To be honest, I think autistic people are normal and the neurotypicals have something wrong with them.
How do they subconsciously know all of these cultural and social norms that don’t need to be said? That’s some Children of the Corn shit if you ask me
It’s more that they expect their social needs to be recognzed and acknowledged without cues. We see it most among elites and positions of authority, such as US Senators and Representatives behaving like immature children, in contrast to conduct suitable for their office.
When MTG tweets racist dog whistles for likes, or Lindey Graham has a meltdown with a hot camera, it shows us they take their positions for granted. It shows they expect to be handled and accommodated and they don’t take their offices seriously.
Whereas we neurodivergents develop personal symptom management techniques (like stimming) in order to function and be of service to the community around us. This is how we cope so that we can do things and not freak others out.
Well, between two sides picking different ways to do eye contact and tone to use there’s no reason to call one way and one tone wrong and another correct. Same about wanting or not wanting to do anything. So the author of that list, if sincere, is not “allistic”, just assholeistic.
Also - I personally question someone’s authority only when it’s correct in the ongoing argument.
However, I usually ignore any authority I consider invalid. That’s not the same as “questioning”, as I’m not doing that demonstrably, that is, socially, just don’t let it in onto my personal territory, speaking figuratively. And thus is not someone else’s concern.
Stop with the Autistic Chauvinism smh
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I think they’re more venting about a double-standard than saying autistic people are better than neurotypical people.
In my experience, labeling a divergence is used medically to help deduce the type and amount of treatment (and how much money you can get for it) , and socially to just have a catch-all, casual way to tell peers about your divergence easy in within a minute instead of a whole convo about it. Folk without any divergence don’t need a label for those reasons, so it feels weird to me make one up that further specifies how ‘normal’ or ‘without diagnoses’ someone is. Most folk with a neuro-divergent diagnosis also don’t list all the diagnoses they don’t have, not because they like to be disrespectful but because thats how you use words in a conversation, you try and be a bit concise and efficient while getting your message across. Considering that, it feels pointless to use a word like allistic, pretty much like using the word neuro-typical conditioning, what does that even mean? living life among undiagnosed functional peers? sheesh, how do you tell everyone you’re uncomfortable with your diagnosis without telling you’re uncomfortable with your diagnosis…
I understand what you are saying, but the entire point is underscoring the fact that we may be different but we’re not abnormal. Therefore I don’t call NTs “normal”.
It may seem like a minor thing to get hung up on, but it’s the essence of disability advocacy. We are normal. We are part of society. We deserve to be included.
I just think that that difference is only really relevant (normal/abnormal differenent/not different) when you are not comfortable with the label, or have extra feelings that somehow everyone that uses this label (autism), that is taken 1:1 from the medical world, uses it with some extra derogatory meaning. Seems more like a low self-esteem issue than a non-inclusive issue. Im happy you tried to engage, I think I understand your point and understand that we are in disagreement.
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Stop saying allistic, it’s really silly.
Also who the fuck is calling autistic people too sensitive? This image is like victim fetishizing.
I don’t know about all autistic people, but over 75% of the people I’ve had a considerable relationship with have called me too sensitive at some point. It’s one of the hallmarks of being me: waiting for the moment someone calls me too sensitive. The other is being called an asshole because I apparently made some implication I was completely unaware of.
Same. This is exactly what happens to me. Along with letting someone know at the beginning of a friendship that “hey sometimes people perceive me as an asshole or overly sensitive” and getting “oh I don’t think you seem like that at all” only for them to tell me I’m an asshole or sensitive months later… and I don’t feel like I’ve changed how I act at all in that time
First time ive heard it. I genuinely dont mind it. Its a bit odd but its fun.
Is it pronounced or-listic or al-istic?
I imagine that depends on your accent.
Also how are any of these things autistic traits? I’m sitting here chewing my tongue raw for the last 5 years and haven’t gone outside since, have no interest in socialization and have misphonia yet watch asmr. I’m not autistic.
How do you know you’re not autistic vs undiagnosed vs misdiagnosed vs the definition of autistic is too vague?
