don’t see the problem here. You aren’t entitled to a Facebook page, no matter how useful it is to your personal life.
Edit: a word
And I don’t think you understand the problem. Nothing is preventing Facebook from displaying ads. Facebook’s issue is collecting user data and using it to directly target ads. They can make it so that a user can opt out of personalized ads and still show ads to that person. Companies would still pay to display their ads, perhaps not at the same rate but that doesn’t mean Facebook would be losing money by serving those users.
Let’s not act like Facebook is going to go bankrupt if some of their users opt out of data collection and targeted ads.
Facebook’s issue is collecting user data and using it to directly target ads.
Literally nearly every website on the internet does this. Even the ones you pay a fee to subscribe to.
You have the choice to close your account with Facebook if you don’t like their policy. Again, this is a completely for profit company, they have no obligation to host you on their site.
Literally nearly every website on the internet does this. Even the ones you pay a fee to subscribe to.
Are you even a little familiar with GDPR?
Nobody is acting like they have a right to Facebook in this thread. Likewise, nobody is saying that Facebook shouldn’t be trying to make money. The issue at hand isn’t the choice between a fee and ads. The issue is that you have to pay to opt out of targeted advertising and that they’re using dark patterns to encourage people to consent to targeted advertising.
So the suggestion above that this may be illegal is accurate. You’re so focused on a person’s ability to not do business that you’re ignoring that there are laws regulating this type of behavior.
then offer the subscription service as the only option. if they want to do that, it’s on them. but you can tell by the dark pattern on this ui element that that’s not their main goal, they just want to use the threat of having to pay to coerce people into consenting to data processing.
it’s not about entitlement, it’s about playing fair. removing the option to “pay with your data”, and leaving only the subscription or cancellation as options would be fair play. it would also destroy facebook but that’s on them, it’s their decision to make. but if they decide to provide a free service of any kind, they cannot discriminate against those who wish to choose privacy.
and if we’re being realistic, they’re not expecting even 1% of their user base to pay. they are, however, expecting to keep nearly 100% of their user base. that’s what makes this about coercion – if they didn’t have the option to coerce people (and i’m fairly sure they don’t have it legally, but again, i am not a lawyer) the options presented would be very different, because facebook itself wouldn’t be able to afford to only give its service to paid users. you’d probably have a free tier with optional privacy included, which is missing some features, or a paid tier with extra features and privacy included (hopefully non-optionally, but it’s facebook so they’d probably still try to track you).
Every argument you make here is completely silly.
This is a for-profit company and it has always been a for-profit company. They have no obligation to host you on their site and they can stipulate any conditions they like. If they want to make it a choice between paying a subscription fee or you consciously acquiescing to their collecting your data and advertising to you using that data, then that is 100% their right. Equally you have the right to opt out by closing your Facebook page and deleting all of your data on their site. I will reiterate, you are not entitled to a Facebook page!! This is not right, it’s a privilege granted to you by this greedy-ass corporation in exchange for monetary compensation, either through targeted ad revenue or a subscription fee. Deal with it.
Your thinking is so pinned-down by business-centric presumptions it’s ridiculous.
The Law doesn’t give a shit about any one company’s chosen business model, otherwise Murder would be legal as long as it was done by employees of an incorporated “Murdering Services” company.
Further, Facebook is an American company which avoids tax like crazy, so in Europe even politicians don’t give a shit about their business model, which means these Laws were not even adjusted to account for Facebook’s business model when they were created.
Facebook’s business model and even survival as a company are wholly irrelevant: the Law is the Law, and Facebook either obbey it or they stop operating in the Jurisdictions whose laws they don’t want to obbey - ultimatelly, all legal recourses exhausted, “comply” or “leave” are their only two options.
then don’t host the site if they don’t want to. or charge people for shit if they want to. i’m not asking for them to not do that, i’m asking for one thing and one thing only: don’t make service, free or not, conditional to consenting for data processing not related to providing that service. that shit, to my best knowledge, is illegal in the eu, and it’s for a damn good reason.
facebook is not entitled to a profit either just because they’re for-profit. they need to earn it. and no, they don’t have a right to take a “whatever means necessary” approach on it – just like a company cannot legally rob people, or cannot legally entice minors into gambling addictions to make that money, in the eu it also cannot coerce people into giving up their personal data just so it can then profit off of that either. consent for that needs to be given willingly, without pressure, and without deception. why is this principle so hard to understand?
you paint some ridiculous strawman arguments here in your efforts to lick the zuck’s boots, but i never once asked for facebook to continue giving their service for free if they don’t want to. the only thing i said is “paying with your data” is not a valid idea under the gdpr (and honestly, it shouldn’t be a thing in any civilized country.) if facebook relies on it, tough shit, their options are to figure out an alternate revenue stream or go out of business. that’s how it works for every other business as well.
Where exactly is the coercion here? The choices in order to maintain a Facebook account you either pay a fee or let them use your data to advertise to you. The other option is to completely close your Facebook account and delete all of your data on their servers. An argument can be made that they should make it easier to remove all of your data and several people that I know have made that argument. But other than that I don’t see anything they are doing as being illegal, in the EU or otherwise. Sure the way they presented is a pretty scummy but what do you want? It’s Facebook and it’s run by greedy corporate dick heads. If you don’t like it delete your Facebook profile.
I also find it hilarious that you don’t think they have lawyers who specialize in European Union law that don’t know exactly what the fuck they’re doing. This is a multi-billion dollar company, they can afford the best goddamn lawyers.
