Just some off the top of my head: Destiny, Deep Rock Galactic, Overwatch, and most recently Baldur’s Gate.
I received BG3 as a gift. I installed and loaded up the game and the first thing I was prompted to do is to create a character. There are like 12 different classes with 14 different abilities and 10 ability classes. The game does not explain any of this. I went to watch a tutorial online to try and wrap my head around all of this. The first tutorial just assumed you knew a bunch of stuff already. The second one I found was great but it was 1.5 hours long. There is no in-game tutorial I could find.
I just get very bored very quickly of analyzing character traits and I absolutely loathe inventory management (looking at you Borderlands). Often times my inventory fills up and then I end up just selling stuff that I have no idea what it does and later realizing it’s an incredibly valuable item/resource and now I have to find more.
So my question is this: Do you guys really spend hours of your day just researching on the internet how to play these games? Or do you just jump in and wing it? Or does each game just build on top of working knowledge of previous similar games?
E: General consensus seems to be all of the above. Good to know!
Lol, some of these replies…
I think you know what it is you enjoy, so you’ve just got to remember not to fall into that trap of “well, everyone says it’s good, so I must try it”.
The great reviews come from the people who already enjoy that kind of game. Like, reviewers on a site usually favor specific genres. If something gets a good review, you’ve got to put it into the context of whether or not it’s something the reviewer usually plays.
You’re not often going to see an RPG review by someone who mostly plays platformers.
So if an RPG is good to an RPG-enjoyer reviewer, and most of the people picking it up are already RPG fans, then good reviews are always going to be biased in favor of people who enjoy that gaming experience.
My advice?
Take a look at the tags on Steam. I know they’re user-submitted and “RPG” is on like every fucking game now, but things like “turn-based”, “tactical”, “simulation”, “crafting”, and a few others I’m forgetting will most likely be the things you’ll want to avoid (maybe there will be some exceptions here and there).
Also, wait a bit. No need to play games immediately. Play some stuff you enjoy for a year and then see if you still want to play it.
As for how and why people play these games… Just preference really. It comes down to the energy and time someone’s willing to commit. Neither a good thing or bad thing. Some find that thrilling, others find it chore. Both perspectives are perfectly valid.
Sometimes, people just enjoy them as is without getting too deep and never bother with “the meta” or whatever. Usually one of two things happens here: either they really enjoy it because they don’t have people backseat gaming them and telling them how to play and they’re finding creative ways to do things, or they find it a miserable experience because it’s just not fun if they don’t like the core mechanics.
I personally don’t have the energy for “deep complex games”, despite enjoying RPGs and immersive sims. I don’t ever bother with crafting or strategy games (although I did get into Civ V for a while, which was nice).
Over the years, I’ve learned what I like, what I don’t like, and just wait things out. Game Pass and deep sales help a lot here, actually. (Also other options, but not strictly ones people necessarily approve of for various reasons.)
Yeah - I just jump in and wing it.
At the risk of inviting the internet’s wrath, when people talk about the difference between serious gamers and casuals, this is the sort of thing they’re talking about.
“Serious” gaming involves a particular set of skills and interests, such that the person is willing and able to just jump into some complicated new game and figure it out. And it’s not just that “serious” gamers can do that - the point is that they want to. They enjoy it. They enjoy being lost, then slowly putting the pieces together and figuring out how things work and getting better because they’ve figured it out. And they enjoy the details - learning which skills do what and which items do what, and how it all interrelates. All that stuff isn’t some chore to be avoided - it’s a lot of the point - a lot of the reason that they (we) play games.
You talk about your inventory filling up and then just selling everything, and I can’t even imagine doing that. To me, that’s not just obviously bad strategy, but entirely missing the point - like buying ingredients to make delicious food, then bringing them home and throwing them in the garbage.
You talk about your inventory filling up and then just selling everything
Uh, no, that’s not what I said at all.
