Damn there’s a lot of people here complaining about innovation.
Here’s a quick tip, if you can think in 10 seconds a problem with this, the engineers that work on these projects for YEARS probably already thought of it.
1 - Yes, wireless isn’t 100% reliable, so they are going to need more than one backup system. With a data connection between the trailer and the car, you have MANY ways to alert the driver that there’s a problem, AND your trailer has a processor that can safely handle problems. Heck, a VERY easy fix is to just keep a camera pointed at the license plate and keep it centered in the view while flashing a thing on the dashboard that the trailer isn’t working correct and you need to pull over. Worst case the trailer detects a problem and slows to a stop with the emergency flashers on, but even that would only be needed if several other options failed.
2 - People bitch all the time about Giant Dually Trucks™ that are just used for daily driving. Well, pulling trailers on the weekend is why a lot of people have the excuse for this. If we can eliminate the need for the heavy tow vehicle, then you can just drive a small sedan and still be able to go glamping on the weekends.
3 - There are MILLIONS of travel trailers out there right now. If we switch to small EVs overnight, we can either landfill all those trailers, or figure out a way to retrofit them to still be useful.
4 - Encryption is a thing. If this is using current, modern Wi-Fi, then you can be pretty damn sure that nobody is going to hack into that connection.
Sure, companies cut corners and cheap out of things all the time, but this is absolutely possible to do right, and solves an actual problem.
A processor that can safely handle problems on the road does not exist. And if a pseudo trailer exists with it and a drive train, it’s just an autonomous electric car. Buying two electric cars will not be price competitive with buying a larger vehicle for cargo/towing capacity, especially considering the additional hassle on the user (have to store two expensive vehicles, have to set up a pseudo tow between the two anytime you think you might need the capacity). So people will still buy large vehicles, there definitely won’t be a switch “overnight”. Besides, most of them already are bought based on an overstated/oversold need, making the purchase less rational will have a marginal, but not sea-changing, impact on buying habits. Encryption is good, but plenty of companies and individuals get hacked today, it will stop the vast majority of attack vectors but the idea of it stopping all attack vectors is borderline laughable. Why is landfilling trailers a positive thing? Preemptively replacing gear that is perfectly operational is part of the toxic consumerism cycle that has put our environment in this mess.
Speaking as an engineer, we may think about the best solution to a problem for years, but that doesn’t mean we are solving the right problem
Here’s a quick tip, if you can think in 10 seconds a problem with this, the engineers that work on these projects for YEARS probably already thought of it.
Then why do so many cars have fucking touchscreen infotainment systems?
You put a lot more faith in corporate engineers than I do, and I’m a corporate engineer.
The engineers do their best, then management gets to it.
Yeah, of course, the engineers thought of the problem. Then they reported it to management and management will ensure to always find a reason why exactly this problem (much like the rest of backlog) cannot be prioritized right now.
Also a corporate engineer. I put faith in corporations wanting to avoid lawsuits. Assuming you don’t have an insane billionaire calling the shots, the suits will make sure things are as safe as they need to be to avoid losing money.
Touchscreens in cars are a great example of this. It’s not a safety-critical component (like steering or brakes). The negative safety impact can be argued away in court. So the suits give touchscreens the a-okay. But if there’s a hint of a problem with steering, braking, or ECM, management will be in full support of a proper fix.
Not that they’d manage to avoid messing up wireless towing, but as long as there’s financial incentive in doing things right, management will fight for it.
2 - People bitch all the time about Giant Dually Trucks™ that are just used for daily driving. Well, pulling trailers on the weekend is why a lot of people have the excuse for this. If we can eliminate the need for the heavy tow vehicle, then you can just drive a small sedan and still be able to go glamping on the weekends.
How do you think this ‘little towing-robot-car thing’ is going to tow, steer and break a heavy trailer safely on the highway?
It got to be heavy for itself, needs a big battery pack, powerful motor… It’s basically got to be an F150 itself. Nice if you don’t need daily drive it, but it cost almost as much and won’t actually be very environment-friendly either I assume.
The brakes are part of the trailer. I’d imagine laws are different everywhere, but where I’m at trailer brakes are required for 3000+ pound trailers, though it’s a bit more complicated than that and even a 1500 pound trailer could require them.
