There are few things quite as emblematic of late stage capitalism than the concept of “planned obsolescence”.
When I was in 9th grade it was netbooks with Windows 7 and they were also terrible and fated for the recycling bin before I was a junior.
In most enterprise IT your lifespan for hardware is between 5 and 7 years maybe 10 for printers and network switches.
I’m sure most schools try to stretch hardware as far as it will go but IT would have known when they bought the Chromebooks that they’d not be long for this world as cheap as they were and that’s the price they would pay for paying such a low price.
I think what is sticking up the works is on an administrative level, higher ups are expecting IT departments to stretch EOL dates like they used to do with Windows machines but now they absolutely can’t and Admin didn’t plan to have to buy all new whether or not IT did
Comments upon comments ignorant of the realities of the privacy laws governing this domain and the implications on firmware, driver and OS security support. “Just install Linux on it” is a completely unworkable solution. As some have pointed out, the places where this is done have a much thicker IT departments staffed with higher grade professionals to make it work. The thing to be mad here about is the shit support from vendors across the stack. If I had to guess, the worst offenders are probably the SoC vendors who typically ship firmware and driver updates as is the tradition.
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Yeah, bulk imaging computers is really only limited to how many you can hook up to the network. I used to have to image hundreds of computers a day at times, and really the longest part was walking around and restarting them all so they’d PXE boot. The actual process maybe took 2 hours since all the computers were on 100Mb/s connections.
I converted one of these Chromebooks to Linux as a test project and the results were, not good.
To start, they have a bootloader lock screw under the motherboard, so you have to take the entire laptop apart to load anything but unsupported ChromeOS.
Then you have to use a Google tool, can’t remember the specific one, to swap the bootloader. That might be possible to automate but I didn’t look into it because…
… The hardware sucks. We’re talking like 4GB of storage on a lot of these Chromebooks. The driver support is all over the place, and there are issues everywhere even on “supported” distros.
With the vast amount of junk Chromebooks out there, I’m sure community hospice support will get better, but it’s never going to be an easy bulk conversion because of how common the bootloader locks are.
Thank you for sharing your experience along with that link.
That’s exactly the problem. The standard GNU/Linux distro isn’t suitable to allow carrying the responsibility that an innumerable number of users with physical access won’t be able to pwn those machines. Machines that are used by others too. You absolutely can make an OS like that out of Debian or Ubuntu, or what have you. Google has - Chrome OS - but it’ll take a significant development effort. You’d have to basically redo at least some of the work they’ve done. And let’s say you did all of that. Then you end up deploying it on an ARM-based fleet. And there’s a wild vulnerability in the WiFi firmware blob, and the SoC vendor no longer supports it. Every student has root and we’re back to the original problem. 👨🚀🔫
And that’s why instead of getting hardware from a vendor and hoping for the best, you might want to get it in writing that they’ll support their crap till a date. Then you stamp that as the EOL date for that laptop and you present it as part of the spec to whoever might want to buy this laptop. There’s no escaping this problem unless there are no proprietary blobs on the system, which is unlikely for ARM, or you have a solid development team and you’re large enough to have a source sharing contract with the vendor that lets your team fix the vulnerabilities and support the hardware for as long as you like. It’s probably much easier to achieve on x86, which costs more per unit up front.
I am actually curious as to how you would make a locked down managed linux OS akin to ChromeOS.
Because Linus Torvalds stupidly refused to change the Linux license to GPL3.
What difference would the kernel licence make in this context?
The service life of the devices was known up-front. You can check for yourself the service life dates of every Chrome OS machine here:
https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en
The correct deployment strategy would be to make a big purchase at the front end of a device’s lifecycle and then only replacements from then on out so that you get the most out of every machine. Future capital purchases would be with a new device and termination date.
I think this point is really important, and allow me to go one step further: I work in the public sector of education and purchasing technology is such a complex issue that IT governance has to be involved with decisions like this. That’s to say that, without a governing body to review purchases (outside of whoever handles the actual procurement, i.e. funds leaving the bank account), mistakes like this will happen.
We can be upset with planned obsolescence, but there’s distinctly a human error here where there wasn’t enough research and planning.
still using things like Google Chrome or Chromebooks in 2023 is actually reckless behaviour. stuff like manifest v3 and the web integrity api just prove that google will use their monopoly to take over the open internet
Yes, why have we as a society allowed Google of all companies to take over something as important as public education? It’s downright dystopian.
