an interactive medium offers unique avenues for storytelling not available to something more static like a film or a novel.
think things like environmental storytelling or branching narratives.
branching narratives
Lots of “plot only” games I see start to eschew even that and have tons of fake choices lmao, making it even movie-er.
Yea dude this is often such a false promise, im sure some games pull it off but often its like one choice that makes a drastic difference in outcome.many times it’s not like a nuanced calculation of the decisions you make over an entire playthrough
What games are we even talking about? Like Gone Home or something?
The perception of choice still matters. A movie can’t ask you to choose anything, not even a false choice. So if that’s important, a movie simply can’t do it.
Damn straight, beefcat
Now there’s a sentence I never thought I’d type
I like visual novels because of how I can change the story with different choices. This isn’t much gameplay but it is still interactive and a lot easier to do with a computer than with manually flipping between pages in a Choose Your Own Adventure book.
Now, kinetic novels, where you do not change anything significant in the story with your choices, those I agree with OP’s sentiment. Some people like them and that’s totally fine, but I personally don’t see the appeal. Maybe it’s getting exposure to stories from people who had an idea but not a high enough budget for a movie?
Almost everything in this world stresses me out.
I want to feel involved in something while going at my own pace. Video games give me to power to finally be in control. That’s why I like them so much. Movies force you along.
In a game, you’re the protagonist. In a movie, someone else is. Two different experiences.
Just watch the Let’s Play if you want the movie 😀
I wasn’t aware of this, what games are you referring to?
The Last of Us, The Walking Dead game and other Telltale games, Uncharted, The Witcher, God of War, and I guess it’s just a general trend I feel. A lot of games seem to focus on story-driven elements more than gameplay, with an obsession around graphics and story more than anything else (see what Mohamed Enieb says on Twitter, for example).
And I guess this is somewhat separate, but… why don’t trailers show any gameplay, just cinematic stuff? I don’t play games for the visuals or story personally, I just want good gameplay. I find it increasingly hard to find games I actually enjoy.
What happened to the likes of Ratchet & Clank, Jak series, Lost Planet, or the Halo series? Those are games with good gameplay, and I couldn’t care less about the stories (or graphics).
What are you talking about? Ratchet and Clank had as much story as God of War, they were both released for the same console, and both of them had a new game released recently. If you don’t care about story Halo and CoD are very similar, and there’s a new CoD every year, why not play that?
Plus there are plenty of games that got released recently and are focused on mechanics, have absolutely awesome gameplay and are not “story” heavy e.g. Dead Cells, Spider-Man, Stellaris, Two point hospital, Factorio, Rimworld just out of the top of my head.
I’m really trying to understand your argument, but really can’t:
-
You mention games without gameplay and list as examples games that were acclaimed by their gameplay as well as storytelling
-
You say you don’t care about graphics but list games that were at the top of the graphical capabilities of their time
-
You talk about a recent trend and provide examples from 10 or more years ago
I’m not sure you know what you like in a game, I think it’s quite possible you enjoyed those games because you were in a different mental situation when you played them, and now nothing quite stands up to them because you changed and are not able to enjoy things as much. I’m saying this because objectively The last of Us is a masterpiece in every single aspect, not only one of the best stories I’ve seen in a while, but also a lot of great innovative mechanics and a gameplay that fits just perfectly, even if you skipped every Cutscene in the game you would still be playing an absolutely awesome game, it might not be your thing because you don’t like stealth, or scare easily, but to claim it’s a game without anything but story is more proof that you either haven’t played it or are trolling.
-
Have you even played TLOU? And the Witcher? Really? It’s pretty much ALL gameplay!
I honestly don’t think you’ve ever played any of these games beyond the opening scenes.
Meh, too much story for me. I know there’s some gameplay, but it’s a lot of walking around while just observing stuff happening, too much for my liking.
Ok but a branching story is far from the same as a tv show
If you prefer point-and-click shooters or FIFA or whatever that’s fine, but it’s not like good RPGs are any closer to cinematic games/walking simulators than them - RPGs & walking simulators share a story, whereas point-and-click shooters & walking simulators share repetitiveness and little to no replay value
For the latter there is an argument that they’re more of a sport than a media form, but why not just go to the gym or join a sports team? It follows the same logic as why not watch a movie instead of playing a game with a story
ROFL… okay.
Ok so what the hell games do you like then?
You clearly have no idea what playing these games is like. You should’ve tried them before forming your opinion.
Try Celeste. There’s a great storyline but you can ignore it if you want. The gameplay speaks for itself
Ratchet & Clank and the Jak series are platformers which have fallen out of favor with most companies because they don’t sell well anymore. You could try A Hat In Time or the Mario games (or even the latest 3D Sonic game, for that matter) if that’s what you are looking for. As far as Lost Planet and the Halo series, I wouldn’t exactly call them sparkling examples of gameplay. Lost Planet was a pretty OK third person shooter, which you can still find a fair amount of out there (see: Ghost Recon, et al.), and Halo has Halo Infinite, the MCC, or you can go the route of Call of Duty, DOOM, Dying Light, or one of the many arena shooters that have come out in recent times, just search for “Boomer Shooters.”
