Gen Z hasn’t had their name changed several times yet
It’s fuckin annoying. The whole time I thought I was Gen X up until a decade ago. Then all of sudden other people are telling me I’m this bullshit.
For fucks sake, I remember using rotary phones and fucking with TV antennas to get better reception. I remember when no one had cell phones or the Internet. If you didn’t know an answer to something, you just made your peace with that.
I use the MTV demarcation line. If you were born before MTV came on the air (1982) then you’re GenX. But the whole Xenial thing is also legit.
PS the hidden secret to knowing anything before the internet was librarians. If it was really obscure the NY public library would take calls from all over the country.
No GPS, no map Quest, no internet on cell-phone. You just got lost in the smokey mountains for hours, about to run out of gas, hoping there was an open gas station at the next exit. Just raw-dogging those road-trips for the most part
Man, those were interesting times. It’s funny, elsewhere in these comments I remarked about a question people didn’t ask back in the day. “Where are you?” was hardly ever asked because of landlines.
Your response reminded me of an inverse question, one that’s rarely asked nowadays.
“Where am I?”
I think “Where are you” was perfectly acceptable when we had landlines. It was before phones that that was almost never asked.
Indeed, they were always perfectly acceptable. I was just commenting how you usually knew the location of the person you called because you knew to call that locations landline. You still wouldn’t know receiving calls off the bat, at least until caller ID.
I’m 35 and remember all those things too, but I was never under the impression I was gen x.
I’d say: if you remember the fall of the Berlin wall, you aren’t a millennial, no matter what they say. If you don’t remember 9/11, you’re gen Z.
It’s a microgeneration: the Xennials. We had all the analog fun of X and developed all the cynicism of Millenials.
Guess that makes me a zellenial. Fucked with rotary phones, dial-up, and analog tech but also grew up with access to the early internet.
The annoying thing I’m discovering is people insisting that millennials were all children in the early 2000’s, when, if millennials start with 1980 as I’ve been told (and it does seem to keep changing), a lot of millennials were adults before the 2000’s even started.
Ok boomer.
Did… Did you already forget what generation we’re talking about?
I get it. You’re changing their name again.
I think besides having better tech literacy, millennials also tend to be much more cynical about the state of the world. There is only so much you can take of taking the blame for ending the good old days while being called lazy and entitled before you get sick and tired of it all. Hell, you can see that in this very thread of some of us project our own cynicism onto Gen Z.
I don’t see that doomerism we millennials have in most of Gen Z. While we grew up in a world where we resigned to the fact that everything is getting worse, they grew up in a world where things are already terrible, and they think it needs to be fixed, and I have high hopes for them.
And I am so sick and tired of being sick and tired of everything, all the time. So I decided to change.
I think that will change as they spend more time in the real world. I was full of hope and dreams when I left high school too, but it’s long faded away.
I’ve definitely caught myself in the doom attitude. But I’ve been waiting for 30 years to for enough reinforcements to fight a winning fight against the boomers and their many terrible ideas. Here they are. Every millennial still able to fight, its back the the trenches. Our allies have the energy to push our fight through the doom, millennials and gen z together.
(And a huge thank you to the few boomers fighting along side us.)
There’s no fight. No battle. It’s just people trying to get by day to day. “Boomers” are not a nation, they’re just another way to split up people trying to get by so one group can justify being shitty to another. Rich and powerful people are happy to promote anything that keeps us divided and conquered. Wars have leaders and strategies and clear lines drawn. The “generational war” is just rats fighting over a piece of cheese dropped by the rich and powerful looking for amusement.
The only war is class war
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A Midwestern (several years behind the zeitgeist) Gen Z enjoying the best of both worlds:
They grew up knowing different Willy Wonkas. With a new remake due to drop in cinemas, it seems like the next generation will too.
Never even watched Wanka
That’s a completely different movie
I meant Willi Wankas but I was to lazy to type
I think you need to mark your comment NSFW!
Why? Did you watched Wanka? What is it about?
Wanka forever
The direction we prefer for scrolling.
RIP scroll bar and scroll wheel. I’m swiping down to move the bar, which does the heavy lifting of moving the page up for me. This allows me to scroll more with less fatigue and thus I can consume more internet and therefore get more knowledge. Plus, swiping down works your bigger superior forearm muscles, which is the part of the arm that the ladies like, whereas swiping up works the inferior muscle on the other side that no one cares about. In conclusion, scroll down for bigger brain, better grip, and more birches.
I recommend turning your mouse around
Computer use, millennials always had computers but Gen Z grew up with tablets and smartphones.
I’m among the first millennials. I grew up without a computer. While we had that single, ancient Apple II in school for the Oregon trail, it was just as a “treat” and never in any serious educational use. Didn’t even have a computer lab till high school, and all they really taught us was word processing/typing. I was lucky we had some extra off site courses available that taught some IT, CAD, HTML, and programming. But that was by the end of the 90s, 1998-99.
But yeah, point I’m making is while computers were around, not everyone really knew about them. I think there were a good number of middle class millennials who got to grow up with access to a computer at home. My family was too broke to lay down 2 grand on a computer that my parents had no understanding what it was useful for.
A lot of millennials learned more IT skills due to user unfriendly operating systems, whereas a lot of GenZ don’t have as much exposure to that, due to phones being way more capable and having OS’s being more user friendly and locked down.
Millennials remember when video games weren’t pay to win.
Millennials remember when video games weren’t pay to win.
And Gen X’ers remember when they WERE. 😂
So do millennials. There were a lot of really popular arcade beat ‘em ups in the 90’s. People claiming to be millennials who deny that are lying about one thing or another.
More like pay-to-play!
Yes, the early days when games where literally 10 bucks an hour to play.
