removed by mod
No. That’s not what it’s saying. But if that’s your conclusion from it then you’re the exact type of person the post is warning about…
Edit: Ah nevermind. After checking your post history you’re blatantly an alt of someone else in this thread. Not worth engaging with.
removed by mod
K
removed by mod
It doesn’t imply anti-intellectalism from my view, the post says things like Prussian military history and specifically the treaty of Versailles type obsessions, which is quite a bit different than being interested in history like the printing press or indigenous displacement, Spanish Civil War, etc
removed by mod
The post itself says “there are plenty of valid reasons to be into WW2” and says it’s the caution zone, not that you can’t be into it. And anyway, I am pretty sure this wasn’t intended as a literal litmus test for fascist tendencies or something, but a jokey observation of how sometimes the person super into Wermact tactics and technology might probably like them too much
OK hear me out, what if the reason I like WW2 history is because there’s a lot of kicking nazi ass
I like reading about all the spy shit and codebreaking that went on. WWII is really interesting if you’re into the history of computer science and encryption.
Or to write lore accurate day in the life of a 40k human soldier
The WW1 trenches are also very rich with inspiration, and the Napoleonic era Sharpe books have influenced quite a few Black Library books if you want more to read
Thanks for reminding me that I need to finish the Sharpe miniseries.
Ah yes, Sharpe also exists as a movie serie with Sean Bean! That slipped my mind so thanks for the reminder :)
Summary of WW2: “Nazi punks fuck off”.
I’ve noticed that, after a relative lull, people are getting bullied for traditional reasons again. However the bullies code those reasons as deplorable, so that they can imply their targets are just assholes.
removed by mod
Right?
“If you have an interest in a period of history in which bad people lived, it’s probably because you secretly idolize them.”
removed by mod
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make here. Are you suggesting that telling people to be wary of history buffs (after decades of examples of “history buffs” being code for wild bigot/racist) is actually just bullying people who like history? Because if so that’s a gross over exaggeration of what the post is saying. Or are you talking about the Greek mythology thing? Because the tumblr user who posted it is queer and so am I so that conclusion would also be pretty heavily flawed and wrought with heterocentric thinking.
I want to talk to you about the Greek mythology thing for a second: Are you now, or have you ever been a swan?
No comment.
This post is laying the groundwork to say someone is somehow morally compromised for having certain interests. Those interests have been common interests for decades.
Right now, there’s 100 percent a mood that people who are morally compromised deserve to be mistreated.b
The end result of posts like these is nerds being bullied in the same way they used to before the whole anti bullying attitude started. Only this is even worse because the victims get told they are POSes who deserve it.
The Roman one specifically applies to basically every male history nerd. Same with WW2.
deleted by creator
If you instantly judge someone for having extremely common innocuous interests, you’re an asshole.
You do that, but leverage social justice rhetoric to act like you’re actually a good person for doing so.
In was way WAY deep into Greek and Roman Mythology in middle and highschool. I read so many books and stories about them. I’d consider myself straight.
I read Metamorphoses by Ovid in middle school. Not in the original Latin, but I still read it. I also read any and every Greek myth I could get my hands on, and consider Apollo to be the true villain of Oedipus Rex.
And yeah, I’m a fairly firm 0 on the Kinsey scale. You know that Ron White bit about porn? Yeah, I’ll admit to only really liking soft core, and predominately solo models. Also, that side of the business is apparently slightly less toxic, which is a bonus.
I’d consider myself straight.
Reconsider
“I like Viking stuff”
Might be just into Norse mythology. Might be into Nazis.
Or Norwegian were this is legitimate part of our culture and thought in primary school.
I am ex Norwegian Army, and we still use Norse imagery on unit insignias. And half sport tons of Norse ink.
I like this band named Heilung, which has some Viking-ish costumes and lore etc. (although more like Conan’s Hyperborea). They have to put a disclaimer at the start of their videos which is basically a politer version of “Nazi punks fuck off”.