My 15 years old Linux laptop can still do everything (except gaming new titles)
Pffft… I can’t even get a laptop battery to last that long.
Why are schools pushing so hard for enslaved Linux laptops?
Easier to manage for IT would certainly be my bet, and appealing cheap contracts. Even those Acer Aspires so many schools used were double the price of these Chromebooks, so suddenly youre talking about nearly halving a ~$100k cost. Schools want things locked down and enslaved, they couldn’t care less that they are Linux under the hood. They don’t think like you and I.
Yep, this is it. I volunteered for my school’s IT department in high school, this was basically the logic. The laptops are cheap and easy to manage/administrate. Whether or not they were Linux was a non-issue.
Edit: also, since chromeOS is basically just a browser, there wasn’t much that could break, and if something did break everything was stored in google drive anyway, so you could just factory reset the device and hand it back to the student without needing to buy any kind of higher-level support contract.
Right? It’s basically short term thinking on the school’s part.
Yes!! Chromebooks have so much potential.
I have a cheapo 2016 acer Chromebook still going strong with Gallium OS. (An ubuntu based distro geared at low spec chromebooks.)
I, on the other hand, have a Lenovo Duet 2 which sort of sucked the day I bought it and has hardly gotten any better. I wanted a new Android tablet for taking notes and reading comics and there was just nothing else decent available a year ago. Specifically got an ARM one so it would reliably run Android apps. Which it doesn’t – it’s so unstable. Have to reboot it regularly when stuff stops working. The promise of Android apps on ChromeOS was more of a hope than a pledge.
Good thing it was cheap because this thing has practically no future for me. I regret everything about it.
Like with anything else, you get what you pay for. Buy a Samsung tablet next time.
same article mentions Chromebooks are a great alternative to Raspberry Pis – cheaper and come with a built in keyboard and screen for monitoring all your automation needs …
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I love this, the idea that the hardware is done once the software gives out is asinine. It’s also what companies have been selling us on for decades now. It’s long past time to rethink the idea of what hardware lifespan really looks like
That’s what they should be doing, but it isn’t what they’re going to do, unfortunately.
Kimathi Bradford, a 16-year-old Oakland tech repair intern, has looked into whether there was a way to replace the outdated Chromebook software with a non-Google brand, but it ended up being a lot of work, Kimathi said, and the open-source replacement wasn’t up to par. “It’s like the Fritos of software,” he said. “No one really wants to use it.”
Now, I’m not sure if what they tried was Linux, but I wouldn’t be too surprised. The younger generations grew up with smartphones; I feel as though operating systems will become more streamlined and opaque as time goes on. I suspect we’ll have to contend with the phonification of mainstream computing in the coming years.
Well, given that android would be Unix based he was probably talking about a Linux distro being a lot of work, which it can be if applied to individual computers, instead of a network.
“being a lot of work” = I couldn’t follow a guide.
Honestly, Chromebooks are among some of the easiest systems to boot a Linux distro on. Far easier than, say, Bootcamp.
- Exceptions apply to enterprise or education enrolled systems as they lock those devices down. Corporations and schools, however, do have the option to release the hardware and allow modifications to the system.
Right, but then multiply that guide x1000 systems, losing google enterprise, switching over to a unix directory system, setting up infrastructure, network shares, printers, and everything and it’s not just a guide - it’s a team of people working for weeks to get it set up. Of course to us it’s easy, it’d just be a computer or two. To an entire company/school it may be over a million dollars to swap over
You’re saying it’s over a million dollars to revive some chromebooks? Or to build out a system that is independent from planned obsolescence? For a school district that has to operate in the long term, I think one of those is a bargain.
Also, the cost of maintaining 2 vs 1000 systems obviously scales up, but it’s obviously not nearly linear. The difference in cost between managing 1000 and 2000 systems would be negligible.
The plan on a large scale with a team sounds good, but IT at schools is a total mixed bag due to budget, etc. I’ve seen some schools where IT is just burnt out and underpaid (can’t tell which came first) and sometimes the IT team will be an old head that still reminisces about Windows NT.
It would be cool if there was an independent team that resurrected those laptops for schools. I think the problem that arises though is security.
Right, for a huge enterprise they would probably honestly consider it, but a school with ~1000 students? Less? It’s going to be cheaper to trash those and get new ones. Don’t get me wrong I think it’s a terrible waste and Google is horrible for putting them in this situation, and I’d love for the open source community to offer some scripts for wiping, installing ubuntu, setting up ACLs, connecting to a domain, connecting shares, etc, but still most schools are going to see this and just say “Okay google how much money do you need for us to keep working?”
