Initially, LinkedIn was just another site where you could find jobs. It was simple to use, simple to connect with others; it even had some friendly groups with meaningful discussions.
And then it gained monopoly as the “sole” professional network where you could actually land a job. If you are not on LinkedIn now, you are quite invisible in the job market. Recruiters are concentrated there, even if they have to pay extremely high prices for premium accounts. The site is horrible now: a social network in disguise, toxic and boring influencers, and a lot of noise and bloated interface to explore.
When Google decided to close their code.google.com, GitHub filled a void. It was a simple site powered by git (not by svn or CVS), and most of the major open-source projects migrated there. The interface was simple, and everything was perfect. And then something changed.
GitHub UI started to bloat, all kinds of “features” nobody asked for were implemented, and then the site became a SaaS. Now Microsoft hosts the bulk of open-source projects the world has to offer. GitHub has become a monopoly. If you don’t keep your code there, chances are people won’t notice your side projects. This bothers me.
Rant over. I hate internet monopolies.
Honestly, as others have mentioned, I don’t agree its bloated. If anything, its actually missing a few features (like the ability to bulk change many repos with the same issue tags). Also, I like some of the new updates that are being released.
It doesn’t run slowly in ANY way.
Furthermore, Sourceforge used to be the monopoly, and honestly, that was FAR more bloated. Projects will be found on any site, if its interesting. I don’t remember ever searching for projects explicitly using Github search (I only use Google). A good project will show up anywhere.
Well I feel like all the “modern” SPA stuff that got recently added, certainly adds “some” kind of bloat on top, it’s not as snappy anymore as it once was, but I think most of the stuff is improving QoL, so I think it’s reasonable…
We’re going to need a replacement for github pretty soon.
There are many good replacements, you just need to stop using Github :)
Some examples: Forgejo/Gitea (self-host or hosted eg. codeberg.de), Gitlab (self-host or hosted), Sourcehut (self-host or hosted eg. sr.ht)
This is only true for the merge request workflow and not at all a problem for the patch workflow, which can work entirely via email (and is in my eyes simpler). Have a look at https://git-send-email.io/ if you want to learn about it. This is the true decentralized spirit of git. :)
> Have a look at git-send-email.io if you want to learn about it.
But I don’t. And that is exactly the barrier I’m talking about.
By this logic, you want a complete monopoly of a single platform? Because that’s the only possible way to have “no barrier”. Unless GitHub starts federating with some kind of standardized protocol. This is a huge technological and monetary barrier for GitHub, which is why it will never happen on its own, so if users are not willing to try platform-independent workflows then the problem is frankly not the competing platforms.
What makes you think we need a replacement soon?
GitHub is owned by Microsoft and it seems to be getting worse. It is also nearly a monopoly and that’s bad in general.
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This is the way.
I’d rather not have to register on every individuals instance for every project, for bug reporting, discussion, or simple changes.
On github it’s easy for me to contribute and communicate. On other platforms, not.
You could set up a mailing list for the project and pass around email patches.
git send-emailandgit amare core parts of the functionality.While https://github.com/torvalds/linux does exist, the workflow for the various modules is described in https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/MAINTAINERS and the PR bot that shows up on pull requests in the repo: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/782
… and email is a federated protocol that is resistant to censorship that is associated with having a single server hosting the content.
Did you reply to the wrong comment?
I was talking as a user or contributor.
If the open source project is managed with local repos and patches are sent via email for consideration and integration, one doesn’t need to register remotes for each individual’s instance of the repo for each project.
With a bit of adjustment to the “how this works” for the workflow (rather than relying upon GitHub or Gitlab or any other centralized repo), git shines as a distributed version control system that is enabled with
git send-emailandgit am.The repo can be published to any of the hosting sites, but the workflow for changes, bug reporting, and discussion happens over email rather than via the implementation specific aspects of one hosting site or another.
There won’t be the issue of “this repo got taken down from {host} because it was owned by someone logging in from a sanctioned country.”
Yes, centralized hosting solutions make it easy to do these things… but the federated and distributed way to avoid them is hosting independence by managing the project through email.
There’s work to have instances federate, similar to how Mastodon or Lemmy work. And the admin could also enable Oauth2 login with GitHub and GitLab for easier access.
