This is a chance for any users, admins, or developers to ask anything they’d like to myself, @[email protected] , SleeplessOne , or @[email protected] about Lemmy, its future, and wider issues about the social media landscape today.

NLNet Funding

First of all some good news: We are currently applying for new funding from NLnet and have reached the second round. If it gets approved then @[email protected] and SleeplessOne will work on the paid milestones, while @dessalines and @nutomic will keep being funded by direct user donations. This will increase the number of paid Lemmy developers to four and allow for faster development.

You can see a preliminary draft for the milestones. This can give you a general idea what the development priorities will be over the next year or so. However the exact details will almost certainly change until the application process is finalized.

Development Update

@ismailkarsli added a community statistic for number of local subscribers.

@jmcharter added a view for denied Registration Applications.

@dullbananas made various improvements to database code, like batching insertions for better performance, SQL comments and support for backwards pagination.

@SleeplessOne1917 made a change that besides admins also allows community moderators to see who voted on posts. Additionally he made improvements to the 2FA modal and made it more obvious when a community is locked.

@nutomic completed the implementation of local only communities, which don’t federate and can only be seen by authenticated users. Additionally he finished the image proxy feature, which user IPs being exposed to external servers via embedded images. Admin purges of content are now federated. He also made a change which reduces the problem of instances being marked as dead.

@dessalines has been adding moderation abilities to Jerboa, including bans, locks, removes, featured posts, and vote viewing.

In other news there will soon be a security audit of the Lemmy federation code, thanks to Radically Open Security and NLnet.

Support development

@dessalines and @nutomic are working full-time on Lemmy to integrate community contributions, fix bugs, optimize performance and much more. This work is funded exclusively through donations.

If you like using Lemmy, and want to make sure that we will always be available to work full time building it, consider donating to support its development. Recurring donations are ideal because they allow for long-term planning. But also one-time donations of any amount help us.

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    13
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Have you put measures into place to assure the quality of future updates? In the past several updates have caused issues. And recently 0.19.x broke federation for the most of us. And it took weeks to fix it and make Lemmy usable again.

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    13
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    When and how are you going to address the thousands of open issues in the Github repository, that contain UI bugs, missing error messages (something looks as if it was sent for example if you send a direct message with too many characters, but actually isn’t), backend issues and other assorted bugs?

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    33
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    What are the plans around admin tools?

    Instance owners currently gets notified when someone has reported a user for spamming or trolling, but frequently it’s a user that is not on his instance, so he can’t do anything about it. Wouldn’t it be better if instance owners got notified only when they can take actual action (like the user being registered on their instance)?

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      4
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      The AMA is upcoming on Friday, it’s not this thread

      Edit: Leaving this here cause why not

    • DessalinesOPM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      13
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      If you’ve been following our code commits / PRs, we’ve been adding a lot of mod tools improvements not just lately, but over lemmy’s entire life. I would even go so far as to say we have the strongest mod tools of any project in the fediverse, all the more necessary for us because of the community-focus.

      The upcoming roadmap for 2024 includes some mod additions, such as mod warnings, attaching report counts to items, viewing mod actions for items, etc.

      Instance owners currently gets notified when someone has reported a user for spamming or trolling, but frequently it’s a user that is not on his instance, so he can’t do anything about it. Wouldn’t it be better if instance owners got notified only when they can take actual action (like the user being registered on their instance)?

      Instance admins are responsible for what content their users see, so if a troll is visible to their users and ruining their day, then it should be taken care of everywhere necessary.

    • Possibly linux
      link
      fedilink
      English
      41 year ago

      I have seen this first hand. I think when someone hits report it needs to go to the moderator of the community. From there the mod should be able to forward it to where it needs to go.

      Instance admins should be able to intersect this process.

      • DessalinesOPM
        link
        fedilink
        English
        91 year ago

        There’s some more context for this in this issue, and we each have different views on it, because there are tradeoffs no matter what.

        My personal view (based on experience modding and admin’ing), is that we should prioritize handling a report ASAP, by the first eyeballs that see it, rather than whose jurisdiction it is. On all but the largest communities, admins are generally more active, and more likely to see the report and take action on it.

          • DessalinesOPM
            link
            fedilink
            English
            21 year ago

            That’s what we currently do ( as in the report goes to both mods of that community, and instance admins).

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    54
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    So many apps die before getting any users. For Lemmy however, when was the first time you really thought “Damn, this thing really might actually take off”?

    • NutomicM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      221 year ago

      Lemmy was meant to be a Reddit replacement from the beginning, so it was always supposed to take off. Even in the early days the tech was working quite smoothly and users were happy so there was no real doubt about it. The only thing missing were more users. However I had no idea how a real migration would actually look like, so it was really overwhelming when last year people started to flood in and everything got overloaded and broke down.

