For now, it looks like the favored answer to the data mystery is to blame Asus for misreporting it. We may never know what happened with Johnie, who is now running his LG washing machine offline.
Another relatively innocent reason for the supposed high volume of uploads could be an error in the Asus router firmware. In a follow-up post a day after his initial Tweet, Johnie noted “inaccuracy in the ASUS router tool.” Other LG smart washing machine users showed device data use from their apps. It turns out that these appliances more typically use less than 1MB per day.
1 MB per day is more than enough to phone home.
The title seems like clickbait tho.
Yes. Also yes.
I remember when Tom’s hardware was one German dentist and washing machines were to primitive to pick up a phone… you’d think they’d have done something cool by now like make them fold our clothes for us. The future is lame.
Verbosity level 99999
It’s over 9000!
That’s a pretty silly headline for an article that quite clearly states that the issue was with the router’s data usage reporting capabilities.
They suspect, but it’s hardly clear cut
Should be something that you rule out long before blaming LG…
Bob! Is it still spinning?.. yeah Fred! Hold on I think this cycle is almost over…get ready folks! A few more seconds and the bets will close!
3, 2, 1!!! And the winner is…! Drum roll please!
Green tipped socks!!!
Meanwhile at the Vegas Casino… I got it! Look! I got the bonus roll! All green tipped socks!
Which software did he used to monitor the data usages?
Edit: nvm, looks like it’s priority one from Asus
That’s a clear indication of IoT control being taken over by malicious actor to make it a part of botnet.
Any IoT needs to be secured when connected to Internet (and, not intranet).
What exactly in this article indicates that? I feel you’re either mis-reading the article or baselessly fear-mongering here.
Smart devices are great, but if it’s not Zigbee or Zwave and Home Assistant, it can fuck off.
What do Zigbee and Swave do better than others? Btw Tasmota is cool too
They cannot access the internet because they need a bridge to work. The bridge can be open source software like Zigbee2MQTT.
Zigbee and zwave are fully local. They can’t decide to phone home over the protocols without your consent. The hubs can if they are wifi connected but that’s a different issue.
Anything on a network, be it wifi or Ethernet, can (attempt to) phone home without any use intervention, and without a wifi connected hub.
Believe it or not, you can set up wifi or ethernet in your home without any access to the internet.
Yes, and you can also set up plumbing without connecting it to a water source. It’s just not the norm.
Though I admit it’s more likely to have a segregated network than plumbing without water.
I’m a little new to this stuff myself, but basically those devices are robust enough to get the job done but also simple enough that they don’t do anything else. I have Z-Wave for my shades, a temperature/humidity sensor, a tilt sensor for my garage door, a relay for the opener, and a light switch/scene controller for some physical button shortcuts. Very different things, and I don’t need an app from each manufacturer. Each device also creates a mesh network with one another, so these devices can have a pretty low-power, low overhead radio for battery life and still work pretty well even if you’re reaching far away from your hub.
I haven’t used Zigbee but I understand it works pretty similarly. They seem to have some pretty cheap scene controllers so I was thinking of getting on that bandwagon (my shades were Z-Wave and that’s what got me into this rabbit hole so I’ve been using that to start)
Also, an honorable mention for TP-Link’s Kasa series. Hardware is pretty solid and while I do need their app to get a device going, it’s made pretty well and integrates nicely to Home Assistant. Now if only they’ll put out that fan controller they announced a year ago and haven’t given a meaningful update over since!
Picturing Paul Hibbard looking at you in a way that says “hate yourself too, eh?”
I like my devices to be dumb but be able to function without internet.
Zwave chips are all made by one company, and the old ones can’t be updated against a newer vulnerability.
But each to their own
You mean 3.7kg of load right?
Right? …
My heat pump can be controlled by an app but it all goes through an external web page for some reason so I noped out of it.
Yeah, when I bought mine I saw to it, that it had a local API. That’s a buying requirement by now.
