I’m surprised it is this low.
Edit: the comments are hell. But what else to except from propagandized westerners that never cared to know from Arabs.
I wish our leaders had a sense of shame or honour, instead many of them are collaborators.
“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
Not to be pedantic but I’d to clarify one aspect that not many people know.
He was right, except for one. At least from the perspective of those Muslim Arab leaders:
Our God is not theirs.
Islam is an Abrahamic religion, regarded by the Muslim as a continuation of the Abrahamic religions before it. So the muslim regard themselves as having the same god as the Jews and the Christians. Thus, the prophets of the Jewish religion (and even the prophets of the Christianity, Jesus) are also regarded as prophets in Islam. Many of them are mentioned in Quran in good faith. The main difference is the jewish doesn’t recognize Muhammad as their prophet while the Muslim regards Muhammad as the last prophet in addition to those before him.
You know polls are utterly unscientific tea-leaf reading right?
57% sounds empirical and they even have cool little charts to go with it. Best case scenario it was: you got someone who doesn’t want to talk to you to talk to you for five minutes, or you set the stage for a talkative bastard to talkative bastard at you until you can break free. Neither are particularly good windows into their actual thoughts about Thing X but furthermore all the responses usually total like 0.000028% of the population.
You know polls are utterly unscientific tea-leaf reading right?
Lmao
Maths is unscientific now
E: To any downvoters: you are stupid.
Polling is just maths, and is very reliable so long as it’s done reasonably.
By all means have reservations of this poll specifically, but to call polls in general or as a concept “unscientific tea leaf reading” is foolish. Disagreeing with that mathematical fact is exactly the same as disagreeing that 5 + 5 = 10.
Calling social studies math is an insult to math.
Polling is mathematical…
Faked polls are forces of nature now?
When did I mention faked polls? You’re just making up shit now.
You’re either a troll or stupid if you don’t think polling is mathematics.
Russia polled in villages that they captured that Ukrainians actually want to be annexed by Russia. Can’t argue with math right?
Good strawman. I never said that polls can’t have a selection bias.
I said thinking polls in general or polls as a concept are tea leaf reading is stupid. Because it is. If you believe that, you’re a moron. You may as well say you disagree with the concept that 5 + 5 is 10.
A: raping and brutally killing is legitimate for what you do to us!
B: launching rockets on your civilian buildings is legitimate for what you do to us!
and goes on and on…
Edit: downvoted because I just triggered both parties
If the Zionists didn’t target Palestine, nothing would be happening right now. This isn’t a cycle without a beginning.
Yes, this wasn’t the UN giving Israel land randomly, this was influenced by an Israeli fascist terrorist group called the Stern Gang. They forced the British empire and the UN to give 50% of the land to Israel. They gave them 56% of the land but Israel had half the population.
In which reality is this fair? This is an INVASION. Anything happening to Israel is their own fault. They are invading a country. Anything they do to the civilians of the country they are invading is a war crime.
People just need to put themselves in the position of one of the 750k Palestines who were removed from their lands and sent to live in tents because the UN said so. You have your land, your family lives there, you’re trying to make a living… Suddenly you have NOTHING. And there are soldiers with assault rifles coming to kill you if you don’t leave.
Seriously, how can anyone support Israel? This is a straight up invasion. How else can they defend their land if the US keeps sending military weapons and funding to Israel? How else are the Palestinians supposed to defend their land? Terrorist tactics is all they have left.
cycle without a beginning
What about 1949?
How is that any different to Europe defending Ukraine from a Russian invasion? Why can’t other countries defend Palestine during an invasion?
why can’t other countries defend Palestine
Where did I say they couldn’t?
I was just posting the starting year of the current “older than time” territory dispute. Ya know, the one without a beginning that started in 1949.
I said “this ISN’T a cycle without a beginning”. It started when Israel invaded Palestine. Thanks for the date.
Okay, so where did I say other countries couldn’t defend Palestine?