I miss you, Cyberstrike and Airwarrior.
A subscription to Nintendo Power didn’t count.
I could actually see that being a good argument, even though they were talking about arcades
They’re referring to arcades
We also remember when most video games involved having a finite number of lives and having to start over completely if you lost them all.
Some games are like this today, but not many. Back in the day it was the basic assumption of every video game. Based off arcade games. And it seemed so natural.
And finite lives was bad. Like super Mario world on the snes. The only penalty for running out of lives was that you start at the beginning of the level and not at the checkpoint.
Before they had saved game state they had “warp codes” that you’d enter to start the game at a later point than the beginning.
Mega Man X Password theme plays with vigor
Arcade games or handheld or video games didn’t have any storage. Even on old home computers if you’d want to program in a save feature, you’d need to instruct the user to change to a fresh cassette for save. Then back to the game tape for reloading the game. And rewind and find the save on top of that to load.
It took a long time before floppies became ubiquitous, even longer for hard disks.
Millennials remember when video games weren’t pay to win.
You mean like arcade beat ‘em ups that are near impossible to complete on one credit? Or Gauntlet, where you literally got more health just from inserting coins?
Wrong generation man. Millenials grew up with consoles and PCs. They don’t game in arcades as much as the MTV generation.
What range do you consider millennials?
Oldest millennials were born in early 80s? So when they were at the gaming age it would be in the 90s, during the era of the console boom.
If you were primarily the arcade-trotting group you’d have to be a kid or teen in the 80s which puts you in Gen X.
You speak with such authority, and yet, I know you are not a millennial. A millennial would know that arcades were white-hot in the 90’s. Have you ever heard of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? Turtles in Time? The Simpsons? X-Men? All those Neo Geo games? There was also this game called…um, street something…streets of fighting? Street Kombat? Mortal Fighter? Street Fighter? I think they made a second one of those, too. Shoot, where did that come out originally? It’s escaping me right now. It’ll come to me eventually.
Have you ever heard of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? Turtles in Time? The Simpsons? X-Men? All those Neo Geo games? There was also this game called…um, street something…streets of fighting? Street Kombat? Mortal Fighter? Street Fighter?
Yes and most if not all of those landed on console too. Your point?
I’m not saying that arcades are unsuccessful in the 90s. I’m saying for millennials, the notion of video games had shifted from primarily arcade to primarily console due to the console boom in the 90s, thus supporting OP’s point that Millenials should remember a time when games are not pay-to-win.
You say people born in the early 80’s are millennials, but if you were a kid in the 80’s that makes you gen x? Do you not know how math works? Someone born in the early 80’s would be a kid during the 80’s.
What are you on about? These generations are defined by date ranges and not something I made up. So yes, it is entirely possible that the oldest of the old Millennials might be arcade crawling at age 8 or 9 in the 80s, but a whole bunch more of them are still in diapers or not even born yet. Make sense?
Yes and most if not all of those landed on console too. Your point?
What’s your point? If a game came out on console, it doesn’t matter that it was ever an arcade game?
I’m saying for millennials, the notion of video games had shifted from primarily arcade to primarily console due to the console boom in the 90s
Speaking as millennial in the 90’s, this is untrue. I, and most of my millennial friends played games on consoles, in arcades, and even on PC! If a game came out in arcades, and later came to consoles, it is still an arcade game. It doesn’t suddenly not become an arcade game because it’s been released elsewhere.
Also, do you seriously not know about Street Fighter 2? This is the biggest takeaway that you are not a millennial. The 90’s had a HUGE arcade boom with fighting games. Arcades were filled with fighting games, and the most popular games would have multiple units and still have long lines of people waiting to play. This was a huge part of gaming in the 90’s as millennials. There’s a reason why people wanted to play Street Fighter 2 so much when it came out on SNES: it was already extremely popular in arcades! At this point I feel like you are deliberately trying to troll, and like the idiot I am, I’m just taking the bait.
thus supporting OP’s point that Millenials should remember a time when games are not pay-to-win.
Again, I am a millennial who played beat ‘em ups in arcades a lot. They were very popular Those games are straight up pay to win. Yes they came out on consoles too, but a) those versions weren’t as good, therefore b) the arcade versions were still more popular
These generations are defined by date ranges and not something I made up.
Whoops! My bad. Millennials started in 1981 and I was born in 1980. Guess I was never a millennial after all except the years keep changing and I’ve seen start dates of 1980, 1979, and 1978 as well. It’s hard to keep track when the date keeps changing.
So yes, it is entirely possible that the oldest of the old Millennials might be arcade crawling at age 8 or 9 in the 80s
Ok, now I gotta ask; are you an alien? Because most human children begin walking within the first 2 years. 8 or 9 year olds usually don’t need to crawl
but a whole bunch more of them are still in diapers or not even born yet.
Hmm, it’s almost like the experiences of everyone with a generation aren’t all exactly the same.
Man, I remember when games were as simple as
- Power on
- Play game
does setting up virtual machine count
The digital landscape is so different. I teach undergraduates and it’s hit or miss whether they understand what a file path is. But honestly, I’m not sure it will be relevant in the same way for much longer. I grew up installing games from CD and establishing a specific file path and folder for install and if I did it wrong it wouldn’t work. With GUI’s becoming more simple and intuitive, combined with advances in machine learning and algorithmic design, I have no problem imagining a future where all file structures are transparent to the user.
That’s funny I’d call that opaque not transparent.
I certainly don’t like that there are browsers that hide the full URL. That’s a key part of safe browsing in my opinion: watching the domain name and the parameters. Like, if the link doesn’t point to a domain you trust be careful with it you know? But you can’t know that if it’s not showing link targets or if the URL is obfuscated
I initially wrote “opaque” and then second guessed myself, got confused, and refused to look up the correct use.
