“We recognize that, in the next four years, our decision may cause us to have an even more difficult time. But we believe that this will give us a chance to recalibrate, and the Democrats will have to consider whether they want our votes or not.”
That’s gotta be one of the strangest reasonings I’ve heard in a while.
Islam empowering bad actors.
Absolutely iconic duo.Wow I wonder why they’re choosing this course of action with comments like this. Utterly surprising
Russian money hard at work.
FTA:
“a reflection of their outrage over President Biden’s handling of the Israel-Hamas war.”
If that’s legit their position, then they have no candidate in 2024. It’s not like they can vote for Trump.
And they clearly stated that they know trump would be worse short term, but they are hoping this puts long term pressure on democrats to represent their issues more.
This has never worked in reality though. Republicans will always pull the country to the right if they win.
That may be.
If Democrats need their votes, they’d best listen.
The DNC will ignore them, then blame someone else when they lose
If that’s legit their position, then they have no candidate in 2024
Yes. That’s literally their point.
Yeah that worked real well for the people that didn’t vote for Hillary because sanders that shafted by the DNC. DNC never learned their lesson and Trump winning again I doubt they will learn.
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I could be wrong but I don’t see that happening until the GOP shatters. I see Dems traditionally as a coalition of basically not GOP voters. Just using single voter issues for this example, Let’s say we had a viable pro choice and pro gun third party, how many people from the current 2 parties would that pull from. I would wager mostly from the dem side which means larger chance of GOP winning. Which is a risk DEMs won’t take and I feel the DNC know this.
I worked for that campaign during that election cycle. You would think that the DNC and coordinated campaigns would learn that not listening to voters hurts you. Shaming them didn’t work last time either. They didn’t fund outreach. They didn’t listen to organizers on the ground. They didn’t care.
You would think that the DNC and coordinated campaigns would learn that not listening to voters hurts you.
They would rather lose than listen to voters.
Muslim ideology doesn’t exactly fit with democracy so it makes sense for them to embrace radical extremism. Same goes for most religions.
Every election cycle it seems to happen. Republicans mostly put aside their individual beefs and vote against the same candidates. Meanwhile, everyone else slap fights and struggles to come to any consensus. Positive change can happen. Fuck me if we agree on what to tackle first. I’d be rather impressed if there wasn’t so much on the line.
Biden had two jobs:
- Prevent open war that brought in other countries
- Not signal his profound preference for Israel over Palestinians
I’m a middle aged white dude and it was transparent as hell. What are people sho share a religion, language, ethnicity or something else going to think? “He’ll fight for us?”
If we need to win, we can’t do it by acting entitled to votes or just dropping key electorates because… Dunno.
“Don’t talk about reducing tensions” was a bold move.
The actual idiots are the people calling them idiots. If the democratic party wants their votes then stop funding a genocide in Palestine. Neither party represents them or even tried to court them, so why should they vote for someone who only promises not to hurt them even more?
Americans are brainwashed by the two party system. It’s always been "vote for the lesser evil’. It will continue to be that way until you do something about it.
Dumbass tokens spending astroturfed money.
Most religious people are not good on this sort of reasoning.
Is Steve Bannon’s hand in this too?
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We hope that shooting ourselves in the foot today will allow us to run faster in the years to come…
Expecting either US political party to drop its support for Israel is a fool’s game.
Seriously these fucking morons are going to assist the guy who wants a “complete and total ban on Muslim entering our country…” because they don’t like Biden’s support for Israel? I understand this is a no win situation but given the choice who’s going to be better for Muslims domestically or abroad? Clearly the dem. And on that point I wonder if they think trump would have behaved any differently toward Israel? Spoiler alert.
They have a point though, neither d nor r is going to be “good” for Muslims or Palestinians, our track record sorta proves that out.
I see this kind of thinking often, with regards to young voters, black voters, blue collar workers, immigrants, women, etc.
‘We’ve checked with the experts and determined that they should be grateful! Why won’t they adjust their lived experience to match our policy platform!!’
It doesn’t matter whether you agree with them. They’re leveraging power. You are free to disregard them if you think your personal narratives are enough to keep you comfort after Trump wins.
