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“We made this shitty thing legal, so you can’t disagree with it. Checkmate athieists”
When I was that age I was mowing lawns to pay for my video arcade habit. This is probably safer
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No one is attacking the child, but the fact that children have to work. If children have to do anything, that’s to learn and to have fun. I’m sorry about what you had to go through, but saying that such a situation is wrong is actually attacking the system, not criticizing the people choosing the lesser evils available to them.
You can attack the system and while you do that, there are people under 18 years old who are just trying to provide for themselves or their dependents and need a job now.
They have adult responsibilities before the age of 18. A lot of the commenters outright refuse to believe that these legal minors could have possibly matured earlier than the law expects, but that really does happen and it really is socially irresponsible to ignore their struggle.
Most commenters are essentially holding this series of positions based on a photo that is out of context: Why does this kid have a job? The system is bad. Why is the system bad? Some kids have jobs. How can we stop kids from working? We should outlaw jobs for kids.
But that series of positions critically fails to account for exceptions where kids become competent before the age of 18, need jobs and want to work.
It ignores that, in reality, many minors have kids of their own or other dependents that they are struggling to support and it does not provide any plan for them, it makes their situation worse while you fight the system.
That is inhumane public policy. Like many areas of law, this is a complicated issue, and we are going to harm people in our communities if we jump to strict authoritarian control for an answer.
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100%
This comment deserves an award. Mods should pin it to the top of the thread, because the majority of comments are totally divorced from their neighbors’ struggle to survive in our imperfect economy.
She pressed the little pictogram squares on her till. (Literacy was no longer a requirement for employment in these restaurants. Smiling was.)
Good reference to a great book. Anyone who hasn’t read it, should. In a similar vein, anyone who hasn’t watched the streaming adaptation with Martin Sheen and David Tennant is in for a very nice surprise!
Martin Sheen!?
That’s President Kennedy, you idiot!
Well same difference! He played Kennedy once!
Next, companies are going to start recruiting at Day Care centers lmfao
When I was 13 I was ‘encouraged’ by my family to get a job. I had no interest. They pulled some strings and I began illegally working (14 was the legal age) for a small family diner. At this time I just wanted to fiddle on my tech as I was very nerdy, but my family didn’t want me to “stay in my room all the time,” so pointless labour it was.
I did appreciate the liberation I gained from my family, even if I didn’t have the knowledge of what to do with it; How to expand upon it. Probably for the best imo. I spent my whole first paycheck on some games that me and my homies would play in the garage and made great memories. If there was a life lesson to be learned during this whole experience, I never understood it at the time. Eventually I was let go from work since no-one taught me how to perform my job duties well enough. That’s life, though!
By luck, one of my caring high-school teachers managed to slip-in his own curriculum. He taught a class of ~15 students some important financial skills… how mortgages work… how to create and manage savings… credit building… Bunch of important life stuff that I would consider essential knowledge in our society was an optional course I learned through word-of-mouth/happenstance.
???
why
Meanwhile and my ultimate gripe with this thread and tying this back into a dystopian - I see some people mention they learned valuable life lessons and a bunch of other copium. Witness me and your kin around you. Is the knowledge you gained - the wisdom acquired through action and experience - is it gained through labour? No. I didn’t and others didn’t either. Can it be taught safely without forcing children with a young developing brain into dangerous work environments? Yes. I gained such wisdom later from the safety and comfort of my school. And we rest on the final point with a question:
How many opportunities in the common layman eye are there for children to receive education on the matter?
If your experience had 1 or more, I’d love for you to share such experiences here as it’s eye-opening to those who received and did not receive such privilege. I’m certainly interested! :)
As someone who was pulled out of school at 14 and sent to work rebuilding old houses and breaking my back for $100 a week, education is where it’s at.
Appalachia is a whole different world (especially 25-30 years ago, the internet is changing it though).
The dude I worked for was molesting little girls and using the boys to stand up for him in court later to talk about how great he was. Unfortunately (for him that is) he made some mistakes and didn’t get our support, but boy he tried.
I remember one time he took us to the lake. He said, “I’m psychic, you know. I know things that no one else knows.” I replied, “there’s no such thing. Prove it.” He said, “Ok, when you and Regina sat on the train tracks and you ate her pussy and she sucked your dick. I just seen that in my mind.” He blew my mind in that moment.