Check out Brothers of Metal!
disclaimer at the start of their videos which is basically a politer version of “Nazi punks fuck off”.
The whole scene has been doing that since what 70 years or so now. After the war some groups of people started seriously wondering about what civilisation is, how it’s very much not rooted in whether or not you wear a suit or not, and started looking for roots. The old Germanic roots were at that time actually out of the question: The Nazis had appropriated and bent them to their brand of insanity, but Karl May existed and with the US there were actual Indians in Germany in the form of GIs. Cultural exchange happened, pretty much unnoticed by the general population, and with that came knowledge: Tradition is not the praying to the ashes, but the passing of the fire, that exchange helped people find genuine embers, small as they were. Once people started to flame the symbols of those embers Nazis came along and wanted to be part of it and promptly were told to fuck off – not just out of a general antifascist stance but also because Nazis, in particular, were the ones who poisoned the little that was left after Christianisation. Then time moved on and a lot happened. Baudrillard, for one. Bear with me:
You might’ve noticed that Heilung doesn’t have Germanic symbology front and left and centre – it’s not about the, or any, symbology. They’re not Asatru or something, their costumes and historical references go back further than the Norse (pretty much as far as they can). About the closest you get is song titles written in runic alphabet and some consistent choices in graphic design looking quite like Nordic carvings – but none of that is religious stuff as-such.
From what I can tell Nazis don’t actually try to get a piece of that particular pie: It’s not to their liking. They like their symbols, their flags to rally around, their fetishes, to distract themselves from realising what they’re actually doing. The “Nazi punks fuck off” part is there for people stumbling across it, vibing with it, and wondering whether it’s kosher. Yes, yes it very much is. They’re plain and simply modern shamans who happen to be history nerds, and western esotericism has been post-structural for long enough now that the lack of symbolic system shouldn’t really surprise, c.f. e.g. Chaos Magick. They write and perform rituals to speak to parts of the psyche that what we call civilisation may have forgotten, but certainly not the genome. That, you know, one great being that was always there.
I loved all the Viking / Norse shit when I was younger. Comics, games, etc, I couldn’t get enough.
But then I started talking to people who followed that aesthetic and was disappointed by exactly 100% of them.
Still love the games. Lost Vikings, Rune, GoW, etc
Maps to the west, assicles, etc.
100% into metal and might have poor hygiene.
Idk how im going to tell my wife im gay
She knows man
removed by mod
Get your boyfriend to tell her boyfriend.
I don’t know how to tell my wife I’m a swan.
But babe, you said you were a carbonari sandwich!!
If her name is Leda, she’ll be cool with it.
Welcome to bisexuality
Can’t tell if it’s funnier if you’re a guy or a gal
I’m into a bunch of different periods of history and historical fiction.
Was also into Greek mythology in middle school and am pansexual.
As someone who just really thinks its cool how an ancient civilization was able to become such a superpower with roads and infrastructure and then fall so harshly. 😢
2024 looks great, right?
It is. It’s impressive to me that the real founders of Christianity were 5 centuries behind their time. St. Paul was 5 centuries after Epicures, Aristotle, and Plato. This is really mind boggling. Imagine if someone from the Columbus voyages time traveled to modern times and within 4 centuries all of Western civilization was in flames mostly due to their actions. Over 99% of the written word of the Greeks and Romans were destroyed by the Church. Is there anything remotely comparable in history?
Roman history is amazing. Everybody hears of Julius Caesar and maybe Trajan and Hadrian but then pretend that nothing happened after that. Like poof, it was dead, inevitable, Franks and Caliphates are now a thing.
Then when you realise how much Rome had to screw itself over to even get to that point while being struck by famines, massive migratory invasions, the huns while still being in a moderately good shape… That’s the good stuff. The story of the fall is a marble being chipped away slowly while telling a beautiful story until there is nothing left of the Western Roman Empire. If Rome had a favorite hobby it would be waging war on itself.