It’s opaque.
Imagine an AI llm combined with an OS file search. Like “two years ago I was playing Skyrim and I installed a lot of mods, and I think one of them turned all the dragons into Kirby. Where was the installer for that mod?”
And then your computer is like “I gotcha bro, here’s the installer right here.”
That’d be pretty cool. But then again it’d probably also go “I’ll go ahead and install it for you. And hey, while I’m at it I know you’re gonna love this ad tracking program that paid M$ a few million dollars for your info, so Imma install that too. If you’d rather not install it, feel free to find your files and run the installer yourself”
Feel free to build your own computer from sand and charcoal. You’re totally free to do things your own way so long as you don’t use our platform, and don’t forget We Own Everything Already ™. You’re welcome to start your own village on another planet somewhere and take all the sand you need. But you can’t use our rockets to get there.
I teach undergraduates and it’s hit or miss whether they understand what a file path is.
I provide tech support to Linux sysadmins and it’s still hit or miss whether they understand what a file path is.
Linux, servers, the cloud is still using the terminal.
It was ridiculous how long it was abstracted away on iOS for so long (took forver to get the Files app, lots of random third party nonsense)
This sounds like millennials version of they can’t do cursive
Millennials are ignorant of Rodney King Riots, Desert Storm, Waco / Oklahoma City Bomber (far right domestic terrorism), Newt Gingrich’s rise of the ‘Party of No’, and other such political events of their era. Pop quiz, what is the Cranberries’s Zombie song about?
Gen Z however is keenly aware of the problems occurring around them.
I remember the politics of the 90s. It wasn’t as happy as others point out here. We really didn’t start the fire.
Columbine happened under our childhood yo. And the 1980s going Postal craze was a different brand of public mass shootings. 9/11 was the SECOND attack on the Twin towers after all.
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I’m also a millennial and all my friends are millennials.
Outside of my history-buff friends, most of my friends (despite being Engineers, Doctors, PH.Ds and other well-educated positions) are very ignorant of the 90s era of politics. All of us have had our awakening starting with 9/11 or so. In fact, the only reason why I know these things is because I explicitly went back and studied the politics of my childhood. Its not a thing I knew back then.
Most of my elders who were young adults and adults in the 90s don’t know what that song is about either.
Typical Gen Z will know “This is America” references the Charleston church shooting. As well as adults.
You know why? Because today, we have the internet, and everyone is far more knowledgable and can pick up on references. Back in the 90s, “Zombie is about The Troubles” was obscure, and hell… just knowing what “The Troubles” were was kind of obscure with a lot of people completely ignorant to the events.
Today, we have things called cellphones, Wikipedia and Google. The level of obscurity and references in our modern media landscape is far more subtle because everyone and everything is smarter. Have you ever use the Dewey Decimal System, card catalog, and microfiche to look up information? Shit was hard to do research back then.
Have you ever use the Dewey Decimal System, card catalog, and microfiche to look up information?
No, I’m a millennial I used the Internet.
Bullshit.
The best we had in the 90s was Encarta, ya know, that CD-ROM Microsoft sent with some computers?
My library was on Dewey Decimal / Card Catalog for a good chunk of my childhood. If I was looking up information, it was like that. The computers were some weird old DOS-like prompt screen that almost no one knew how to use. No fucking internet. My Dad happened to be able to get Microsoft Encarta and that was the first time I ever was able to look up information in any manner similar to today, but as a CD-ROM it was only about historical / cultural old stuff, not about recent events.
No, I’m a millennial I used the Internet.
And secondly, bullshit. Wikipedia wasn’t invented yet… and if it had been invented, it wasn’t respected until the 2010s+ (unable to be used to write our school reports off of). So what website were you even using back then if you happened to magically have access to the Internet?
We were playing Neopets, maybe using GameFAQs or spreading memes on SomethingAwful. But looking up information? What is this, 2010s+ ?? No one trusted the internet yet for information.
Wikipedia started in '01. I was absolutely using it before '02/'03 for schoolwork. Just because you didn’t know about it or how to cite things doesn’t mean that applies to everyone.
You’re very combative that anyone could’ve had a different experience than you. Internet in the 90’s was not abnormal. Usenet/IRC/AIM/other various messengers were all big then even if it was the latter end.
Rage Against the Machine was huge in the 90s, just because you sang along not noticing the lyrics doesn’t mean everyone else did either.
He’s the one
Wikipedia started in '01. I was absolutely using it before '02/'03 for schoolwork. Just because you didn’t know about it or how to cite things doesn’t mean that applies to everyone.
100% bullshit. You’re forgetting that I’ve actually lived in this era. No teacher was accepting of Wikipedia citations until the later 00s. There was no trust on Wikipedia’s articles until much later. You didn’t cite Wikipedia because your Teachers would penalize you for doing so. (and this culture was true well throughout all the 00s). Citations on the other hand, were just a Microsoft Word / .doc plugin so it wasn’t that big a deal.
Furthermore: there were competing online wikis and webpages. I don’t even think Wikipedia was the breakout wiki at that age, but instead the C2 Wiki.
Ok Boomer
Sounds like you’re a cunt.
Don’t throw about references to The Troubles like it’s hidden history.
How doesn’t it sound like he’s a cunt?
Go look at this “90s was full of hope” crap that the rest of this thread is full of.
There were the Troubles in Ireland/Britain, there was Osama Bin Laden (1993 Bombing, 1998 Embassy Bombings). The was far-right nationalism. There was Columbine. There was Rodney King race riots. There was Desert Storm 1.0. There was Ruby Ridge and Waco. Etc. etc.
