My wife works in a restaurant, and the power-tripping manager has instituted a new policy where all shift changes must be approved by management. I think that is reasonable enough, but they’re also asking the originally-scheduled employee why they are switching shifts, then approving or denying based on the answer.
For example, her coworker (Tom) wanted Monday afternoon off, and Harry agreed to cover the shift. The manager asked Tom why he wanted Harry to work for him, and Tom said, “I have a softball game.” Manager denied the shift change because it was “unnecessary”.
Is this legal? I feel like if you’re able to find someone to cover your shift, you don’t owe management any explanation why you need the time off. How should my wife approach this situation? Colorado, USA BTW.
The answer is going to depend on Country, State (if in the US) and locality. For a US based answer, you can contact he US Department of Labor and ask them for a real answer (certainly better than you’d get asking people on the internet). You can also contact the Department of Labor for whatever State the work is performed in.
At a guess, it’s probably legal under certain circumstances. Knowing most small businesses, the policy is probably not that nuanced.
In Ontario that’s perfectly legal. It’s also legal for you to decline to answer that question.I worked in kitchens for about 15 years and came across that problem at about 1/3 of the places I worked. Not super uncommon, the industry is filled with flakes.
Keep in mind in most jurisdictions Restaurants get special labour rules.
“special labour rules”
Seems every industry has their own… I work in IT and we get shafted as well
It’s like a “special military operations”, in the workplace!
“Personal obligation.” Should be the only response anybody gives him going forward.
I’ll show you my medical record if you pay for it.
Could go into great detail about significant health issues, becoming more and more emotional as you go on, and tearfully asking “why would you make me talk about this? I wanted to keep this private! I haven’t even told my family yet!”.
Bad case of anal glaucoma. I just can’t see my ass going in to work today.
A+, just got to figure out how to work this into conversation without getting HR involved now.
Then use a more medical sounding term
I think my Rectal-Ocular Degeneration is flaring up.
And if the boss still refuses, have them put it in writting. So that you can slam them with the “Boss demanding medical information”
Exactly. I’m a manager and literally never ask the reason unless it’s longer than a week. They like to tell me anyway even though I’ve told them I don’t care.
Seriously don’t understand managers like this. Also a manager, qnd I’ll even find the coverage if someone needs a day off. I know how nerve wracking it is as an employee calling around asking someone to cover your shift, its a lot easier for me to send a mass text. Incidentally, the staff seem much more willing to pick up shifts this way.
I can’t imagine having a manager like in this post. I had to get a few hours coverage for my on call shift to pick my partner up from the hospital for an outpatient surgery. Manager didn’t ask why I needed coverage but it just happened to come up. They immediately offered to get my entire shift moved without me even asking.
Maybe they just really feel like they can open up to you, Dicksinabag.
I feel like I could open up to Discksinabag pretty easily
Open on up, bro. (But seriously, I believe in authenticity as a manager. I don’t hide anything from them unless I’m told explicitly not to share with them.)
I’d actually prefer it if they opened up to me.
Isn’t that called sounding?
I don’t know, that feels like a risk
Wait, are we all talking about docking now?
I thought we were talking about hamburgers and got hungry. I love dicksinabag
It’s legal but insane. Your wife should start looking for a new job.
Correct, non sick leave is usually considered discretionary time off; meaning, it’s at the discretion of the manager to approve it.
That said, this manager sounds like a nut job. It’s legal to be a hard ass, but people don’t have to remain working for you.
I see what you’re saying, but we’re not talking about requesting a paid personal day. We’re talking about having you’re shift covered by another person, and having that denied because management doesn’t like the reason you want the shift covered.
I’m not sure it would be legal if they were forced to reveal medical information.
That would be a violation, but it is perfectly m legal to ask if someone is going on generic “sick” or “medical” time off or leave. Every company I’ve ever worked for has had be declare my PTO as sick leave or discretionary time off. And the latter is what it means, it’s at the discretion of the manager to approve it.
Sorry but most restaurant work doesn’t come with paid time off or sick leave. You either work and get paid or don’t work and don’t get paid.
Sure, but that assumes this manager would be happy with generic “medical stuff” as an answer…
Worst comes to worst, they could ask for a doctor’s note. And doctors notes are always pretty generic and basically say “yup, they can’t work.” But if the manager does ask for Dr’s notes, they need to apply the policy equally to all employees.
It’s usually a HIPAA violation if an employer asks for specifics about a medical issue.
Source: I’m a people manager who has had to go through a bunch of trainings about these laws.
Christ are we going to be having “hippa”(sic) arguments again?
You can refuse to answer - I sure would. Or just say you have an appointment. Being asked is not illegal.
Then I assume the jerk will just deny your request.
Right, but if you’re request for denied for something medically necessary unless you revealed it, you went anyway (because it’s necessary), and then you got fired… That feels like it shouldn’t be legal (obviously that doesn’t mean that it isn’t).
It’s up to you to reveal it or not. It’s not a “request” if it can’t be denied.
People think hippa is magical medical privacy. It has fuck all to do with telling your manager anything. It only applies to medical professionals or those who may see your records as part of their job. If your manager also processes insurance claims, then it applies, otherwise it’s not different than telling a neighbor.
Always give your boss as little information as possible. They aren’t entitled to it and are much more likely to use it against you.