My inventory is finite and at some point I have to choose what stays and what goes. Not only that but I have to sell enough things that I can continue picking up more items without leaving items on the ground in the middle of the map.
Then having to regularly stop and weigh the weapons in my inventory against the weapons on the ground and making choices I don’t even fully understand that come back to bite me in the ass later.
My point though is that you talk about all of that as if it’s some sort of chore.
To me, it’s a lot of the fun.
I rarely even get to the point of having to stop and weigh choices in my inventory, since every time I come across something new, I have to stop and check it out and try to figure out what it is and what it does and what sort of advantages or disadvantages it might have. I enjoy that. So all along the way, I’m figuring out what I want to or think I should keep and what I want to or think I can get rid of, and not because a finite inventory demands it, but because that’s part of the point of playing in the first place.
Broadly, you’re asking if other people actually invest the time and energy to sort out how to play complex games. I’m saying that we not only can and do, but that that’s a lot of the point. That whole process of sorting things out is a lot of the reason that we play in the first place.
My point though is that you talk about all of that as if it’s some sort of chore.
Repetitive gameplay is not fun for me, personally but more power to you. I’m just trying to figure out what exactly I’m missing before I invest time into this game.
I rarely even get to the point of having to stop and weigh choices in my inventory
Those are not the types of games I’m talking about. Borderlands is the worst example I can think of where you have to stop every 3 minutes because the ground is constantly just littered with weapons, each with a dozen traits that is, at no time, explained to you while playing the game.
Horizon Zero Dawn is another one.
Now obviously those games are very popular, which is precisely what I’m trying to understand.
Broadly, you’re asking if other people actually invest the time and energy to sort out how to play complex games.
No it’s not. Obviously you do, or you wouldn’t play them. What I’m asking is how you sort it out.
Perhaps this conversation would be more constructive if you told us some of the games you do like, instead of the ones you don’t.
Because I’ll tell you right now, unless you prefer interactive novels which are only arguably games, every game is based on repetitive gameplay.
Specifically, building repetitive gameplay on top of repetitive gameplay is what makes games, games.
Like with chess. You have a repetitive “chess game” loop which has many “your turn” loops inside.
What I’m asking is how you sort it out
To address this specifically, this is what the community of the game is about. It’s why wikis are created and maintained. And so the answer would change based on which game you’re talking about and your goals in that game
For borderlands specifically, a few quick heuristics you can use is to ignore all weapons of not legendary color while in lower level areas, or to stop picking up lower tier items when you don’t need the cash, or to skip everything that isn’t a shotgun because that’s the only piece you need to update
every game is based on repetitive gameplay.
I was speaking broadly but “repetitive” isn’t a binary quality, there is a spectrum.
this conversation would be more constructive if you told us some of the games you do like
Well, that would be a long list but my absolute favorite games are of a very specific nature. I don’t know if there’s a name for them. All the Devil May Crys (but especially DMC), God of War, Control, Jed: Fallen Order, etc. Basically third-person fighter games with combo attacks, a relatively clear direction (even when there are multiple available), and an easy-to-understand progressive skill tree. Anything with characteristics like “strength, charisma, durability” etc. tends to lose me very quickly because while those words have very clear and obvious meanings in the real world, it never explains what those things actually mean in the game and I find myself just upgrading them almost totally randomly.
It’s why wikis are created and maintained.
When I’m relaxing I don’t want to spend my time reading documents, personally. I never see any mention of “pick up and play-ability” in reviews and no one ever seems to complain about the complexity so I inevitably end up buying these games because gamers rave about them, playing for a few hours, and then getting bored/confused and dropping them, which ends up being a giant waste of time and money because I got zero enjoyment out of them.
Ok, then don’t play them. No one is forcing you.
You said BG3 was a gift, so it’s not costing you anything to not play something you don’t like.
Given what you’ve said, I would suggest avoiding anything with an RPG label anywhere.
For BG3, if you want to keep playing, you can skip the character creator. They have a dozen prebuilt options you can play without doing the detail work.