I dare say that today is possibly more peaceful than back then. We just are more informed about various disasters today than we used to be. All this “Era of Peace” crap the rest of this thread is talking about is pissing me off. It wasn’t like that in the 90s at all.
I’m bringing up the Troubles because 90s-era Troubles got pretty bad, up to the Good Friday Agreement in the very late 90s. The world was always on fire, and any 90s kid talking about “The Peaceful 90s” has extremely selective memory.
What an idiotic take.
Mate we were literal children during these events.
Much like Zoomers are young adults or teens today, look at our teenage years and young adulthood and focus on those events. No Zoomer was politically motivated at 4 years old nor was I during the Rodney King Riots.
We fucking had global protests with hundreds of millions standing up against the 1% and American wars.
We were and still are well aware of the problems around today as well.
Mate we were literal children during these events.
My literal 7 year old niece knows about both the Israel-Hamas War and the Ukrainian War.
I duno how old you were, but lets say 3 years after the Rodney King riots of 92? So lemme pick a random 1995 event. Were you aware that Israel Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated when you were 7? Something I do remember was the USS Cole bombing. Do you remember that? That happened a bit later, Wikipedia says 12 October 2000.
The issue isn’t “we were children”. The issue is that research and information was far more difficult back then. Newspapers cost money and required manual reading. (Though I was able to pickup a few Newspapers when I was waiting for a haircut or other such events). We didn’t have online forums (well, ignoring BBS and USENET)… or at least online forums weren’t popular. And internet was very expensive and slow back then. So we didn’t get information anywhere as quickly as children today get information.
Secondly, it wasn’t “cool” to be politically informed before 9/11. That was just nerd shit back then. 9/11 changed our collective mindsets and everyone became more aware of world events.
I think this ties back to the original question. Gen Z is way more exposed to social media and therefore world news including propaganda at levels millennials never saw until adulthood. In the 90s you needed to watch the news or read the newspaper to know what was happening and if you missed it you would only know about it if it was broadcasted again. Nowadays we’re bombarded 24/7 with all kinds of news in the same place where you watch funny dog videos.
Yup. Its nothing about “better” or “worse”. Its about the technological differences of today’s children vs myself as a child.
Here’s a memory for yall who are too young to remember how dumb we were in the 90s. On 9/11, bullies were blaming China (and me, being a slanty-eye Asian) for bringing down the Twin Towers. I think people don’t grasp how unfathomably ignorant pre-Internet and pre-9/11 people were. Such a mistake wouldn’t happen today.
Nothing against those bullies. Everyone was that dumb back then.
9/11 was a big wakeup moment. Society collectively decided that paying attention to world events was important, and we got smarter. Technology improved as well, so it became easier to look up news events after that. But deep down within our collective psyche was a turning point in foreign-policy mindset. I’m seeing that Gen Z today is far more anxious and worried about world events (both good, and bad, associated with that). The 90s “peaceful” era of my youth was an illusion, it was created by my (and my peer’s) collective ignorance about the world.
I look at my ignorant Youth vs what GenZ grows up with today, I see pros/cons with both. I think knowing more about the world is a better thing overall though.
Where did you live that has people who blamed East Asian people for 9/11?
The ignorant people here were blaming Indians and other South Asians, and that was the limit of ridiculousness where I grew up
Your literal 7-year old probably isn’t a Zoomer
You literal 7 year old is not 5. Of those events you listed, the Troubles is the only one I was over 4 years to experience the end portion.
Go ask your 7 year old niece what Bombs Over Baghdad by OutKast is about and see if they don’t guess the War On Terror/OIL.
That isn’t the issue, by the new millennium, it’s millennials were well and truly getting all our knowledge digitally.
Honestly you sound more like a Xenial or Gen X’er, because your experiences sound so outdated.
You literal 7 year old is not 5. Of those events you listed, the Troubles is the only one I was over 4 years to experience the end portion.
Okay so you were 7 during the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin and you were 12 during the bombing of the USS Cole and you were 7 during the Oklahoma City Bombing. You were 9 during the US Embassy Bombings (linked to Osama Bin Laden: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_United_States_embassy_bombings).
We all know children today, even literal 7 year olds, are more informed than we were back then. Like seriously, we couldn’t look up information back then. Its nothing against us as a generation, its everything to do with our technological level.
I know 2/3 of those events, I’m also not American and have my own countries events to remember.
Also I 100% doubt any Zoomer (or anyone else) today will remember 90% of this stuff in 30 years either.
And by 1995 we already had search engines and could look up information. WebCrawler, Lycos, Alta Vista, Jeeves, Dogpile, Yahoo, etc.
You seem to think the 90s and 2000s were some technological dark age on par with the 80s.
Do you not remember how bad search was before Google?
It was like being at the library and using that card index system. It was like “welp, hopefully there’s a book someone decided to tag ‘field mice’ because that’s the only way I’m gonna find information about field mice”.
Uh huh. Peak AOL was 2002 my dude.
And with 25-million subscribers, that’s only some ~25% of American-households with AOL back then, at its absolute peak. Internet in general was never a common thing for Americans to get until the Broadband era.
If you want to talk about the internet in the 90s, be my guest. But any Millennial who lived through that era remembers that the internet was relatively rare. Most people’s exposure was through libraries and maybe schools/university systems.
I’m a millennial who was aware of all the things you said we were ignorant of. Also, I was an adult when Columbine happened.
Good. Now look at the rest of this thread downstream. Plenty of people talking about how “peaceful” the 90s were as if they didn’t live in that era.
I stand by what I said. Millennials largely were ignorant of world events before 9/11 and the overall explosion of information the internet afforded us. Meanwhile, GenZ always lived in post 9/11 world AND always had information at their fingertips.