    • DessalinesOPM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      42
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      For me it was long before the reddit migration (which was ~7 months or so ago). I noticed lemmy slowly but surely gaining traction. It felt more dead than it does now, but the trend was slow and steady growth, which is always a great sign. People were using lemmy, liking it, and sticking around.

      At the same time, it was clear that we weren’t making the mistake of all the other reddit alternatives, by promising to be a free speech haven for bigoted communities. Those people actively did our work for us by warning their communities to stay away from Lemmy and its tankie devs, thereby making Lemmy a much more enjoyable place from the very beginning. That was a crucial test: we were not willing to sacrifice our values for growth’s sake.

      It’s great to see that positivity confirmed by a researcher who did a qualitative and quantitative analysis about Lemmy migration, and finding that >90% of people saw themselves using Lemmy in the long term. We can all be very proud of that, and it means we have a bright future.

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    15
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Any words for Zuck and Threads?

    Edit: on a more serious note, has Meta reached out to the Lemmy developers at all?

    • NutomicM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      101 year ago

      No, I guess they only care about Mastodon. I will just wait and see how that goes.

    • DessalinesOPM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      101 year ago

      We also blocked threats here already, and encourage other servers to do the same. FB is a rabid wolf that would love to be let inside the fediverse.

    • phiresky
      link
      fedilink
      English
      71 year ago

      So far it doesn’t seem like any company actually wants to compete in this space (longer-form somewhat text-focused communities). Even reddit is trying to become more twitter and less reddit.

    • DessalinesOPM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      91 year ago

      One that I can think of rn, is @[email protected] 's lemmy-bot, as well as ridoukousage’s TLDR bot.

      With the web being so ad-infested and completely owned by google, people have noted how the TLDR bot means they often don’t have to leave their lemmy app at all, and can stay behind its privacy shield.

      While of course I do think we can code a lot of functionality directly in to lemmy in a way that we couldn’t with reddit, there’s undeniably a lot of potential with bots that can do different things for us.

    • NutomicM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      51 year ago

      Any breaking changes which get implemented in the meantime. There are no specific plans.

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    321 year ago

    First, I want to say thank you for the incredible job you already have done in this area. However, do you have any thoughts on further improving some fundamental Lemmy UX painpoints? Examples such as:

    • Migrating accounts between instances
    • Tagging users across instances
    • Linking communities across instances
    • Finding communities across instances
    • phiresky
      link
      fedilink
      English
      7
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      For migration we recently added a feature to export your user data. But “real” migrating accounts is something I put on our “todo” list, though it probably also first needs a proposal to define how it should work exactly (should it still work when the original instance is down?) As soon as we start giving users more control over their private key issues start appearing like not having any infrastructure for key rotation / revocation. Without that it will only work when the original instance still exists.

      I’m not sure if by tagging users you mean linking / mentioning them? Or adding tags to them like you can tag posts / users on other platform. For tagging in general there’s a pending proposal https://github.com/LemmyNet/rfcs/pull/4 . So far it focuses on post tagging though to reduce the scope. I think the goal is going to be to start with one kind of tagging and add more kinds of tagging later.

      For improving cross-instance linking (both communities, posts, and users) we also have a open milestone. There’s a few spitballing issues about it, but no real concrete proposal on how to build it yet.

    • DessalinesOPM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      71 year ago

      As @[email protected] mentioned we have improvements coming down the pipe for linking content across instances.

      Community linking and user linking do work currently (for example I just linked phiresky above), and a community example would be [email protected] , but we could improve this by extending it to posts and comments, as well as creating a url link standard that would work across apps.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      101 year ago

      Migrating accounts between instances

      Isn’t that implemented in the 19.2 and later versions? I just migrated using that feature a few days back, worked quite well

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        6
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        That would be awesome if true. It’s progressing faster than I thought. I’m still just learning about the scaled sort and enjoying that new feature lol.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          21 year ago

          It’s only subscriptions, blocks, and user settings iirc. Your posts and comments don’t migrate for example.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            3
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Still that’s not bad. Wish they could get saved posts to transfer, too. That would be useful.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            41 year ago

            Importing posts and comments could cause a security risk if someone would to abuse that function.

            Even Mastodon doesn’t support it

            Mastodon currently does not support importing posts or media due to technical limitations, but your archive can be viewed by any software that understands how to parse Activity Streams 2.0 documents.

            https://docs.joinmastodon.org/user/moving/

            • NutomicM
              link
              fedilink
              English
              61 year ago

              More importantly it would make exports extremely large and would cause a lot of server load to import/export. Plus you would end up with duplicate posts and comments which seems like a bad idea.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          61 year ago

          I’m pretty sure it is there, you can export and import your subscriptions in the settings

    • JackbyDev
      link
      fedilink
      English
      71 year ago

      Can you add one to your list? Linking posts across instances? Like you can do !community@instance and the community will open viewed through your instance. But for linking posts there is no such equivalent. Like if I make an HTTP link it will be through my instance or possibly the one the community is hosted on which would be annoying for users of other instances.