Who the fuck cares? Are you really that fragile?
you’re entirely right. allistic is silly. i think it’s slightly worse than silly though. i have two takes on this.
my first take is that you shouldn’t slur people.
my second is that if you’re gonna slur someone anyway, don’t be a chicken; just slur them. hiding behind “allistic” is a little bit like hiding behind “youths”, or “fruity”, or “welfare scroungers”, or “special”, or when people do that thing where they go “…she… oh sorry i mean he” (and vice-versa). it’s either a dogwhistle, or dogwhislte-adjacent. we all know what the speaker is implying when they uses these terms. you’re just slurring someone without the confidence necessary to do so.
this is why i unironically use normie (on the internet). sometimes i want to be rude about it, y’know? am in the wrong to slur like this? yes, absolutely. whilst i might use normie in the context of venting, it still doesn’t make it right. but at least i’m not being a coward about my position by hiding behind “allistic”
sometimes, especially when i’m chatting amongst autistics, it’s easier to casually write “when normies do x it upsets me, how about you?” instead of writing formal prose like “Oh I must say! These dastardly Neurotypicals have a particular behaviour pattern that troubles my mind… Do tell me how you bear the burden of such travesties.”.
doing the formal thing is tiring, and sometimes i don’t want to be the better person. 😎👍
So if that’s a thing, do neurotypicals have allism?
Neurotypical is honestly a better word
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100% it’s just an attempt to pathologize being “normal”, the same way some people use “neurodivergent” to mean that suffering from autism, ADHD, or other whatever is just a difference of opinion rather than a life-altering condition.
Talk about projection, holy shit.
Neurotypical means they have 0 mental conditions/disorders, allistic just means not autistic
Wouldn’t it be aautistic or non-autistic anyway?
Maybe anautistic because autistic starts with a vowel. Or using the same logic with abnormal, we could say abautistic.
Normies.
Typical allist.
aka typical neurotypical lol
imagine an atypical neurotypical
Allistic and neueotypical don’t mean the same. You can be allistic and still be neurodivergent.
I agree. My comment was more a humorous play with words trying to be paradoxical.
ah yes because my teenage neighbor is going to be very angry at me if I don’t follow traditions
Just the other day I had a teenage neighbor try to lecture me on masculinity because he didn’t approve of how long my hair was. I just said, “OK boomer,” because people have been giving long-haired men shit since the 1960s. I’ve been catching shit about it since I started wearing mine long in the 1990s after getting into heavy metal.
Do you live near the Gaza strip?
Most of the things in the list above are just circumstances where misunderstandings arise and it’s not uncommon for autistic self-care (like withdrawing, not paying attention, etc) to be mistaken for disrespect.
When I was a kid, these misunderstandings sometimes led to me getting beat up. Now that I’m a larger-than-average adult man, the bullying and schoolyard nonsense doesn’t happen but the misunderstandings and ensuing anger can take the form of grievances that have a way of turning into career-limiting drama. It’ still bullying, it’s just done the way adults bully.
These are all deeply frustrating, circumstantially stupid, and they all arise from an ignorant mistake in which me being inattentive or low on social energy or just having a hard time turns into them ‘feeling disrespected’.
It can be exhausting when people take offense when none was honestly on offer- and the resulting dominance nonsense that sometimes ensues when they’re petty about it has me a little convinced that too many adult people out there really don’t distinguish between respect and submission to their weird dominance games
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Image Transcription: Tumblr
lifeinautismworld
“Autistic people are too sensitive.”
Meanwhile, here’s a list of things that offend allistic people.
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not making eye contact
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wanting to be left alone
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not wanting to take part in a conversation
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using the wrong tone
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showing the wrong amount of excitement
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pointing instead of using words
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not wanting to be touched
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not wanting to eat certain foods
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wearing earplugs around other people
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stimming in a way that does not affect anyone else
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not following traditions
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questioning their authority
Good human
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I can’t be the only one tired of the whole, “neurodivergent” crap.
I have ADHD, it’s a disability. I’m not **special**, I’m just fucking broken. Sure, it’s a more depressing take, but it’s more realistic.
Hey. Pretty sure I have undiagnosed ADHD (literally sitting in waiting room to talk to a therapist as I write this), and I feel like there’s a bit more than just being broken. We’re only “broken” because we don’t conform to the currently agreed upon norms. The world isn’t designed for us. And the quicker we can realize that and make personal and societal adaptations to make these “breaks” more standard, well, we’ll all be better off.
How’d the appointment go?