Nerds weren’t celebrated back in the 90s. If you knew too much back then (or showed that you knew too much), people would look at you funny and bully you. Today, knowledge is more generally appreciated.
Plenty of people talking about how “peaceful” the 90s were as if they didn’t live in that era.
Well, those people are wrong. They may have felt that way, based on their own experiences and perspectives, but they can’t speak for the entire generation. None of us can.
First of all, I think this is you being an older millennial, my formative millennial memories, especially politically, mostly happened in the 2000s.
I think what you don’t even realize your comment shows is that most of these events, while they seem like paradigm-shifting events when put into historical context and tied together with the decade of history they were surrounded by don’t actually have a significant impact on the individual.
I was aware as a millennial growing up of many events like these that happened in my life. followed the news in and out. But now I couldn’t even tell you much if any of the significant details of any of them.
I noticed you didn’t include 9/11 as a forgotten event, an event that was truly significant in a way. Much in the same way, I’m sure most of gen z will be aware of those same types of events when they get older but will only really remember COVID, maybe something about Trump too.
Millennials are ignorant of […]
Most Millenials aren’t actually Americans, so why should they give a fuck?
I know every event you listed, including the implied first attack on the twin towers. I was born in 93. I used to read forums and remember chat rooms during the early modern internet.
Your experience was simply not like mine, did you download the old doom shareware wads? They were hosted by id, online, before I was even able to use a computer. Diablo? Downloadable updates! Anyone remember that?
did you download the old doom shareware wads
Ummm… no. I loaded it through a floppy found in the mail through a system called shareware. (Where people would leave floppy disks in people’s mailboxes, and we didn’t know what viruses were so we just plugged them into our computers).
Did you actually exist in the 90s? That was floppy era of shareware, you’d spread games like Doom by mail and/or by copying the floppy and giving it to a friend. That’s why it was called SHAREware, you shared it with friends. In some cases, computer stores would combine a bunch of shareware games into CD-ROMs (650MBs!!! So much space!!) and you’d get a lot of shareware all at once.
Oh my goodness, it’s almost like what I said had nothing to do woth floppy disks or even discrediting their use.
According to the US census, 18 percent of housholds had internet use at home. Yahoo was around in 1995, usenet usage started dropping, and school systems started getting schoolwide internet access.
Your memory is vapid and you are clearly misremembering large swaths of important facts.
Edit: spelling.
Us Census figure was 1997. https://www.census.gov/data/tables/1997/demo/computer-internet/p20-522.html
Looks like 22% had internet at home, but over 54% had a computer.
How do you think the majority of computer users played Castle of the Winds, Jazz Jackrabbit, Doom, or other shareware games? Hint: it wasn’t the internet because most computer users didn’t have internet.
1993, the previous census figures are even worse as that’s before AOL
Btw, downloads weren’t a thing even for those who had internet. Back then, you paid per
minutehour of internet usage.My family connected to the internet to download (POP3) out email and then disconnected. Because my Mom would then want to use the phone to call her friends. Unless you had two phone lines like a rich person, extended multi-hour download sessions at 33kbps (or slower) was just not a thing.
That’s 14MB per hour, if you don’t remember how slow 90s internet was.
The college students with T1 connections were the source of shareware / disks by the later 90s (like 97, 98 etc. Etc). But home users weren’t doing online downloads yet, too expensive and too slow.
So quit your bullshitting.
We were poor as sin, still downloaded that diablo patch bro.
Happened to live In an apartment above a friend’s business, during nighttime when the store was closed we had access to a second phone line.
If I recall correctly, the patch was 8 mb. Someone correct me if I’m wrong on the size.
Sorry but, there simply isn’t any bullshit to be given pal. I was a child, so no idea how much it cost my dad. Maybe I’ll ask him.
https://money.cnn.com/1996/11/01/technology/aol/
In a letter sent to the service’s members Oct. 28, AOL Chairman Steve Case touted a new pricing plan that offers unlimited access to the service’s proprietary content as well as to the Internet for $19.95 a month.
[Snip]
Until the new unlimited plan was unveiled, all users paid $9.95 a month for 5 hours of usage and $2.95 for each additional hour.
This is what I remembered. My dad always told me to watch the Internet usage, because it cost money for each hour. These were 5-hours / month plans back then. That being said, 1996 is a year before Diablo, meaning the “unlimited” plans came in soon afterwards. But “unlimited” didn’t really work out in our favor because my mom and grandma who lived with us always wanted to use the phone.
And we were the only kids of the neighborhood who had internet. People came over to our house to surf the net.
I was around in the 90’s. I downloaded the Doom shareware (and many others) from either the internet or local BBS’s in like, 1994.
Definitely as a millennial I’m of the last generation that will remember arranging to meet up somewhere in advance and sticking to that plan (or rearranging over landline with more than a day’s notice…)
But something I’ve noticed when I ask people in my team what their dream jobs are the younger people tend to say ‘run their own businesses’, ‘work for themselves’ etc. Whereas in our generation (in my circles anyway) that definitely wasn’t so prominent. Maybe a side effect of seeing influencers making it big?
Definitely as a millennial I’m of the last generation that will remember arranging to meet up somewhere in advance and sticking to that plan (or rearranging over landline with more than a day’s notice…)
This is related to an interesting phenomenon I noticed while chatting about this with my parents. The question “where are you?” was hardly asked back in the day. With landlines, you already knew where they are. The only time that question was asked involved payphones. And those barely exist anymore either.
Just spitballing here, but the “dream job” question might also come down to the destruction of the middle class (and the recognition thereof). 20 years ago it looked a lot more like you could make a good living working for someone else, doing something interesting. Plus there was more trust that employers would “do right” by their employees. There were pensions and quality healthcare benefits.