If Biden and his supporters want to win, they need to stop arguing with their voters and start listening. It’s not that complicated.
I’ll be comfortable if Trump wins. I’m a cis white male who makes over $200k per year. Hell, I’ll probably get a fucking tax cut.
These idiots are going to be among the first and worst to get hurt.
I’ll vote to try to stop them from hurting themselves but there’s only so much I can do.
Democrats feel entitled to votes from their base are are offended at the idea they might have to earn their vote. They blackmail us with Republicans and victim blame when their bad electoral strategy fails them
This isn’t unique to Democrats, it’s a feature of the left in general. Democrats aren’t bending over backwards to get progressive votes, but progressives aren’t bending over backwards to get moderate votes either. If a Democrat loses, moderates blame Progressives for not showing up. If a progressive loses, progressives blame moderates and the establishment.
I mean how many progressives criticize Bernie’s electoral strategy instead of blaming the DNC? Bernie completely wrote off Florida and Cuban Americans instead of trying to win them over. He aimed for 40% of the vote in the primaries. And he relied on non voters to win.
Democrats and progressives BOTH prefer to bicker with each other and make no efforts to court each other’s base. They’d rather blame each other than critique their electoral strategy. And when fascists rise to power because of this bickering, both will blame each other again.
Bernie completely wrote off Florida and Cuban Americans instead of trying to win them over.
And just like that, candidates are expected to win votes.
This implies their voters are speaking in a unified voice. They’re not. Subsets are, closer to it, but overall, politics is about compromise and consensus.
If you want the power of dominion, go for a monarchy, and if you don’t want to compromise at all, go to war. When it comes time for peace again, it’ll be some manner of compromise.
This implies their voters are speaking in a unified voice. They’re not. Subsets are, closer to it, but overall, politics is about compromise and consensus.
“We decided you’re expendable. We still expect your solidarity.”
I tried asking that question on a post somewhere around here and they pretty much responded like I was the biggest moron who had to be spoken down to.
Because in bizarro world a ban is worse than ethnic cleansing.
Ban + more ethnic cleansing > no ban + less ethnic cleansing
It’s utterly disingenuous to suggest the two are mutually exclusive. The ethnic cleaning only intensifies under Trump, and the ban is in addition to that. Unless we’re in a bizarre world where Trump suddenly loves brown people and Palestinians.
Speculating while ignoring genocide. BlueMAGA is toxic as fuck
Gee I wonder why you guys have practically no meaningful political presence in reality. Maybe if you tell me more about how much I love genocide, I’ll see the purity in your idealistic views and decide to support your cause instead.
Of course, I could fire back that you want dead Palestinian babies since you refuse to go against the most deadly option – but that would be as utterly disingenuous as writing off all Biden supporters as genocide supporters.
The funniest thing about this comment is that it could be easily directed at you as well.
Biden allowing their death is the most deadly option. Do you people even hear yourself? I couldn’t give a fuck if you support us or not, which is preferred since liberals tend to co-opt movements and try to redirect the energy to neoliberalism.
Personally I think a Republican actively killing them would be the most deadly option. I’m curious though why you think Biden would result in more Palestinian deaths than any Republican candidate.
Seriously these fucking morons are going to assist the guy who wants a “complete and total ban on Muslim entering our country…” because they don’t like Biden’s support for Israel?
Maybe they figure that when Trump was supporting his Muslim ban, they had one major party on their side.
Instead of zero parties on their side and one party gloating that they have no choice.
Never mind a party which is more than happy to call them morons for feeling let down and wanting a candidate who actually stands up for them.
Wanting someone to stand up for you isn’t moronic.
What’s moronic is voting in such a way that elects the party FURTHEST from your ideal.
If the party needs their votes, it should act like it needs their votes.
They certainly know how to act like they need Republican votes.
Interesting. Now we have to stop people from punching themselves in the face? I tell you, you can’t fix stupid.
I tell you, you can’t fix stupid.
Then give up and lose. You’ll get to blame a minority for your problems, just like republicans.