I grew up and realized, Regina put my penis in her mouth because someone was teaching her that shit. I put my mouth on her vagina because she instructed me to do it. She did so because someone taught her this stuff. We were 11 and 9.
I know that’s disturbing and I’m sorry.
Kids shouldn’t be handed over to strange adults to work. If I’m not proof of that I don’t know what is.
Holy shit, man, you okay?
Oh yeah. Life is great these days bud. Thank you for asking.
As someone who was pulled out of school at 14 and sent to work rebuilding old houses and breaking my back for $100 a week, education is where it’s at.
I’m just gonna say if they got me building houses for a day or two each week, I would’ve loved that shit and might’ve stayed in school.
The rest of the story is beyond me.
How old are you now?
So many Americans in here defending this, get a clue you idiots.
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I’m Australian and this reminds me of working at the local fish and.chip store when I was 12. I asked the local general store, but they’d only pay me to do odd jobs, the local bakery said no,.and the local fish and.chip shop said I could help take orders and.package meals during their busy hours each evening.
My Lego collection grew, I got real good at Time Crisis 3, and I went to see a movie each Saturday. It was awesome. I didn’t see it any different to scoring cash for mowing lawns or washing cars, just stable and they appreciated my help so I felt good too.
If you’d told me I wasn’t allowed, I’d have done it behind your back and said I was going to friend’s houses.
I don’t know why, but paper boys (yes we were all boys) were some sort of exception to child labour laws. I was selling newspapers when I was 12-13 for 5c ea.
The 80s was a wild place.
And what about those assholes that never wanted to pay? Just pay the kid you cheap ass. I see your cars, your lights are on, I know you’re home motherfucker.
I identified so hard with that “I want my two dollars” kid from Better Off Dead.
One of my customers went and died owing me 80c. I just took the loss. But it would have been hilarious to see some young kid chasing the estate for his debt!
Honestly it’s the uniform for me. It implies so much like maybe that kids gotta punch in with a time card of has their pay docked.
Amen.
Got money, bought a PC my parents couldn’t afford, learned to code, got a desk job.
Taught me life skills too, like dealing with dickhead managers and customers, time keeping, and just general responsibility.
Cool story mate!
Lots of people are fine with bad things they grew up with because it didn’t personally affect them.
Do you think kids shouldn’t be allowed to work in any capacity? What if they are self employed? Is that wrong even if they want to?
Yes, and yes.
I think children should be free to focus on more important things than working.
Do you think we should send the kids back to the mines? Some of them might prefer to be out of school. What if they’re a self-employed mine owner?
Do you think we should send the kids back to the mines?
Well, I’m not fucking going down there.
Your example is very extreme. Having an after school part time job as you’re growing up will prepare you for quite a bit, and set us apart from our peers that didn’t work, and instead wasted their days after school or on the weekends. I take it you never worked growing up ? It’s building essential life skills, not inhaling noxious fumes working 16 hr days in mines, this isn’t the 1800’s. I loved flipping burgers and making a paycheck at 15
If by wasted days you mean cherished childhood memories then sure
I wasn’t sure where I stood on this and read a lot of comments.
One thing that seems common is that many of those who worked young seem to think it made them better than the other kids somehow. They “wasted” their summer, while you built “essential life skills” unlike the person you’re replying to, who did not? Are you still “set apart” from the person you replied to?
I might think getting thrown into the system at a younger age is the real waste of life. I’ve had a job since I was 15, but I really don’t think it made me better than anyone.
It didn’t make me “better” but from talking to people I went to college with (that didn’t get jobs early), I’d definitely say I was more prepared for the workforce.
Also having money was dope and my fast food job was fun. I still enjoyed my life and summer outside of work, even more so because I could afford to do and get shit that my parents might not have been able to give me. It’s not an all or nothing deal it’s just a different life experience. I think it would be infantilizing to take the choice away from teenagers, though it is important to regulate it as shitty people will take advantage of it.
They wouldn’t call them minors if they didn’t like it.
Based and perfect-response-pilled
I think children should be free to focus on more important things than working.
“Freedom” to do what you want them to and nothing more, not even to earn it over summer break or learn the value of money.
Fuck 'em, just wait until they get out of highschool at 18 before they ever even see real money and have no idea how any of it works, who the predators are, and what the risk is.
They completely missed an entire part of my initial comment that started this tangent.