Anyway, the point is that big 5th wheel travel trailers are way heavier than even a huge dually truck. A 7,000 pound truck can tow a 25,000 pound trailer. I’d imagine the towbot would be limited to something a bit more sane, like 6,000 pounds (class 3 hitch). Since the towbot doesn’t also have to carry passengers etc, I’d imagine 1,500 to 2,000 pounds for it.
(since you are using pounds, I’m just gona assume you are American?)
In Germany (and most of Europe) every car model has a its with/without breaks trailer wight limit in the paperwork, in general this is about the wight of the car and half of it if your trailer has no overrun breaks - no matter your license.
Without a special trailer or heavy duty license, you may not carry more then a metric ton (or 3/4 of it without breaks). Car+Trailer combined have to be below 3.5 metric tons - no matter the car you drive.
For your giggles: There are Hummers in Europe, but they are not allowed to carry more load then a Seat Ibiza if they are not registered as a heavy vehicle.
I would buy this, assuming it’s reliable over an f150 in a heart beat. If they can actually get it working reliably they will print money. I’d easily drop 15k on something like this. Fuck you can even share the cost between family members and friends.
Yeah I’m imagining that they’d be easy to rent U-Haul style. No need to drop 15k if you only tow your camper a few times per year.
I want to tow like 10-15 times a year though. I have no interest in an f150 but I’m saving up a down payment for that when what I would love is something like a Volvo v90 recharge to daily. I’d more than be able to share this tool with friends as well as family.
It has so so many use cases. Toyota really could print money here I think.
As someone who’s observed the process for these patents, typically the company just patents anything it thinks it can, regardless of whether or not the idea is practical or if they have any interest in bringing it to market. It doesn’t even need to relate to their core business. Just cause they filed a patent, does not mean they spent any time determining if it was a good idea. Someday one of these crazy patents might prove valuable so they want as many as they can.
Yeah, and some countries (like the US) are all about first-to-file, which means that even if someone thought of something first (with documentation to prove it), if a second party files for a patent first, they’ll get it. So it’s better to file and not use it than to hold onto it.
This is a fantastic idea. If they get it working reliably and it can tow 12k , the 1/2 ton pickup market is in for a rude awakening.
Their market is not people who tow stuff.
🤷♂️ their loss
I like that we’ve collectively agreed on the idea that Tesla’s driving AI will detect and target children.
Not most children, but if a rich shareholder needs a transplant, the car has a database of matching people who are organ donors or who’s parents believe in organ donation and will make subtle attempts to accidentally run them over. (A joke but fuck it maybe not at this point)
This is the worst timeline.
Eh, medium worst. There’s still pretense here.
I fail to see the usecase in “hitchless towing”. Anyone any idea?
I agree. Changing the oil through wi-fi on the other hand, that sounds neat
The only benefit of the tech required I can imagine would be to allow the computer to reverse the controls of the trailer when reversing the car (like video game flight sticks can) so that the human doesn’t have to process reversing their trailer any differently than they normally in the vehicle.
It would also eliminate the hitch from the vehicle, so there would be no vehicle stress from towing.
This could all be done and still have a physical connection to the truck as a failsafe.
The other thing that springs to mind is you could use a little commuter car with this, so you don’t have to drive a big F350 all the time just because you tow sometimes.
Why this is better than having a truck and a small car, and only using the truck when you need it, I don’t know.
I would like it if everything I did went without a hitch.
🥁
If the towed vehicle moves on its own power, you need less force from the towing car.
Yes, removing the need to buy a huge truck because you tow an RV a few times a year.
This also just seems to be a stepping stone technology for semi truck caravans as well. I can see a scenario with a ‘pilot truck’ that has a few people in it guiding a 20 + long caravan of trailers. Allows for semi autonomous behavior while still having people there to address the occasional problems.
Truck trains already exist though. How does this improve anything?
Less drivers, better control, etc. Pulling multiple trailers is incredibly demanding for the driver and the rig and is limited to a few trailers.
Caravanning multiple rigs means drivers or driver pairs for every rig, meaning 20 trucks potentially need 40 drivers.
Simple and dynamic hitching means faster turnarounds when loading and unloading
There are tons of things that technology like this can improve.