Then again not like the “very shoot ourselves in the foot, but just little bit, instead of lot” on decades long repeat leads to anything good.
If ones vote is to be taken for granted, you have no power. Only way you can hold your own side accountable is by threatening to withhold the vote.
That is bargaining. Voting Democrat nomatter what and after that asking could they please do something, that is begging. Begging rarely works as well as bargaining.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Joys of two party system.
Most likely people just get apathy and instead of flipping to Trump, they simply stay home. Which is the other bargain. What you offer for me to bother to go from my home to the voting station in the first place.
That is their play “you can’t take us for granted anymore, we care about our vote and bargaining power on long term enough to suffer on short term to buy long term relevance”.
Whether it works is different matter. I don’t know, if democratic leadership has the where with all to take their left flank of voters as anything but given serval supporters to be kept in line with “but we are only little bit bad, those guys are really really bad”.
So what does this conflict have to do with Islam, exactly?
There should be consequences for publications hosting fascist propaganda
I wonder how many voters he would have lost if he had not taken a pro-Israeli stance? Probably a lot more.
Pro-Trump muslims. That’s just great. So Trump gets voted in and instead of having a president ask IDF to spare as many civilians as they can, there will be a president who asks IDF to kill as many muslims as they can. While openly assassinating Iranian generals with precision missile strikes.
Liberals love speculating what MIGHT happen, while ignoring what is actually happening.
So, what were trumps worda about muslims when he was president? Since youre concerned with what actually happened.
Still better then genocide. You and your fellow cohorts would be in an uproar if the exact same thing was happening if a republican was in the WH. You don’t care about people’s lives, only the one doing the killing
You and your fellow cohorts would be in an uproar if the exact same thing was happening if a republican was in the WH.
You’re making it obvious that you have a double-standard and are simply projecting that.
There’s no double standard, your comment makes the assumption I advocate for a Republican
There’s no double standard, your comment makes the assumption I advocate for a Republican
I made no such assumption. But considering how quickly you jumped on this despite me not saying, it’s clear how much you were intentionally baiting it.
Projecting and not arguing in good faith. Probably should be obvious from your name that you’re just a bad troll.
If supporting Israel is supporting genocide than Trump supports that too. Trump is one of Netanyahus strongest supporters, LOL.
I said nothing about supporting trump, I said oppose Biden. But Biden does happen to be the largest recipient of JStreet money
Opposing Biden is supporting Trump unfortunately in our two party system. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good
Instead of voters punching left, they should be making demands of the DNC to replace Biden.
In the little exerpt included in with the submission, a spokesman makes it clear that they would be worse off in the short run if trump gets elected, but they are thinking long term.
And this comment is implying they are pro trump…and it’s the highest voted comment? What’s going on here?
We live in a two party system. If you form a coalition to make Biden lose, then you’re making Trump win. They’re pro-Trump because they’re helping Trump. What’s going on is a fascist takeover of our country. We aren’t giving slack to anyone who enables fascism. The fascists will kill more people not less. This is bad short term thinking and bad long term thinking. The reward for helping fascists is death.
I agree with you it’s a dumb move. But dear God, they’re literally telling you, almost explicitly, that they don’t support the trump (basically supporting noone in the up coming election) and you’re still desperately torturing logic and twisting words to deny it. Is it really so hard for you to accept reality? Is it really so hard for you to accept that things are not so black and white?
It is that black and white. We live in a two party system, that’s reality. It’s not twisting words, it’s math. If one candidate doesn’t win, the other candidate does. Republicans are overrepresented by the electoral college, not voting helps them win. The support may be inadvertent, but it’s still support. They can say they don’t support Trump all they want. If they don’t vote for Biden, they are supporting Trump.
The support may be inadvertent, but it’s still support.
Using this tortured logic, if one doesn’t move to a swing state, even if they support and vote for Biden, their non action inadvertently helps trump get elected, so they actually support Trump.
It’s painfully dumb.
Republicans typically represent rural communities with low populations and high surface area. The electoral college votes are allocated to states based on the number of senators and representatives. Both of these are in turn skewed in favor of Republicans as each state gets two senators no matter what and the total number of house seats is capped at 435. Since neither chamber is properly apportioned by population, Republicans are overrepresented in both chambers.