Literally, it was all my idea and what I wanted to do.
“Children should be free to focus on things.”
12 year old me: “Cool! I want to work at the local fish and chip store and they already said it’s okay, pleeeeease?.”
“NO!!!”
This place is insane sometimes. In their heads they’re thinking children being forced into labor, obviously that’s not what we’re talking about here. I had various gigs I did as a kid to earn some extra money, snow shoveling in the winter, mowing in the summer, I’m doing much better financially than my peers. Most of the guys I was in the military with were losing their whole paychecks just days after getting them, never having that much money in their lives. No one ever taught them and they never developed the skills on their own.
Say what you will, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with letting a kid work in an entrepreneur kind of fashion or in limited capacity like what you did on weekends, summer break, etc.
You can’t raise someone into an adult if you hand them the keys for the first time on their 18th birthday. Most of us learn by doing and it’s best to get the hands on experience.
Fuck 'em, just wait until they get out of highschool at 18 before they ever even see real money and have no idea how any of it works, who the predators are, and what the risk is.
Why is this worse than the literal same thing at a younger age?
I think there’s a line somewhere and for me the line is whether the job is suitable for children. Like, doing chores around the house or on your grandparents’ farm. Paper route riding a bike. I worked summers at a carnival, and at a pool when I was a bit older. Low physical labor, low responsibility, low customer interaction, family friendly environments. You’re right it should never interfere with education.
If I saw a kid at the register of a fast food place or a store, I would turn around immediately and never return. Just leaves a bad taste in one’s mouth.
Sometimes I read comments online and initially think they’re sarcastic but then realise the person’s serious and flexing way above their capacity, usually by straw manning. And here’s one of those moments…
Do you think we should send the kids back to the mines?
facepalm
About as much as you think the police should be shutting down lemonade stands.
First of all, I generally agree with you that child labor such as in the OP is bad.
That being said, responding to people who had positive experiences with it in their own lives by jumping directly to sending then to the mines is absolutely fucking insane. They are not the same thing.
I had a paper route when I was 12.
The work itself wasn’t important but learning responsibility and the value of money was important.
It was the first time I did anything completely on my own without being directed in some way by a parent, teacher, coach, etc. Without that job and after-school/summer jobs I had when I was older there is a good chance I would have made poor financial decisions in early adulthood.
With 18 year-olds getting credit cards shoved in their face the day they show up for orientation, after probably signing up for student loans, it’s probably a good idea for them to have earned money on their own for a while.
I don’t understand the people down voting you. Having a job growing up taught me a lot of responsibility and how to manage my own money and act in a professional environment. Invaluable skills that you wouldn’t get anywhere else, certainly not school
These jobs you are speaking of–washing cars, mowing lawns, even kids working in their parents’ store–do you think that is the same as working for a multinational conglomerate handling food with no breaks and minimum wage?
You can learn valuable skills like how to replace the roof of a house.
Right?
Learning things a little at a time, when the stakes are low/non-existent is the way to go. From early teens to partway through college when you get an off campus apartment you can learn how to apply for a job, how to interview, responsibility, managing your money, responsible credit use, professionalism, bill paying. All this over the course of years, with a support system when you make mistakes (hopefully).
I guess some people think you should just have all that dropped on you like a ton of bricks the day after you get a diploma.
I’m American and I totally agree. It feels like there are two different countries here, with the red one generally mooching off of the blue one while simultaneously claiming they’re the “real America”. I’m so tired.
There’s hardly anything to defend because there’s nothing here other than a photo with zero confirmed information about what appears in the photo. People are just making baseless assumptions.
No, only people from the USA.
No way to downvote your stupid ass enough.
Haha okay dumbarse.
Go love child labour some more, maybe enough kids b working low wage jobs and you’ll be a successful nation instead of the failure you are now.
Yeah this is just going to make them soft. Send the little shits to the miners, like in the good old days!
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I don’t get why you’re downvoted. The French would have brought out the guilotines by now. The threshold for warranting violence has LONG been crossed by European standards
Not sure where you’re getting your info, but 14 year olds can legally work (with some restrictions) in France. Some EU countries have a minimum age of 13. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_working_age
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That kid looks 10. You got their ID?
Idk my comment got deleted. Guess child labor is okay. Whoever is saying this kid is 14 owns the restaurant
That’s because it’s Culvers. Jokes on ya’ll, their recruiting literature make it clear that workers are family. As long as they’re not employees it’s all good!