As far as your commentary on trailers, it’s often because visuals sell, and being able to script a cinematic to hit on every dopamine receptor is something that advertisers have been perfecting for generations. They don’t show gameplay because most of the time the gameplay is the same gameplay that you’ve seen before. If you want innovation, you have to go indie for the most part, and they don’t have trailers that often.
Most of those games still have actual gameplay mechanics, unlike, say, Detroit Become Human which is a better fit for this category.
Or all those walking sims that were all the rage a couple of years back.
FF7 remake def feels like this to me. Short play, huge cut scene. Repeat.
I wanted something retro cyberpunk RPG recently and installed VA-11 Hall-A: Cyberpunk Bartender Action, only to discover that there is no action and barely no game. It’s just endless nexting through a narrative that smells of teenage bedsheets.
Apparently it’s massively popular.
I don’t get it at all. For me it’s like reading wet fanfic while double tapping the space bar and perform the most tedious implementation of what can barely be considered a puzzle or memory game.
Edit: don’t get me wrong. I enjoy slow narrative driven indie games with barely any interactive parts, as long the narrative is interesting and the interaction is still barely as opposed to virtually none.
>buys a Visual novel
>gets a book with moving images
>:(I get your point, but some people do really just want to relax with a choose your own adventure book with some cool art and catchy music, no need to act surprised when people have different tastes than yours!
Yep, it’s my mistake. I assumed it would have some gameplay elements as suggested by the “action” in the title, or control of the direction of narrative, something along what interactive stories used to be in my mind.
As I said, I personally don’t understand the appeal of it. I’d rather read the story as a book or even a graphic novel because for me tapping the spacebar and dragging icons does not add anything. It’s plain annoying both as game and distracting as a reading experience.
Oh, and obviously I didn’t expect it to be about horny tech furries. It was simply not for me.
Was there a trailer?
The action is the drink mixing minigame.
And what wild action it is.
Oh, and obviously I didn’t expect it to be about horny tech furries. It was simply not for me.
😂😂😂 Sorry, that just made me laugh.
“I fully respect the horny, furry fandom. It’s just not for me”. So polite hahaha
deleted by creator
That’s why niche titles like Elden Ring or Baldurs Gates 3 totally flopped. Ah, wait…
deleted by creator
Seems times have changed indeed, seeing an elitist gamer like this would be unheard of a few decades ago.
deleted by creator
git: 'gud' is not a git command. See 'git --help'deleted by creator
You are not funny, just toxic.
deleted by creator
Buddy, you are still toxic. “Bunch of people triggered”? “How can git gud be perceived as toxic”? You are so far up the elitist gamer mindset you don’t even realize it.
deleted by creator
“git gud” implies “you are bad and need to do better”. Even in a “joking” matter, it makes you look like a dick. It is obvious to anyone who isn’t toxic or elitist. Just because you are surrounded by toxic people all the time, telling you “git gud” “gg ez” doesn’t mean it’s not toxic.
They were so fucking elitist in the past it was hard for anyone else to enjoy themselves because they did not fit the mold of tRuE gamers.
Those ultra-casuals, consume games not because but despite being games.
lmao
Even if a game technically has great gameplay, it can start to feel pointless if the story is trash.
I can go at my own pace with a game. I pause the story and the rest of the world is still there to interact with.
The older I get the less I care about endless gameplay loops and carrot on a stick mechanics. A good story keeps me invested and caring about what happens on the screen. Games like God of War, Last of us, Witcher are gold standards when it comes to this. They are not movies on rails, they are engaging and interactive experiences like you can’t find anywhere else and for this I will always love these types of games more than any other medium.
Edit: OP literally mentioned these games as examples lower down in the thread.
I really like the characters and voice/motion acting in Baldur’s Gate 3. Magnificently rendered. Very well written. But the story is totally on rails. You can nod your head at an NPC and they will say “Anyway, let’s get on with things…” or you can tell that NPC to eat shit and die and they will say “Hey no need to be vulgar. Anyway let’s get on with things…”
There are some branches and choices in the game but overall it feels pretty prepared. I enjoy hunting for fun Astarion reactions to random things, but the game frequently offers fake choices, and the consequences of choices are usually 1. the story continues as written or 2. the story thread just ends 3. oh no combat or 4. some really weak alternative thread that you know isn’t the main one and they threw in just to pad.
Games are not superior medium for telling stories. All the good parts are the ones taken from movies, and the interactivity is still weak. When a game has GPT-level improvisation then I’ll be impressed but that will just be a sandbox anyway.
I feel like your examples aren’t quite what OP was referring to. Those games have pretty great gameplay
According to OP, those are exactly the games they referred to. Which does beg more questions
OK OP is a weirdo, my bad
i think they might mean more something along the lines of telltale games. and there’s definitely been more than one mediocre story driven adventure with bad gameplay, we just don’t remember them as easily. also, a lot of people really don’t get the appeal of role playing. so games like baldur’s gate might come off as “old ass gameplay on top of a long winded boring story” to the someone who also doesn’t like of turn based combat. I could even see a somewhat valid complaint if they were mad about QuickTime events seeming to be more common than ever. I thought those would be a relic of the past 10 years ago… looking at you spider man! every super hero game really. why are these still a thing? who likes them?