Using this tortured logic, if one doesn’t move to a swing state, even if they support and vote for Biden, their non action inadvertently helps trump get elected, so they actually support Trump.
No one knows for sure which states are swing states until it’s too late. Remember the blue wall in 2016? Not enough democrat voters showed up and what were supposedly blue states went to Trump.
If a person doesn’t vote in an election then they are helping Republicans. If a person doesn’t vote for Biden then they are helping Trump.
A person doesn’t have to declare their undying loyalty to a candidate in order to support them. Making the other guy lose the election is sufficient. Your argument is splitting hairs.
No one knows for sure which states are swing states until it’s too late. Remember the blue wall in 2016? Not enough democrat voters showed up and what were supposedly blue states went to Trump.
Trump didn’t win any blue states, he won most of the swing states. And we also knew these were the close states, and we know which states are likely to be close again. This idea that “well, we plumb just don’t know what will be close states” is pretty much nonsense.
This is a dumb argument used to totally miss the point.
If a person doesn’t vote in an election then they are helping Republicans.
What if that person had voted, they would have voted for Trump? That voter is now hurting Trump’s chances, but according to this big-brain logic, that voter is actually helping Trump! lol.
And a person who doesn’t vote in a swing state is also helping Trump, despite the fact that they might have even voted for Biden. So, again, according to your logic, you can support and vote for Biden and still be a Trump supporter.
Your argument is splitting hairs.
You literally just argued “well, we don’t know for sure which are going to be swing states!” in an attempt to take down my point, and you’re accusing me of splitting hairs by pointing out that not supporting Biden does not mean you support Trump. Holy shit, this is hilarious. Do you even think about what you write down?
“But they are thinking long term”
Yes, I’m sure a second Trump presidency will be just great for democracy and Muslims in the long-term.
I agree, probably wouldn’t be. Couple that with all of the other threats to our world that Trump poses and “we’re not happy with Biden’s Israel/Palenstine issue so we’re pulling support” seems incredibly stupid to me.
But the poster implied they were supporting Trump, when they pretty clearly said they do not. Right there in the excerpt from the article. And it’s still being upvoted. It’s kind of embarrassing, actually, how little people had to read what is right in front of them to not be wrong on this point. . .and it’s still a popular opinion getting upvotes.
In a two-party system, refusing support to one party is effectively supporting the other. It’s not an insane thing to accuse people of, regardless of what they say.
If you check out the research work done by the political compass, you see it’s actually a one party system wearing a two party outfit.
If you check out the research work done by the political compass
Oh, lord.
Go check it out. They track democracies from all over the world. It is not partisan. They do not take pundits. They track policies and statements from the officials themselves. If you do not like actual sources, then I don’t know what to tell you. American candidates for the presidency have largely been on the authoritarian right for a decade. Candidates from both parties end up very close to each other on the chart.
Letting Democrats take advantage of your vote and not listen to you over and over again it’s not a good strategy either. They don’t actually stop any of the things they used to fearmonger people with. They just wait so that they can use them as a threat again in the next election cycle. That’s an abusive relationship.
“Yes, Jews recognize that it might not be the best next four years for us, but we just cannot support the Social Democratic Party of Germany for the 1933 election as our concerns are ignored by them and we are taken for granted. We’re thinking about the long term strategy here.”
Because the best strategy for leaving an abusive relationship is to start dating a serial killer.
A lot of people feel justified in not actually listening to others and judging them from afar as what is happening. They feel justified in doing this for very specific reasons.
Oh yes because religious people are known for making smart decisions…
Religious people making bad decisions doesn’t preclude people here from not being bright enough to read an excerpt that is right in front of them so they won’t be terribly wrong on what they think is a ridiculous position.
Their idiot’s facade of justification doesn’t stop it from being a ridiculous position.
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Absolutely shocked that Muslim fundies hate most of the same people Christian fundies do, yet are too stupid to realize the leopard will come for them eventually.
Shocked I say.
I’m sorry about your head injury.