Yeah, I don’t know what Colorado’s laws are on this in general, but even if it’s technically legal it seems like a huge risk that someone is going to plausibly allege that given the specific facts denying them time off was race/religion/family status/… discrimination. It might be legal (don’t know), but it’s a stupid policy for a number of reasons.
“I’ve got a christening, communion, marvel movie, spaghetti dinner to attend. It’s religious.”
Or
“I’m re attaching my leg, keeps falling off. Medical things and getting old are hard, right?”
As a manager, I don’t give a flying fuck why my team wants to take time off. Wanna sit on your ass and play video games for a week straight, cool all good by me : just let me know the dates, check their PTO balance, and ensure it doesn’t conflict with key deliverables and if so either work out a plan for coverage or suggest they look for a different time to take off if possible
Sounds like you need to source some tips from
If we look at it from the management side, a person covering your shift means he/she will go overtime which means more cost for the restaurant. I don’t know how big or popular this place is but if one doesn’t like the way things are going, she should file a complaint with HR or maybe look for another job.
Overtime in the hospitality trade?
Where?
This is perfect for /c/Antiwork, do you mind if I cross post this?
It is legal, but this is going to kill the restaurant.
Well Colorado is an at will state so I would think it would be legal. Shitty but still legal.
Not illegal but dumb if it’s a power trip. If the shift is covered, then the business doesn’t suffer, but there may be other things at play. For example, the day and time of the shift. If it’s during a super busy day sad you may need extra coverage.
Now, there may be other things going on, like employees constantly changing shifts at will. When I owned a restaurant, I spent an awful amount of hours figuring out shifts that were equitable. As a manager if I want to have some certainty, the constant changes by employees whom only informed me they had negotiated behind the scenes, would feel disrespectful of my time and of the time of others.
This probably has nothing to do with your wife, but everything to do with that other dude. If I had known that he had a softball game coming up, or is in a league on Saturdays, I’d have been happy to work with him to figure out a shift change. Shit like that happens. But if this guy keeps bothering other employees to get them to cover for him constantly, that would also be disrespectful of their time. Even if they agree to do it.
In other words: If that guy thinks that his softball game is more valuable than your wife’s time with you or your family, then he should look for a job that suits his lifestyle.
If your wife, on the other hand, would come t me and tell me she needed the hours, I could work with her on that.
In the long run, I agree. A personal softball game by itself, is not reason enough to miss your shift. Just like shit happens, work also happens.
And just a no without an explanation is also not valid. A good manager lets people understand their decisions.
Interesting, I have had a nearly opposite experience in the past.
At one retail job I had, if you needed a shift off, you had to find someone else to agree to cover your shift. That was basically the whole process of getting out of a scheduled shift. Take a shift off, fine, but it was the responsibility of the worker who needed a shift covered to get that shift covered.
Meh, not going to argue but everything you are saying in your post…… it’s just wrong…. Incorrect.
At a restaurant there’s pretty much zero reason leave shouldn’t be approved with or without notice.
Why do you have sick time or vacation time if people can’t use it.
It’s none of you business why anyone needs to use their leave time, I get that that is difficult for you to understand…. But it’s none of your fucking business why anyone is using their leave time. Ever……
I think I would simply comply, maliciously.
What’s my reason? I’m going on a journey in alignment with my religion. Try telling me I can’t follow my religious beliefs on the record.
I work retail and have tuesdays off for my men’s group, which takes 7 hours out of my day once travel is taken into account.
A coworker advised me that if management ever asks about why I need tuesdays off, I should just say “It’s religious”.
I have a co-worker who says her reason for the time off request is always gynecology related. Bosses never ask questions.
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Yeah the policy OP described just creates a culture where people lie about why they need time off 😆
It’s not school - if someone agrees to cover the shift, just let em
I need a leave for my pap exam.
Denied.
Why?
You’re a man.
Gender discrimination reported to corporate headquarters.
“Good morning boss, I need two weeks off for gynecology-related activities”.
“I don’t want to know, Dave.”
It’s time to give up this dream, you never even went to med school
You could be having a baby, that falls into the scope.
Or trying to make one on the beach in Fiji with a partner or a local.
How about a partner and a local - Belts and Suspenders, and you only get one two-week shot at this.
Or spending the week in bed, flicking the bean.
Let me guess, you live in the U.S.
My suggestion, move away from that cesspool and towards more developed parts of the globe.
Because a server definitely has the resources to pick up and move internationally on a whim. 🙄
Well that went over your head.
I think getting actionable advice was the point of the thread.
Editorials are often seen as disrespectful and dont get the engagement you’d hope (this isn’t a news community).
One way you might resolve this is to get everybody talking about it without the boss there. I bet nobody likes the policy. Maybe everyone would agree to not give a reason, or to give the same reason that is an obvious lie?
Maybe if all the employees presented a united front. Like a sort of joint group of just the employees. Together in a union of sorts.
Maybe individually they do not have a lot of power, but together could be strong?
This idea probably wont stick in the states. The workers there arent very united.
Individually they are weak like a single twig, but bundled together they form a mighty removed.
Edit:
Aww, the text filter messed up the joke
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Everyone should always say ‘its because I’m on my period.’ Men and post menopausal women too. It could be great, if the first few times the younger women use the line it works. Then whenever someone who doesn’t have menses uses it, everyone unites together and puts a little bit of their labor to helping a coworker. It’d be nice if there was a name for something like that.
It’d be nice if there was a name for something like that.
Synced menstrual cycle?
