I’m surprised the UK still has net positive movement considering we house the Queen of TERFdom.
Looks like it went pretty Conservative around the Corbyn era. This is misleading to people who probably think that Tories and Labour are the equivalent of Republicans and Democrats. If they want to show left vs right they should be looking at people leaning towards the likes of UKIP and the Brexit party.
With the shit show the conservative government has been recently I’m not surprised.
Well, perhaps the UK has a more… Traditional liberalism. One that sees the new king as a Young (albeit a tad geriatric) whippersnapper, you know? A liberalism that tries to conserve the olden times.
proud of the UK
I don’t know about beautiful data. That’s scary data :/
It’s only beautiful in that is well visualized. The data itself is scary.
The graps don’t represent the same amount of time while they are there for comparison. I wouldn’t call that well visualized.
South Korea is expanded, which reduces the appearance of disparity. Germany has an extra 10 years. But despite those issues the data is still compelling.
Do you know a community that fits?
The data is beautiful, it’s the implications that are ugly
Nah, here is fine, the data is presented beautifully.
Except the time frame is shifted for each graph
+1 this. This community isn’t about agreeing with the data, it’s about how it’s presented
No no, that’s not what I meant. I wasn’t trying to have a go at you. It fits here perfectly. I was just upset at the trend it was showing :\
I really don’t like that the graphs aren’t across the same period of time.
I didn’t notice until you pointed it out. Because why wouldn’t they be??
Presumably they are starting wherever the trend “started”, although I’d like to see what it was doing before that to see if this is an unusual trend or not
Because there’s lies, damned lies, and statistics…
How are they lies? Honestly asking. What facts can you put forth?
I can see SK being late to the game of polling in this context. They were culturally more Conservative and no major changes happened until after about the 2010’s. Once more of the West’s culture began bleeding into theirs thanks to the Internet which them bled back into ours.
UK and Germany are likely to have longer polls. Plus, they do not vote like the USA. UK is pretty Right wing comperatively speaking, and Germany has been pretty Left leaning for 20+ years. As I follow their politics.
I think it could be perceived as vague since the charts lack the above cultural reference points so albeit the changes are likely correct, their actual starting points are likely different and relative to themselves over being a 1:1 absolute to all. We would have to see the methology of how they did the polls. But the trends are likely correct.
As far as the USA, looking at the last election results by demographic seems to track with the USA chart. Specially among minorities.
Because gaps in data are a thing? I dunno, it doesn’t really seem to change the story or the outcome. Your concerns seem overblown.
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That’s funny, because that’s exactly what they did.
Then attention should be drawn to the fact that the timelines are different. The data is presented in a misleading way and we should hold ourselves to a higher standard.
Axes should remain the same with the lines missing at parts where there are missing data. This makes it clear
Omg I didn’t even notice that. It’s like the more you look at this the worse it gets.
I’m guessing the data sets they used were collected at different start times and they didn’t want to truncate it
yes thats probably why but then maybe they should’ve left a white space instead
Oh good, I’m better than the average man in something.
I don’t know how true this is. In my own experience most men I’ve interacted with in the past 10 years are more and more central and less solidly conservative over time. The trend seems to be moving towards liberal. Of course that could be where I live (suburbs in a 800K+ US city).
Trump had more white female and Hispanic voters his second run than the first.
I would take this data with a grain of salt. I’m sure this is self reported yes/no or excludes political vote markers. I’m not sure how they compiled the data when it shows it was simple yes/no to am I conservative or liberal at a glance.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/30/new-trump-poll-women-hispanic-voters-497199
More info because why not:
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/09/1053929419/feel-like-you-dont-fit-in-either-political-party-heres-why
The graphs show that though? Most men go down to around the “0” line.
Am I reading it wrong? Down is more conservative, no?
The line is where ‘central’ is
Right but I’m saying that in the past men were below the line and are moving up.
Well yes, moderate is more conservative than liberal. The US line for men also seems to skirt around the center line, plus there’s a reason MAGA people stand a chance so it brings down the average.