No OP literally replied lower down in the thread using those examples
damn yeah that’s a pretty lame take.
I think Telltale and those like it would be even worse examples than God Of War and etcetera. These games add a new dimension to the experience by providing ways for the viewer/player to influence the story. The only thing I could conflate it with would be CYOA books, which obviously are a conpletely different medium.
Those games have pretty great gameplay
God of War is basically a button masher. I remember liking The Last of Us, but it was new when I played it, so I don’t remember much of the gameplay. Can’t speak to the Witcher
deleted by creator
Pretty much all Ren’Py VNs fall into this category.
In reading this thread, I get the sense that some people don’t (or can’t) separate gameplay and story. Saying, “this is a great game” to me has nothing to do with the story; the way a game plays can exist entirely outside a story. The two can work together well and create a fantastic experience, but “game” seems like it ought to refer to the thing you do since, you know, you’re playing it.
My personal favorite example of this is Outer Wilds. The thing you played was a platformer puzzle game and it was executed very well. The story drove the gameplay perfectly and was a fantastic mystery you solved as you played. As an experience, it was about perfect to me; the gameplay was fun and the story made everything you did meaningful.
I loved the story of TLoU and was thrilled when HBO adapted it. Honestly, it’s hard to imagine anyone enjoying the thing TLoU had you do separately from the story it was telling. It was basically “walk here, press X” most of the time with some brief interludes of clunky shooting and quicktime events.
I get the gameplay making the story more immersive, but there’s no reason the gameplay shouldn’t be judged on its own merit separately from the story.
Basically Playstation exclusives. They are heavily marketed and hyped up, they make good stories, but there isnt any gameplay other than walking through some foliage ridden areas (foliage spam is the ‘game looks good’ tactic) and maybe the odd enemy to shoot.
I agree they would be better suited as tv shows/movies than games.
“Why do people have preferences?”
As I scroll this thread I’m really wondering how much people still read books. When people say they like story games, is that because that’s the only source of stories in their lives, and they’re saying “of course I like stories?” Do they have any great stories to compare with, from books?
The responses make a great deal more sense to me if I assume no one reads anymore. I speak as an avid reader and gamer.
I’d like to think I’m an avid reader (and gamer) as well. I view both highly and both have their strengths.
SPOILERS
Video games shine in terms of player interactivity. I genuinely felt visceral, strong emotions by simply having to press the square button 3 times in TLOU2. Bashing someone’s head in is the only way to proceed. The music gets more distorted, the screen itself becomes blurry – I felt as Ellie felt. Distraught, upset, angry, and everything else in between.
I felt the acceptance that I have been honing in my countless loops of Outer Wilds when I finally pulled the system’s “life support” out. Flying through space one last time while the music echoes this final journey really made me feel things.
I’d summarise the edge video games have as “This is what you (the player) have done. You have agency. Deal with the consequences of your own actions, or reap the benefits.”
A huge disclaimer, I know that the story is already established in the writers room. I’m not saying that games allow you to craft your own story. I’m saying that they allow you to craft your own experience.
Of course, great writers can accomplish the same. I love Atwood’s writing in particular, and she does conjure up wonderful emotions. But you always feel for someone or something. You don’t have any agency in what happens, so emotions tend to be dampened as well. That’s my personal opinion anyway, feel free to disregard it!
I think you’re totally right about placing the “reader” in a position of agency and how that gives the story greater impact.
I also think it really fences game stories in, too, because people would object to being certain kinds of characters, or making certain kinds of choices.
Either you have to give the gamer palatable choices, or they feel dissociated from their character, like “well fuck okay I’ll do it but this is clearly not what I would rather do,” and that greater impact is undermined.
Some games excel at finding the tricky balance point where you aren’t quite sure what you would do and really have to think and consider the consequences because you’re invested in both directions. But you can only cram so many such moments into a plot before it becomes obvious.
Yeap fully agreed here as well. I do think the medium itself is shackled by its own chains, but my goodness when you find a game that does it well – the feeling is astounding.
I guess it depends on the player as well. I adored how TLOU2 handled its story but most people might disagree.
Anyway, I’ve come to the realisation that I’ve mostly been reading non fiction lately! Maybe that’s why I’m so fiction starved.
If you’ve any books to recommend I’d love to hear them!
Why do people like cake, I just don’t get it. Why not just eat cookies if you want something sweet
Because all you name below are AAA games where everyone wants to flex their budget. It’s like asking “why do big budget movies focus so often on explosions and action, instead of stories? What happened to things like Shawshank Redemption?”
As soon as you step away from big AAA games that lean heavily on cinematic influence, you get much more gameplay-focused content. I could name a million of them.
But it’s a spectrum, not an on/off switch. There’s a huge array of different types of games with different combinations of action, cinematics, dialog, quick-time events, racing, flying, rhythm-matching, puzzles, and on and on and on
Tell us what you’re actually looking for and we could give suggestions :)
Don’t tell us what you don’t want. Tell us what interests you
