Wow, there is a lot of pearl-clutching and gatekeeping ITT. It’s delicious!
Bruh this cracked me up
Bruh good to hear bruh, bruh
Don’t forget that GPT4 was getting dumber the more it learned from people.
Engineering is about trust. In all other and generally more formalized engineering disciplines, the actual job of an engineer is to provide confidence that something works. Software engineering may employ fewer people because the tools are better and make people much more productive, but until everyone else trusts the computer more, the job will exist.
If the world trusts AI over engineers then the fact that you don’t have a job will be moot.
Hmm. I’ve never thought about it that way. It took a long time for engineering to become that way IIRC - in the past anybody could build a bridge. The main obstacle to this, then, is that people might be a bit too risk-tolerant around AI at first. Hopefully this is where it ends up going, though.
Very interesting point. Probably the most pressing problem then is to find a way for the black box to be formally verified and the role of AI engineers shifts to keeping the CI\CD green.
As someone who works on the city side of development review, I can firmly say I’ll trust a puppy alone with my dinner than a Civil Engineer.
Are civil engineers known to eat off people’s plates?
Think they confused it with uncivil engineers
It’s more thrust than trust.
People don’t have anywhere near enough knowledge of how things work to make their choices based on trust. People aren’t getting on the subway because they trust the engineers did a good job; they’re doing it because it’s what they can afford and they need to get to work.
Similarly, people aren’t using Reddit or Adobe or choosing their cars firmware based on trust. People choose what is affordable and convenient.
What’s being discussed here is the hiring of engineers rather than consumer choices. Hiring an engineer is absolutely an expression of trust. The business trusts that the engineer will be able to concretely realize abstract business goals, and that they will be able to troubleshoot any deviations.
AI writing code is one thing, but intuitively trusting that an AI will figure out what you want for you and keep things running is a long way off.
In civil engineering public works are certified by an engineer; its literally them saying if this fails i am at fault. The public is trusting the engineer to say its safe.
Yeah, people may not know that the subway is safe because of engineering practices, but if there was a major malfunction, potentially involving injuries or loss of life, every other day, they would know, and I’m sure they would think twice about using it.
On a more serious note, ChatGPT, ironically, does suck at webdev frontend. The one task that pretty much everyone agrees could be done by a monkey (given enough time) is the one it doesn’t understand at all.
I don’t think it’s very useful at generating good code or answering anything about most libraries, but I’ve found it to be helpful answering specific JS/TS questions.
The MDN version is also pretty great too. I’ve never done a Firefox extension before and MDN Plus was surprisingly helpful at explaining the limitations on mobile. Only downside is it’s limited to 5 free prompts/day.
Chat gpt is also great if you have problems with Linux. It is my nr 1 trouble shooting tool.
The one task that pretty much everyone agrees could be done by a monkey
A phrase commonly uttered about web dev by mediocre programmers who spend 99% of the time writing the same copy-paste spring boot mid-tier code
Right, the pretty little button needs more shadows
I am astonished at your ignorance and your arrogance
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I still have nightmares dealing with a11y requirements
Same but it’s very important
most of the websites are bloated and shit. Webdev is shit upon because they write code that can’t work 4 months without needing a rewrite
I agree, and in addition to way too many trackers and advertisements clogging up the page, this is also due to the time, effort, and knowledge not being provided to write performant and compliant code, which should be important given the infinite possibilities of client machines. This can be worsened by only having full stack developers who aren’t knowledgeable in web dev (especially CSS) or by sacrificing performance for trendy javascript-bloated design features
You do of course realize that you just said that the problem with the modern web is that webdev can be and far too often is done by monkeys?