But then you need the giant engine in the RV. Just get an RV that you can drive, and tow a small car instead?
Ok replace rv with literally anything else, boat, parade float, motorcycle trailer, car trailer, etc.
Almost every single thing anyone buys in their entire life is on a truck at one point.
This could potentially revolutionize the chase for an EV semi
deleted by creator
Once again, we’ve invented the train.
Can a train split of to 20 different last mile delivery locations that change depending on the day and dynamically add and remove cars throughout transit?
Do you really think that freight is the end all be all for logistics for a country as diverse as the us for example?
People like them are utterly convinced they’re a genius that has figured it all out, and they can’t be told otherwise.
Same energy as conspiracy theorists.
I guess if you have a sedan or small car that doesn’t have a hitch? But if you have a trailer you probably have a vehicle to tow it.
This has some real verification can vibes.
deleted by creator
Jam the wifi signal
People use “WiFi” as a generic term for wireless protocols all the time, this almost certainly doesn’t use actual WiFi.
Eh, even If it does, it shouldn’t be a problem. Relying on a wireless link that could fail due to interference or jamming for actual control would be Musk-level insane.
The hitchbot would need to be capable of visually following the lead vehicle, possibly using something like a big QR code for identification and tracking.
The wireless link could be for telemetry like range and non-critical controls like “stay here” and “start following”.
If the link fails, you get a big warning to stop ASAP but the bot keeps following.
So… Ethernet?
Yeah it would probably use IR
It’s probably on Bluetooth
Maybe, maybe not
Fascinating.
I’ll take 'solutions for problems that don’t exist ’ for $500, Alex.
Ok…from where?
Owning an EV that can’t tow for any great distance is very much a problem that exists.
That’s not a problem that a small machine like this will fix though. The problem with EVs towing isn’t that they don’t have enough power to tow, it’s that the energy consumption goes up significantly due to changes in aerodynamics and the loss of regen braking. Petrol and diesel cars have the same problem, but can refuel quickly. EVs can’t.
Now imagine an autonomous trailer drone behind your EV. It’s most likely going to be electric, as most new automotive things are going to be electric by now. Then there are two options:
- You end up with a small thing that can’t go very far due to limited battery capacity.
- You end up with a gigantic machine that can go pretty far, but that’s in no way cheap or easy to store.
In the first case you might as well use your own EV to tow. In the second case you might as well just rent or buy a vehicle meant for towing. I don’t see how the economics of it are going to make sense.
Why do so many people think renting a vehicle when you already own one is cost effective, or a reasonable thing to do? Especially if you won’t be using it much once you arrive at your destination.
Whereas the tow bot can be put to work while you’re on holiday, and you still have transport.
I don’t buy a U-Haul truck just for the occasion that I’m moving, am I?
In a less snarky response, in case you can downscale your primary car to be more efficient and less costly, you can save significant amounts of money. In my country, weight, size, type of drivetrain and the sticker price all determine the amount of tax you pay on the vehicle. Getting a small, light vehicle instead of a big one you need for towing can definitely make sense financially, even if you are going to tow a caravan once a year and therefore have to rent a car to do so. Of course the individual circumstances really change a lot and in general people don’t do this due to convenience or the simple fact that they do this more often.
But you also missed the point of my reply. The point is that these tow bots will essentially be a second vehicle on their own. It will be expensive to buy one, it will be expensive to rent one and it will be expensive to own one. It won’t make sense as a product, even if you can still use your car when you arrive at your destination. The economics won’t work out, I’m pretty sure of that.
Are you suggesting that the tow bot takes your camper to the site and then leaves? It’s like a municipal resource?
More like an Uber, but you get the idea.
Why do so many people think renting a vehicle when you already own one is cost effective, or a reasonable thing to do?
The 5 year cost of a fairly base 2020 F150 is ~49k according to Kelly blue book - that’s fuel, maintainence, depreciation, loan interest, etc. The 5 year cost of either a 2020 Civic or a 2020 Chevy Bolt is $37k.
$12k / 5 years = $2,400/year. If you’d spend less than that a year, you’d be better off renting a truck when you need it and driving a cheaper vehicle daily.
Do you not value your time at all, in this scenario? Renting a vehicle every time you need a truck is a massive time sink.