Went well, mostly intake stuff. Got another in 2 weeks .
Hello, random Lemmitor! Have you downvoted the comment from Ookami38 because you feel it isn’t true? You know nothing about the life experience of the user who wrote it, so you’re using your limited, finite knowledge to invalidate someone else’s perspective. Before you jump into concluding that people who use the term neurodivergency to refer to themselves to cope, have you stopped to consider if your irrational rejection of the possibility that a neurodivergent person feeling fine about their condition or who they are is not your own mechanism to cope?
Dude, most of the comments are trying to be supportive of this guy. I’m pretty sure we’ve all felt broken when we were diagnosed. I thought I was unlovable and would never have friendships or a partner, and eight years later I just celebrated my five year anniversary. Shit gets better, but not if you stay on the cycle of thinking you’re just broken and it will always stay like that. Whether you want to believe that or not, that’s your prerogative.
I would like to clarify, that despite feeling broken, I do see the hope in medication, knowledge and understanding, and coping mechanisms. Not to mention a loving and supporting wife, who also has her own issues… but we work out to about 1.5 fully functioning adults together, so that’s nice.
Viewing ADHD and other disorders purely by the social model, at least as I hear many talk about it, completely disregards any need for medication and accommodation, and just puts the emphasis on society to change. And I think that’s just wrong, like, I understand the idea of the social model, but people take it too far. Use it as an aspirational guide to a better society, don’t dismiss the aides that help people function in today’s society because you feel they shouldnt be needed in the first place.
I was complaining about the downvotes that Ookami38’s comment received. Perhaps you misunderstood me?
Sorry, the comment said “have you down voted the comment above” and I thought you were referring to him being non understanding of the original root commentor. My bad.
No worries. I guess it wasn’t clear enough, so I edited my comment. Have a good day.
To be fair I was also confused, but I didn’t realize my post had apparently gotten downvoted at the start. All good.
Ah cool, this post answers my question above lol. Thanks for the support.
I… Why am I called out in that post? Like legit confused, I’ve been disconnected since I posted it so was I like, massively downvoted or something? Regardless yeah, I agree with what youre saying, for the most part.
My issue is how some people put so much emphasis on societal changes and ideas like “I’m not broken, society is”. Then they just live without any personal adaptations (medications, coping mechanisms, etc) bc “I’m not broken”. Worse, some look down at those who do take medications and try to adapt to the realities of our current society.
You can take some personal responsibility while also acknowledging that at least the majority of the reason this is even an issue is due to external things, i.e. societal expectations.
Personally I find this form of thinking far more dangerous: I come from a country in which being “mentally disabled” would literally mean me being unable to function in polite society, and being a “retard” is something pretty common, even with adults. The fact I was undiagnosed autistic until I left saved me. Sure you don’t function like everyone else, and yeah, it’s hard - trust me -, but to say you’re broken is basically undermining everyone else that has the same condition as you.
I can see how that can be true in your circumstances. But, in a society where resources are available to you, the social model often leads people to turn down medications and accommodations, because the need and use of them seems unfair. (General “you” use ahead) And that only makes your life worse, given that you don’t live in that ideal society you built in your head.
First off those people don’t actually understand the social model of disability. The whole point is society makes it harder to get along because of disability or difference and the lack of acceptance and accomodation. If that same society offers aid you should generally take it. At least that’s my understanding.
You are also starting with the assumption that there is actually help for adults with disabilities like autism and ADHD. The truth is there isn’t that help available in many societies. Calling yourself “broken” isn’t going to change that fact.
anyone who is willing to seek help has to pay the consequences
This. It’s not a pity party, but it is a justification for medication, and for giving a little bit of understanding.
I really relate to your comment, and one of the most rage inducing experiences I’ve ever had was someone lecturing me on how I shouldn’t call myself disabled, and then they badly explained the social model of disability to me.
However, I also find neurodivergent a useful term because I think that what we understand as disability is limited by our current world view. An example that feels analogous to me is how colonialist empires dismissed the art, culture and knowledge of indigenous peoples because they projected their preconceived values onto them.
