a “civilization” that involves “money” is simply not civilized.
shut up, you’re fucking wrong. it said so in the post.
Subscription service is really convenient.
Lilo and Stitch is the best Disney movie.
Many, many spoilers below. But, seriously, this movie is 21 years old. Get over yourselves.
Check it: a young girl adopts an illegal alien (killing machine from deep space) and protects him from the U.S. (and galactic) government (Military-Industrial complexes), while keeping her incredibly depressed sister (slices both ways) from giving up completely as they keep their Indigenous Hawaiian family together in their co-opted homeland. One sister works a series of dead-end tourism jobs; the other has anger issues. The hate each other and love each other fiercely, though they are about 12 years apart in age.
Oh, yeah, and their parents are dead.
Meanwhile, the alien is a political refugee and freedom fighter fleeing from his own people who want him dead for —get this— existing. A lab-grown, indestructible terrorist, he seeks asylum on an island — but he can’t swim.
He does learn to surf.
The only downside to this film is that Disney produced it. And Elvis.
“Ohana means family. Nobody gets left behind or forgotten.”
Huh. I think I need to watch this.
Lilo being strangely obsessed with Elvis is actually period accurate.
The movie seems to be set sometime in the very late '80s to the mid to late '90s. There aren’t any cell phones, except the ones that the government agents have. The TV is a black and white TV which could indicate either the late '80s or the fact that they are extremely poor in the mid to late '90s. None of the vehicles really give anything away as they all seem to be modeled on '50s to early '80s models of cars. The technology that is actually depicted in the film definitely places it at the end of the '80s, as the earliest it could have possibly happened, and probably the mid to late '90s as a more probable timeline.
There were a lot of people obsessed with “The King” at that time, even fairly young (like 5-7 year old) fans. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that Elvis’s music is generally more popular amongst certain kids and tweens from 1956 until the late '90s.
Point of further support: Hawaiians have a weird (to us haoles) love of Las Vegas, going as far as to call it “the Ninth Island”. I mean, if you live on a tropical paradise, where are you supposed to go for vacation?
And Elvis is (or at least has a rep as being) super popular and iconic in Vegas. I could definitely see some of that influence back flowing from the Ninth Island back to Hawaii.
US Senators and congressmen are underpaid. Their salaries should be doubled. The president should make at least a $1 million a year, directly paid by taxpayers.
Reason: If I, the taxpayer, pay them, then they have to work for me. The payment makes that service relationship explicit. I pay you, you work for me. And, yes, the current pay is too little, $174,000 - barely comparable to tech workers.
Only taking $1 is an invitation for corruption. (Not claiming it happened, but it is an invitation.)
All streets should have a speed limit of 20 mph. All roads 35 mph. Highways 50 mph. Stroads should not exist.
Less than 50% of the opinions in this thread are in any way unpopular.
There. There’s my opinion.
8÷2(2+2) comes out to 16, not 1.
Saw it posted on Instagram or Facebook or somewhere and all of the top comments were saying 1. Any comment saying 16 had tons of comments ironically telling that person to go back to first grade and calling them stupid.
Math should be taught with postfix notation and this wouldn’t be an issue. It turns your expression into this.
8 2 ÷ 2 2 + ×It already isn’t an issue if people just follow all the rules of Maths.
And both you and people arguing that it’s 1 would be wrong.
This problem is stated ambiguously and implied multiplication sign between 2 and ( is often interpreted as having priority. This is all matter of convention.
I see what you’re getting at but the issue isn’t really the assumed multiplication symbol and it’s priority. It’s the fact that when there is implicit multiplication present in an algebraic expression, and really best practice for any math above algebra, you should never use the ‘÷’ symbol. You need to represent the division as a numerator and denominator which gets rid of any ambiguity since the problem will explicitly show whether (2+2) is modifying the numerator or denominator. Honestly after 7th grade I can’t say I ever saw a ‘÷’ being used and I guess this is why.
That said, I’ll die on a hill that this is 16.
I’ll die on a hill that this is 16
There is another example where the pemdas is even better covered than a simple parenthetical multiplication, but the answer there is the same: It’s the arbitrary syntax, not the math rules.
You guys are both correct. It’s 16 and the problem is a syntax that implies a wrong order of operations. The syntax isn’t wrong, either, just implicative in your example and seemingly arbitrary in the other example I wish I remembered.
Do you not understand that syntax is its own set of rules?
Do you not understand that syntax is its own set of rules?
Yes, the rules of Maths, as I was already saying. I’m a Maths teacher. I take it you didn’t read the link then.
both you and people arguing that it’s 1 would be wrong
No, they’re correct Order of operations thread index
This problem is stated ambiguously and implied multiplication
It’s not ambiguous, there’s no such thing as implicit multiplication
This is all matter of
…following the rules of Maths.