Eastern Roman Empire was alive and kicking until the 1450’s and if you think there’s not much there then look up Justinian’s restoration. They even had horseback archers like the mongols and huns for a while that had to train for many years. Hell, even look at a map that goes back some years pre-caliphate period.
Even as recently as 1912 there were people in the Aegean islands that identified as Roman. I wish there would be a series that would cover the history of Rome properly and not just “CaEsAr KiLlEd gAuLs aNd sExEd cLeOpAtRa” for the billionth time.
Even during “the Decline and Fall” there was plenty going on that was just people living their lives – it’s not like every place was being pillaged and everyone was being slaughtered all at once. And there were plenty of centuries before then full of fascinating history with lessons for today, and that’s just the stuff that we know about.
I want an HBO miniseries on Scipio Africanus vs Hannibal.
Then I want another HBO mini-series on the Flavian dynasty. The eruption of Vesuvius, the first (?) Jewish rebellion, and the questionable conquest of Brittania all happened under Titus. I would love to see a dramatic reenactment of the Romans absolutely losing their minds at how fucking cursed their empire suddenly was.
British history podcast is very nice for the history of Brittania. It covers the whole period and is very accurate.
If it’s “Game of Thrones”-like intrigue the people want, a miniseries about the Severan dynasty would kick ass. Let’s see what we get in just three generations or so:
-Year of the five emperors, with Septimius Severus coming out the victor and establishing the dynasty after a five-way civil war.
-Two brothers, co-emperors, who can’t stand the sight of each other with their mother mediating between them, with one eventually killing the other WITH THEIR MOTHER IN THE ROOM.
-Caracalla then gets killed while on campaign by the brother of a soldier he had executed.
-A grandmother putting a specific grandson on the throne, then changing her mind, having him and her own daughter KILLED and replaced with another grandson & his mother.
-The first grandson being, quite probably, the first trans emperor/ruler in ancient history, with immensely, uh, interesting consequences.
-The “Good” grandson becoming a successful and celebrated emperor, only to be killed by his own troops after trying to buy off peace with the Germanic tribes, thereby kicking off the crisis of the 3rd century which would need several miniseries in and of itself to really tell all its tales…
This is so true, the Severan dynasty is so much more intriguing politically than the Julio-Claudians.
Personally though, I’m sick of historical/fantasy political thrillers. I just want a sort of black comedy set around the Year of the Four Emperors and the Flavians. It’s actually absurd just HOW MUCH goes wrong for Rome, with a lot of it just due to natural phenomena or things out of their control.
“A fucking volcano? You serious??”
off topic.
Look up the old BBC series ‘I, Claudius.’ Based on the Robert Graves novels, Featuring Brian Blessed as Augustus and Patrick Stewart as Sirjanus
I, Claudius is absolutely terrific and I’ve seen it more than once, but it is incredibly historically inaccurate.
Like poof, it was dead
I wish, so much of history (and especially people talking about history) is just recounting Greco-Roman history or trying to embody it. Even American nationalism feels like Roman nationalism v4.3.
I’m rather sick of everyone and everything trying to connect themselves to something roman or greek, then stopping dead. Everyone and their dog has a latin motto, multiple fields are all but written in latin, and that pantheon is the first and often only stop for mythology names; you’d think Caligula was still out there banging his worries away.
Anyway, y’all should look up my boy Gilgamesh.
It’s really a shame that even figures such as the Gracchi brothers (or really any of the pre-Caesar Populares figures) are hardly ever brought up as well, although I guess I can’t be too surprised that radical social reformers are being left out.
I’ve always thought the mid-late Roman Republic was more interesting than the imperial era, and the Gracchi are easily the most fascinating chapter. Noble aristocrats becoming populist ideologues, the increasingly bitter struggle over creaky governmental norms (like their weaponization of the tribunal veto to shut down the city), the introduction of political violence. Very instructive for our current era, imho.
I recently got through “The storm before the storm” by Mike Duncan. Very entertaining, if nothing else, seeing every “that doesn’t sound good” pay off.