As for the chaos around mUh HoLy LaNd… You could argue the territorial disputes over that specific plot of land began much MUCH earlier than israel’s founding. That 1949 date is just one example. It’s not exactly like 2000 years ago that zone was a paradise of peace and love.
How the fuck did you even interview them? The governments of many Arab countries in this survey would kidnap and jail you indefinitely without trail if you support Palestine in public or on social media, and many other cave in to what they are expected to say. It’s garbage in garbage out
resistance? Its intention was to open the doors for Israel and so it did.
What do you mean? The fascist islamist terrorists of Hamas wanted Israel to retaliate? For what reason? I think you give them too much credit, they just took an opportunity to kill as many as they could.
Cool, Israel’s current campaign is legitimate resistance to Hamas aggression as well.
No doubt about that. minus some bad details .
When you’re defending beheading children as “legitimate resistance” when you should probably take a step back and take a long hard look at yourself.
And no, before idiots come along and say dumb shit… That doesn’t mean I’m defending Israel’s actions either. It’s possible to dislike both situations.
If they had any proof of “Beheading children” they would have submitted to the International Court of Justice. but they didn’t, they haven’t even dared use that sentence. but here your are parroting your Zionist Hasbara Lies and defending a genocidal agenda that have been in the working for over a century
Oh look, the idiots saying dumb shit have turned up …
I know right, the rest of us would rather you guys go home.
There’s no evidence Hamas beheaded children. IIRC that was a rumor originating from the IDF which remains unsubstantiated.
This is Zionist propganda.
No beheaded children nor rapes happened.
Only some Thai migrant men that got mutilated after they were already shot dead.
Show me 40 decapitated babies and I will start believing the IDF
Whoever agree with the “legitimate resistance” legitimates everything in this website:
NSFW WARNING: The website contains violent content. Viewer discretion is advised.
I don’t think you want to play the game of who can show who did worse things.
It is Israel, 100%.
Israel has killed 20 times that number and leveled whole families and neighborhoods slaughtering tons of innocent children.
Considering how the Arab world at large never agreed with the terms of Israel’s conquest, this makes sense.
In the 40s and 50s they all agreed on kicking those same Jews out of their counties, though.
And attacking Israel at the same time but still all losing so bad that Israel actually gained land.
It does seem like some anime shit
The Israelis themselves know it but deny it. I am confident that one day sooner or later, Palestine will be liberated like Ireland, Algeria and South Africa before it.
“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.” — David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
Pretty sure jews around the world never agree with the war that was brought to them the moment country was formed.
On Palestine. Their country was formed through massacres and ethnic cleansing.
Which country wasn’t?
Most of them.
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We are specifically talking about settler colonialism and ethnic cleansing. Something most countries in the world haven’t been founded on. Take Egypt or Libya for example.
So was the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.
They’re not going anywhere, and the people who call for the abolition of those countries are nutcases and will always be accurately understood as nutcases.
Pakistan and India were formed just like Israel was: according to international law and by partition.
If the Palestinians want a state, they can have one: alongside Israel. Those are the terms. And until they accept that, they will suffer. Sucks for them.
What? So we’re supposed to live by the same standards we had before globalization?
So, as a human society we have not evolved to recognize that what happened in the US was wrong and that it happening again is not acceptable?
Hm.
Pakistan and India wasn’t the same. it was single nation split in two. the people in it is native. Israel is nonexistent before 1948 and the people were brought from outside. as south African kick out theirs oppressors, Palestinian will do the same. israel is no different than nazi, instead israel are worst.
the people in it is native.
Some were, some weren’t. Depends how far back you want to go, which wave of mass migration you’re talking about.
Israel is nonexistent before 1948 and the people were brought from outside
Except, of course, that none of this is correct.
First, there’s the ancient Kingdom of Judah. The Jews are the same people.