Think of how much extra you’d pay for a rental service that dropped the truck off at your house, picked it up, and handled all the annoying things like filling the car up or cleaning it out.
Then, just add that into your calculations. That number is going to depend on how far you live from rental places and how much you value your time. Ballpark it.
You are completely out to lunch, my friend.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Aero is very much fixable on these things. Sure you are not going to get zero losses but you can 100% get better than the 2 to 1 loss I get when I tow my caravan with my EV currently.
I don’t lose regen on mine when towing, where you getting that from? I cant use one pedal, but that uses the brakes so I don’t use that mode very often.
The good old airstream caravans despite being massively fat for their size actually get better miles per kwh and they aren’t even modelled to modern aero standards.
The other problem are caravans, particularly American caravans, are massively fat. A lot of US caravans aren’t actually towable within recommended limits by European cars.
The right answer is to rent a truck. If someone has trailer/boat money, they absolutely can afford a rental for an excursion.
Sadly, until we see EVs that can compete toe-to-toe with vehicles that can haul stuff, gas-burning trucks are going to be with us a while. Shifting from an ownership to rental economy for such things would still be a substantial reduction in emissions.
If you want to move logistics to electric, this technology matters.
This is how they compete.
You, with your greasy hair, and Dago mustache…
I mean, all you need to steal a trailer today is a pair of bolt cutters, so it’s not really less secure than that.
It’s a bit harder to use those bolt cutters while the vehicles are moving though
Skill issue
It’s like…people just think of the worst fucking ideas that are possible to imagine…& other assholes KEEP GIVING THEM MONEY for the worst ideas possible. Is this real life?
bus enter the chat
“hey guys, I know yall hate me because poor people can use me but it seems like this whole self driving car thing isn’t working out because it requires an absurd amount of new technology to work perfectly… you know if you just put a moderate amount of money into me I could solve most mass transit problems right?”
mob of angry suburban karens swarm the bus, light it on fire and tip it over
Its not about solving problems. Its about using existing problems to make money without solving them.
deleted by creator
My car goes from where I am, to where I want to be, when I want to go there, regardless of time or location.
Buses will never come close to this level of convenience.
My car goes from where I am, to where I want to be, when I want to go there, regardless of time or location.
Hahahaha absolutely not… well maybe in your fast and furious fantasy it does, in the real world everyone else has cars and wants to get places too so you end up in huge amounts of traffic going anywhere. Anywhere worth going becomes inundated with traffic to the point that it massively decreases people’s quality of life, anywhere with enough car infrastructure to actually handle the amount of cars on the road these days is fundamentally ruined by said infrastructure (8 lane highways, massive suburban sprawl with no density, culture or thought in general to pedestrians) and not worth going to. Cars make cities extremely loud (they are by far the biggest sources of the noise you stereotypically associate with cities), unsafe, difficult to navigate and destroy air quality all while taking up the vast majority of space on a street (and making the remaining space miserable to exist as a pedestrian in).
In places that have good mass transit people literally live a more vibrant existence with a higher quality of life than you because the design of the spaces they inhabit doesn’t prioritize cars over humans.
And before someone says “I live in the middle of nowhere South Dakota mass transit will never work”, good for you, the overwhelming majority of USians live in places NOT like where you live in the US. Keep driving your car, this isn’t a discussion about you. For the rest of us living in population centers, cars and especially self driving cars are just sad misguided obsessions with trying to solve a problem by doubling down on doing the very thing that causes the problem.
Tl:DR
Yes. See “Fyre Festival” for more examples.
Jeff is watching chaos ensure on the highway. 3 seconds have passed since he turned on his long-range WiFi Jammer.
Just have three jacked trailers orbiting you like koopa shells
Future is going to be thrilling
Guarantee asshole drivers will try to squeeze into the space between car and trailer.
Solution is that the trailer will tailgate you all the time. It’ll also flash its beams if you don’t go 10mph above the limit.
Because of the millisecond reaction time of the powerful processor, there is no way this could go wrong.
I drive trucks pulling a set of double-trailers for a living and people already try to merge between my trailers. like yeah, the gaps too small and there’s a converter dolly there already, but that doesn’t seem to stop them from trying