Shared this with my wife whose field is classical anthropology
I wish there would be a series that would cover the history of Rome properly
you mean like Mike Duncan’s The History of Rome?
I finished that one. It’s the GOAT history podcast.
Well, maybe you can continue with this then:
https://youtube.com/@TheHistoryofByzantiumPodcast?feature=shared
Robin takes over just when Mike stops. It’s a great podcast and it’s now reached the point right around 1204AD (spoilers)…
Hope you enjoy!
Currently enjoying it a lot, I’m currently at the Macedonian dynasty. Robin is great. :)
I am really interested in WW2 but that is because I think space is cool asf
off topic.
V2 by Robert Harris. A novel about a German engineer and a British codebreaker in opposition.
What about “Here’s an excerpt from a paper I wrote on how the Erfurt Latrine Disaster indirectly lead to the George W. Bush shoeing incident” ?
Then I ask for your hand in marriage
Please post said excerpt, I must read this paper.
OK, so here’s the short version:
Heinrich VI. who presided over the assembly of nobles in Erfurt had his belief in god’s favor shaken to its core by all the lords he invited literally drowning in shit inside a church. He then became Emperor after his predecessor Friedrich I. had drowned in a river while on a crusade, shortly before reaching Jerusalem - another proof that god wasn’t on the Holy Roman Empire’s side.
His lack of faith, on which his own power as god-appointed Emperor was founded, was noticed by everyone around him. So the lords denied his attempt to instate a hereditary monarchy and removed themselves from his court, putting them in a position where they could deny or demand payment for following his commands.
Driven by a deep longing to prove he was still in god’s grace, and to regain absolute power, he believed that his role on earth was to reunite the Eastern and Western church and become the prophecized “Emperor of Peace” who would bring about the end times. To this end, he started campaigning and preparing for another Crusade that would not only reconquer Jerusalem, but also the Byzantine Empire.
His death from Malaria while besieging Messina as staging ground for his crusade put an end to those plans for now, but not to the ideas behind the crusade he had popularized.
When the fourth crusade was launched just 5 years later, the most experienced crusading knights would have been veterans of his misguided campaign, and when it became clear that they couldn’t pay for the passage to the Holy Land, they would have been the ones to propose to conquer the Byzantine Empire instead as another valid target, just as their former Emperor had proposed. As we all know, the following sack of Constantinople destroyed the will of the church and the Christian states to unite and put any real effort into another crusade from that point on.
The next German Emperor didn’t even participate in the Fifth crusade and delayed participation in the Sixth for so long he got excommunicated. From then on, any further crusades were called by individual kings, not the pope in the name of all Christendom.
The Muslim rule over the middle east was secure for the coming centuries, the Byzantine Empire never recovered, and the Ottoman Empire rose into the power vacuum and eventually conquered it.Which leads us to Baghdad. The center of Islamic culture during its heyday and for centuries after, a shining beacon of civilization more developed than the attacking Crusader states. You have to understand what such a history does to the self-image of the inhabitants. And at the crossroads between Europe, Africa and Asia, it was easy to see the region as the center of the world. Due to the aforementioned rise of the Ottoman Empire and its incorporation of today’s Iraq, the land became part of one of the greatest Empires in history.
Until after a period of declining importance and influence, the British conquered the Ottoman Empire as well as Baghdad and drew their own borders in the sand, the US-lead league of nations sanctioned the new borders imposed on the people, and called the cobbled-together country “Iraq”, an entity with no regard for its history or former glory, and under western rule for the first time in a millennium.
It’s a logical conclusion that Iraq would eventually unite with their neighbors and throw off the British rule, but also that without historic precedent (due to being part of a Muslim empire for so long), they wouldn’t have the experience to establish a stable democracy. One coup d’etat followed another, which always pushes the most ruthless leaders to power. And that was the Baath party. They promised freedom and a new, pan-Arabic union that would end western rule, which the pan-Islamic unions of the past had failed at.