      Also, linking communities across instances is possible already, but you can leave it up since it’s confusing. I still see a lot of folks try to do the reddit approach if c/community

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    481 year ago

    Not a question, just wanted to let you know I how much we appreciate and love you all for making Lemmy happen 🥰🥰

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    16
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    How do you feel about extreme right-wing instances like the late Wolfballs using Lemmy to promote and spread hate?

    • DessalinesOPM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      12
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I very much dislike it obviously, and I’m happy that one shut down. There have been others, but for the most part they’ve stayed away from Lemmy as “that software made by tankies.”

      Outside of making sure that we don’t platform them anywhere, there isn’t much we can do. Lemmy is open-source software after all, and a tool can be used for good or ill. As @[email protected] mentioned, coordinating on adding them to our blocklists and isolating them is the best option.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      71 year ago

      I hope they’re not too against it. I know they’re extremely left wing, which scared a lot of the centrists on Reddit. If they allow even right wing instances, then it emphasizes the project’s lakc of political bent, and encourages more mainstream people to join. The politics can be up to each individual instance to decide whether to defederate with those other instances or not.

      But that’s just my opinion, I’m also curious how the devs will answer.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        91 year ago

        I’m sure they’re probably not okay with it but also there’s not much they can do about it other than defederate .ml - such is the nature of open source software.

        • Calavera
          link
          fedilink
          English
          111 year ago

          Not that I’m suggesting it, but they could hardcode the defederation of those instances on the code and most admins wouldn’t bother to fork lemmy to remove it. Like in the past they had a hardcoded slur filter, but I think they disabled it because many slurs in English were regular words in other languages

    • Possibly linux
      link
      fedilink
      English
      41 year ago

      I think you should be careful with political hate. Its a slippery slope and should not be handled by a developer.

      Maybe we could simply focus on having clear rules for each community.

    • NutomicM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      131 year ago

      They were posting spicy memes but thats how the internet works. If you dont like it then dont visit there, just like you wouldnt visit 4chan. Lemmy is open source so anyone can use it for any purpose.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        71 year ago

        Wasn’t here back when it happened, but from what I know, it was straight up white supremacy shit. It got defed to death.

  • syd
    link
    fedilink
    English
    16
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Sorry for taking up all the space :) But please skip the ones you wish.

    1. How old are you guys? Can be a range if you want e.g. 10-15, 15-20 :)
    2. Do you know each other IRL?
    3. Which region do you live in? Like America, Europe, Asia etc.
    4. If Lemmy had 100 million users, would you still try to remain anonymous?
    5. Is there an instance admin you hate but can’t say?
    6. What percentage of users should ideally be in the largest Lemmy instance do you believe?
    7. If you had the chance to change the name Lemmy, would you?
    • NutomicM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      201 year ago
      1. Im 31
      2. Not yet, hopefully that will change in the future
      3. North of Spain
      4. Im not really anonymous, it would just feel weird to post here with my full name
      5. No
      6. Maybe less than 50%
      7. Im terrible with names so no
  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    101 year ago

    Regarding funding - Can you give a detailed breakdown of what you’ve gotten per year and from which sources since you started Lemmy?

    • NutomicM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      71 year ago

      From NLnet we had three funding rounds with 50.000 Euros each.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        8
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        It also doesn’t have historical data on i.e. how much NLNet contributed (which iirc, was a lot*)

        *(a lot in terms of donations - Lemmy devs are living below poverty line. Please donate)

  • syd
    link
    fedilink
    English
    7
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Cool! I had some personal questions in mind, apart from Lemmy. These won’t be a problem right?

    • NutomicM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      161 year ago

      No problem, thats why its called AMA. Of course its possible that your questions wont get answered.

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    101 year ago

    Regarding server architecture - How many users can the Lemmy network, or the fediverse as a total scale to, assuming the average person posts once per day and reads ~50 comments/posts a day?

    • NutomicM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      121 year ago

      Lemmy supports horizontal scaling, so in theory it is only limited by the amount of servers you can afford. Of course there are always unpredictable bottlenecks which need to be fixed, but no inherent limitation.

    • phiresky
      link
      fedilink
      English
      121 year ago

      The ActivityPub protocol lemmy uses is (in my opinion) really bad wrt scalability. For example, if you press one upvote, your instance has to make 3000 HTTP requests (one to every instance that cares).

      But on the other hand, I recently rewrote the federation queue. Looking at reddit, it has around 100 actions per second. The new queue should be able to handle that amount of requests, and PostgreSQL can handle it (the incoming side) as well.

      The problem right now is more that people running instances don’t have infinite money, so even if you could in theory host hundreds of millions of users most instances are limited by having a budget of 10-100$ per month.

      • NutomicM
        link
        fedilink
        English
        121 year ago

        In the future it could make sense to make a protocol extension to send multiple activities in a single HTTP connection. But for now its probably not worth the effort, considering that it would break compatibility with other Fediverse platforms.