For reference, I think you want something like this: https://forgefed.org/
Bro that occurred years ago. Github and linkedin are both owned by Microsoft. It is a funnel from LinkedIn recruitment requiring Github requirements from the recruiters. Unfortunately nobody who is under 30 years old saw these dumb tools getting ripped off.
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I don’t think that’s how “gaining experience” works
Okay boomer. That has to be one of the most boomer things ever said.
Dude I’m 30 lmao. The fact that a moderator removed my comment that was just like “don’t use Microsoft products” is completely ridiculous. Like, have you never heard of embrace extend extinguish? I know about that and it literally was in my first years of life.
Okay boomer. Being 30 doesn’t stop you from having a boomer mentality.
Yeah dude what you are talking about is studying history lmao. Wouldn’t go so far as to say I have a boomer mentality considering my attitude about them involves [REMOVED BY ADMINS DUE TO FBI SUBPOENA]
Okay boomer
Ok zoomer
What an odd thing to say
Who tf thinks that’s reasonable
Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave?
Github has always had being a job site be it’s secondary feature.
Except that it has a slightly higher bar of entry to recruiters and recruitment bots spreading toxic positivity, and anyone asking for a job is able to prove (at least some of) their value by showing off their code and how they participate publically in other repos (if at all).
Same has happened in recent versions of Gitlab. Lots of feature creep and UI changes that seem non-intuitive (at least for me)
No, I don’t see how GitHub it turning into LinkedIn. Everything you said are definitely new things GitHub is doing but none of them are things LinkedIn does. LinkedIn is pretty much just Facebook with career applications built-in.
I am not saying they are competing on the same niche. I am saying both sites started well, and they transformed into something worse, profiting by their monopoly on their specific markets.
It sounds like your issue is with capitalism rather than GitHub. The same logic is applicable to many corporations.
monopoly: the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service.
GitHub is not a monopoly: it has competition. If you’re upset about it’s market share, switch to GitLab, Bitbucket, or host your own instance. If you’re upset about people not being aware of the other options, be an advocate and spread awareness of the alternatives.
It’s not a monopoly, but it’s still an oversized influence on the market. I think the poster is arguing that: when have you heard a recruiter ask you for your bitbucket account? But they will look at github.
I’ve put my gitlab link in my resume and it has never had anyone spark a question. Usually the recruiter isn’t concerned with it saying “github” so much as you try to answer it with something instead of a blank stare / left on read.
If they ask for a GitHub but you have a bitbucket send them the repo link to your bitbucket…
Yep, ‘Github’ is just a placeholder. If Bitbucket had the biggest market share (god forbid) the recruiter would ask for your bitbucket.
I wouldn’t say it’s a new LinkedIn, but it’s definitely a defacto monopolio. It pains be that Cargo (the official rust packaging system) is so integrated with it. My own personal hobby projects are self-hosted on a gittea instance right now, but I still have a github account to contribute to a friend of mine’s project which is, sadly, hosted there.
Its not anymore, the new sparse index protocol is not using github.
At least, there’s Codeberg, run by a German nonprofit, who’s challenging the monopoly. It is aimed exclusively for FOSS projects, private repositories are forbidden. They are running Forgejo as their bloat-free software forge server.
Now, I think every Web2 website must be operated by a nonprofit.
Codeberg has private repos
Section 2.1.2 of Codeberg Terms of Service says:
Private repositories are only allowed for things required for FLOSS projects, like storing secrets, team-internal discussions or hiding projects from the public until they’re ready for usage and/or contribution. They are also allowed for really small & personal stuff like your journal, config files, ideas or notes, but explicitly not as a personal cloud or media storage.
So it’s not for proprietary projects anyway.
Overall codeberg has been pretty decent, it’s where the Kbin project is located. There’s been a few outages over the last few weeks but overall it’s pretty good.
Yes, I also experienced some outages and thus delayed pushing (which made me re-think again of overusing git submodules).
Nevertheless, I migrated my works from my server and Github to Codeberg recently.
Github has had some outages recently too. Codeberg’s recent outage was particularly bad, but not serious.
From my PoV it’s probably many of these projects are effectively public good spaces. Hosting a code repository has become less of an esoteric thing and turning into a public good benefit (like a physical library but virtual for code). Spaces like Reddit and Twitter are todays analogous of a public discussion forum in a park or at a bar.