Now all that (and the security it brings) has dissolved. It may not be Gen Z people wanting to make it big or be a celebrity, but a desire to live comfortably and seeing that they can’t trust an employer to let them do that. If the only way you can build security for yourself is by building a big pile of money, then people are going to seek that out.
Edit: and when I say that “20 years ago” these things existed, I don’t mean that they were still functioning like they did another generation earlier, but it was way better than it is now and there was less awareness of what was happening.
I remember those times, those were the before or early cell phones times, where like half the people carried a phone. You would be at the restaurant wondering if Jon would ever show because he is kind of a flake… then Donny would suggest calling Jackie because she has a cellphone and is always with Jon, but then none of it matters because Donny’s phone is shit because he has T-Mobile which doesn’t yet have coverage in this part of the country, so he just carries it as a status symbol.
Also a lot harder for them to get jobs. It wasn’t non-trivial for a lot of millenials either to much economic and mental desperation.
I mean yeah, I’ve been unemployed for a significant part of my working life. I guess you can also add to my list being the last generation encouraged to get a degree by well meaning parents and teachers at school ‘because it will guarantee you getting a job for life’.
Maybe a direct effect of making work environment as toxic as possible through adverse management practices and work organisation.
Working conditions became a true hell during these last 20 years.
Me, reading these comments, laughing in GenX
Who?
(Lol jk fellow GenXer)
Oh we’re well aware of who you are, you’re the last generation of boomerism.
Forgotten generation title doesn’t last when the next generation doesn’t forget you.
Let the 20th century’s middle children have their joke. Comon, it was a little goof and you come in guns blazing. Relax, save your energy for fighting something that matters.
Now if you’ll excuse me I’ll be over here rubbing IcyHot and cannabis lotion on my joints as I quietly await an early death
Dude, you’re, like, caring too much. Gen X card revoked. Whatever.
That depends, what’s the border year?
Even the clumsiest millennials have a level of body awareness that’s rare in gen z-ers, because we grew up in dangerous physical environments.
What? I don’t understand. Please explain.
Toward the end of our (X) childhood, a number of major transitions in the handling of kids were being made:
- Playgrounds were being transitioned into minimally-dangerous versions of themselves
- Bullying was being cracked down on
- Latchkey parenting was being recategorized as neglect and being cracked down on my CPS
This meant that Gen X kids had a lot of situations to deal with as kids where they had to develop physical skill as a means of staying safe.
For example by the age of 7 I could climb a tree and be pretty safe because I had developed upper, lower, and trunk body strength, awareness of how strong a branch is and how to test it for strength, how to detect when a contact point I was resting on was slipping, and how to control my mind enough to maintain enough focus to not slip up while climbing.
On playground equipment, I had to be ready for a fall onto concrete, and I had to know when wood was likely to produce enormous splinters (I actually got a huge splinter through my ass once. It went in below my butt cheek and came out above it), and I had to deal with the results of kids going crazy trying to spin the spinny thing as fast as they could. I went flying off that thing so many times.
Also, during the summer when I was 7, my friend was 8, and we had little bikes, and we would spend the entire day outside wandering the town. We often would find a stream and slowly work our way up the stream. This involved a lot of balancing on rocks and logs, catching small animals, even fighting my friend sometimes. We’d swim in muddy streams that were full of broken machinery and glass bottles, and it was up to us to know how to stay safe in that environment.
The world was just less safetyfied back then.
Now I see people of age 20 or so, and they walk like toddlers. I’m not talking about disabled people here. Just people who are able-bodied, but they move like they’ve been recently downloaded into a human body, like it’s unfamiliar to them.
This is the same crap Boomers said about Millenials.
And it was true
Millennials generally had hope and lost it.
Gen Z never had any hope.
This is generally what I came to say, except to add that Gen Z is giving me (old millennial) some hope. We were frogs in the pot, but it’s a rolling boil and zoomers like Greta, David Hogg, and the 12 year old who interrupted COP28 seem alright.
Ultimately, I’m determined to break the cycle of previous Gen calls current Gen lazy. These kids are alright and I wish we had left them better.
I don’t think they’re lazy but I do think they’re paranoid and cynical. Perhaps understandably, but not helpfully.
I thought you were saying this about Millennials and Gen X and I was going to agree, ha. Understandably but not helpfully apathetic
am zoomer
I at least feel like millennials have been so relentlessly screwed by older generations and the portion of ours who got lucky that it’s not our fault.
Am millenial. Can confirm the first part.
That hope died 9/11/2001.
2008 financial crisis ripped the last vaneer off.
The rich won’t be allowed to lose. The whole system is bullshit. You can do everything right, get sick cuz fuknature, have to sell everything off for medicine and still die, younger than you should, in debt and penniless. It’s not even necessary, the Cruelty is the point. That’s capitalism. It’s about control, and capitalists need to be looked at like they have a mental illness. Most our jobs are bullshit and don’t matter. The national debt doesn’t matter. Money isn’t real, it’s a vehicle for resource allocation, not a store of value, but try getting someone not ready to hear that to even think about our social systems as something mutable and not organic or ordained. Nope. Society was designed, by people, and it’s working exactly as it’s intended, which is, fucking great for them and fuck everyone else.
At the end of the day, your physical body has had just one goal. Survive. Everything I have to do to achieve that end is justified by existence itself. Building a system that puts itself in the way of people simply surviving is building a system to fail. When it comes to politics, and by that I mean, do-whatever-you-want-as-long-as-it-doesn’t-hurt-someone-else and then policies, and for policy I just ask “is this the best we can do?”
I don’t think I see the best we can do anywhere.
Do you think that society was designed by people who are alive today?
