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not a kde user but huge respect to them
It’s not my primary driver, but I would gladly choose KDE over Windows.
“But can Linux install things via a single .exe file? HAHAH EAT IT NERD!”
- 10’ish years ago past me, before discovering the magical wonders of the package manager
I still am intimidated by the terminal as I’ve only had slight experience with CMD
Honestly, if all you’ve ever experienced in regards to terminals is windows CMD, then you really haven’t seen much. I mean that possitively. Actually, it will give you a far worse impression on what using a Linux / Unix terminal can be like (speaking as someone who spent what feel’s like years in terminals, of which the least amount in windows CMD).
I suggest to simply play around with a Linux terminal (e.g. install VirtualBox,.then use it to install e.g. Ubuntu, then follow some simple random “Linux terminal beginner tutorial” you can find online).
The Windows Terminal is absolute Garbage. I tried to use it for some very simple stuff and it was such a trash experience. It just feels wrong.
With app images it’s easier than installing. Although the chmod step will deter the typical windows user
I installed Linux a few weeks ago and it was on Tuesday I wanted to add some programs I had installed (it was mGBA and melonDS) to my steam launcher, I went through the hassle of making a . desktop file for both of them (I was dumb and used a Ubuntu based distro, so it installed as a snap, which sucks hard on a hdd) and then it wouldn’t launch, I searched up again (I was using chatGPT for all of this, I asked it a lot how to do stuff, it’s like this was it’s purpose beacuse it always worked first try), did the chmod x+ command and then I was done
Just to see it not launch :/
What chmod step?
When I clicked on new app image, the OS told me, that program /name of app/ will be launched, I clicked “Continue” and it runs! No meddling with “chmod” or anything like that.
ELF and .sh files need to be set executable,
chmod +x file, before they can be run, unless your DE does that for youDunno about appimages
KDE does exactly like that
(I am using MX Linux)At least for Ubuntu, you do need to set the permissions of the AppImage before it’ll launch.
I still haven’t figured out how to make .desktop files work yet.
Same, I love AppImages for that. I just wish they also had way to contain configurations instead of putting it on the system. That would make it even more portable.
How do you actually install an AppImage? I figured out how to use them, but not how to install them.
You don’t install them. You just give them the permission to run and then run them.
There is no install needed, you can just edit permissions and make the file executable and then when you open it or click it the app runs.
What won’t be created by default is an application menu to run it from whatever desktop environment you use. You can create those if you wish. You can create a launcher in the menu manually, or you can use a tool called AppImageLauncher to create these for you.
There’s a pretty good explanation here: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1311600/add-an-appimage-application-to-the-top-menu-bar
With file managers, for example in thunar, you can select Properties -> Permissions -> Allow this file to run as a program
also for non-KDE, non-Gnome systems, there’s appimaged – requires a little more setup, but handles the set executable, automates the AppImage integration (
.desktopfiles and menus), keeps a watch on specific folders for new AppImages, and provides a way to check for updatesI’m saving this. I don’t use any appimages (except a cracked Minecraft bedrock launcher but we dont talk about that one), but I’m still going to save this.
I found since people are used to app stores, I’ve had a much easier time convincing people to try out Linux. My mom even said that she always wished her windows PC had a proper app store.
But Windows does have an app store, and has for ages now.
Yeah but it’s awful, and can only install UWP apps which are just plain bad
Sure, but pretty much every common application most people use is available, which is fine for the majority of people such as OPs mom.
Don’t tell people to use the ms store fam. Chances are they will install a virus
I can’t even get the fuckin’ thing to open half the time. There’s no way in hell I’m using that buggy piece of shit to install important software.
What crap machine are you running? I can open the store on my Surface 3 I’ve had for nearly a decade.
I don’t think getting instagram, or photoshop off the microsoft store is giving anyone a virus. And I’ve never gotten a virus from it in the few times I’ve used it.
Most of them are, but there are non UWP apps on there too.
When is the last time you’ve used it? Microsoft opened it up and now you can find all types of non UWP apps in it.
Still ass though.
Just install/update App Installer and use winget.
Windows has also had a variety of freeware since before there was never an app store
Of course, and much of it is on the app store now (which I rarely use myself), but for someone like OPs mom who just wants an easy app store, well there is one.