Second, Jews maintained a continuous presence in the land of Israel-Palestine ever since then. They are, therefore, indigenous to the land.
Third, the majority of Jewish Israelis are Mizrahis – Jews from Arab lands who’ve lived there since the Second Temple Period (516 BC - 70 AD), who were forced to flee from these neighbouring Muslim states due to violence, pogroms, repression and the theft of their property.
We know from numerous scientific studies of Jewish and Palestinian DNA that they’re almost identical, and share a common root, most likely both being descendents of the ancient Canaanites. Here’s a very recent one. There’s almost no genetic difference with ‘European’ Ashkenazi Jews either, because they very rarely intermarried with other faith/ethnic groups. Here’s another from 2015 in Haaretz.
Palestinians and Jews are basically cousins, genetically speaking, and both are indigenous to the land. Palestinians perceive it as an invasion, and that’s understandable despite not being true. To the Jews, they were returning from exile to their homeland only to find that there were squatters who’d let the place fall to ruin while they were gone, which is also understandable though not true.
They’ll find a way to live together one day, but it’ll require both sides to accept the rights of the other.
Judaism is a religion and FYI all Middle Eastern people cluster close genetically. In fact South Arabians cluster closer to ancient Levantines than Zionist settlers. Should you instead give the land to them?
We already know Ashkenazi are European https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html
And are highly susceptible to skin cancer unlike the Palestinians.
Remarkably, although Israeli Arabs, especially men, tend to work more outdoors, melanoma in this sector is rare compared to that of Jewish Israelis.
https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellness/article-706842
As for Mizrahis they are from wherever they came from. Yemeni Jews aren’t Palestinians anymore than Yemeni Muslims are Palestinian. Not at all.
If Jews had a continuous presence then why did Zionist leaders refer to themselves and their project as colonialism? https://en.jabotinsky.org/media/9747/the-iron-wall.pdf
You should read the Iron Wall Essay. In it Jabotinsky clearly states that Zionism is colonialism and accurately predicts that the Palestinians will resist since “all natives resist colonialists”.
If Jews had a continuous presence how did they come by the hundreds of thousands on ships? There were Palestinian Jews who are indigenous but Judaism is a religion, Jews from France or Morocco are not indigenous.
If you want to argue that people that haven’t been in Palestine before Zionism are indigenous then you still need to explain how that gives them the right to expel people already there from their lands.
I have been arguing with Zionists for years, and other than myths and lies to justify their colonialism of Palestine, the only solid argument they ever gave is “might makes right”. I can see Zionists believe in it, Jabotinsky and the Likud clearly do. At which I say it took 132 years to liberate Algeria, it took 7 centuries to liberate Ireland. No one is mighty forever.
it took 7 centuries to liberate Ireland. No one is mighty forever.
When do you think Canada will be liberated and the indigenous return to power?
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The al-Aqsa Mosque has been a source of tension as it is located above the Temple Mount, a holy site for both Jews and Christians.
While non-Muslims now have permission to attend their holy site via the Moors Gate, they are forbidden from praying there which has created increased tension.
Palestinians, before October 7, had been permitted to enter Israel with proper documentation for work, medical treatments or for other reasons.
When asked about the responses of regional and international powers to the war, 94% said they considered the United States position negatively, with 82% clarifying they thought it was bad.
The same trend continued for other Western countries with 79%, 78%, and 75% of respondents viewed the positions of France, the UK, and Germany negatively.
In a different survey response, 81% said that they did not believe the US was serious about establishing a Palestinian state and 77% of respondents named the US and Israel as the biggest threat to the security and stability of the region.
The original article contains 666 words, the summary contains 168 words. Saved 75%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
As suspected. 63% of the Arab world are propagandized.
Hard to claim this when the Arab governments are anti Palestine. I personally learned about the conflict from reading Israeli authors and historians like Ilan Pappe, my government didn’t teach me shit.
Do you really think Israeli authors and historians can be trusted to produce a non biased account here?