Check yours, often they speak at least modbus TCP and then one can hack something with HomeAssistant.
The reason is so you can control it from anywhere without setting up port forwarding and a static IP. Most people don’t understand, or can be bothered, doing that. I get why you don’t like it, I wouldn’t like it either, but it’s not some conspiracy.
It would be far better if somebody sold a single VPN device for the mass public to be able to access home devices. Something wireguard based could be so simple for people to use. Even better if your ISP had this as a standard feature which they made easy to setup Then none of these devices would have an excuse to go out to the company’s servers. Any that did would be obviously spying and they could be shamed.
Doesn’t wireguard’s zero config work by relaying through an outside web service? Seems like the LG solution with extra steps.
Better yet if the lasy ass ISPs would move over to IPv6, ditch CG-NAT and give static addresses for all. I suspect there is a deeper issue as I believe that even on IPv6, mobile phone internet is still hidden behind CG-NAT.
How to check this? I’ve got an LG heat pump…
It was in the manual. There’s an extra piece you connect inside and an app.
It’s an older meme sir, but it checks out.
Why would you connect your washing machine to WiFi in the first place? Like legitimate question.
I don’t have a wifi active washing machine, but I have a dryer on wifi, and to answer your question, I have ADHD and frequently forget there’s even laundry. Like as a concept.
So I turned on my dryer’s wifi and now when it’s done, I get a notification. Which allows me to come downstairs and fold what’s in there (and put the stuff from the washer into the dryer).
Before I would turn on the dryer (and washer) and then have go wash clothes again because they went sour on me. So wasteful! Made me ashamed! Hopefully I won’t go blind to dryer notifications…
I have an LG washer/dryer. With the app you can add downloaded cycle programs. And you can just have one at the time, and there are two cycles I sometimes swap between. It also gives me a notice when it needs to be cleaned and it has smart diagnostics when something goes wrong. And of course delayed start via app and notification when the wash is done. So there are some benefits, but I still hate it
Those do sound useful. Hook it up to home assistant and send all its external requests to the DNS void.
I have mine in hass… the integration is cloud dependant.
Edit: The stuff I can do in with it in HASS is great though. I can only hope that someone figures out how to skip the cloud requirement all together like they did with some other stuff that I use.
Home assistant usually doesn’t work as a backend for smart appliances like that, just as a frontend that connects to the same stuff that your smartphone app connects to. It communicates with the appliance through the original cloud service, so you can’t take it entirely offline.
Because water is held in cloud storage
::slow clap::
Well played, friend. Well played.
So I never would have bothered. We built a new house and the set we got came with Wi-Fi (not a feature I cared about) and it was actually really helpful to have notifications. I have a family and kids and they don’t always watch when things are done. So now I can catch when cycles are done as sensor cycles can be highly variable.
Is it compatible with Home Assistant? Then maybe.
So you can get a notification when it’s done, I imagine.
To get notifications when your laundry is done.
As someone with adhd, I could see it being super helpful for me.
Its a good reason to allow wifi but there is no reason for you to receive such a notification unless your home to act on it, otherwise your better of receiving the notification once your phone reconnect with your homes wifi.
Wifi isnt the same as internet.
There is sometimes but rarely a good reason for those same decides to connect to the public web. They are much more secure if everything stays local.
The prime reason companies claim they need internet so you can set up things like stop heat when i am not home…. But guess what, if my phone isnt activity at home connecting to wifi, my home server can figure it out on its own, no cloud required.
Doesn’t have to be connected to the cloud for that, except if you do your laundry when you’re not home.
For the way modern stuff works, it does. If you want notifications that don’t chew through battery life on Android or notifications at all on iOS, then it needs to go through the respective notification services.
We /could/ design ways that this wouldn’t be an issue and entirely local push notifications could be a thing. But it’s not how your devices work today.
Three letter agencies want to read your notifications so we have to have a centralised service
Ah ben tabarnak.
I have an lg machine with notifications… it’s very helpful.