Red raspberry is a pretty weak flavor of the day. Midnight toffee or caramel cashew ftw!
No way this shit is real. It’s like something I would expect to see in 1920 or something like that.
If you zoom in they look younger, but in a gigantic uniform. In fact it’s hard to gauge their age. The could be a little person.
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Name and shame which Culver’s it is.
I’ve seen this at a Culver’s before. I never bothered to ask what the deal was but I assume it’s some kind of loophole because they’re not exactly hiding it
Yeah, I agree it’s fucked up but there’s almost no way that kid’s under 14, which is the youngest age Culver’s will hire at, he’s just a late bloomer probably. I think a lot of people would disagree with calling that age group a “literal child.”
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A lot of people wouldn’t call a fourteen-year-old a child? Which people? I don’t know of any.
Assuming the literal meaning of “literal”, a child is, according to the OED, literally:
a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority.
Can you explain how the pictured human being does not fit the description above?
From my reply to the other comment:
Fourteen
I don’t think most people would disagree that “teenager” is a more accurate word to describe that age. Trust me, there is plenty fucked up with the OP picture, we don’t need to resort to hyperbolic language to get our point across.
It is blatantly the opposite of accurate. When teenager describes both a thirteen year old who hasn’t hit puberty and a nineteen year old who could fight and die for their country, it’s obviously not an accurate enough term
I have a 14 year old right now and I’d have zero issues with him getting a job. He’s already been eyeing some places. I know this isn’t what you’re exactly saying, but once they hit puberty they’re a bit different than young kids.
I respect that, but your 14 year old is probably quite unusual in that respect. To his credit, of course! Some kids mature faster, and in different areas at different rates. I have a 13 year old and a 16 year old and neither of them would be capable of paid work in my opinion. I love them from the bottom of my heart but they would crumble after a shift at BK
I was laying lines blueberry raking at 14, and doing dishes in a restaurant at 16. I wanted money and it certainly taught me how difficult manual labor is without putting me in any real danger. The worst I got was bread cuts. I’d 100% put my daughter in the same situation when she’s older.
It’s really good life experience I think. I don’t want my kids missing out on it either.
I got my first job in ‘95 when I was 13. This was in a Toronto suburb at a computer shop and it was awesome although only got $5 an hour and had to stay in the back mostly shrink-wrapping a million cd cases. There was a cute 16 year old older girl at the register that I still remember lol.
Didn’t love wearing a large Windows ‘95 box costume and standing at the corner like a hooker though.
Jeeziz. We’re about the same age and I was unable to even make a sandwich at that age I think. Mind you, I bet 13 year old you was ecstatic about that 5 dollars an hour in 1995. I hope you’ve got a picture of yourself in that box for the laughs.
My first job was call centre work at 16. I answered an advert in the local paper. Trying to use a script to swindle old ladies out of their pension for a commission, it was horrifying. I remember thinking “is this what adults do for a living? Cheat each other??” Looking back, I wasn’t that far off in a lot of cases I think.
Getting a job as an indulgence because they are interested is fine. Getting a job because their parents are not capable of giving them a dignified lifestyle is downright disgusting and such kids should be rescued. Often greedy parents mask the latter as the former because they are scum.
Getting a job because their parents are not capable of giving them a dignified lifestyle is downright disgusting and such kids should be rescued
I just don’t understand this leap to conclusions that every young person is out there working because their parents aren’t feeding or clothing them. I grew up with rich friends, middle class friends, and poor friends. Random assortments of all three groups grew up working. The vast majority of the time it to earn money for themselves to buy luxuries. One friend was working to support their family due to a parental situation. There’s no way putting that person in the foster care system would have been better. They Graduated with decent grades too.
Don’t get too worked up over it. The average Stay-At-Home-Lemmy is completely unable to understand the concept that not everyone’s mom and dad will buy them an Xbox and that sometimes teenagers will get jobs to pay for things they want.
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So that’s an inclusive “or” in the definition. If EITHER of those criteria are fulfilled, then the definition can be applied. Since the criterion about the age of majority is true then the definition is true.
So conversely, a person above the age of majority who hasn’t reached puberty yet (medical condition maybe? Just suspend disbelief for the sake of the argument) is still by definition a child.