It’s not that good. It’s ok (especially now that it’s been unshackled from the hell of UWP), but it’s not as good as most Linux options.
For someone like OPs mom it would be more than good enough is my point. She’s saying she wished something existed that does indeed exist.
I think it’s still important to explain the key difference between an “app store” and a package repository: the latter isn’t a “store” because everything is free.
True but it helps get the concept across so much.
Thst might change with Flathub’s ambitions to become an actual app store though
Did I just heard that right? Flathub wants to charge for software?
Yes. Flathub wants to become a platform where people and companies can sell their software
Well hey, as long as these participating devs maintain that their software remains FOSS, I’d pay up. They do a lot of good work, can’t do it all for free.
Not to mention Flatpaks.
Can I use MS Office natively with that? Also, can I use it as a non-techie lay man in a way that is similar to the way most office bottom-feeders use Windows?
I know there is Open Office but I am lawyer and the free office alternatives just don’t have the rich formatting options I need to do my job. I have tried and they just won’t do.
Just out of interest: What are the specific formating options / features you’re missing to be able to perform your job?
ToC via Styles formatting and Table of authorities - these are from the top of my head, which I remember not working properly with Open Office. They need to work when I do them and also should be displayed correctly when I receive them from colleagues in docx format.
Format painter, track changes, spell checker in two languages, intendation adjustments, page breaks, and paste as text - I use these like crazy but I don’t remember if they were OK in Open Office or not.
honestly Libreoffice is not on par with MS Office. I use MS at work and Linux at home and Libreoffice is great for general use, but it is very rough around the edges, and does not have all the capability that MS does. I wish it were not the case but lack of an excellent office suite is one weaknesses of Linux.
Fyi: Libre Office is the actively developed Open Office fork.
Don’t know how it stacks up to MS Office though.
In my opinion, it stacks up VERY well, even better, except the toolbar is by-default a mess for some reason while there’s a very easy option to set it to tabbed.
Interesting. Will have a look on the snazzy package manager and give it a go. Ta.
How does the UI size work out for you? I recently took a look at it on a windows pc and the tiny size of most things is the one problem I have with it. Then again, I read something about being able to scale different programs individually somewhere (not for windows though)
Can I use MS Office natively with that?
Not the full suite, natively. You can install it via PlayonLinux, which works well without fiddling, or you can use Office 365 on the web.
Also, can I use it as a non-techie lay man in a way that is similar to the way most office bottom-feeders use Windows?
Yes.
I know there is Open Office but I am lawyer and the free office alternatives just don’t have the rich formatting options I need to do my job. I have tried and they just won’t do.
Open Office is deprecated. You can use LibreOffice which is free. Or WPS Office or SoftMaker Office, which run on Linux and are 100% compatible with MS Office, but cost money.
Also Only office, which appears to have the best compatibility with MS documents (although in my particular case I find it a bit cumbersome).
Last I used it, it seemed to lack a lot of more advanced features. I think I especially stumbled over the bibliography, though I did not use any add-ons.
One can use Zotero ad Mendeley plugins for bibliography, btw.
First of all, libre office is very competent but I understand that it’ll always be very behind whetever Microsoft decides to do next.
Office is available on all systems at office365.com if you must use Microsoft tools.
For the non-tech usage, very much yes. Most of the problems your hear about with linux stem from people trying to make it do stuff that you can’t dream of doing on windows because it will stop you. Simply installing a system and using it to browse the web, edit documents, maybe install a few popular programs like VLC or Discord is set-and forget. System installers have recently gotten much more noob-friendly as well, imo the debian and Pop!OS installers don’t really allow you to mess up. KDE is a good choice of DE, but you might be more confortable with others. Good news, you can decide later, as switching desktop Environments is easy and preserves your files.
So basically ever since I first tried Windows 7 I held it as the “Gold standard” for desktop OS’s. Half my tweaks to Windows 10 were trying to get it as close to Win7 as I possibly could.
When I finally start experimenting with Linux early this year KDE quickly got me to reconsider my “Gold standard” and finally switch my main machine fully to Linux.
No regrets and certainly ain’t switching back even if Microsoft gave me updated Windows 7 with every extra feature I wanted back then.
I set my KDE up to look as much like Windows 7 as possible.
I think that was peak desktop design before designers started changing shit just to stay relevant.