Where exactly is the coercion here? The choices in order to maintain a Facebook account you either pay a fee or let them use your data to advertise to you.
right there. you’re a parody of yourself lmao.
a facebook account cannot simultaneously hold enough value that it’s worth compromising your privacy for and not hold value so that the threat of taking it away is not coercion. the enemy cannot be both strong and weak at once. the only way to resolve this dichotomy is to posit your privacy itself holds no value and is therefore a fair price to pay for something that also holds no value, but that’s just absolutely ridiculous to begin with.
you also had your answers to your questions about which part should be illegal, multiple times. to then ask the same questions again because you “don’t see it”, playing dumb like that, is just manipulative. why are you so dead set on corporate bootlicking?
Read carefully:
You 👏 do 👏 not 👏 require 👏 a 👏 Facebook 👏 page 👏 to 👏 live.
It is the very definition of superfluous luxury service. Just delete your page and be done with it.
I trust that Facebook’s lawyers are payed enough to make sure that this is technically legal. These laws always have loopholes.
It’s a reaction to Facebook methods being deemed illegal in Europe. Although this does not mean than the new model is illegal, it’s an interesting sample of Facebook not always being right even though they have good layers. Both Facebook, Google and many other big tech, operate on the edge of what is legal and often on the other side of it, because it can be profitable enough to just pay the fine if it turns out to be illegal.
This last move, I believe, is more of a statement than it is an actual change.
Oh, yea. I can believe that these lawyers checked it out and determined that it may be illegal, but more like a “pay a fine that’s the equivalent of a bubblegum wrap when scaled down to regular people money” illegal and not “shut down the company and place the CEO behind bars” illegal.
Now, if it was Xwitter, I could totally see Must ignoring all his lawyers and just YOLOing it.
i wish the eu could stop fucking around on this one. fines for gdpr violations can reach up to 20 million euros or 4% of global revenue, whichever is higher. if they actually prosecute over this, it will be far more than a slap on the wrist. (which is why everyone was so scared of the gdpr back in 2018, but apparently that didn’t really last)
I would love for FB to be smacked down hard by the EU, but isn’t this just the inclusion of a new option that didn’t exist before, I.e. the subscription? If you push the right button, isn’t that the status quo that you’ve been using all along without any other option? I don’t understand how giving more options is more coercive than before.
no, ever since 2018 when the gdpr actually went into effect, they had to allow users to opt out of data processing individually for different purposes. like, if you want to allow facebook to process your data for improving their site but not for marketing purposes, you need to be able to set that, and facebook needs to respect that. as such, you had the option to use the site without “paying for it with your data” at all.
and if that’s not a viable business model and they need to charge a subscription fee, that’s alright. there’s nothing in the gdpr that says you cannot charge for services. the problematic part here is that they do provide a free service but only if you consent to data processing. like i said, i’m not a lawyer, but i’m pretty sure that’s illegal, and it absolutely should be illegal. if they decide to provide a free tier (or a paid tier for that matter), it needs to be available even if you don’t consent for unrelated data processing. they’re not obligated to provide anything, but if they do provide something, they cannot discriminate against users who don’t want to share their data.
that’s the problematic bit here. privacy cannot be a premium feature. facebook is trying to charge for something here that should be available to all users, whether or not the underlying product is freely available or not.
Third choice: Delete your account and never look back.
You need to make a choice to continue using Facebook
This reminds me of the movie War Games, when WOPR says, “The only winning strategy is not to play.” The only correct choice to make here is to delete your Facebook account.
Indeed, I’d like to, and hopefully will be able to. Unfortunately it is basically the universal method of communication at my campus - unless you use instagram… or snapchat… :(
Hopefully it’ll be possible to get others to make the move, but I’m not really that important in social contexts, nor are most privacy-focused folks.
The evil of the lizard is too great to resist. The only way to win is to deny it battle.
How anyone still has a FB account I’ll never understand—or, I should say, anyone who doesn’t subscribe to the insane, “well I have nothing to hide!”/“anyone reading my information will be SO BOOORED LOLOLOL!” mindset and that actually gives 1/10000th of a shit about privacy.
I literally had a job that distributed our schedule via a Facebook group exclusively and required an account for requesting changes or interaction about the schedule.
You can easily counter that sentiment by asking them if they also leave their door open when they use a public toilet. Since they got “nothing to hide”.
“Anyone that wants to watch me pee is god be SOO BORRED LOLOL!”
police gets called
For me it is still holding on, barely, as a messaging app. I have a few friends and groups that just refuse to message on other things and that’s keeping me around. I’m tired of evangelizing better options.
I have friends like that. They never get a response from me.
It pops up every once in a while for things like old classmates getting together. If I weren’t on it I wouldn’t know about it.
It’s also useful for local events like neighborhood festivals that don’t get posted on any other media.
Most of my sports and social activities are organized through various Facebook groups, and I’d lead a rather boring life without it.
That’s why.
Or stop caring about data being used for ads. Most people don’t 🤷♂️
I’m surprised the EU hasn’t pounced on them for GRPR infringement, maybe there’s a loophole Meta’s exploiting. Being total assholes ain’t a crime.
I don’t know about the rest of EU, but in France for some reason it was decided that this type of choice, i.e. “pay a subscription or accept all trackers”, was in the spirit of GDPR.
I think it’s bullshit, but hey, it helped me choose whose services I will never use any more (really, most of those were already shit before they tried to pull that one, no big surprise here).
In Italy lots of online newspapers do the same: either you subscribe, or you accept the tracking
This is their reaction to new privacy laws in the EU. I’m not sure I’ll fly.
Maybe, but there are whispers that EU is not happy with this since it seems to violate the GDPR.
The button colours alone are in violation.
Delete that garbage.
I swore off all Meta products before they were called Meta. One of the better decisions I’ve ever made.
lol, saying “before they were called meta” as if that was a long time ago. That was 2 years ago.
Pepperidge farms remembers
There’s a missing third option: Don’t use it at all.