I think that there’s a lot we don’t understand about autism, and how heavily normative society is holds us back. There are things that I am great at that feel inextricably linked to my autism. That doesn’t negate all the difficulties I also experience, but the word “neurodivergent” and the conversations that have developed around it feel it carves out space where I can lean into my autistic traits in situations where they’re strengths without having to be “super-autistic”; but also I can struggle in ways that neurotypical people can’t fathom, and it isn’t viewed as “negating” my strengths.
A large part of this is because the first chunk of my adult life, I broke myself by trying to act overly neurotypical, and like many autistics, I found that masking to this degree was unsustainable. Now, I’m much closer to a balance where I can pick my battles and not force myself to be something I’m not - like having tinted glasses for the office instead of expecting myself to somehow cope with my light hypersensitivity. In many ways, it feels like a different mode of being altogether - “wellness” for me looks different to “wellness” to a neurotypical, and I’d wager that “wellness” for you and other people in this thread would look closer to my version than the neurotypical version.
That being said, I agree that the way that people talk about stuff like ADHD and autism feels icky as hell. Personally, I find it more depressing to pretend that I’m not disabled, because actually, ignorance isn’t bliss when I can’t run from my reality. Sometimes things just suck, and they’re hard, and pretending otherwise makes it harder to cope with because it’s implicitly saying “I’m lying to myself because the truth is untenable”.
Thanks, yeah, you did a great job of putting it more eloquently than I had. 100% agree.
Neurodivergent is a middle ground. Our wiring is abnormal in some (or many) ways.
We are broken in the same way a tank is a really shitty car. If all you do is drive the roads, it will seem that way. However, it can go places that a car simply can’t. Critically, this doesn’t make it any less shitty on the roads. Nore let you suddenly become a car. You’re a tank, and stuck as one.
This is different to being broken however. We are forced to adapt to our unusual brain wiring. Some people unfortunately can’t. Others can mask, but find it exhausting.
I’m personally reasonably lucky. I have ADHD and autism. My life was pretty shitty till I learnt not to follow the expectations of others. I now have a family, an interesting job, and hobbies I enjoy. My life is still far from perfect, but it’s not broken, it just felt that way.
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Just because something is a disability doesn’t mean you can’t call it neurodivergent. It’s just a broader term that means that you’re different.
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ADHD isn’t a disability for everyone. Plenty of people function fine with it.
If you function fine, it’s literally not ADHD. “Disorder starts at impairment”
You give too much credit to psychiatric ideas. Someone can be different from the norm in ways that constitute neurodivergence and be oppressed because of them without being disabled necessarily. Lots of people are only considered disabled because society wasn’t designed for them.
Disorder ~= disability, maybe “function” wasn’t the right word on it’s own. Function enough that it’s not a disability, but still a disorder.
Just to be clear, something is called a disorder when it affects your ability to do everyday things.
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🤷 It’s about the social model of disability. It’s certainly incomplete, but it’s not wrong.
I’m just fucking broken.
that is literally every human on this planet. just because someone doesn’t have a mental divergence from perceived norm doesn’t mean they aren’t broken.
I disagree, we’re all different, but “disorder starts at impairment” and impairments come in various degrees.
To think of it this way, seems to say that “we all struggle” and the very next thought for many would be “why do you need and get medication/accommodation?” Or maybe the inverse “why don’t I get…?”
I guess there’s an argument to be had there, especially with the second form of the question.
A bit of an asshole, medication Bit boring, medication Don’t run fast, prosthetic Kinda ugly, surgery Short, surgery
just because someone doesn’t have a mental divergence from perceived norm doesn’t mean they aren’t broken.
Same with me, but I don’t have ADHD but depression. I know I’m not normal and it’s not okay to be like me, guess what, telling me that in fact is ok to be a mental fucking mess doesn’t make it better.
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I’ve been trying that maintain eye contact thing, how to they do that? Doesn’t’t the constant screaming in their heads hurt them?
I think maybe they don’t have the screaming <.< NTs are weird.
As an allistic person, I don’t get any screams in my head when I make eye contact and may not understand what you’re referring to. Intense awkwardness?
Prolomged eye contacts may make some allistic people feel awkward, but generally it’s a positive experience of nonverbal communication.
Are you saying making eye contact while talking makes you feel good?
From another autistic person, it really varies from person to person. I despise staring intensely at strangers, but when it comes to my partner, I adore it. It probably has to do more with the level of trust than inherently not being able to look at someone in the eyes, but it might just be a me thing.