I’ve been a Linux user for a decade and a half now, but still use Windows on my corporate laptops. Honestly, it’s baffling how Microsoft seem to consistently manage to miss the mark with the UI design. There’s lots to be said about the underlying internals of Windows vs Linux, performance, kernel design etc., but even at the shallow, end user, “is this thing pleasant to use” stakes, they just never manage to get it right.
Windows 7 was…fine. It was largely inoffensive from a shell point of view, although things about how config and settings were handled were still pretty screwy. But Windows 8 was an absolutely insane approach to UI design, Windows 10 spent an awful lot of energy just trying to de-awful it without throwing the whole thing out, and Windows 11 is missing basic UI features that even Windows 7 had.
When you look at their main commercial competition (Mac and Chromebook) or the big names in Linux (GNOME, KDE, plenty of others besides), they stand out as a company that simply can’t get it right, despite having more resources to throw at it than the rest of them put together.
I’ve noticed a trend in modern design where designers will put out garbage to ‘keep people on their seats’ waiting for it to be fixed.
It seems like a big company’s problem. They have a well-paid design\marketing department that can do whatever they want to create the best-selling interface for the new version of Windows, but before it’s released, no one tested it yet for anything but bugs, and who’d argue with a flock of top designers anyway? Add here the board of directors who are here to sell them ideas and who won’t use it either – I’m sure they applauded to the idea of unifying mobile and desktop experience with WinPhone&Win8, but especially Tablet-Laptop transformers they saw as the future. It sounds great on the paper, right? At that time it could’ve even sounded obvious for their business. And so it happened like it did.
Linux counters it by constant feedback and competition between easily switchable DEs, users being prepared even to jump distros; Apple has a fetish for style and experience (that’s a half of their pricetag), they build their business model about looking and feel nice, so you’d build an ecosystem of their products, you can’t even see error windows here and their garden is gated af; and ChromeOS\Android aren’t shy of looking what others do (like iPhone’s design findings) and conservatively taking what works, also having tons of vendor-created restyles\forks on their own platform as a testing ground for new ideas to make them then a standard. MS lack all of it, and their creative process is guided by external interests and ideals, it’s just an afterthought. And as they have their stable market share, they probably won’t even care. It took whole internet’s screams to return their traditional start menu in win8.1, then w10.
That’d probably stay the same until their new CEO would happen to be an art college graduate - like the current one pushed for accessebility and building special controllers because she has a child with a disability. A top-down signal. I won’t bet on it anytime soon.
The fact that Windows 11 has removed the ability to move the taskbar and has no intention of adding it back is just baffling to me. It’s a small thing but so jarring every time I try to use it that I’ve barely used my desktop in the last few months.
What drives me crazy is how they can’t update all their configuration interface to the same standard, if you go deep enough you still fine things that are unchanged since Windows 98
Yep. Drill down one level in a few control panel items and you’re back in win xp.
that the modern Settings still falls back on Control Panel most of the time
I can understand wanting to replace Control Panel but all they ended up doing was creating a Windows Shell frontend
Needs more system settings, there’s only three.
To me it’s absurd how Microsoft gets beaten by a free desktop environment when windows is like their main product. They have billions of dollars. How do they manage to not do better?
Because they dont have to.
No developer is ever passionate about MS.
I’d sooner not code than write garbage for Windows in visual basic.
windows is like their main product
TBF it isn’t really - only about 12% of their revenue. It’s more of a means to lock people into their other products.
Well, that’s the thing, it’s the core part of their entire business. The glue that sticks everything together. Or at least used to be until Azure.
I hate to say this, because I know how cringe it is, but… Windows 7 actually removed a lot of features that made Windows fun. And yeah, I’m talking about ricing and I’m unironically saying ricing is valid.
The mid 2000s was an awesome time to be in the ricing community - between litestep, blackbox, foobar2k, rainlendar/rainmeter etc, you could actually make your experience look however you wanted.
And, litestep in particular, for me, was a gateway drug to openbox and therefore Linux - when you finally hit The Windows Wall, where, to go any further, you had to step into Linux, Ubuntu was there, and then Mint, and then…idr what.