For inventory, you can ask your brother to handle it and send everything to camp.
But even with those, you’ll likely not enjoy BG3 because even the fighting mechanics are based around that type of complex decision making, making you pause all the time so that you can make those decisions.
It’s ok to tell your brother you don’t enjoy the gameplay. You don’t have to like it just because other people do.
And what they’re saying is that those elements are fun to the people who play these games.
Weighing different priorities to choose the best or preferred option for the future is flexing some very serious psychological muscles. Developing strategies to do it well is these types of people’s version of practicing 3 point shots.Reading you complain about it (which is fine, it doesn’t have to be your sort of game!) is like listening to someone complain about how many times they have to throw the ball in basketball. “I just wanted to dribble and dunk, what are all of these other silly elements for? They’re just getting in the way!”
If you want a really good comparison between these types of gamers and others, look at Path of Exile versus Diablo 4. Diablo took the mass-market appeal route, and de-prioritized many of the elements that more serious gamers enjoyed.
Now Path of Exile is a free to play money printing machine, and Diablo gets headlines for how poorly it’s doing. There are many detailed analysis’ online about why, and most of the reasons come down to removing the ‘complicated’ parts you’re talking about.
And what they’re saying is that those elements are fun to the people who play these games.
In no way did I respond to that.
Weighing different priorities to choose the best or preferred option for the future is flexing some very serious psychological muscles. Developing strategies to do it well is these types of people’s version of practicing 3 point shots.
That’s all well and good but the game often doesn’t give you the knowledge required to make those choices thoughtfully. It feels like I’m expected to spend my days on internet forums and search engines just to figure out how to play the game.
If that’s the case, that’s fine, I will just avoid the game. But I feel like there should be some sort of disclaimer in the store.
Reading you complain about it
I haven’t complained about anything. I just asked a question.
That’s all well and good but the game often doesn’t give you the knowledge required to make those choices thoughtfully
This is a complaint. One that other commenters have addressed.
It’s often an intentional and critical part of the vision of the game and why people play
Elden Ring, specifically, hides information from the player on purpose, intending for them to discover things through experience.
It doesn’t hold your hand at all and is arguably one of the better games in the last decade, in no small part due to features you are referencing.
This is a complaint.
You are interpreting is as a complaint. But it is not. It is a relevant observation to the topic at hand.
intending for them to discover things through experience.
…through what experience? The experience of trawling wiki docs? Are they in the game or are they not in the game?
That particular decision was to keep them immersed in the game, and exploring.
But back to your warning label topic, what do you expect that to look like?
“E for e=mc^2”? Or “S for Seseme Street approved”?
We already have shenanigans in the rating system, this would be monumentally worse.
I am really curious what a metric for game complexity would even look like
My inventory is finite and at some point I have to choose what stays and what goes.
It’s not, actually. You can send anything and everything to camp and decide about it later on. This includes camp supplies/food.
I was not speaking about any specific game.
The Baldur’s Gate character creator is a lot less daunting if you’ve played D&D before. Honestly I’ve seen far scarier character creation screens
Sounds to me like you just don’t want to think that hard, which is fine, I usually don’t either. Half of the time I just play Doom .wads
BG3 specifically: It’s D&D 5e, so… yeah It’s gonna be complex.
Complex systems more generally:
The best way to learn about any complex system is to bite tiny chunks out of it and ignore the rest, even if you know stuff is interconnected. You’ll never learn everything at once, so don’t try. Eventually you get bored with the little bubble you’ve carved out for yourself so you move over and learn about some other bit. You don’t even need to care about whether you’ll understand everything eventually.
Reading the title i thought about titles like mech engineer or the like where you almost have to read a 50 pages manual. Not Deep Rock Galactic 0.0
Deep Rock is good at letting you ignore what you don’t care about. I’ve never needed a wiki for it. It’s just fun and silly co op action, with massive complexity mostly about trivial things.