Internet tools have become so ubiquitous they are critical to serve public needs and public benefits. However these internet spaces are increasingly commercialized and privatized, which runs against them being valuable public goods (see the difference between Wikipedia, run primarily for public benefit, and Wikia/Fandom).
wasn’t codeberg using gitea? not it says powered by forgejo
Forgejo is apparently a fork of Gitea.
Forgejo is Codeberg’s fork of Gitea.
Hi! I am new to the programming world, and everything involved. What do you think about gitlab? Many people are using it instead Github. Also I heard about Codeberg, but I dont know anything about it :)
We use gitlab at work.
If you’re going for hosted, I’d always use github (userbase, UI, free features set). If you’re self hosting, gitlab is a good alternative. Their heavy promotion of and focus on full chain into managed cloud can be irritating and annoying though.
Gitlab has a free tier too. If you’re curious, try it out.
Every time I have to try to find things on gitlab I have a generally harder time doing so than on github. Maybe I’m just used to github’s layout, but gitlab’s just seems awkward to me. Also, I think non-tech-savy people will inevitably be confused by having to click “deployments” to get to releases; and on release pages, below where you actually download files, it always says “evidence collection”, which sounds really ominous (for end users)
I was thinking about switching to GitLab. But after reading your comment… not so much.
Just check it out, it has an open source base unlike GitHub. If you don’t like it, that’s fine, but like you do t even want to try it now?
Gitlab marketing docs heavily mislead you on its capabilities. Technically they are correct, but the way something works is reality isn’t often useful (epic boards are a great example).
This would be ok, but It’s really tightly integrated and doesn’t provide means for external tools to hook into it usefully.
For example I think GitLabs CI is the worst on the market but if you integrate another CI you don’t have a means to feedback information into Gitlab.
For example I think GitLabs CI is the worst on the market but if you integrate another CI you don’t have a means to feedback information into Gitlab.
You can do almost everything with the Gitlab API so I’m curious what issue you had.
I’m also not sure why “Gitlab CI is the worst on the market”? I really like in particular that I can have my own gitlab-runner on any machine.I want a build job to be triggered when a merge request is raised/changed to verify merge requests. Primarily I want it to comment/annotate changes so peer review focusses on logic and warnings are clear.
I can do this with Concourse, Circle, Jenkins and Github Actions on Azure Devops, Bitbucket Cloud, Bitbucket Server & Github. All Gitlab can tell you is pass/fail, which was good in 2003 but seriously lacking in 2023.
Similarly I want the ability to trigger a release and supply a desired version for the release (or someway to achieve that since our projects follow semantic versioning).
The release DSL is incomplete and could not work on server/cloud last time I used it. The page claims it can do alot but there is a hole in it and even the writer clearly knew.
I want the ability to specify multiple reusable pipelines, in a central place. This is not possible in cloud.
Lastly I would like to have multiple potential pipelines in a repository (e.g. smoke test and release). You can hack this in via variables. This will/won’t work depending specifically on the runner for your job. if self hosted or cloud you’ll notice different parsing behaviour depending on what host it runs on. This is shocking.
I have an email somewhere where I went through every GitLab CI DSL and documented which didn’t consistently work, which only worked consistently on cloud and which only worked on server. Also things like release that are broken on both.
The only way to make it work is to use multi stage docker builds and if your doing that build bot and a bash script would be better.
All of what you said seems completely doable to me.
Primarily I want it to comment/annotate changes so peer review focusses on logic and warnings are clear.
You can. See https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/ci/variables/predefined_variables.html
CI_PIPELINE_SOURCE
How the pipeline was triggered. Can be push, web, schedule, api, external, chat, webide, merge_request_event, external_pull_request_event, parent_pipeline, trigger, or pipeline
You have full access to the API and can do whatever you want in the MR too.
I want the ability to specify multiple reusable pipelines, in a central place. This is not possible in cloud.
You can, with CI templates. Templates can be in a completely different repository
Lastly I would like to have multiple potential pipelines in a repository (e.g. smoke test and release).
I do have different pipelines for staging and production in my projects with no issue.
Try to do it and get back to me.
For extra fun try to do it in cloud and server, you’ll realise some stuffis server only, some cloud only and the docs don’t tell you which one is true
I’m only using the hosted version, it works. I do have a separate gitlab-runner in GCP at the moment though that is working fine.
If something doesn’t work for you I suggest creating a ticket?