I agree that there is a vast difference, even from an end user’s perspective, between a good web developer and a bad one, but the fact remains that the bar for calling oneself a web dev is appallingly low and ChatGPT nevertheless fails to clear it
I suppose you could see it like that, but I’m saying it can’t be done by “monkeys”, and the pervasive notion that it can has led to broken websites across the Internet
I think I see what you mean. Many a very competent backend dev (and many more a kid in their bedroom with zero programming experience) has thought to themselves “how hard can webdev possibly be?” and blindly stumbled through making a website that looks fine on their machine without bothering to understand what the various CSS units do and turning it into an utter monstrosity if you even slightly change the size of the browser window, and the web suffers for it.
As a primarily backend dev myself who’s tried my hand at web once or twice, I still think that web developers are by far the most pampered in the industry when it comes to development tools (I can change CSS parameters with sliders right in my browser, see the page update in real time, and when I’m done I can just export the modified .css file to disk and upload it directly to my server with zero touchup to make my changes live? Are you KIDDING ME?) but I also think it’s important to treat the practice with the respect it deserves. By that I mean taking the time to learn the languages, read through MDN’s excellent documentation, and take the time to fully understand what each CSS parameter actually does instead of trial-and-erroring your way into something that only works for you. The same thing you’d do if you were learning any new programming language. Once you do that, apart from a few hiccups due to browser inconsistencies (any time Safari would like to stop eating glue I’d appreciate it) and having to come up with something that looks good in portrait, and get past a metric f**k ton of googling and memorizing the minute differences between dozens of very similar parameters, it’s some of the most fun I’ve had as a programmer. I love being able to just go “I want a bunch of circles at the top of my page that bounce up and down in sequence.” “Sure, give me two minutes.” I’d stress about that for days in any other environment. Why didn’t anyone tell me it could BE like this?
A good chunk of that has to do with trackers and ads. Things forced on webdevs by management.
Not that webdevs couldn’t improve anything otherwise; there are certainly optimizations to be had. But pop open the dev network panel on your browser, clear cache, and refresh the page. A lot of the holdup and dancing elements you’ll see are from third party trackers and ads.
GPT 4 Turbo is actually much better than GPT 3.5 and 4 for coding. It has a way better understanding of design now.
You don’t need to convince the devs, you need to convince the managers.
ಠ_ಠ
This AI thing will certainly replace my MD to HTML converter and definitely not misplace my CSS and JS headers
MD to HTML? You are a blessing dude.
Yea of course! I can link a bitbucket for the file if you’d like. It’s hardcoded to my file structure, but should still be useful if you need something like it
Not really a progrmmer myself (just bash and a bit of python and html), idk what a bitbucket is buy i’d take it just in case if I decide to learn it. Thx a lot!
only because ai hasn’t replaced the client… yet
Who has four thumbs and a top tier business plan? This AI!
I just used copilot for the first time. It made me a ton of call to action text and website page text for various service pages inwas creating for a home builder. It was surprisingly useful, of course I modified the output a bit but overall saved me a ton of time.
id argue it’s more work to get chatgpt to suggest a CTA of “Download now” or “Learn more” than it is to type it by hand.
i get copilot through github education and let me tell you the first time i put out a bunch of code related to one of my entities, i was floored. it’s definitely not there to write your entire app but it saves so much time
Copilot has cut my workload by about 40% freeing me up for personal projects
Copilot is only dangerous in the hands of people who couldn’t program otherwise. I love it, it’s helped a ton on tedious tasks and really is like a pair programmer
Yeah it’s perfect for if you can distinguish between good and bad generations. Sometimes it tries to run on an empty text file in vscode and it just outputs an ingredients list lol
Copilot has cut my personal projects by about 40% freeing me up for work
See, your mistake was telling your employer that you have free time.
What is the joke here?
User claims to have made a website using chatgpt, putting programmers out of their jobs. However, it’s revealed user knows next to nothing about making that website accessible for others, as revealed from the last line. User sent a local link (that works for their own computer only) to their friend (which naturally shouldn’t work).
Nobody else can see the files on your c:\ drive. Designing a “website” means little if you don’t have a place to host it
Is it OK if I put them in D:\ 😂😂😂
Gotta be on the internet drive, I:\
Idk, there’s a lot of people who have jobs designing websites without a place to host it. Shoot, people get paid to design an image of a website.