I guess what I’m saying is that it would be opposite from my experience. The line would historically be below 0 for men and overtime going up toward 0.
Perhaps more men seem to be getting sucked into manosphere / alt right circles since gamergate. But the US isn’t homogeneous either.
At the same time perhaps in some circles men are coming to a better understanding of patriarchy and feminism and moving more liberal. So there is a growing divide but unfortunately in raw numbers there is a slight trend toward conservatism.
Still, I think the entire graph and the data, semantics, and methods behind it deserve scrutiny. Like, exactly what views are being considered? Are there more women becoming socialist? Or socially progressive? Or what?
Have you not noticed the rise in groups like Proud Boys, Patriot Front, and the Three Percenters? Patriot Front has people on overpasses waving signs in my area and they are in the news several times per year for marching in different cities. Just the other day they were recorded in New York City, unable to figure out how to swipe metro cards to get into the subway, so dozens of them charged on through without paying, so it isn’t like they are staying holed up in rural militia compounds out of sight. Far right extremism is both active and on the rise locally and globally.
I’ve always chalked that up to the vocal minority. I know literally no one that admits to being apart of that and just by talking to them you can pretty quickly sus out what they tend to believe politically. People love to tell you their political opinion for the most part.
Suburbs tend to be more progressive than exburbs which are more progressive than a city in Boomfuck, Kansas. I think that controlling for your personal environment might lead to a more objective perspective of the world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias?lang=en
Fuck them for calling the left liberal. Liberals are the people who sell schools, hospitals, and social services to the lowest bidding private enterprise. A solidly right wing ideology that puts profit over people.
there are 2 types of liberal: economical and social
Some people intentionally mix these two up as part of balley and motte argument. Some people mix them up intentionally because they don’t know any better.
Neo-liberals, actually. Winston Churchill wasn’t doing any of that shit. Classical liberalism is fairly centrist, economically. Some things private, some things public.
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Looks like I need to move to the UK
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So what this is saying is that women are going to save our collective asses.
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And I don’t like how sparse the data points are but they went with a wobbly interpolated curve anyway.
That’s not an ideology gap, that’s feminism vs machism, by the look of it.
Here in South Korea - Both the liberal and conservative party are very conservative. It wasn’t until 10-15 years ago that women could even be the “leader” of the house. So the delta in conservative/liberal is more likely to do with economic/war policies with the North than much else (since men get conscripted, and North policies is one of the key differentiators between the 2 parties)
South Korea also has one of the biggest anti-feminism movements in the world. They just eliminated the gender ministry and rolled back protections for women. Not coincidentally, South Korea is Jordan Peterson’s biggest audience outside the US.
The translation of “gender ministry” is completely misleading, I don’t know why they made it that in English because that’s not what it is. In Korean it’s “여성가족부” which means “Woman’s family department”
Wouldn’t it be men making the decision on conscription policies though? A more liberal / less sexist government would be more likely to bin that.
The key difference I tend to see between men and women’s issues is that men’s issues are often caused by other men in power. Feminism, ironically enough, can also help with a lot of problems disenfranchised men have.
Sorry I’m rambling a bit.
Sooooo yes, everything you said is correct, but there’s a missing piece of context: binning the military would mean binning South Korea as we know it, so nobody (liberal or conservative) is in favor of binning it. The lines are much more murky.
Binning a sexist conscription system is not anything close to “binning the military”
It very literally is, in South Korea’s case.
How so?
Beginning to conscript women as well as men does not equate to abolishing the military, or am I missing something?
What? Do you want half the army shopping for new shoes to wear in the trenches while the other half has to wait for them at the shopping mall fountain?
Were you trying to be funny, or is that your genuine understanding of women in the millitary?
They could conscript women, but you can imagine how hard it would be for that legislation to pass.
Men are not a monolith.
right. Korean politics seem to come down to “aid vs embargo”. moon jae in was on the aid side, right? I haven’t followed the current prez, what’s their deal?
President Yoon is a fascist that got into power by targeting women and disabled people.