Agree. I’ve got a chromebook running Linux, for that I had to open it up and remove a screw. It takes around 15 minutes if you’ve done it before, so for bulk migration to Linux it’s not feasible.
You had to remove a screw to install Linux? Is that like a physical tampering prevention measure? Makes me think of how I had to swap a jumper to install a GPU in an old HP tower that had integrated video.
Yes it’s exactly that, check out this documentation.
@UngodlyAudrey @cerement there’s chrultrabook project focused on allowing to install Windows or Linux https://chrultrabook.github.io/docs/
@selfisekai @UngodlyAudrey @cerement
Person you’ve linked to clearly didn’t bother reading the documentation.
Ubuntu is unsupported (any distro that sticks close to mainline will work).
RW_LEGACY doesn’t work correctly, newer models don’t use WP screws anymore.@elly @selfisekai @UngodlyAudrey @cerement To be fair, that Substack article was written in May, before Chultrabook documentation pages were written - and before that there were only some random pages and the whole Discord server.
I think that instead of pointing kiddos to Discord server and serving them one by one, the focus should be moved to polishing documentation, so everyone could at least throw a link to the part explictly noting that RW_LEGACY/Ubuntu/something other is broken/unsupportable .-.
@BluRaf @UngodlyAudrey @cerement @selfisekai Yep, that’s what we’re doing
It’s not a sensible path for a school with budget constraints (which is most schools). They would need to come up with a new MDM solution because they can’t manage their computers with Google anymore. So their IT costs would increase dramatically, probably more money than they would save by keeping the old hardware alive. The simplest path forward is to just buy new Chromebooks.
I haven’t (will never) had the experience of owning chromebook as a student, what does the MDM will do here? Cheating prevention?
It grants the IT department authority over the devices. Restricting unauthorized changes like adding new accounts, adding new software, removing existing software, allows for tracking of the devices and sometimes remote wiping in case the device is stolen or lost and valuable data is on the device, among other things.
Less to do with cheating and more to do with control over the device since it’s the school’s property. Preventing cheating is an afterthought of MDM (mobile device management).
I wonder what it would look like without these measures?
Back in My Day™, we had minimal MDM on the school computers.
Yes, the kids that wanted to fuck around (look at porn, download music, play games) fucked around, but they would have the old-fashioned way, anyway. The most common thing was just changing the desktop photo to a Lamborghini, or something. Anyway, we turned out…. Well… not necessarily ok, but I don’t fault the computers for lack thereof where applicable.
Admittedly, these weren’t personal laptops but just ones in the library or computer labs, but still.
Same thing it does for any instution that loans out hardware, e.g. employers:
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monitoring
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remote lockdown / wipe
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remote management of installed software
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etc.
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Mobile Device Management, aka the administering of software to a fleet of devices.
What kind of monster doesn’t like Fritos?
Sorry but Fritos of software is dumb & in no way representative of bringing old chromebooks back to life beyond their support date.
Schools often buy the bottom baseline of everything & in now way was a 4gb of ram a good, decent or proper experience to begin w/ & their replacements probably also had 4gb of ram - just a faster cpu, gpu & ram to hide that it’s lacking ram still.
I think schools could easily band together & make their own education focused Linux distro & then just focus on hardware that’s compatible w/ that’s Chromebooks or Windows laptops. Hard part would be building out an on par MDM &/or ldap server if not using a Windows server.
All Chromebook are is a browser basically. It already is the bag of Fritos imho. I think the hard part though would be to hire an IT guy that knows Linux better than the students tbh. Schools already under pay teachers in the US & that goes 2-3x for IT staff.
I mean, underpaid IT aside, do they need to be better than the students?
We like to organize school like there’s rules, you follow them, and if you do better it must be because you are better.
But thats not how the world works, and it’s not how technology works - it’s all about understanding the system and looking for loopholes
Is it better to enforce absolute control though? It teaches you nothing but how to be a good cog in the machine.
Teaching you that the rules aren’t absolute, but requires skill and legwork gives you a mindset to actually succeed in our warped little resource allocation game. Instead you should teach them to consider the effects - if they crash the network, make school suck for everyone for a few days.
But as to your original point, you still need an admin who can at least manage the network, and they should be given the funds to pay for that
As a lover of Frito pie, I take offense to this
I take offense to the idea that there is something called Frito pie, and worse, that your comment leads us to believe, hopefully errantly, that somebody has concocted such an abomination.