We have two young kids, laundry is constant.
Reminders to run the tub wash cycle are helpful, or when airflow is bad, etc
An alarm could likely help you accomplish the same thing without the wifi-connected washing machine.
Whatever works for you works for you, though.
Likely an alarm needs to be set every time, a notification of finished load is likely automatic.
Yup, I have alarms in my phone for this. Adhd means I’ll forget to set that alarm most of the time.
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Well, you don’t necessarily need to deal with the laundry the second the machine is ready - if you merely set the alarm to be the approximate maximum time, you’re probably going to be fine with the laundry spending half an hour or so sitting wet in the machine.
If the alarm is easy to dismiss, then perhaps a reminder app could be of use. I frequently use Google Tasks with a time for the tasks to cope with everyday life, which sends a notification at the specified time.
Fair point, I didn’t think of that. Any IoT device gets put in the “naughty” vlan and 99% of their outgoing requests goes straight to /Dev/null
I need to set up my VLANs 🥺
Its saved my skin once when my retard cousin connected his malware infected laptop to my “I domt control this device” network. Only other thing on the network was my work laptop that has a ton of security on it. More than I even have on my stuff. So it lit up like a Christmas tree and commited suicide. Get a ping from my boss asking what the fuck I downloaded lmao.
You’re making me wanna cry. I need this in my life!
I do the same thing. All they’re allowed to talk to is Home Assistant except for when I allow internet access to update firmware.
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Consumer grade Netgear routers support VLANs.
My ISP router can do vlan mate.
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Ubiquiti ERX $59.
Why are you so bitter? Chill out.
My dryer is as dumb as they come. It just beeps like a motherfucker until I open the door, which is pretty effective.
See, mine makes absolutely zero noise when done, which isn’t a good thing for me. But, I’d be more likely to build my own smart system (probably a flow sensor on the drain).
Or light sensor, monitoring machine’s lights.
I’ve found vibration sensing to be the easiest.
My ‘smart’ LG washer/dryer plays a jaunty little tune when done. Even on max volume it’s difficult to hear. I miss my old dumb machines.
FWIW I accomplish this with a zigbee outlet on the washer and dryer (dryer is gas, so it’s not a 50a circuit). It has stats on power consumption and I have a home assistant sensor set up so that when it drops below a threshold for a period of time, it counts the washer/dryer as off and notifies me.
Only works if you can start a cycle on power on. My machine will just sit there waiting for someone to press the go button.
I don’t actually use it to control anything, though I have in the past had an automation to turn off the dryer because GE is total crap and the sound on/off button busted, but the sound is super annoying. But anyway yeah, I’m actually only using these outlets for their sensors to decide if the machines are on or off.
Yep, this ☝️
So I actually have one that does.
I get notifications when laundry is done.
I get a notification when I need to do routine maintenance like change filters, or refill the detergent. (It has a built-in jug and dispenser) I can send it settings via the app, which is easier than via the built in controls. (It has things like extra rinse, wash times for different rinses, and steaming and stuff). It’s not impossible to do via the interface, but it’s a bit easier via the phone.The one I had also sent me a notification if the clothes were too humid after the drying cycle, so I could add more minutes to it. That was a Samsung tho
Why didn’t it just add the minutes itself?
It was an ECO mode, most of the time it was enough, but sometimes you need the real power. I guess it didn’t do itself because it would consume more power
I liked the connected features but now that I use a “dumb” washer and a dryer I don’t really miss them
Joke Answer: Just ask Pied Piper about their fridges.
Non-Joke Answer:
Not personally owned washers of course:
I live in a set of apartments and we have a laundry room and the quarter slots have been removed entirely and now you have to pay for your laundry with an app and Bluetooth.
In other words, it could be fucking worse and you might not have a choice because your landlords don’t give a shit about poor people (who may not have a device capable of running the app).
EDIT: The bonus? The notifications on when your laundry is done don’t even work properly and are consistently wrong. I still just set a timer.
