ah yes because my teenage neighbor is going to be very angry at me if I don’t follow traditions
Do you live near the Gaza strip?
Just the other day I had a teenage neighbor try to lecture me on masculinity because he didn’t approve of how long my hair was. I just said, “OK boomer,” because people have been giving long-haired men shit since the 1960s. I’ve been catching shit about it since I started wearing mine long in the 1990s after getting into heavy metal.
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In my experience, labeling a divergence is used medically to help deduce the type and amount of treatment (and how much money you can get for it) , and socially to just have a catch-all, casual way to tell peers about your divergence easy in within a minute instead of a whole convo about it. Folk without any divergence don’t need a label for those reasons, so it feels weird to me make one up that further specifies how ‘normal’ or ‘without diagnoses’ someone is. Most folk with a neuro-divergent diagnosis also don’t list all the diagnoses they don’t have, not because they like to be disrespectful but because thats how you use words in a conversation, you try and be a bit concise and efficient while getting your message across. Considering that, it feels pointless to use a word like allistic, pretty much like using the word neuro-typical conditioning, what does that even mean? living life among undiagnosed functional peers? sheesh, how do you tell everyone you’re uncomfortable with your diagnosis without telling you’re uncomfortable with your diagnosis…
I understand what you are saying, but the entire point is underscoring the fact that we may be different but we’re not abnormal. Therefore I don’t call NTs “normal”.
It may seem like a minor thing to get hung up on, but it’s the essence of disability advocacy. We are normal. We are part of society. We deserve to be included.
I just think that that difference is only really relevant (normal/abnormal differenent/not different) when you are not comfortable with the label, or have extra feelings that somehow everyone that uses this label (autism), that is taken 1:1 from the medical world, uses it with some extra derogatory meaning. Seems more like a low self-esteem issue than a non-inclusive issue. Im happy you tried to engage, I think I understand your point and understand that we are in disagreement.
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I check too many boxes here
Same…
That’s because most of those are super normal things that almost nobody cares about.
I’m offended that you think I don’t question authority.
I take the reason you say this is cause your not on the spectrum?
Most things neurodivergent are actually stuff thats normal and common. Like needing some alone time, but its the degree of intensity, persevering need for those things that make it fit outside the norm.
A fun fact, we have a lot of ties to the roots of the lgbt community. Something about not letting norms and tradition decide how you should think and act. To be different often isn’t a choice and the right for us to exist differently is a matter of survival.
If the term “allistic” offends you: grow up, it’s a new word. Is learning a new word scary? Cis isn’t offensive. Allistic isn’t offensive. If you become insecure because a previously unnamed characteristic or condition or yours suddenly receives a name that doesn’t have implicit negative connotations, you should go work on whatever problem you have.
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Check the rest of the comments section.
Holy shit this thread is cruel. I scrolled for way too long and started thinking I was pages deep into some general-interest place on Reddit. Nope, it’s c/Autism. Kinda the last place I’d expect to be okay with piles of hateful NTs coming in to point and laugh and talk trash at us.
Also, very agree regarding the terminology-whining. Kinda hard to believe every term non-minority sorts find out about gets screamed about, claiming it’s a slur. Equality feeling like oppression, I guess. Only “those people” get words; everyone else is just “normal.” Grr.
J dont habe anything against the termb and ive never Seen anyone bitch about it to me it seems like you are just looking for an argument
Look at this thread then
Litterally idied and seither my ban list Blocks all the hatte posting vor there just isn’t any
Exactly like the word ‘cis’ and transphobes, people that think ‘allistic’ is offensive probably use autistic as a slur.
If the term “allistic” offends you: grow up, it’s a new word. Is learning a new word scary?
I have no particular opinion on the term “allistic,” but what happened to the maxime that each group should get the final say on the terminology applied to that specific group?
Now we’re saying to a specific group “hey, from now on we’ll call you all this new term and you all can just shut up and deal with it, because you don’t get a say?”
Seems like contradicting messages.
Allistics wouldn’t have come up with a term to categorize themselves, because they already see themselves as “the normal” that doesn’t need to be categorized. Save that, I’m not against them choosing a different word - but it would still be chosen by one or a few of them for an unchoosing vast majority.
Well, between two sides picking different ways to do eye contact and tone to use there’s no reason to call one way and one tone wrong and another correct. Same about wanting or not wanting to do anything. So the author of that list, if sincere, is not “allistic”, just assholeistic.
