This is such a complicated question because it gets into the origins of religion and belief systems in general, but also power and class struggles, economics, social psychology and propaganda, and more.
Lots of people haven’t been properly educated Lots of people have been indoctrinated Lots of people have a reason to exploit the beliefs of others Lots of people value comfort and community above scientific accuracy or consistency
Can you refine your question a bit?
Do millions just want to ignore science?
I have to imagine you’re not an American, because yeah, millions of Americans legitimately want to ignore science completely. They’re pretty loud about it too.
I’m an American. The religious people here are terrifying.
Why would you think science and religion are irreconcilable? Or are you thinking of one church in particular?
They are irreconcilable. People who try to merge the two are using double-think also known as cognitive dissonance. I know, I did it for years.
Religions make claims and the evidence more often than not doesnt support the claims being true. You are free to try to square the circle, but you will fail. And the extent of your failure will be the effort you put in.
Just to poke at Buddhism. Sidrattha made claims about the geography of the world, those are not true and we have lots of good data backing up a round world. He made claims about rebirth and the soul which logically contradict each other.
Adding to this comment: Science is fundamentally agnostic. You can even go so far as to say that the existence of God or a higher power is the one question which is forever doomed to be unanswerable by science and logic, almost by definition of God.
Of course, specific parts of the mythos of specific religions can and have been contradicted by science. But the main question of whether or not a higher power exists remains and will forever remain unanswerable.
It’s funny how it works one way and not the other. If we had even a hint of positive evidence for God you would never stop hearing about it. But since we don’t we are told that we have to pretend this is outside our knowledge. Heads I win, tails you lose.
You seems to love these flat, oversimplified questions :)
(Or why don’t you just ask these millions of people?)
…why don’t you just ask…
Good idea, maybe using some sort of widely-available service in a section where “ask” is part of the name. Might not reach every demographic equally but it’s easier and less expensive than hiring an army to conduct door-to-door surveys.
Humans are not rational creatures, and despite all the knowledge we have gained, people will still find what they want to be true the most believable of all
Besides, you can talk about all of the science we have discovered, but the overwhelming majority of people don’t really see it. We see the technology and all that, but we don’t truly understand it, so you ultimately are just taking someone else’s word for it. To me, the word of the scientific community is credible, but to some it is not
Some people are flat-earthers. People aren’t swayed by reason. We’re dumb animals, and the conceit of us as “rational” is hubris
Organized religion or religion in a spiritual sense? I do believe there is some higher power that created matter and the laws of physics. But I don’t believe they care or even know about us.
Do you believe this for any particular reason, or just because it is psychologically reassuring? I’m not trying to be a smartass, I’m honestly curious about your perspective.
I’ve watched about 1000 hours of the Atheist Experience, Aron Ra, Cosmic Skeptic, Christopher Hitchens, and just about every popular religious apologist you can think of too. I’ve never hear a single compelling argument for creationism (I know you are talking about creation in the more macro sense, I don’t think you’re a young earth creationist).
The only one I’ve ever seen that was even worth giving serious thought is the Kalam Cosmological Argument, which I find to be deeply flawed as well, it is simply the least bad argument. So my ultimate question to you would be this: If there is a “higher power” that created the universe as we know it, but that higher power is completely indistinguishable from the laws of nature as we observe them then why believe and why care?
Well I’m not opposed to the idea that we(the universe)were created by accident. Maybe we are a simulation, maybe I’m the creator of the universe and everything is just my brains imagination.
I don’t really know or put much thought into it, but I can’t just think. Matter was just there. Like the bug bag happened with nothing before it.
Like even the vacume of space is some thing.
So your claim is that tge universe had a beginning? To me, the universe having existed forever, and it starting to exist at some point with nothing, not even time before makes just as little sense.
Really, things existing at all makes little sense, it would make much more sense if nothing existed. But that is at odds with what I observe.
Our fragile minds still get scared. While looking for answers, you can find those who claim to have them.
There are lots of reasons. Some people want answers for questions that we don’t have scientific answers for yet, or that science can’t possibly answer.