A matter of convention: true
Unless you specify you aren’t using pemdas, that’s generally the assumed order of ops.
This is not one of the ambiguous ones, but it’s certainly written to be. Multiplication does indeed have priority under pemdas.
A matter of convention: true
False. Actual rules of Maths
This is not one of the ambiguous ones
There aren’t any ambiguous ones - #MathsIsNeverAmbiguous
8÷2(2+2) comes out to 16, not 1
No, it’s 1, and only 1. Order of operations thread index
P.S. this is Year 7 Maths, not Year 1.
2(4) is not exactly same as 2x4.
2(4) is not exactly same as 2x4
Correct! It’s exactly the same as (2x4).
No. No. You choose to be ignorant.
Ummm, I was agreeing with you??
Anyways, I’m a Maths teacher who has taught this topic many times - what would I know?
Back in gradeschool I was always taught that in Pemdas, the parenthesis are assumed to be there in 8÷(2×(2+2)) where as 8÷2×(2+2) would be 16, 8÷2(2+2) is the above and equals 1.
Not quite. It’s true you resolve what’s inside the parentheses first, giving you. 8÷2(4) or 8÷2x4.
Now this is what gets most people. Even though Multiplication technically comes before Division the Acronym PEMDAS, that’s really just to make it sound correct phonetically. Really they have equal priority in the order of operations and the appropriate way to resolve the problem is to work from left to right solving each multiplication or division sign as you encounter them. Giving you 16. Same for addition and subtraction.So basically the true order of operations is:
- Work left to right solving anything inside parentheses
- Work left to right solving any exponentials
- Work left to right solving any multiplication or division
- Work left to right solving any addition or subtraction
Source: Mechanical Engineering degree so an unfortunate amount of my life spent in math and physics classes.
Absolutely, its all seen as equal so it has to go left to right However as I said in the beginning the way I was taught atleast, is when you see 2(2+2) and not 2×(2+2) you assume that 2(2+2) actually means (2×(2+2 )) and so must do it together.
Ah sorry just realized what you were saying. I’ve never been taught that. Maybe it’s just a difference in teaching styles, but it shouldn’t be since it can actually change the outcome. The way I was always taught was if you see a number butted up against an expression in parentheses you assume there is a multiplication symbol there.
So you were taught that 2(2+2) == (2(2+2))
I was taught 2(2+2)==2*(2+2)Interesting difference though because again, assuming invisible parentheses can really change up how a problem is done.
Edit: looks like theshatterstone54’s comment assumed a multiplication symbol as well.
if you see a number butted up against an expression in parentheses you assume there is a multiplication symbol there
No, it means it’s a Term (product). If a=2 and b=3, then axb=2x3, but ab=6.
I was taught 2(2+2)==2*(2+2)
2(2+2)==(2*(2+2)). More precisely, The Distributive Law says that 2(2+2)=(2x2+2x2).
It’s true you resolve what’s inside the parentheses first, giving you. 8÷2(4) or 8÷2x4.
Not “inside parenthesis” (Primary School, when there’s no coefficient), “solve parentheses” (High School, The Distributive Law). Also 8÷2(4)=8÷(2x4) - prematurely removing brackets is how a lot of people end up with the wrong answer (you can’t remove brackets unless there is only 1 term left inside).
Yes, it’s The Distributive Law.
Great explainer on the subject: https://youtu.be/lLCDca6dYpA?si=gUJlQJgfDxi-n_Y6
And a follow up on how calculators actually implement this inconsistently: https://youtu.be/4x-BcYCiKCk?si=g5pqwXvBqSS8Q5fX
Both of those Youtubes debunked in this thread.
Under normal interpretations of pemdas this is simply wrong, but it’s ok. Left to right only applies very last, meaning the divisor operator must literally come after 2(4).
This isn’t really one of the ambiguous ones but it’s fair to consider it unclear.
This isn’t really one of the ambiguous ones but it’s fair to consider it unclear.
#MathsIsNeverAmbiguous if you follow all the rules of Maths (there’s a lot of people here who aren’t).
Pemdas puts division and multiplication on the same level, so 34/22 is 12 not 3. Implicit multiplication is also multiplication. It’s a question of convention, but by default, it’s 16.
Implicit multiplication is also multiplication
There’s no such thing as implicit multiplication. The answer is 1.
I don’t know what you’re on about with your distributive law thing. That just states that
a*(b + c) = a*b + a*c, and has literally no relation to notation.And “math is never ambiguous” is a very bold claim, and certainly doesn’t hold for mathematical notation. For some simple exanples, see here: https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1024280/most-ambiguous-and-inconsistent-phrases-and-notations-in-maths#1024302
That just states that a*(b + c) = ab + ac
No, The Distributive Law states that a(b+c)=(ab+ac), and that you must expand before you simplify.