This sort of thing worked in the '90s. Many of the security restrictions in browsers these days means it doesn’t consider the local file to be actually local, and you have to host from some kind of server. There are mini servers that are trivial to spin up, like SimpleHTTPServer on Python.
The joke is it’s an iMessage chat and they are sending a Windows path which doesn’t make sense for iOS or Mac, the only two operating systems that support iMessage.
Might be about time for testers to start cr4pping their pants tho.
These morons are probably going to train AI wrong so job security for the next 100 years.
I predict that, within the year, AI will be doing 100% of the development work that isn’t total and utter bullshit pain-in-the-ass complexity, layered on obfuscations, composed of needlessly complex bullshit.
That’s right, within a year, AI will be doing .001% of programming tasks.
Fellow freelancer, I see.
Big companies will take 5 years just to get there.
Can we just get it to attend meetings for us?
Hell yes! I’ll join the front of the hype train if they can demo an AI fielding questions while a project manager reviews a card wall.
Y’know… that seems reasonable. I’d place my bet that there’d be something good enough in only a few years. (Text only, I’d bet)
Legitimately could be a use case
“Attend this meeting for me. If anyone asks, claim that your camera and microphone aren’t working. After the meeting, condense the important information into one paragraph and email it to me.”
Here is a summary of the most important information from that meeting. Since there were two major topics, I’ve separated them into two paragraphs.
- It is a good morning today.
- Everyone is thanked for their time. Richard is looking forward to next week’s meeting.
The rest of the information was deemed irrelevant to you and your position.
Holy cow! You’ve done it! You could wrap this (static text block) in a web API and sell it.
Edit: /s, I guess. But that text really is easily an 80% solution for meeting summaries.
I think the correct response is “Wow. Has your mom seen it? Send her the link.”
This is so evil I love it
why? wouldn’t she simply be unable to open it too?
If it’s on the same device, it would open a page showing her what is in the downloads folder of his user. I think the joke is he might have something embarrassing there, but I wouldn’t know since I only have things there when I’m downloading them and then immediately file them away to some actual hyperspecific folder
why would they be on the same device? how can they be on the same device at the same time? also if she gets the full link it would only show her the html page, not the rest of the folder
I think it’s both?
- Send link to her but it doesn’t work because it’s only available on the local machine
- Show the website by first opening the downloads folder then clicking the website
You can bring your device to people. Most people use laptops now instead of desktops
The joke is that ben’s mom will ask him how to open it. Ben thinks that it is possible, ben will have a bad time.
The only thing ChatGPT etc. is useful for, in every language, is to get ideas on how to solve a problem, in an area you don’t know anything about.
ChatGPT, how can I do xy in C++?
You can use the library ab, like …That’s where I usually search for the library and check the docs if it’s actually possible to do it this way. And often, it’s not.
It’s good at refactoring smaller bits of code. The longer the input, the more likely it is to make errors (and you should prefer to start a new chat than continue a long chat for the same reason). It’s also pretty good at translating code to other languages (e.g. MySQL->PG, Python->C#), reading OpenAPI json definitions and creating model classes to match, and stuff like that.
Basically, it’s pretty good when it doesn’t have to generate stuff that requires creating complex logic. If you ask it about tasks, languages, and libraries that it has likely trained a lot on (i.e. the most popular stuff in FOSS software and example repos), it doesn’t hallucinate libraries too much. And, GPT4 is a lot better than GPT3.5 at coding tasks. GPT3.5 is pretty bad. GPT4 is a bit better to Copilot as well.
I’ve found it great for tracking down specific things in libraries and databases I’m not terribly familiar with when I don’t know the exact term for them
Yeah, it’s amazing at showing you the idiomatic way to do really specific, narrow-scoped things in a language you’re not familiar with… except for when it’s wrong.