I still have my 2007 Ubuntu installation cd that they mailed to me for free. Sure, you could just make your own installation cd rom, but, if you couldn’t, they would happily mail you one - or, as in my case, you felt motivated to evangelize, they’d send you a bunch that you could give out to people. I gave mine to friends and left some others at the local anarchist bookstore (I don’t remember the name of it but this was Washington DC just north of Chinatown).
Windows 7 was a big step backwards. You could still do a lot of ricing, but less - and it was very clear from the direction that Windows 7 went, that whatever came next would be worse.
What is “ricing”? Sounds like you might be talking about theming?
Yeah, ricing is slang for the r/unixporn kind of themeing. It comes from car culture, where RICE stands for “race-inspired cosmetic enhancement”
Fwiw rice is a backronym, it originally comes from just “rice burners” which were the kind of cars & motorcycles that got “cosmetically enhanced”
it originally comes from just “rice burners”
The term is often defined as offensive or racist stereotyping.
Yikes, I think I’ll just stick to “themeing”
Ricing is usually used for extreme, often gaudy theming and personalization, with emphasis on looks rather than real usability
Oh uh yeah my grandpa uses that word in a very similar context, not sure I’d repeat it though myself
Idk if I would say it’s looks > usability, and it’s certainly not gaudy… There are theming styles that are much more unusable and gaudy than the “riced” look.
It’s an aesthetic that idealizes a kind of barebones utility, and while it often will lean towards the look over the usability, the look itself is like a “beautiful utilitarian” - minimalistic, uncluttered, etc.
Oh shit, I remember LiteStep and spending hours and hours to just fiddle with how my desktop looked. I personally felt Windows 2000 was the pinnacle of MS OSs (except so many games etc. wouldn’t run because rightly the OS reported it was Windows NT and a lot of games shat themselves at that)
Almost all my desktop gets used for anymore is gaming. The windows only anti cheat shit leaves me not messing with splitting what I boot up for.
In the newest windows, it is even possible to hover the volume icon and change it with the mouse wheel!!!
I have the same functionality on my waybar
KDE had that pretty much since the invention of the mouse wheel.
Wait, they didn’t have that before? Heck, even my sway install with Waybar has this.
Still not going back to Windows!
LOL!
Does clicking on it open the mixer, or still the useless menu which should be accessible with a right click instead?
I like QubesOS better.
And you can’t get de-crufted Win11 outside Europe! Another win for Plasma!
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Ah, yes, the good old goatse, among other amenities.
Reported for spam, btw.
offensive spam account, please ban forever
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Yeah like they (the Windows sheeple) celebrated a CLI package manager as if it was their best invention since sliced bread. Every Linux user was like yaaawwwn… “finally”
Looking to pick sides I see. Very funny
Do you known kde has discover to install and update applications with a gui right?
sheeple
c’mon man
Meh let him lord over people, better to let the mask fall off
Who in the world celebrated that?
Like, I get the self-reinforcing bubble that Linux communities exist in and all, but… nobody did that.
The vast majority of Windows users are random people that never touch anything beyond the Start menu in their entire computing lives. What segment of the Windows userbase is out there celebrating any features, let alone command line anything? This is not a thing. At least not in numbers large enough to matter.
Sorry, I try not to get involved in these arguments. Frankly, grown adults taking sides on operating systems of all things like it’s Sega vs Nintendo in a 90s playground seems very strange but I don’t begrudge people finding communities wherever. It’s just… you know, come on.
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People who do not use the dominant system/program/etc. often feel the need to tear down everyone else in order to validate their decision instead of just letting the results and their daily happiness with the decision speak for itself.
You don’t even need to quality it. Some people just feel the need to tear down others to make themselves feel good. It’s low self-esteem, misplaced onto whatever happens to be near them.
I think we’re all vulnerable to it, too. Part of being a good neighbor is checking yourself to see if you’re being a dick about your preferences, and just letting people enjoy what they enjoy (unless that thing is harming others; you know, common sense).
Oh yeah, let me be clear: I’m sure I engage in it myself. I like to think though that I’ve mostly gotten away from it, as I did plenty of that snobbery when I was younger with music and by the time I got to college realized that was just a really tool-ish way of acting that kept people away from what I thought was awesome art
This is me, just getting shit done. If you are constantly thinking about what OS you’re using, you’re doing it wrong.
Because I am too lazy to make an actual thread on mastodon I’m going to corner you and ask you a quick question if you don’t mind! Feel free to ignore haha.