For some simple exanples,
Examples by people who simply don’t remember all the rules of Maths. Did you read the answers?
Please learn some math before making more blatantly incorrect statements. Quoting yourself as a source is… an interesting thing to do.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributive_property
I did read the answers, try doing that yourself.
Please learn some math
I’m a Maths teacher - how about you?
Quoting yourself as a source
I wasn’t. I quoted Maths textbooks, and if you read further you’ll find I also quoted historical Maths documents, as well as showed some proofs.
I didn’t say the distributive property, I said The Distributive Law. The Distributive Law isn’t ax(b+c)=ab+ac (2 terms), it’s a(b+c)=(ab+ac) (1 term), but inaccuracies are to be expected, given that’s a wikipedia article and not a Maths textbook.
I did read the answers, try doing that yourself
I see people explaining how it’s not ambiguous. Other people continuing to insist it is ambiguous doesn’t mean it is.
Incorrect, pemdas puts multiplication before division.
I always thought pemdas was more like P/E/MD/AS with MD and AS occurring left to right
This is how I was taught, but also people don’t really use the ÷ symbol in algebra beyond like 6th grade
people don’t really use the ÷ symbol in algebra beyond like 6th grade
Yes they do, just pick up a high school Maths textbook (in a country which uses obelus rather than colon).
And “Multiplication” refers literally to multiplication signs, of which there are none in this question.
Let’s see.
8÷2×(2+2) = 8÷2×4
At this point, you solve it left to right because division and multiplication are on the same level. BODMAS and PEMDAS were created by teachers to make it easier to remember, but ultimately, they are on the same level, meaning you solve it left-to-right, so…
8÷2×4 = 4×4 = 16.
So yes, it does equal 16.
Under pemdas divisor operators must literally be completed after multiplication. They are not of equal priority unless you restructure the problem to be of multiplication form, which requires making assumptions about the intent of the expression.
Okay, let me put it in other words: Pemdas and bodmas are bullshit. They are made up to help you memorise the order of operations. Multiplication and division are on the same level, so you do them linearly aka left to right.
Pemdas and bodmas are not bullshit, they are a standard to disambiguate expression communication. They are order of operations. Multiplication and division are not on the same level, they are distinct operations which form the identity when combined with a multiplication.
Similarly, log(x) and e^x are not the same operation, but form identity when composited.
Formulations of division in algebra allow it to be at the same priority as multiplication by restructuring it as multiplication, but that requires formulating the expression a particular way. The ÷ operator however is strictly division. That’s its purpose. It’s not a fantastic operator for common usage because of this.
There are valid orders of operations, such as depmas which I just made up which would make the above expression extremely ambiguous. Completely mathematically valid, order of ops is an established convention, not mathematical fact.
This comment is the epitome of being confidently wrong on the internet.
confidently wrong on the internet
I made a hashtag for people #LoudlyNotUnderstandingThings :-)
For one misinterpretation? Are you sure about that?
There was 3 misinterpretations - see my reply to them.
They are order of operations
No, they’re not.
Multiplication and division are not on the same level
Yes, they are.
they are distinct operations which form the identity when combined with a multiplication
In other words, they are the inverse operation of each other - welcome to why they have the same precedence.
order of ops is an established convention, not mathematical fact
It’s a mathematical fact.
Under pemdas divisor operators must literally be completed after multiplication
Not literally. It’s only a mnemonic, not the actual rules.
They are not of equal priority
Yes, they are. Binary operators have equal precedence, and unary operators have equal precedence.
8÷2×(2+2)
But that’s not the same thing as 8÷2(2+2). 2x(2+2) is 2 Terms, 2(2+2) is 1 Term. 8÷2×(2+2)=16 ((2+2) is in the numerator), 8÷2(2+2)=1 (2(2+2) is in the denominator)
Depends on whether you’re a computer or a mathematician.
2(2+2) is equivalent to 2 x (2+2), but they are not equal. Using parenthesis implicitly groups the 2(2+2) as part of the paretheses function. A computer will convert 2(4) to 2 x 4 and evaluate the expression left to right, but this is not what it written. We learned in elementary school in the 90s that if you had a fancy calculator with parentheses, you could fool it because it didn’t know about implicit association. Your calculator doesn’t know the difference between 2 x (2+2) and 2(2+2), but mathematicians do.
Of course, modern mathematicians work primarily in computers, where the legacy calculator functions have become standard and distinctions like this have become trivial.