Also - I personally question someone’s authority only when it’s correct in the ongoing argument.
However, I usually ignore any authority I consider invalid. That’s not the same as “questioning”, as I’m not doing that demonstrably, that is, socially, just don’t let it in onto my personal territory, speaking figuratively. And thus is not someone else’s concern.
Most of the things in the list above are just circumstances where misunderstandings arise and it’s not uncommon for autistic self-care (like withdrawing, not paying attention, etc) to be mistaken for disrespect.
When I was a kid, these misunderstandings sometimes led to me getting beat up. Now that I’m a larger-than-average adult man, the bullying and schoolyard nonsense doesn’t happen but the misunderstandings and ensuing anger can take the form of grievances that have a way of turning into career-limiting drama. It’ still bullying, it’s just done the way adults bully.
These are all deeply frustrating, circumstantially stupid, and they all arise from an ignorant mistake in which me being inattentive or low on social energy or just having a hard time turns into them ‘feeling disrespected’.
It can be exhausting when people take offense when none was honestly on offer- and the resulting dominance nonsense that sometimes ensues when they’re petty about it has me a little convinced that too many adult people out there really don’t distinguish between respect and submission to their weird dominance games
This kind of talk is counterproductive.
Humans are social creatures. There has almost always been some sort of social norm across all of history. Likewise, there has almost been judgement of people who break social norms.
People with Autism have, among other things, trouble following those social norms. Ultimately a lot of the things we do could be considered offensive. The important part is to increase awareness that Autism is a disability and to ask for tolerance.
Meanwhile a lot of ways that autistic people are sensitive in are pretty alien and jarring. There’s a lack of emotional regulation that often leads to disproportionate outbursts. There are sensory issues that can lead to relatively benign things causing said outbursts. There are a ton of things that are simply more disruptive than a neurotypical person getting miffed that someone doesn’t make eye contact.
The important part is to increase awareness that Autism is a disability and to ask for
toleranceunderstanding and accommodation.I try to help.
If we’re using the language of disability, ‘understanding and accommodation’ seems to afford its subjects a degree of dignity. We tend not to ask for ‘tolerance’ on behalf of the disabled, after all.
That’s fair.
I think it’s fine to acknowledge the unfortunate truth that autistic people have to live in a society designed around the needs of people who are unlike them in important ways. Saying so shouldn’t diminish their responsibility to try to function in society as best they can despite this challenge.
To an extent, it’s a matter of perspective. We can easily conceive of a society where the things that “normal” people do are considered alien and jarring. If they had to constantly suppress their fundamental nature the way autistic people do, they might not seem so natural and healthy.
Considering a shit ton of people took the pandemic as an excuse to avoid people including me is not actually that unusual. We only socialize for survival.
Meh, we have the dance club crowd and the sports fan crowd. I’m part of neither (and sports fans share too many similarities to fanatic religious militants for my tastes) but I understand them.
Introverts are underrepresented in society, but I think this is due to extroverts dominating politics and industrial upper management so polities tend to favor extroverted behaviors.
Also while extroverts enjoy social behavior, they do not enjoy toxic social interaction, as is typical in the workplace. No one wants to be micromanaged and bullied and humiliated by their bosses. I think this figures largely in the telecommuting conflict going on right now.
Humans are social creatures.
Are we really? It seems to me like even neurotypical people tend to self-isolate in rich societies if they’re prosperous enough to get away with it.
The important part is to increase awareness that Autism is a disability and to ask for tolerance.
First, I don’t feel disabled. The world just wasn’t made for people who think like I do any more than it was made for left-handed people (of whom I’m one). But maybe I just didn’t get hit that hard with the autism stick, so with a bit of effort I can fake being neurotypical long enough to hold down an office job.
Second, aren’t you sick of asking for tolerance? I certainly am. Maybe it’s time to stop asking. Nobody took gay liberation seriously until Stonewall, remember?
Neurotypicals don’t self isolate in prosperous communities they overwhelming interact with people just only other rich people. The rich as a general rule if thumb go to extremes to avoid interacting with people of a lower socioeconomic status why do you think first class and private planes are a thing?
Yes we do. I’m doing it, many coworkers are doing it. It’s great.
why do you think first class and private planes are a thing
Conspicuous consumption: if you’ve got it, flaunt it.