We have a living constitution, a living body of law. Current laws have been bought and paid for, just like judges, representatives, senators…
The deviation from where we started to where we are was a process of the living and still is for today’s legislators, or more accurately, today’s lobbyists who actually craft the laws and have them at the rest in case the Overton window moves to the point they’re feasible.
Millennials grew up in the 90s, possibly one of the “best” decades in modern history: good economy, closest we’ve gotten to “world peace,” comparative political stability and “quiet” (the biggest scandal in US politics was Monica Lewinsky), and problems existed but generally seemed to be getting better with time not worse. The 90s were an optimistic time, especially considering the snowballing disaster of a 21st century that followed.
Edit: also advancements in science and technology were bright and exciting, without the constant existential dread of “what calamity have we unleashed this time?” The biggest tech/science-advancement ethical debate I remember was about cloning people, which is a genuine sci-fi-esque moral quandary but ended up being generally moot in reality.
I thought we gen X were the youngsters in the nineties :-)
The 90s were the calm before the storm.
At least where I live as a millennial you could have had a really nice childhood - until you finished school. Most struggled to find a job. Businesses would hire you as unpaid intern at best, etc. All while your parents (the boomers) expected you to have house, car and family in your twenties.
Our biggest environmental worry was landfills growing to cover the entire planet. We were all convinced this was our fate and that we had to recycle everything mainly to protect ourselves from having to live on ever-expanding waste dumps.
Yeah, but us millennials were only teenagers at best, toddlers at the youngest. Not really enough time to do anything with it. So while we got to experience a cool time in our youths, we had it all ripped away as soon as the .com bubble burst, and then 9/11 hit, along with other mixed events, like the Unabomber, Columbine, etc. We were also the first in line to get sent to Afghanistan.
Meanwhile Gen X got to live their adult lives during the 90s and make a name for themselves.
How much of a name did you make for yourself by 22?
Sure, some aspects of the 00s were shit, but that felt like a bump in the road: things were still on the up-and-up overall, and the general expectation was that we could change the future for the better, resolve the world’s issues, and live better lives than our parents. That all came crashing down sometime around 2010 with the Great Recession, failure of Occupy, and realization that Obama wasn’t the knight in shining armor we’d literally hoped for. So the difference is that Millennials remember a pre-9/11 world and the less-great-but-still-hopeful early 00s, whereas Gen Z doesn’t.
Someone recently asked why the devil admitted he’d lost the fiddling match with Johnny. They said “If he’s the devil why didn’t he just claim he’d won?”.
I’d never asked myself that before. It had never occurred to me that the devil might cheat in a contest.
It made me realize that the dominant view of how people operate has changed in our culture. We now tend to assume people are slimeballs. The shittiest, back-stabbiest, most underhanded dishonest stuff now seems like normal behavior. Not even consciously necessarily. We just assume everyone is a barely-held-together antihero just looking for an excuse to take the gloves off and do nasty shit, and that we’re only good to our tight inner circle while it’s okay to treat the rest of the world like garbage.
It’s our zeitgeist. I’m finally starting to grok that word’s meaning, after having lived through four decades.
This is beside your point but a related question to the first part is, why does Satan punish bad people? Shouldn’t he appreciate that about them?
Satan doesn’t punish. Satan’s whole job is temptation. Anyone tempted would technically be punished by god.
I assume the mixup has to be resultant of the constant game of religious Telephone. Not really surprising. It’s pretty awkward to frame your spotless savior who is the living embodiment of Love as also doing deliberate premeditated torture, even when it’s written right there. And comparatively simple to expect it from someone who’s supposed to embody unpleasantness.
What’s hell all about, then? I always understood from Christian theology that it was a place controlled by Satan where Bad People are tortured for an infinite amount of time after death.
God punishes them. Satan just does his job.
I thought Satan was a rebel. Now he’s just an employee?
Oh yeah I don’t disagree that gen z is fucked
I’d say that we’re all fucked. There’s going to be at least one global population correction in the next century. Even if we are able to push it back through mitigation, new development, geoengineering, luck and pluck, the zoomers are going to see it by midlife and everyone’s life will be defined by it the way Dresden hit Kurt Vonnegut.
I grew up dirt poor out in the woods. I never had hope.
What was that like?
Extremely depressing, socially isolating, psychologically warping. I’m a responsible, intelligent, ambitious person, but I’m not a functioning human. I’m severely and permanently damaged by poverty, even though I grew up in Canada. I’m 40 but I just managed to start a career about two years ago because I’m borderline unemployable and emotionally unbalanced (I worked my ass off at careers for 20 years, and utterly failed, constant burnout and humiliation, social assistance, moving back into a parents’ tiny apartment). I work remotely which is the only way I can ever hope to maintain a steady job. I can’t maintain normal relationships because I was largely denied social interaction growing up, and my brain can’t cope with social things now. I stopped trying to force myself to learn because it was literally decades of torture that didn’t work. People keep telling me I’m autistic but all the doctors say “nope, you’re just fucked up” (actually they use words like “personality disorder” and PTSD and anxiety disorders and ADHD and other stuff. I have a long list of diagnoses for which no treatment was offered except pills which mostly don’t work, although I’ll admit that ADHD meds helped me get a bunch of work done and also straightened out my brain a little bit. I don’t take them anymore but the positive effects are still with me).
Now, it looks like I’m doing a lot of complaining here. But in truth I’m just describing my “no hope” landscape. Hope sounds like poison. I have things to do, and right now I have a pretty good life.
Yeah that sounds a lot like my current life. I’m 41, broke, can’t keep a job, socializing is painful, country upbringing. Whatever happened in my childhood did something like that to me.
But I was asking what it was like, not so much what outcomes did it have on your adult life. If it’s too painful to relive it you don’t have to, but I was curious. What was it like, when you were a kid?