Gitlab adheres to a “one tool for all the jobs” philosophy and tends to be a performance mess for the end user. Every time I had to use it, I wanted not to.
SourceHut is a counterexample to claims of monolith superiority gitlab makes. Whether it will continue to be that is an open question, but right now it’s quite a joy to use.
Advantage of Github over Gitlab is code discoverability. My organization hosts Gitlab instance but I would still rather host my open source project on Github instead, because its impossible to collaborate on Gitlab with external users who dont have an account on our instance.
Once there is a federation feature similar to Lemmy, I would be happy to host everything there.
You can use Gitlab exactly the same as GitHub though if you use the hosted Gitlab. I have multiple of my open source projects on Gitlab.com and everyone can access.
Well not really, you would need an account in the organization in order to create issues, pull requests for a privately hosted instance. You can see the public repository but apart from cloning you cannot do anything else.
While Gitlab.com is centrally hosted, not much different than Github, you still cannot communicate with other Gitlab hosted servers.
Ah yes this I agree. But it’s not like it’s different on GitHub. I guess I got confused because you said “Advantage of Github over Gitlab is code discoverability.”.
While no it’s the same? There is no advantage for GitHub
This could be what you’re looking for. Their main implementation is a gitea fork, but I’ve seen mentions of gitlab as well. Unfortunately I don’t think github would ever consider being compatible, that would just lose them users.
Thanks. There is also a Gitlab issue requesting this feature, which I am tracking.
It needs to reach a polished state before organizations and university adapt it. So something like what you linked probably wont fly.
As an aside, anybody looking at alternatives or just similar tools should check out pijul which is another vcs that implements a very interesting algorithm for patches. They also host a very simple interface at https://nest.pijul.com.
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Yep, moved off GitHub the moment they announced it cuz I thought they were gonna pull the old Microsoft embrace extend extinguish
GitHub is not likely to follow that trend just because it has more value for them if it sticks around. They bought github, I think, for the branding as they’ve struggled immensely to get people to trust team foundation server and later azure devops brands because they sucked so bad early on. Using GitHub to put an entry-point for azure focused products in front of a huge audience is sly as well. Microsoft only needs to extinguish things if it is a threat (usually when they don’t own them). They’re happy to buy successful brands and roll them into integrations with their other products, making partnerships with growing orgs hard for said org to avoid. That’s what they want possibly more than anything as big enterprises take ages to begin working with entirely net new partners so they look at who they already have agreements with.
I don’t think anyone needs to be on github that’s just there for OSS projects (ie. being hosted on gitlab or somewhere else should be fine so long as it is public and search-indexed). Internet search and content aggregating platforms are good enough at getting me to where I need to go. GitHub’s search has never really been useful for me on that front.
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I see two points in your argument:
Everything becoming a social network
People working at tech companies have to justify their salary somehow and this is low hanging fruit for adding ‘features’ as all people feel some need for connection. Feeling that a place is alive with other people will motivate your more to engage with it, rather than say, your own Git hosted server. I don’t mind the social features added to GitHub as long as they don’t take the main stage, like it did in the LinkedIn transformation.
GitHub monopoly of open source
GitHub has for most of the time been the main place for open source. I don’t see a monopoly as necessarily bad as long as it remains focused on some values other than profit. I would rather have one big Wikipedia than a shitload of small fractured Wikipedias. Can it become a problem going forward, like it did with Reddit? Definitely, but I am cautiously optimistic. And in the worst case, git is heavily decentralized by design so you’re one
git remote add && git pushaway from moving. Migrating issues would be a bit more of a hassle, but surely there are solutions. And CI is not easily portable, but not a huge amount of work to convert to other formats.Codeberg can automatically migrate code and issues from using a personal access token iirc.
Github packages and especially CI/CD are the real vendor locking antifeatures.
Doesn’t Codeberg say it’s mostly for FOSS? They say private repos are only allowed for really small things like note keeping, so it wouldn’t be right to just move everything there from GitHub.
Fwiw, gitea has compatible actions. Not sure how compatible, though.
I can run GitHub workflows directly on my machine with ACT, I’m sure you could run that on your own private CI if you needed too. It’s not perfect, but if a lot of people started wanting to migrate I’m sure it could get better.
SourceForge went to shit when it was the de-facto location for free and open source software, now GitHub is where Sourceforge used to be. When will people learn?