If you’ve really got it, you never ever flaunt it. That’s how you lose it
Well put. Ultimately this debate comes down to a desire to cover the world in leather rather then wear shoes.
Increased acceptance of autistic people almost universally a good thing (with very specific and few exceptions). The trouble is that the entire rest of the world can’t be psychologists who happen to be experts in understanding every condition.
I agree that people should educate themselves where possible. As much right as autistic adults have to be themselves, other people have the right to form opinions with regard to adherence to social norms.
The important part is to increase awareness that Autism is a disability and to ask for tolerance.
Or, you know, I can demand the reasonable accommodations that are my human right.
I’m sure that’ll go well.
It seemed like that commenter was saying “ask for tolerance for disproportionate outbursts.” It seems like you’re saying others accommodating your meltdowns is a human right. Is that what you’re saying?
No, don’t be silly. But an environment where I can do my job without exceeding my sensory tolerance certainly is my human right. If it can be attained with reasonable accommodations.
That’s not my opinion. That’s the law in most of the developed world.
As: Saying what you mean.
I don’t think they are all the same, and not all of them cause “offence”.
“using the wrong tone” is by definition wrong, so of course it will cause confusion and irritation.
Same with pointing instead of using your words, like how the fuck am I supposed to know what you mean by pointing lol
Kinda burying the lede here. They are all different forms of “questioning their authority”
I dont agree it’s about authority at all. This entire list is about showing disrespect for someone and expecting them to be OK with it.
To allistic people, everything on this list is insulting behavior that will offend them (except not wanting to eat certain foods).
This behavior will work fine with autistic people though. But you can’t expect it to work with allistic people.
Different brains equals different expectations of what is acceptable social behavior. That’s it.
people get right indignant when encountering someone else’s food choices.
i hear the difference between an allergy and an intolerance as if that changes the amount of suffering endured.
To allistic people, everything on this list is insulting behavior that will offend them (except not wanting to eat certain foods).
Yeah, people who are used to playing and winning dominance games tend to get upset when other people aren’t willing to play and have the temerity to show it. Tough shit. If I want somebody to dominate me, that’s my wife’s exclusive prerogative.
I don’t expect you to be OK with me refusing to knuckle under when you play dominance games with me. But your feelings are of no greater importance to me than mine are to you. You are my equal at best. Do not try my patience. It is not my greatest virtue.
Eh, these kind of people are always throwing tantrum no matter agreed or refused playing their dominance games, i personally try to avoid such people, filter out negativity and only keep positivity, also i relate strongly to your comment
I just told you it’s not about dominance or authority, but sure, you probably think it is, since your response is immature and ridiculous.
I just told you it’s not about dominance or authority, but sure, you probably think it is, since your response is immature and ridiculous.
Yes, I read your opinion. I don’t agree with it, and you’ve done nothing to persuade me that I should let your opinion overrule my judgment. Dismissing my response is “immature and ridiculous” doesn’t make your case more compelling.
He’s trying to play one of those dominance or authority games.
I’m really struggled with figuring out how anything on that list has anything to do with “dominance”.
Yeah well when “respect” means “micro managing myself to glorify someone else because they demand it”, then yeah. I’m disrespectful as fuck. Anyone who demands I show my belly so they can feel like they’re in charge can kindly go fuck themselves. They’re not in charge. Nobody gets that special pampering from me.
I’ve been trying that maintain eye contact thing, how to they do that? Doesn’t’t the constant screaming in their heads hurt them?
As an allistic person, I don’t get any screams in my head when I make eye contact and may not understand what you’re referring to. Intense awkwardness?
Prolomged eye contacts may make some allistic people feel awkward, but generally it’s a positive experience of nonverbal communication.
Are you saying making eye contact while talking makes you feel good?
Yes, for as long as it’s not an angry or otherwise negative look.
That is wild! I’m eye contact neutral - it doesn’t affect me at all, save with my partner where it IS enjoyable, so I had to learn not to stare people down. I never imagined people enjoyed it with other people! Thanks for blowing my mind.
From another autistic person, it really varies from person to person. I despise staring intensely at strangers, but when it comes to my partner, I adore it. It probably has to do more with the level of trust than inherently not being able to look at someone in the eyes, but it might just be a me thing.
I think maybe they don’t have the screaming <.< NTs are weird.
You’ve probably heard this already but, in case you haven’t, try watching their eyebrows or right above them instead. It’s a lot less awkward for some people for reasons I don’t completely understand.