Those people might say, back in my days I fought wars even though we know better.
Can you explain how the pictured human being does not fit the description above?
R Kelly has entered the chat.
Could be a Shawna Rae thing
You’re getting a lot of down votes, but you’re spot on. I started working fast food at 14, and I looked like I was 9.
And you should have been given pocket money and sent to the playground.
I enjoyed it. The work was easy and it gave me a sense of purpose and I needed that. It taught me the value of my time, and enabled me to get a car when I turned 16. Some people grow up fast, simply because they have to, or sometimes because they just, do. One size does not fit all.
14 and a bit is literally a child
Fourteen.
I don’t think most people would disagree that “teenager” is a more accurate word to describe that age. Trust me, there is plenty fucked up with the OP picture, we don’t need to resort to hyperbolic language to get our point across.
Its not hyperbolic, 14 is a teenage child. Teenager is not more accurate, because when you say a ‘teenage worker’ most would assume they were at least in the usually accepted ‘young adult’ range, 16-19, the image here is of a child worker. If they were 17 or 16 that might be different, though still literally, legally a child.
I think many states allow children as young as 12 to work in specific non-dangerous jobs with permission from the parents. A company recently got in trouble when they had like 20 12-15 year olds working in a meat processing plant which definitely did not qualify for the “not dangerous” qualifier.
you can work for your parents in many places regardless of age
Shame them for what? You don’t know what’s going on in that picture.
Also weird as fuck to be sneaking photos of children like this.
If this was a playground or doing normal childhood activities, then yeah, but this is a fucking Culver’s (I think)… This is not normal.
Are we supposed to take OP at their word or something? “Guys there’s a kid working fast food! I would have taken a picture but it would have been weird. My Canadian girlfriend who was in town that you all have never met urged me not to!”
You take photos of extraordinary sights. I’m sure the shitheads who have allowed this to happen would agree with you since they want to normalize it.
I’m hoping there’s a legitimate, innocent reason for this.
There was an innocent reason apparently, from the now top comment:
“This is Culver’s. They’re a burger fast food joint located throughout the Midwest and have things called “Scoopy Night” where a percentage of the proceeds go toward a specific cause. Schools, dance groups, etc can partake and the kids who attend that school/dance group/etc help take orders and deliver food to tables. Not quite as dystopian as OP has made it seem.”
Thanks!
Nobody s documenting anything with that photo. It’s an out-of-context snapshot. Could be anything. Part of a make a wish with a cancer patient. A school thing to experience five minutes of adulthood. A prank. Staged. You name it. What exactly is documented here?
So yeah, just posting some picture is weird as fuck.
I don’t see how this was since one doesn’t see children working at Culver’s. OP wasn’t aware that it was part of a fundraiser for some school thing… So now it’s weird. They probably had signs up and OP missed it.
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Oh my fucking god it’s a kid working behind a register in full work clothes, in broad daylight, surrounded by people. There is absolutely nothing about this that suggests predatory behavior except possibly some Capitalist tossing on a shiny wrapper for a reason this happens at all. Which, btw, this image circulates periodically. You can find explanations even in this comment thread.
Legal working age of 15 1/2 (in my state) plus a kid who looks young for their age - may not be the most appealing situation, bit this probably completely above board.
No age restrictions if family owned business, that’s a federal law no state can bypass, but I doubt the owner of Culver’s needs their kids to work to support the family.
I’m assuming it is the franchise owner’s kid. Not the owner of Culver’s.
I mean still…
That’s a federal law aimed at farm families from back in the day. And farm kids are still helping and working along side Grandpa and Dad. And where I live, in the middle of a forest, they also help and work along side in logging families also.
Growing up on a farm, my earliest memory in life is walking behind a tractor pulling a ‘stoneboat’ and picking up rocks in the fields along side my father and grandfather. I was driving a tractor pulling wagons and hay trailers by 8 years old and by 12 I was driving trucks hauling grain from the field to storage bins and unloading them. Plus getting up a 5AM to help milk cows every morning and again at 5PM. It was absolutely crucial when my Grandfather got sick with “Farmer’s Lung” and couldn’t work much anymore. I pretty much started running his farm at 14.
So they should just make the legal working age 12 and the problem is solved
ps5 wont buy itself keep hustlin
Rise and grind and watch spongebob
gotta work hard to play hard fr fr