I’ve recently dipped my toes in Linux and it’s been really fun learning about all of it, but I still haven’t really settled on an OS. Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel or trying to predict everything, I decided to use what I have right in front of me: my steamdeck! I figured playing around on SteamOS in desktop mode is a great way to acclimate myself to Linux a little bit and figure out what I really like and such.
What are some essential programs and QOL things you would recommend? I am interested in trying to host my Plex server off of it, maybe even fiddle around with video editing since that’s what I do professionally (resolve runs on Linux so not worried there), maybe some audio tools. I just want to kind of see what it would look like as a daily driver, though I am very aware that Steam OS has limitations as one.
I’m coming from Mac and I am pretty comfortable doing terminal commands, troubleshooting tech issues, and I’m pretty privacy concerned. Hence why I’m trying to migrate a little bit away for macOS potentially haha. Any and all suggestions are welcome! Even just good website or resources for learning more would be very welcome.
Sysadmins very commonly make a lot of use out of automating things with Powershell and various utilities that work with it.
Given that a pretty decent sized portion (I’d assume at least, no numbers to back that up sadly) of the Linux user base tends to be “cut from the same cloth” in terms of having the passion to automate (and heavily customize) their system - I would think this is why you see this sentiment repeated often.
Because I don’t want to have to hope that things work on Linux that work on Windows.
What is left? Photoshop? Excel?
Meh
You can literally use photoshop in your browser now, thanks to webassembly.
Looks neat but Adobe’s prices are always shockingly high.
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Proper CAD software :(
Proper CAD or AutoCAD? Those are not the same.
CAD, AutoCAD is just a CAD program
I meant if it was because AutoCAD or any other CAD program.
Ah nevermind, yeah at home/work I use SolidWorks and Fusion 360
Yeah, this. Freecad does not count even though it’s slowly getting better. There needs to be industry tools available.
I’ve been using ARES Commander for a few years now as an AutoCAD alternative on Linux.
An there is also BricsCAD for which the 3d options seem to better developed than with ARES.
Fusion 360 works pretty well via Lutris
You’re casually blowing off two of the main reasons why I still have to use Windows.
Is there a Linux alternative to Excel that will allow me to reliably write and execute VBA macros that I can then deploy to my windows using co-workers?
Is there a Linux alternative to Photoshop? Doesn’t even need to be the most current version. I’d be happy with something that is functionally comparable to Photoshop 7.
I’m not being glib with those questions either. It’s been probably ten years since I’ve really used Linux. If there are legitimate alternatives I’d absolutely give it another go.
Spin up a Windows VM in Linux for those apps.
Or at least dual boot if you are into Linux.
Or at a minimum put Linux on another device with older hardware…
;(
Photoshop is now available in the browser. Just Excel (not always, sometimes LibreOffice Calc with VBA compatibility does the trick), the other Adobe Creative Cloud applications, and some other Windows-only software (for example I dual boot Windows, because of advanced game macros written in AHK that don’t work on Linux via wine or ahk_x11, and I have failed in porting or rewriting them (it’s too big of a task, there is a whole team behind the actual macro). So… still some reasoms to run Windows, but fhese reasons are decreasing.
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Fully based
I came back to KDE after a long absence because I never liked it back in the day (I found it ugly and bloated). I was really surprised by how good it has become. It’s now my favourite desktop environment on Linux, and I’m looking forward to version 6. So to any other oldies still avoiding KDE because of how it used to be, it’s worth another look.
Oh, this is good news for me. I remember trying KDE years ago and feeling that it was just way too heavy. My goto is usually Cinnamon, but the lack of Wayland support has made me hesitant to go all in with out on my gaming PC. Def gonna give KDE a try, thanks!
Cinnamon was where I had ended up too. So now I have a couple of Linux Mint/Cinnamon machines and a Tumbleweed/KDE machine. It surprised me that I like KDE more.
I second your experience. It was not so impressive back then and 2indo2s was much nicer, but not anymore. I’m feeling it, this year Linux will be on top!
Edit: I tried to write Windows 🤷♂️
Here I am thinking there’s some obscure Linux project using a name that’s somehow a sequel to Windows, like a Windows 2, but also a play on the 2__4me meme.
Third. KDE is really amazing now.