Remember to look away for a moment every ten seconds or so unless you’re trying to seduce or intimidate them! It becomes a routine after awhile. Also, humans are really weird.
I do 5 on, 2 off for eye contact timing. It seems to work pretty well in terms of passing as nt and focusing on the task of timing it reduces the discomfort of eye contact in the first place for me
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Nah, it’s significantly harder to hear someone f2f if their face isn’t pointed towards yours. It’s also hard to keep track of where they are if they’re behind you, which is why people usually have the instinct to turn around whenever a sound source pans left to right behind them or gets closer. Evolutionary advantage
Omg, never heard that before, thank you.
Stop saying allistic, it’s really silly.
Also who the fuck is calling autistic people too sensitive? This image is like victim fetishizing.
I don’t know about all autistic people, but over 75% of the people I’ve had a considerable relationship with have called me too sensitive at some point. It’s one of the hallmarks of being me: waiting for the moment someone calls me too sensitive. The other is being called an asshole because I apparently made some implication I was completely unaware of.
Same. This is exactly what happens to me. Along with letting someone know at the beginning of a friendship that “hey sometimes people perceive me as an asshole or overly sensitive” and getting “oh I don’t think you seem like that at all” only for them to tell me I’m an asshole or sensitive months later… and I don’t feel like I’ve changed how I act at all in that time
Also how are any of these things autistic traits? I’m sitting here chewing my tongue raw for the last 5 years and haven’t gone outside since, have no interest in socialization and have misphonia yet watch asmr. I’m not autistic.
How do you know you’re not autistic vs undiagnosed vs misdiagnosed vs the definition of autistic is too vague?
Who the fuck cares? Are you really that fragile?
First time ive heard it. I genuinely dont mind it. Its a bit odd but its fun.
Is it pronounced or-listic or al-istic?
I imagine that depends on your accent.
you’re entirely right. allistic is silly. i think it’s slightly worse than silly though. i have two takes on this.
my first take is that you shouldn’t slur people.
my second is that if you’re gonna slur someone anyway, don’t be a chicken; just slur them. hiding behind “allistic” is a little bit like hiding behind “youths”, or “fruity”, or “welfare scroungers”, or “special”, or when people do that thing where they go “…she… oh sorry i mean he” (and vice-versa). it’s either a dogwhistle, or dogwhislte-adjacent. we all know what the speaker is implying when they uses these terms. you’re just slurring someone without the confidence necessary to do so.
this is why i unironically use normie (on the internet). sometimes i want to be rude about it, y’know? am in the wrong to slur like this? yes, absolutely. whilst i might use normie in the context of venting, it still doesn’t make it right. but at least i’m not being a coward about my position by hiding behind “allistic”
sometimes, especially when i’m chatting amongst autistics, it’s easier to casually write “when normies do x it upsets me, how about you?” instead of writing formal prose like “Oh I must say! These dastardly Neurotypicals have a particular behaviour pattern that troubles my mind… Do tell me how you bear the burden of such travesties.”.
doing the formal thing is tiring, and sometimes i don’t want to be the better person. 😎👍
Neurotypical is honestly a better word
Normies.
Neurotypical means they have 0 mental conditions/disorders, allistic just means not autistic
Wouldn’t it be aautistic or non-autistic anyway?
Maybe anautistic because autistic starts with a vowel. Or using the same logic with abnormal, we could say abautistic.
Typical allist.
aka typical neurotypical lol
imagine an atypical neurotypical
Allistic and neueotypical don’t mean the same. You can be allistic and still be neurodivergent.
I agree. My comment was more a humorous play with words trying to be paradoxical.
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100% it’s just an attempt to pathologize being “normal”, the same way some people use “neurodivergent” to mean that suffering from autism, ADHD, or other whatever is just a difference of opinion rather than a life-altering condition.
Talk about projection, holy shit.
So if that’s a thing, do neurotypicals have allism?
Why can’t we just be ourselves, without NTs imposing judgement on us? Sometimes I feel like I’m expected to act NT, when I feel like it shouldn’t be a big deal. It’s very frustrating for me. So what if I don’t know how to add to a conversation, or if I avoid eye contact, or if I don’t like people trying to make eye contact with me for too long? Can’t I just share that I’m autistic, and be given my own autonomy? I really don’t like when NT standards are imposed on me. It makes me angry.
99% nobody is judging you.