If you’re really struggling to click with a game, I’ve found watching a “let’s play” on YouTube helps me out.
If games seem to have a steep learning curve my approach is usually to just wade in and get started.
Sure, I won’t play super efficiently and I’ll make mistakes but that’s all fine for me. I spend all day at work trying to optimize and be efficient, I don’t need to do that in my games unless I happen to find the process fun or rewarding in a particular game.
I think it’s easy as adults to lose our sense of play with video games, but you can cultivate it by just saying fuck it and using your intuition. It’s a game, the stakes are low.
This!
The fun of this games are learning what are good or bad combination of traits.
Its true that if you already have playe Dungeon and dragóns or are used to play this short of games need less tries until you found something that works
Or does each game just build on top of working knowledge of previous similar Games?
This. There is a sort of gaming DNA that you just internalize over time. I’ve been gaming for 30 years, I just know how that one breakable wall looks, that you need to come back to once you get bombs or whatever it is. I know the difference between a caster, a fighter and a rogue when I see them without knowing the exact details of their ability mechanics in this particular game. My intuition as to how a given ability is most likely going to work is also usually pretty close. Because they are often very similar across different games.
Also if you don’t know and don’t have to have the absolute optimal combination from square one, just pick what looks cool and try it. If it doesn’t work out, try something else. Most games allow respecs nowadays. We learn through failure and repitition.
Baldurs Gate allows “respeccing” too, which I presume is respecialistion?
It puts you back to level one, let’s you change class entirely even, but you keep your experience so you can level all the way up again straight away, making different choices.
Have a look at Dwarf Fortress too. It could melt your brain.
I read the title thinking about DF or crusader kings. Nope, deep rock galactic. Wut?
Aslo rock and stone
I’m playing Baldur’s Gate 3 with Wyll as my mage, and two custom hirelings that I brought in to replace Shadowheart the cleric, and the vampire thief guy who I was really liking up until he tried to bite me. So I killed him. Also thinking about letting Gale starve to death because I’d rather sell surplus magic items. The heroic characters talked too fucking much, and I didn’t appreciate all their drama. Hirelings are quiet and they kill who I want them to kill without complaing about it.
I’m playing a half-drow elemental monk who somehow learned to play the lute and lyre. He’s black because I’m black, which is also why I wanted Wyll. I found a cowboy hat somewhere.
The best playstyle is to do whatever the fuck you want, and this is it.
I just pick a character class that looks interesting, make them look like me, and get going.
Figure it out as I play, and just have fun. I pretty much never watch videos or read anything about games unless I get really stuck, or have already finished the game and am curious about other playstyles.
Isn’t Baldur’s Gate 3 just DnD, so thats easy as I already have that knowledge. All the others don’t seem that complex.
Deep Rock is Shoot Stuff, mine, don’t die
Overwatch is only complex when you get past the early learning and pissing around and start learning characters and trying to counter pick. Which you don’t need to do to have fun.
Destiny I don’t remember much of. I guess it had some more complex movement and stats so that one might be more complex.
Isn’t Baldur’s Gate 3 just DnD
I guess so? Never played DnD in my life and didn’t realize that.
Overwatch is only complex when you get past the early learning and pissing around and start learning characters and trying to counter pick. Which you don’t need to do to have fun.
Just feel like I’m gonna get my ass kicked by all the people who understand all the mechanics instead of just fucking around in-game. Would just be nice if they included the necessary info in the game instead of making you search it up online.
BG3 uses D&D fifth edition rules, and the game is set in the Forgotten Realms, which is the official setting for D&D right now. That being said, that can be a lot to get into, and the BG3 tutorial is trash. For character creation you might just want to pick one of the origin characters. Creating a custom character can take a good long while, even if you know the rules already. The origin characters have most of the basic classes covered and will give you a feel for the game. If you want to change it up, there is a way to change your class and stats partway through act 1. That will at least get you in the game and playing, where there are tooltips that pop up.