But also within the party, the most ruthless used the chaos to rise to power, and Saddam Hussein solidified his position by first killing those Baathists that didn’t support him, then thousands of his own citizens, and then starting a war, which threatened US influence in the region enough to eventually topple him - in a war that created so much anger and suffering that one man, Muntadhar al-Zaidi, saw no other way to vent his anger than to throw his shoes at the leader of the western world.Brilliant, I hope it got published.
“The sengoku period is so interesting”: this person is a massive weeb. I would know.
“I’ve read the Book of Five Rings”
This person is a weeb who likes swords
Me learning the names of the involved warlords with Pokémon…
How many animes have you seen with Oda Nobunaga in them?
Actually him and not a cute or buff girl with his name? None.
For real though you should read: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Manga/SengokuKomachiKurouTan
Not the answer I was looking for, but just as telling
*sweating* Haha yeah, I also enjoyed that new Dragonball z movie.
WW1 enthusiasts waiting desperately to be referenced just one time ever:
There, now they’ve been referenced. Never again.
Scrolling through the comments.
I like OP, this is my kind of person. Knowing stuff because it’s just fun and interesting to know stuff, and being willing to engage, share, and correct.
I need more of this on the fediverse.
So you’re saying I’m weird because I love history for history’s sake and not any particular political reason?
I am interested in the world wars, among many other things. Everything from 1940s/50s Hollywood scandal and crime to The Bronze Age Collapse and lots of other stuff in between.
I majored in Near Eastern Classical Archaeology, but I never equated any of it with particular personal beliefs.
So you’re saying I’m weird because I love history for history’s sake and not any particular political reason?
Literally no. The first group of people is exactly what you’re describing.
Nah I am pretty sure we all know what you were saying. Go ahead and backtrack some more, it is amusing how you are aborting your own position.
Hyperdefensiveness looks really bad. We all like stuff that has terrible fan bases. I’m into anime/manga/manhwa, video games, and I do enjoy history and learning from it. I so know many people who share the same description who are straight up nazis, misogynists, incels, etc.
If this is like the MIAC report, where it noted data on both right wing and left wing domestic terrorists and some of their tendencies. For left wing it mentioned environmentalists, socialists, communists etc. For right wing it mentioned 2A, Ron Paul, sovereign city, tax protestors etc.
In no way for either side did it say that having those tendencies was the same as being a terrorist, just that they tend to have those interests. Right wing grifters and broadcasters lost their fucking .inds to the point this fact based report had to be retracted.
If you can’t acknowledge your interests have terrible fan bases as well as good and upstanding ones, it makes you look like the terrible one angry at being called out.
It is not on the person being stereotyped to justify themselves. Like what you like, study what you want to study and don’t bully a person for being a nerd about something.
Seriously, is this the position you and OP want to be in? You want people to be walking on earth and feeling bad because they studied some subject and presumably were a bit happy because of it? You want to feel good about taking a harmless pleasure from someone else, and for what exactly? Because you didn’t understand it and felt dumb for a moment. Go look in a mirror and maybe reconsider your life.
Wow, you are amazing at missing the point. So let’s ask this, are there any people who like the same things as you that are horrible people? I’ll answer for me, you betcha. Are there people who like the same things as me who are better people than me? Again yes.
Can you say the same? Can you acknowledge that?
You are arguing with a troll. Save your effort. Every single comment of theirs on this post is low effort nonsense or open harassment. Just block them and move on with your life.
removed by mod
I don’t have to acknowledge jack or shit. If you think that everyone who knows about WW2 is a Nazi it isn’t on me to “not all” you. It is on you for not being able to process that other people know things that you do not.
never drop your guard though
Literally yes, they explicitly say the history buff still shouldn’t be trusted.
Literally no. They do not say a history buff shouldn’t be trusted. They say do not drop your guard when getting to know them initially. This is a pretty safe and reasonable course of action for getting to know any human. History buff is irrelevant to that statement.
removed by mod
Crazy, considering the words that precede them are they are likely safe.
If you think that’s trust you’re a broken human being.