Thats wild. We had laundry cards.
I’d be ripping that app apart and patching it to skip the payment step.
They make you make an account tied to your email, and it authenticates your account each time it connects. I’ve already done a teensy bit of network peeking at it, but I’m not savvy enough to try to be bypassing authentication.
You mentioned it was using Bluetooth to communicate with the actual machine so I’m assuming they are not directly connected to the internet in any way? If that’s correct then it’s just a case of understanding the Bluetooth comms which is probably some basic BLE stuff they put together by tweaking the sample code from the BLE chip manufacturer.
Not that this covers many cases, but a lot of appliances are running touch screens and a lack of non-visual indicators. Blind people could benefit from having an app with a screen reader to run the machine. Of course, this is just a patch for a problem which shouldn’t have existed in the first place.
Legitimately, I want one exclusively so I can get told the wash is done and then I can put it on for an extra spin all from the pub round the corner from my house and then arrive home just as it’s finishing
I don’t understand the craze of slapping wifi or bluetooth connectivity to everything without giving proper thought. Cameras, television, vehicles, coffee pots, medical devices, laundry machines, hipster juicers… what’s next? Is my salt shaker going to have it?
Something something “the internet of things is the future”…
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And the bad part is that it is being forced upon us. You can’t even find non-smart TVs to buy anymore.
I wouldn’t be surprised if appliances come with their own data plan, because the data they collect is valuable.
That’s a great idea! You can check your salt levels while at work or on vacation. You could even have your salt shaker automatically order more salt from Amazon when the level got too low. Or how about you program your maximum daily salt intake so it closes up when it’s reached.
So much potential!
Not even a little far-fetched
Every washing machine I’ve owned for the last 30 years has had a delayed start function and I’ve never used it once, if that simple function is useless I donno what else a WiFi connection could offer
Delayed start, but from your phone, via their totally-not-tracking-infested app. That’s why it needs wifi.
Not sure if I need the /s but here it is just to be sure.
I have a wifi enabled AC unit. It also has a remote control.
No, I have never used wifi to control it. Why would I? It has a remote control.
I do use the timer delay to run the wash cycle when the power is cheap. I’d really like it if I could set it as “ready to go” and something else give it the “go” when the power is cheap.
Once I have that, it’s also useful to have something to tell me there’s wet washing that needs to be unloaded.
If my washing machine was older I could do all of this with a remote power switch and sensor, but because my washing machine has touch buttons instead of click/clacks, I can’t. Turning the power on just makes it wait for a button press.
Ok setting the delay for off peak electricity actually does make a bit of sense
Notify you when a cycle is done, but you could do that with a vibration sensor over zigbee and home assistant, or an outlet power monitor.
People simply don’t understand there are other low-band wireless local communication protocols other than wifi and maybe IR, and that is completely taken advantage of by companies who deal in user data.
That’s so odd to me, too. I’m notified when the buzzer goes off. I would hear the buzzer before I heard my phone.
And who needs to be notified immediately when a cycle is done? I’m lucky if my laundry doesn’t sit there for hours after I’ve heard the buzzer and said to myself, I should do that laundry.
I had a WiFi enabled range and the only remotely useful thing it could do was send my phone a notification when the timer went off.
It could preheat the oven via the app too but I wasn’t too keen on turning on my oven when I wasn’t near it.
That’s data laundering
Damn you! Angry upvote.
I applaud your clean laundry pun.
Would be funny as fuck if they were using these devices as Bitcoin miners.
Hackers have used wind turbine farms as bitcoin miners. It’s not that far fetched.
It’s possible that it had some vulnerability which was automatically exploited by one of her majesty’s secret services (perhaps with help from their US counterparts) to make it a component of their covert infrastructure.
Or quite simply, hackers scanning for unsecured devices that access the internet and using them to do shit.
Listen to Darknet Diaries -> Start fearing everything
Jesus fucking Christ.