We moved around a lot, almost always rural. I had a big family so they were always a close crew, but also always very strained and stressed. We had a Nintendo and bicycles. I usually had friends around until I was 11, but then we literally just moved out into the forest where there was nobody else. For 7 awful years I was like in a prison. I lost the ability to communicate, but not the desire. I dreaded the summers because I knew I wouldn’t see a single person outside my family. My parents were constantly stressed, always on a sour mood. The forest was hard on them too. I would mostly try to entertain my siblings amd read books. Depression became the biggest feature of my life. There was just nobody. Then I would go back to school in the fall and I didn’t know how to communicate anymore, and was constantly sad and lonely. But I denied those feelings because I didn’t want to be a bitch.
My very young life was awesome. Until I was maybe 7 or 8 we always had tons of family and friends around, including when we lived in rural villages. We were poor but so was everybody else. But we had to keep moving to chase work, and I always lost those relationships. And then as I described above we moved out to the absolute woods and my brain started to rot. I really have no idea what “hope” could even have looked like.
There were good times too. My siblings and I would explore the forest. We followed a river up a mountain until there was no river anymore (its weird to see it getting smaller and smaller until there’s nothing). We built sledding tracks. We found an abandoned cemetery from the 1700s just in the middle of the forest.
Mostly I just read books. And that’s still what I do.
Thank you for talking online. It might not appear to be much, but it is. You’re connecting and communicating your pain. Hopefully we merry chums can take on some of the burden you feel. Keep going; this is your one shot and it doesn’t have to be noteworthy to anyone but yourself.
Hey man. Thanks. I’m doing well, I’m just countering the idea that millennials en masse had something called “hope.”
Dirt poor Boomers could get lucky. Xers were taught we could escape our heritage through hard work and pluck, and some of us were credulous.
Millennials knew it was BS.
I still work hard because it’s an antidote to despair and depression. It’s a necessity but it does not lead to material reward.
Marketing Exec here. I specialise in generation segmentation. I wrote this recently for my employer:
Gen-Z
Are recession learned, young, with low disposable income and low income. They are in education, are career starters and living at home.
They are lonely, single, and spend 10 hours p/day online (hyper online consumption / always logged in) with the least attention to ads. They are engaged in people-discussing-products-and-services, prefer information over ads, and use ad blockers.
Otherwise known as ‘digital natives’, Gen-Z are highly socially consciousness (body image, cyberbullying, mental health) and highly environmentally conscious. They have a strong focus on saving and responsible spending and are quite frugal. They are study and career minded and prefer money over perks and benefits in employment. They dislike having their time wasted. They have a low attention span.
Millennials
Have long-term debt (mortgage/car/student loan) and have young children. They are not at full purchasing power, are the most adaptable generation ever to pre-and post-technology, are delayed in marriage, delayed in independence, and came of age through globalisation and economic rollercoasters.
They prefer texting/messaging, are high use smartphone users, and sleep with their phone. They are the most active and health conscious generation, environmentally conscious, and the highest consumers of web content. Learning is more compelling than buying to Millennials as they spend an average of 4 hours p/day online or with phone/apps. They prefer advisors, advice, and opinions over a corporate story. They prefer sharing economy (access not ownership). Prefer e-commerce as entertainment.
Millennials are impatient, have reduced brand loyalty, and are extremely tech savvy. They are researchers of ideas, thoughtful and seeking expertise, and love to collaborate and help companies or causes achieve. Online they use acronyms, slang, and respond to authentic but complex language. They prefer honesty and being empowered. They are price aware.
Now do the other generations!
I’ve done them all. It’s my job. Here are the big ones but I could go all day on demographic, psychographic, and technographic segments.
Gen-X
Are nostalgic, middle-aged, family oriented, individual, busy/stressed, and time poor. They are consumers of media and marketing in the evenings and enjoy peace of mind. They apply high value to security and protection, are customer-service centred and insist on value. They are brand loyal.
Entering peak career/positions of power, Gen-X are financially stable. They are newly empty nesters with adult children. They are homeowners with high purchase power.
Gen-X thoroughly research products, rely on businesses as providers of information, and are the highest online information seekers with moderate use of smartphones (3 hours p/day). They prefer text and email and are high social media consumers.
Boomers
Are informed shoppers and prefer reliability of products. Boomers are independent, goal/solution oriented, are value and ROl orientated, careful buyers, and confident. They are less tech savvy (slow adopters of change), and don’t like or understand online trends and language. They prefer helpful and valuable content, no slang, and have a high focus on luxury. They have an attitude of 'the customer is always right’, and have a high use in their children as tech advisors. They are very brand loyal.
Boomers have a high disposable income, work hard and have an excellent work ethic. Now retired or entering retirement, they have grandchildren, are homeowners/investors with very high purchase power. Boomers are the wealthiest generation, set to bequeath $224B in the next two decades.
With a strong focus on health, Boomers spend to be comfortable, are big spenders, and prefer traditional relationships with business and necessary contact. They are high Facebook users, prefer clear and concise language, and spend 5 hours p/day on smartphones. Boomers are print and broadcast media consumers. They are traditional.
Silent Gen
Silent Gen are extremely loyal and expect loyalty in return. They are disciplined, family/community centred, prefer conformity, give and expect respect, are traditional, resilient, determined, very health conscious, and time rich.
Now Grandparents / Great Grandparents, they are retired, downsizing, and social. Silent Gen have an easy-life preference, seek value, are very frugal, and are budgeters. They are almost exclusively analogue and highly self-sacrificial.
It’s tough to generalize, but I think you did a good job here.
As an older Zoomer myself, your description of Gen Z fits me to a T
nods