BG3 uses D&D fifth edition rules, and the game is set in the Forgotten Realms, which is the official setting for D&D right now.
I don’t know what any of these words mean, but thank you.
D&D fifth edition rules
This is the fifth version of D&D, released a few years ago I believe. Each version of D&D is called an “edition” and each one contains changes & new rules, characters, settings, stories, etc. Think of it like an update to a video game. Some people prefer old editions, some like new editions. The rules in BG3 are mostly from 5th edition (abbreviated as 5e). Like with video games, the publishers of D&D are called “Wizards of the Coast” so when people refer to editions, they refer to updates released by that particular company. Other companies make other versions, modifications, and campaigns within and like D&D, but only WotC makes D&D editions.
Forgotten realms
This is just the setting for D&D. It’s rather high fantasy, and if you’re playing a bog standard D&D game in real life, this is probably where your story is going to be set. Most of the settings within the Forgotten Realms are set within the large continent of Faerun. FWIW, “Baldur’s Gate” Is the name of a canonical city in Faerun. It’s a very wealthy and prosperous merchant city state. There are other campaigns and stories from other continents in the Forgotten Realms (and from beyond the forgotten realms), but Faerun is by far the most fleshed out.
TL;DR: 5e is the “fifth edition,” which is the most current “official” ruleset for the game. The Forgotten Realms are the official setting for the game. Faerun is the main continent, and Baldur’s Gate is a city on that continent.
Overwatch makes new players do tutorials on each of the heroes now as well as describing all the abilities at any time in the selection screen. I think if you were to explore it again and play for a while you would learn it all really quickly. The characters aren’t really that complex once you learn what is going on haha. Definitely at first it’s just chaos and dunno why you’re dying
I just went and checked it out and it’s free-to-play and the reviews are “overwhelmingly negative”, both of which typically keep me far far away haha
Also all of the “most helpful” reviews are just memes and not even reviews at all. WTF is that about?
Lmao gotcha. I mostly played when it first came out. I imagine the reason it was overwhelmingly negative was the review bombing of the “overwatch 2” which is the exact same as overwatch one except they forced everyone to switch to this one where the only difference is the addition of a store. everything that used to be free cosmetic wise is now payable content.
everything that used to be free cosmetic wise is now payable content.
And they badger you every 5 minutes about buying it. Pretty much what I figured.
For me, it’s a combination of “just jump in and wing it” and building on top of working knowledge from previous similar games. But I’m very much a “learning while doing” person, so if I tried to research how to play a game first, it’s not like the knowledge would sink in. I build up a working knowledge by jumping in and trying stuff out, and a lot of knowledge has at least some cross-compatibility between games of the same genre, even if the game mechanics are a bit different. As I play a lot of games with my partner, we’re often both learning a new game at the same time, and you’d be amazed how often we’ll have a conversation that can be summarised as “I’ve discovered how to do X. It’s like Y from game Z, except you do A instead of B.”
When the game allows for it, I always play on the easiest difficulty setting while I’m learning, as that makes the game more forgiving of mistakes. There’s no shame in playing on easy mode, even for serious gamers. :)
For a first time don’t try to get the strongest character possible. It’s a time sink to do that. Usually the main campaign of games are beatable even if you screw up something. The worst that can happen is you backtracking a bit and spending time to level up before doing the next quest.
When you played the game once and got used to the mechanics you can make a 2nd char and plan it more deeply ahead if you wish. You know what mechanics you like so the prospect of finding what to invest in what is worth etc… becomes more streamlined. But you don’t have to. You can just be happy to have finished the game and call it a day.
That’s what I did for Diablo 4. After the main campaign I did not feel like venturing more into the game or making another character so I started playing another game. If you really want to 100% a game it does require a ton of time and planning but you don’t have to
This. For bg3 I started by looking up a simple question around class complexity. Landed on fighter for my first class and then only looked up specific questions I had about how something works if I wanted to consider it.
That was only to verify I understood what it was saying it did correctly.