Why would you subject yourself to eating something that’s famous for smelling like the bacteria that festers between dogs’ toes: https://be.chewy.com/is-this-normal-why-do-my-dogs-feet-smell-like-fritos/
I’ve heard of CS majors coming in these days not knowing what a filesystem is.
so they think that reformatting is wiping the drive clean instead of recreating ntfs/exfat metadata files
A decade or more of kids growing up with shitty toy computers instead of real computers will do that. Mobile OSes, in their ridiculous pursuit to dumb down the computing experience, have dumbed down the computer users.
There seems to be a sweet spot in age where you grew up with actual computer experience. Young enough to actually grow up with computers in your household and school but old enough for those computers to not be toy mobile crap.
I’m very glad mobile Linux phones exist now. Having a real computer in my pocket rather than some awful imitation of what a computer should be is refreshing. I always wanted a pocket computer as a kid, but then when it actually happened it felt nothing like a computer unless you hacked it.
The first PC my family had, and thus first computer I had extensive experience with, was a Dell Pentium 4 running XP. Yeah, obviously I used a file system implicitly, but I remember thinking later when I entered college and the workforce that I was deprived of learning how to use a “real” computer because I didn’t get to experience the consumer PCs of the 80s. I didn’t have experience with a C64, I didn’t need to learn BASIC or a command line just to use the computer. As a user, understanding how reads and writes to disk happened, and how to make the best use of my working memory wasn’t necessary, the OS handled it all. I just needed to know to click “eject” first. And yet I’m doing fine (I think :D).
My point is, every generation will be able to say “I grew up with a dumbed down computing experience”. But I’m more optimistic about this I think. I welcome a generation of computer scientists who think completely differently about how files should be organized. It’s not important that I know BASIC, and maybe it’s not important that today’s students think in terms of file systems. They’re still smart people, they’ll still need to learn trees and graphs to solve problems. They just won’t be pre-programmed with assumptions and requirements that may not exist anymore or in future hardware.
2023 python programmers not understanding why you need to use the context manager when you open files (or not learning c++ first) “whats a file socket?” “why do exceptions mess everything up” “__exit__ worse than c++ destructors” (if they even know dunder methods and didn’t have python as a first language) “whats the big deal if you don’t close a file”
Anyone know where I can buy or place bids on batches/pallets/etc of them? I want to self host a bunch of shit using those cheap computers that are being thrown out.
Sourcing Chromebooks from the Reviving Chromebooks with Ubuntu I posted elsewhere
easiest looks like just calling the IT department of your local school
Interesting article, I don’t think I have a use for them though.
Same here!
I agree that this is very bad on google’s part of course, however I don’t think the schools should just lie down and take it. As others have said, installing their own OS should be the way to go. It doesn’t need to be 1 person manually installing the OS on each laptop, there are Infrastructure automation tool like Ansible that can, once set up, manage installation and configuration of an arbitrary number of devices. All the device needs to do is launch a web browser from what I understand, and pretty much every linux distro should be able to do that. If they choose one with a friendly DE, then it makes it easier to use for the kids. The devices will most likely run much better on an OS without bloatware too.
“These updates depend on many device-specific non-Google hardware and software providers that work with Google to provide the highest level of security and stability support,” said Peter Du, communications manager for ChromeOS. “For this reason, older Chrome devices cannot receive updates indefinitely to enable new OS and browser features.”
Bull. Shit.
Fuck these Corporations, the only reason for this is to get the public school systems to constantly buy new chromebooks.
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The solution is to let people use the device in any way they want and can. Software should not dictate hardware obsolescence.
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FYI Most Chromebooks are Intel CPU computers, there are a few arm based ones but majority are Intel x86_64.
If I’m reading this correctly (and you need to read between the lines a bit), it’s not that they literally don’t work, it’s that they aren’t capable of getting security updates. For playing Minecraft, who cares, but schools are legally obligated to keep private student information (like all their schoolwork) secure.
It’s not like there’s a LineageOS for Chromebooks and standardized firmware and drivers that can be easily deployed and updated. They mentioned in the article that open source alternatives were trialed, but that they lacked needed features and were very costly (in time, presumably) to get working.
This is just a shit sandwich all around.
From another perspective, several schools I’ve worked at have had so much vandalism and theft of Chromebooks that they won’t even consider replacing them with more costly future-proof tech. It doesn’t matter if they get 8 years of software support if students break most of them in years 1-3.