Damn. The ruling class sure was successful in creating new wedges to divide their work slaves. It is not even only con and lib, there are so many more ingroups nobody needs and “sOcIaL mEdIa” is the tool to brainwash us into hating each others guts.
Is this American liberal or real liberal?
Or American conservative or real conservative
It’s Burgerland liberal, which is center-left to right. Burgerland conservative is right to fash.
It’s relative to the nationstate’s domestic policies in question. And just a heads up, I know when people make statements like this it just reveals a lack of understanding regarding foreign countries’ domestic politics. However, it’s also important to point out that the meme itself is incredibly ethnocentric and is fundamentally based on a dismissal of the validity of political discourse outside Western Europe and North America. You don’t mean to be racist, right?
This “meme” is not ethnocentric. Liberalism has a definition. The meaning became lost to Americans thanks to two red scares and a cold war. So now you have centrists like Bernie Sanders calling themselves socialist, which is absolutely not true.
Liberalism actually has a lot of definitions. It is a classical philosophical concept, a modern political philosophical concept, a term to describe a lower value of risk aversion, a term to mean supplied in abundance, and (here) a political science term used to describe an entire half of a relative political spectrum whose center point is determined by the specific body politic being measured. So, big shooter, no you are mistaken at a very basic level. All nations have both a liberal and conservative spectrum within their own political system. And, just to raise your level of education on the subject, you know what? Even within those subgroups, there is a liberal and conservative divide based on the relative ideology of the subgroup. And fun fact, you can yet still divide those subgroups of subgroups — this is a large part of how the phenomenon of group polarization happens.
All nations have both a liberal and conservative spectrum within their own political system.
See, here we have an Overton window that only allows for liberalism, as if socialism doesn’t exist. As if the political spectrum only goes from center-left to right, erasing the left altogether. The left is erased because Burgerland purged them.
Bernie believes in the eradication of capitalism, he’s a socialist working in a fucked over Overton window that means the best policies he can argue for would fall under social democracy at best.
Which, to be very clear, makes him a raging commie by American political standards.
The only people who argue he’s a capitalist are people that think socialism is when poor.
Bernie believes in the eradication of capitalism
No, he believes in the eradication of “über” capitalism, as his new book states: It’s OK to Be Angry About Capitalism. He is a There Is No Alternative, Nordic model welfare capitalist. He never has and never will call for the abolition of private ownership of the means of production.
During Sander’s 2020 presidential campaign he called for corporate accountability reform which would have given workers the ability to elect a portion of the board of directors for the corporation they work for.
That is a feature of the Nordic model—as I said above—and is still capitalism: Worker representation on corporate boards of directors
I’m about as far-left as they come. I want to understand.
What would it mean in terms of policy to “call for the abolition of private ownership of the means of production”? Would you prefer something closer to the Meidner Plan? Because that’s further left than Bernie’s plan but could also be considered part of the “Nordic Model”.
As far as I can tell, this kind of rhetoric stems from a lack of understanding of the economic similarities between the “Nordic Model” and Chinese-style communism.
Socialism can develop differently in different countries. As such I believe that it’s better to engage in international solidarity, rather than nit pick differences.
But, I’m open to being wrong.
He specifically describes himself as a democratic socialist instead of a social democrat but I also haven’t read the book so feel free to quote an excerpt from it saying he thinks the capitalist model is the only viable one.
As a Swede, what he’s been advocating for doesn’t sound like the nordic model to me.
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“American” is hardly an ethnicity (except maybe if you are referring to native Americans of course), so this has nothing to do with racism. Secondly I assume the author of the comment is refering to the simple fact that the terms “liberal” and “conservative” have drastically different connotations in Europe and the US.
They also have drastically different connotations in America depending on whether the user can read a book.
I think it’s a higher bar of actually reading one. Only around 20% of Americans read a book, any book, within the ages 18-29.
Maybe the fact that conservative governments erode the rights of women?
I think that’s probably the biggest driver the last 10 years.
A FUCKTONNE of women I know became a hell of a lot less conservative when Roe Vs Wade was overturned.
This data is poorly presented and unclear. It may well have some really useful insights, but it’s definitely not beautiful.