What kind of bias would someone like Ilan Pappe has? One of his books is titled “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine”.
Why on earth do we accept J Post articles here? It’s literally Israeli propaganda.
I’ll remember that next time I see an al Jazeera post
Im not sure I mentioned al Jazeera at all. Random that you brought it up
Their point is that those claims are made in both directions.
I suspect their point was baseless whataboutism pointed at something I never said or implied to try and (in their minds) undermine my point.
If you want to ban one news outlet that you are imagining is state propaganda, why not ban the other state propaganda with a clear biased agenda?
Where did I say I did or did not want to ban Al Jazerra?
I didnt mention it at all.
Thats why its so bad faith.
You’re right, you’re certainly arguing in bad faith. It’s okay, the rest of us understand where you stand, and why your propaganda isn’t any better than the Qatari ran lies.
Not really. Israeli outlets literally just make up lies and repeat known false propaganda. Aljazeera is just one sided reporting
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/arab-center-research-policy-studies-174700630.html
Happy? Or do you have a narrative to spin about this one, too?
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@roastedDeflator @world I can only find it in Arabic. dohainstitute.org/ar/Lists/ACR…
@roastedDeflator @world My Arabic is not up to translating the whole thing, but some headline figures from my quick skim.
59% of Arabs are following the news about Gaza daily
54% following it mainly by satellite TV, 36% by social media
84% feeling psychological pressure because of the war
67% think the Hamas attack on 7/10/2023 was a legitimate resistance operation
67% think Hamas is totally unlike ISIS
69% stand in solidarity with Gaza and Hamas
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This doesn’t seem any different from polling Western countries and writing a title about what the Western world thinks. Doesn’t make me think of a monolith.
In that case, I’m sure you’d have an issue with a publication writing “99% of Europeans think Hitler was bad”, despite it being a bunch of different nations.
Or, is it “eh white is white” for you?
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A new opinion poll, carried out by the Arab Center for Research and Policy Studies, was published on January 10
It’s a Qatari institution with clear bias. Just because it has “Arab” in the name doesn’t mean it represents all arabs. There are many institutions in the middle east with “arab” in the title, they don’t represent us all.
Just a reminder that Aljazeera is a Qatari state owned channels, and Qatar represented Palestine in the opening for Asia’s cup just yesterday.
But yea… good journalism.
The 8000 respondents, from 16 different countries,
8000 respondents, given that they’re a fair sample size from each arab-majority country (which I doubt) do not represent what 464 million arabs think.
That’s 0.0001724138% of the population.
your comment shows us you don’t know how polls are made
why not look it up first and only then comment (if relevant)
You definitely haven’t taken stats.
Just like the polls done by those who “know stats” who predicted a clinton win in 2016.
Whilst it’s quite amazing just how few people you need in your sample to get a +/- 3% error with a 95% confidence for the opinion of hundreds of millions, that narrow error margin with just a few thousand samples only works if the sample is representative of the population in general, which is unclear.
Plenty of cases of polls out there that are complete total bollocks because they were taken by calling by phone people in relativelly poor countries were only those in the middle class and above have a phone, and at times when most people were out working, so they ended up sampling an atypical subset of people rather than one representative of the whole society.
The way the question is posed also influences the results, sometimes quite subtly (the mere order or words or order of questions in multiple-question poll can sway the results).
So whilst what you said makes sense in response to the previous commenter’s point, there’s a lot more to good polling than merelly the number of samples necessary for a certain error margin in the 95% confidence interval when your sampling is random in a uniform distribution (emphasys on the later, as actually making sure the sampling is indeed like that in practice is often difficult and/or costly)
Polls…how do they work?
Maybe include that it is a poll of “~5700 arabs by Qatari institutions” in the title, not “67% of arabs”.
Misleading title. Sorry to see individuals like you on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
How is the really of an opinion poll painting them as a monolith? It’s literally saying they have different opinions.
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