A computer will convert 2(4) to 2 x 4
Only if that’s what the programmer has programmed it to do, which is unfortunately most programmers. The correct conversion is 2(4)=(2x4).
in the 90s that if you had a fancy calculator with parentheses, you could fool it because it didn’t know about implicit association. Your calculator doesn’t know the difference between 2 x (2+2) and 2(2+2), but mathematicians do
Actually it’s only in the 90’s that some calculators started getting it wrong - prior to that they all gave correct answers.
It seems you are partly correct. You are correct in saying that this is how it used to be done (but that was 100 years ago, it seems) and you are correct that in modern times, this would be interpreted as I did it, above.
Link: https://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/2019/07/31/what-is-8-÷-22-2-the-correct-answer-explained/
I’m old but I’m not that old.
The author of that article makes the mistake of youth, that because things are different now that the change was sudden and universal. They can find evidence that things were different 100 years ago, but 50 years ago there were zero computers in classrooms, and 30 years ago a graphing calculator was considered advanced technology for an elementary age student. We were taught the old math because that is what our teachers were taught.
Early calculators couldn’t (or didn’t) parse edge cases, so they would get this equation wrong. Somewhere along the way, it was decided that it would be easier to change how the equation was interpreted rather than reprogram every calculator on earth, which is a rational decision I think. But that doesn’t make the old way wrong, anymore than it makes cursive writing the wrong way to shape letters.
it was decided that it would be easier to change how the equation was interpreted
No, it wasn’t. The claim that the rules were changed is a debunked myth.
No, that video is wrong. Not only that, if you check the letter he referenced Lennes’ Letter, you’ll find it doesn’t support his assertion that the rules changed at all! And that’s because they didn’t change. Moral of the story Always check the references.
No, 2+2 = 🐟 so it would be 8÷2🐟 and since 🐟 is no longer a number it becomes 4🐟. So the answer is 4 fishes.
since 🐟 is no longer a number
It’s still a pronumeral though, equal to 4, so the answer is still 8÷8=1.
Copyright should have stayed the original initial 14 years with possible renewal to 28 years. But like in France back then, also include the original authors (last one alive, if several) lifespan. Hence, a copyright would last either the authors lifespans or 28 years, whichever is longer.
Moreover, the patent system is being abused and does not serve the original goal of “any useful art, manufacture, engine, machine, or device, or any improvement there on not before known or used.” It granted the applicant the “sole and exclusive right and liberty of making, constructing, using and vending to others to be used” of his invention.. It needs major changes, including the requirement to have the “invention” be under examination by reputable third-party laboratories (such as Intertek, SGI, Underwriters Laboratories, National Institute of Standards and Technology, Technischer Überwachungsverein, SGS - Société Générale de Surveillance, etc…) before being granted a patent. Nowadays, patents are given almost willy-nilly to anyone no matter how vague or obvious the supposed invention.
Nowadays, patents are being misused in Patent Ambush mechanisms and scenarios, meanwhile Patent Trolls and Hoarders whole existence is are to impede/obstruct legally and impose exorbitant levies/fees onto organization and companies actually innovating and developing useful art/process/devices. Even more incredible, there are Submarine Patents being hidden away to suddenly take hostage existing products and process of various companies by imposing extortionate royalties.
Timezones are fucking stupid. Everyone should just use UTC or Zulu
Wait am I supposed to upvote this or down vote if I agree?
Yes.
As a seafarer who moves through the world, arguing out of timezones is an uphill battle. (Minus the half hour timezone insanity.)
Daylight savings on the other hand, can be dropped like the smelly turd it is.
Timezones are stupid and using European as the reference is imperialistic. Every clock should be set to the time calibrate where I live.
An opinion so strongly shared by a vast majority is worth being sceptic about.
This is how you get flat earthers.
No, the one saying “you’re all wrong” was the first person to say the world is round. Even a minority of one can be correct about something against all popular opinion.
Monogamy feels like an archaic social convention enforced by unhealthy possessive behaviors and jealousy
All drugs should be legalized. Not quiet the whole World but a large portion.
Doing drugs should be decriminalized, but not legal. Ideally when someone is found addicted to drugs they would be provided help rather than punishment. Selling drugs should remain criminal but consequences should be determined based on the amount found selling and to who (like a child or someone who’s pregnant would be a higher penalty at the discretion of the court), legalizing would just give a tax incentive for pushing drugs similar to gambling.
Edit: I want to clarify, I’m talking about addictive drugs with known negative health effects like meth. Weed can be legal, who cares.
Andor was a garbage show, and The Batman (Robert Pattison) was a garbage film. Both are lauded and deserve less than none of the praise they get
Blue Cheese is the king of cheese
Death is fine and jail is mental torture. People with downs syndrome and similar are forced to live a tortured existence by people who think they’re good for subjective them to that.