Yes, for as long as it’s not an angry or otherwise negative look.
That is wild! I’m eye contact neutral - it doesn’t affect me at all, save with my partner where it IS enjoyable, so I had to learn not to stare people down. I never imagined people enjoyed it with other people! Thanks for blowing my mind.
You’ve probably heard this already but, in case you haven’t, try watching their eyebrows or right above them instead. It’s a lot less awkward for some people for reasons I don’t completely understand.
Remember to look away for a moment every ten seconds or so unless you’re trying to seduce or intimidate them! It becomes a routine after awhile. Also, humans are really weird.
I do 5 on, 2 off for eye contact timing. It seems to work pretty well in terms of passing as nt and focusing on the task of timing it reduces the discomfort of eye contact in the first place for me
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Nah, it’s significantly harder to hear someone f2f if their face isn’t pointed towards yours. It’s also hard to keep track of where they are if they’re behind you, which is why people usually have the instinct to turn around whenever a sound source pans left to right behind them or gets closer. Evolutionary advantage
Omg, never heard that before, thank you.
If the term “allistic” offends you: grow up, it’s a new word. Is learning a new word scary? Cis isn’t offensive. Allistic isn’t offensive. If you become insecure because a previously unnamed characteristic or condition or yours suddenly receives a name that doesn’t have implicit negative connotations, you should go work on whatever problem you have.
Holy shit this thread is cruel. I scrolled for way too long and started thinking I was pages deep into some general-interest place on Reddit. Nope, it’s c/Autism. Kinda the last place I’d expect to be okay with piles of hateful NTs coming in to point and laugh and talk trash at us.
Also, very agree regarding the terminology-whining. Kinda hard to believe every term non-minority sorts find out about gets screamed about, claiming it’s a slur. Equality feeling like oppression, I guess. Only “those people” get words; everyone else is just “normal.” Grr.
J dont habe anything against the termb and ive never Seen anyone bitch about it to me it seems like you are just looking for an argument
Look at this thread then
Litterally idied and seither my ban list Blocks all the hatte posting vor there just isn’t any
If the term “allistic” offends you: grow up, it’s a new word. Is learning a new word scary?
I have no particular opinion on the term “allistic,” but what happened to the maxime that each group should get the final say on the terminology applied to that specific group?
Now we’re saying to a specific group “hey, from now on we’ll call you all this new term and you all can just shut up and deal with it, because you don’t get a say?”
Seems like contradicting messages.
Allistics wouldn’t have come up with a term to categorize themselves, because they already see themselves as “the normal” that doesn’t need to be categorized. Save that, I’m not against them choosing a different word - but it would still be chosen by one or a few of them for an unchoosing vast majority.
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Check the rest of the comments section.
Exactly like the word ‘cis’ and transphobes, people that think ‘allistic’ is offensive probably use autistic as a slur.
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Evidently, this is a divisive and emotional topic. Still, we’re happy that we are talking about it because it’s certainly important to us in the community. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be so heated about it. At the same time, we’d like to keep the discussion respectful. It’s completely fine to express your opinions as long as they aren’t explicitly violating any of the rules, especially promoting hate. It’s respectful and effective to disagree with someone over a passionate topic without calling them offensive names. There is no need to personally attack anyone or a group, and we do not want to maintain a space that is used for creating hateful division.
Remember, we’re here to discuss all matters related to autism, have a place where we can freely be autistic without having to mask, and ultimately create a community. It’s understandable to get heated over topics, but try to remember that you’re responding to another person that may feel emotional about the matter as well.
In other words, please practice human decency.
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not wanting to be touched
That was a big one that contributed to my divorce. Even after decades and with the person who was supposed to be my closest relationship, and even after explaining a million times that the worse my autoimmune illness got, the less I wanted to be touched, it was a massive problem.
I still don’t get it, because I’ve never once thought someone else not wanting me to touch them impacted me in any way. I also never feel the need to touch other people. I guess that’s weird.
Touch is a form of intimacy, one your partner has been severely deprived of. As a heavily tactile person, partner that doesn’t want to be touched would be a massive showstopper for me.
Sad it turned out this way, but great if you’ll find a partner that respects this boundaries more, or, better yet, doesn’t want to touch you either.
There’s a huge difference between “someone else” and your life partner.