Some people want to use a framework to justify their behavior.
Some people are scared or disgusted by the implications of our knowledge, and they want it to be something different.
Some people want to manipulate others.
There are many religions because there are many reason why they exist.
One problem is trying to discern people who have truly religious beliefs, vs. people that are lazy lairs.
I think Trump supporters that talk of him being chosen by God are lazy lairs. They have a racist world view, can’t justify it, so bring God into the argument. They have no real interest into looking deeply at questions or reality; they laugh at those that do.
Is this a problem to my answer? It just seems like another explanation.
Frankly, it doesn’t matter if religious beliefs are truly held or not, the results are the same.
Trump supporters are fucking morons, I’d take 50/50 odds on there being a trump cult in the next 15 years that worship him as a second coming, and that would be valid as a religion.
questions that we don’t have scientific answers for yet, or that science can’t possibly answer
I’ll be the Devil’s advocate for this one and say that there are very few questions that science can’t legitimately answer to any degree, like what consciousness is. But for others like why the universe became what it is today and how it works, it’s just not a satisfying answer for someone who has no interest or hasn’t studied physics and chemistry to a reasonable degree. Like, the way that we can partly explain a lot of what goes on from the flow of energy or that life’s purpose is to reproduce in biology, what a let down of an answer that is for someone who was promised a grandiose explanation of everything.
Anyway, what I’m trying to say is that I can see why people retreat back to religion for these answers. And tangentially, this is why I think we need more people like Carl Sagan who can genuinely paint our understanding of the natural world in a more awe-inspiring way for the average person without becoming a meme themselves like some of these other celebrities.
Science can’t answer any “why.” It can explain how and what, but it can’t give meaning. If someone thinks it does give meaning, they have turned it into a religion.
I’m well aware but I don’t mean why as in “why it is that it is”, but why as in how we got to where we are. “Why is the world round?” (spherical for the pedantics amongst us) is perfectly answerable by Science and it’s not an existential question.
How did the big bang happen?
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I really like the holographic theory but again that’s a theory which gives us answers, but then opens up a bunch more questions. The point of my comment was about as long as we have these fundamental questions about reality, we will have religion. I wasn’t trying to say god did it.
People thini the earth is flat and vaccines contain microchips.
Yes, and there are likely similar reasons between conspiracy theories and religion. But the question was asking what they were, not more examples of irrational belief.
Dude, we have people that think vaccines are giving people disabilities and that the moon landing was fake. There’s no shortage of morons out there. I’d go so far as to say many, if not most religious people are fairly rational, especially by comparison xD
We are also the most connected we have ever been, yet more and more are giving it up for 2d anime girls
God seems more likely than the alternative tbh
Existence is pain. Religion is one of many ways to relieve it.
Then why religious people are so stressed about causing other people pain?
They aren’t in my experience. They are stressed about increasing cognitive dissonance.
Im not religious, not in the sense that i follow any particular religion.
But it seems to me, analyzing the history of humanity across multiple cultures, that we humans have fundamentally a “spiritual need”, a need to believe into something that is bigger than us, that lies on a superior level of existence.
Call it buddhism, christianity or whatever, but it seems like we need to believe in something like that.
To an extent, i believe it has to do with us being moral animals and having a natural need for justice. We want to believe that justice exists in this world and a religion and its rules is a way to a just world. Because bad people go to hell, or are victims of karma.
So to answer your question. I think we want the world to be fair, because we are moral animals. And believing in religion is a way to believe in a fair world.
The problem with religions is twofold.
One, that across human history the above core element of all religions has been conflated with other foreign elements that have nothing to do with it, like descriptions about the origin of the universe and humans (which is a question of science, not of religion) and rules about how to live your life which have nothing moral about them (and are probably the temporary result of the existing culture within a society). Like forbidding homosexuality, or the idea that women serve a very limited function in society which is limited to taking care of the home and the children.