It’s not like there’s a LineageOS for Chromebooks and standardized firmware and drivers that can be easily deployed and updated. They mentioned in the article that open source alternatives were trialed, but that they lacked needed features and were very costly (in time, presumably) to get working.
You can run Linux on them, it’s the cost of getting a bunch of shitty ass chromebooks done that’s not worth it for schools.
This is exactly the issue for me. Devices used by 10-18 yo students do not last 10 years, and so it doesn’t matter if they get software support for that long.
My 12 y/o has gone through 3 Chromebooks since the pandemic, but they are $50 refurbished so who cares
Edit I have a gaming rig, and he uses the GeForce cloud gaming service on his Chromebook, and he loads into Fortnite faster than I do when we play duos
Aren’t most Chromebooks out there Intel CPUs and essentially PC hardware? I know there are a few arm ones but it’s not most of them.
I have an 8 year old iPad that can still use Amazon video and can still run Netflix, and google drops support for these computers as early as 3 years. I’m not an Apple fanboy but that is absolutely ridiculous.
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has to be dumped
OpenCore Legacy Patcher, Linux, ChromeOS Flex, and maybe even Windows 10 could all be options for that Mac. As-is ot would still be perfectly safe to use offline too.
What year is the mini from? I run a Plex server off a 2010 Mac mini.
Apple devices are serviceable for far longer after the OS stops updating than windows/android devices in my experience. But regardless, Apple doesn’t discontinue support as early as 3 or 4 years. Even you have to admit that is ridiculous of google.
Huh? I have an ipad mini and since two-three years ago it’s as useful as a brick, Apple doesn’t allow me to install any app because they require a newer os version (that’s not available for the model)
By contrast my much older nexus 7 can still use most apps that I want
It can’t run everything obviously but the fact that my nearly 10 year old iPad can handle video streaming still and these schools have bricked laptops after 3 years is ridiculous.
Those Chromebooks aren’t bricked. They simply don’t get chrome updates anymore, even if it’s just Linux+Chrome and updates could continue forever without any real effort from Google
For security issues they can’t give to students unsupported hardware. The discontinued iPad would go in the same e-waste bin, because it’s not like android where browsers will continue to get updates for years and years
For a school they functionally are. They can’t use them if they can’t get security updates.
and instead the ipad that doesn’t get security updates since 2018 in your example doesn’t count?
Well for starters it wasn’t purchased by or for schools so no. But even if it was, it gets far more than 3 years of support. I think 5 is somewhat reasonable if we’re just going to accept this sort of behavior.
Either way the comparison is not really apt. Mobile devices are far worse about this than PC’s. You should instead compare a macbook (or a cheap windows machine), which gets security updates for 7-10 years. Google knows their devices are very popular for school computers, so to treat them like mobile devices and enforce the terrible standards that comes with is pernicious.
I will give credit to Apple on that one because android phone manufacturers are now supporting their phone for longer because of how long Apple is supporting them.
But for their laptops the support has dropped to the lowest in years. Some intel MacBooks no longer get the latest version after 6 years.
Confused noise from people who grew up using Windows 95.
I think the more probable reason is that EU regulators were unhappy with this for a long time and have now put 3 years of OS updates and 5 years of security updates into law. Low cost Android manufacturers don’t care what Apple does.
I remember back in the day when I had apple devices where they would push updates for devices long past their capability to actually run the updated software. Rather than refuse the update or get a pruned patch with security fixes only, it would force updates and bloat your phone and grind it into unresponsive unusability after a few years.
I hear that’s not so much the case anymore, so that’s nice. But I remember. The main reason I upgraded my phone was because of that, the hardware was great, but I could hardly use the software anymore even after clean installs.
My point being, I guess, extended support is great if managed properly but it can also become a bludgeon with which to drive you toward the new generations of devices.
long past their capability to actually run the updated software
Well, Apple intentionally slowed those devices down to make the users update, instead of using an insecure device, that would’ve provided a good experience otherwise.
And these days Apple is retiring devices arbitrarily for profits too. For example this year they are retiring the Iphone 8, which has better hardware, than the ipad 2018 that is still being supported…
That slowness was, at least officially, for the battery health. Do you have the support to prove otherwise?
And then if I recall correctly (though I can’t be bothered to look) didn’t they get sued for slowing phones?
So people were mad that their phones battery wasn’t holding a charge anymore, “im being forced to upgrade”, so Apple throttled older phones to keep the battery running, aka allowing people to keep their phones longer, and then they got sued for slowing down phones lol.