Usually people have come to accept this because religion is sold as a “complete package” (particularly enforced with rules that you make a bad religious person if you don’t accept it all and with the people close being incentivized to look down on you for not strictly adhering to the religious teachings). That is also why people believe in religion in general (and not just in its moral teachings which actually make sense) in 2024.
The second problem with religion (and here i’m going on a tangent that doesn’t have much to do with the question at hand) is that it usually makes a validity claim for eternity, i.e. religion asserts that its rules and knowledge are valid forever (literally set in stone). This has done more harm than good to our improving of our set of guiding moral principles.
Sorry if this comment is a bit of a mess.
I heard somewhere that spirituality is the easing of suffering. Maybe that was from Mark Manson (Subtle Art, YT channel, etc.).
Something in that statement works for me. I’m not superstitious nor do I hold beliefs in the supernatural. But I do undertake efforts to ease suffering - whether that’s meditation, readings, or reflection.
I think many have a spiritual need. Anxiety, depression, grief, changing moods, and more reveal that need. There’s an emotional (“spiritual”) suffering that we hope or need to salve.
Then I think we overshoot the mark.
It’s easy to want concrete perspectives when the world is dark, unjust, or foreboding. Attempting to meet those need with concrete answers helps feed the rise of religion.
I can’t fault the feeling of needing certainty, but I’d hope we can find ways to ease suffering without the use of delusion or lies.
Having said all of the above, I’m an Atheist. I think in rejecting religion, we have, also, overshot the mark.
People need each other. We need the things and rituals that help us find or move closer to peace. We are emotional, feeling, social animals and we’ve wrapped ourselves in new certainties and - sometimes - self-righteousness.
We need people. We need respect. We need love. We deserve human rights. We, also, need to learn how to transcend some of our injuries so we can navigate more effectively. That can be family, community, or national politics.
I’m not talking about losing boundaries. I’m talking about using them differently. Yesterday was MLK Jr day. He set boundaries, but he didn’t do it in hate or overt shame and anger.
He just did the work that needed to be done with the clearest eyes he could. I hope we, the materialists, can find a realistic perspective that doesn’t over-celebrate reason, and forgets the rest of our experience.
Reason tells us we feel. We hurt. We hurt others. We need something (reality-based) that reminds us to tend to ourselves and our communities.
We need balance.
I’ve wandered some in my response. It helped me to type, maybe it helps someone else, too. Either way, I liked your comment and it spurred thought.
Thank you.
I think that there is a place in the human brain that is responsible for ‘spirituality’. Attempts at stimulating it can produce deep religious thoughts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet
Maybe it evolved as a buffer to store random ideas we couldn’t comprehend. Maybe as a social creator we need a section of our brain to produce spiritual ideas, to help with social cohesion?
IMHO, an easier explanation is that complexity, chaos and the unknown are scary, very very scary.
Things are a lot less scary and a lot more simple if all complexity is explained away by Deity, nothing important is random but rather controlled by said Deity and the unknown is replaced by some fable around Deity.
A mother losing her child in an Earthquake is easier to handle at an emotional level if “It was the will of God and that child went to Heaven” (which is pretty much what the typical Catholic Priest will say) than having to face it being merelly random bad luck and that young person she loved so much being gone forever. (It’s not by chance that for example Mormons during the period when they’re supposed to go out and preach their religion around the World will look at obituaries to find people to try to convert).
Blind faith is just a socially acceptable mental illness.
Feelings are a powerful force. It makes people feel good, why would they stop?
As a former Catholic, I can say at least personally, religion did not make me feel good. It made me feel like many thoughts and feelings I had made me a bad person. It made me smug and judgemental.
Yeah, but clearly it does make a lot of people feel good
Grooming from a young, impressionable age
They see reality as too dismal. With faith comes hope. Uncle Roy didn’t die and leave all of his children to suffer. He was called to heaven and God will look after them. You’re not trapped in your dead end job because of lack of aptitude or opportunity or generational life choices, It’s God’s willing if you just pray a little harder and donate a little more to the church everything will come together, and if it doesn’t, The Bible says something about not needing worldly possessions right?