I am an apple fan boy, I wont hide that. But it does seem like they tried to do a “good” and make peoples phones last longer, and then got sued.
Also the whole forced upgrade just isn’t apples game IMO. Do they want you buying the new one every year, of course. But the more important thing is that you keep using AN iPhone at all. Stay in the ecosystem, stay in the app store, stay paying for icloud, etc.
Going to a new phone gives the user a window to move away from IOS. (Though most won’t haha)
Actually yes. I bought a brand new -discounted old stock- Iphone 4s for my mum near the end of the ios 8 cycle. The day before we installed ios 9 on it, it had okay performance and good battery life. Following the update to ios9 the performance went to complete shit. (the battery remained usable for 2 more years after, but it was not a good experience for her)
How does that prove that it was not for your battery health?
These conversations bring the weirdest people out of the woodwork. I remember talking with a guy who explained to me how crap Apple laptops were because you (according to him) can’t customise them. Turns out he’d never owned or even used an Apple laptop. I was like, why do you care?! Especially about something you have no experience with!
The problem is that those people often can’t read. Everyone has a biased opinion or two they forgot to back up with support, but those people can’t be argued with. I want to know how to talk with them.
You’re also not a giant customer who needs security and it services like a school district. 3 years might be early, idk, but in plenty of enterprise or institutes replace their hardware every so often.
Hih
My 2012 laptop runs windows 10 perfectly fine and has the latest security updates. We’re way past the point of using hardware limitations as an excuse for companies to drop support early.
I don’t see why a school should have to replace their basic computers with an equally basic computer after 3 years unless it’s broken beyond repair. I don’t think the OS itself is doing much more than what an enterprise copy of windows does for security.
The only reason Windows 11 can’t run on super old hardware is because of the misleading decision to require secure boot (a feature of the motherboard that stops unsigned OSes from booting). The metaphor I use is that it is like a car radio manufacturer refusing to let a car radio work in cars that don’t have car alarms then calling the radio secure because of it.
Yeah, Windows 11 is a bad example of supporting old hardware because Microsoft stupidly and maliciously requires secure boot and TPM2 just to lock out otherwise fine hardware from using Windows 11. You can run Win11 without secure boot or TPM2 with mods, the hardware is perfectly capable.
Or just put Linux on it. Linux runs on damn near everything because it’s designed to run on damn near everything. There’s no profit motive to only support Linux on the newest and shiniest devices like there is for Apple, Google, Samsung, and even Microsoft (who sells most copies of Windows preinstalled on new PCs).
How do I go about running Win 11 without secure boot? I have a BIOS motherboard from 2009. Windows 10 is EOL relatively soon. I plan on getting a new computer and using some genre of Linux but I’m curious what to do about the current one.
The secure boot requirement can actually be circumvented pretty easily
Give me the deets please 👍
Funny you should say this. I have a 2012 Retina Macbook Pro, and yes it is running Windows or Linux with all the latest updates. However, Apple stopped supporting it in 2020. It’s too old for MacOS updates.
I’ve even seen a guide that will allow me to hack past the normal BIOS restrictions/allow me to put Windows 11 on it.
Apple does the same thing if you don’t already have those installed
My 2nd gen Apple TV is garbage. Nearly all the apps fail to load now. 🤷♂️… I suppose I can try jailbreaking it but it sure feels like someone is trying to force me to upgrade my hardware.
That’s a product that hasn’t had an Apple update since 2014. What realistically do you expect hardware manufacturers to do with actually old hardware? Lose money supporting it forever? This is kind of the opposite case from the chromebooks.
I have a 15 year old laptop that can still browse the web and play YouTube videos just fine because PC is a standardized platform with an open standard bootloader and a BIOS/UEFI system designed to abstract the hardware so the OS doesn’t have to be tailor-made to the hardware. Mobile devices are absolute shit in this regard. Why does the OS have to be specifically built to target one particular device?
It shouldn’t. End of question. This applies to Android, ChromeOS, and Apple devices equally.
I’m glad mobile Linux is starting to take off and there seem to be some standards emerging around ARM booting, even if it is still an absolute shit show compared to the standardization of UEFI/BIOS on x86/x86-64. I know some ARM systems can UEFI boot but it’s few and far between still so most devices still need a tailored kernel at least. That said, ARM Linux doesn’t need the entire freaking stack tailored to a device like Android and iOS do.
Couldn’t agree more. Every computer I have, no matter how old, can connect and do most things fine.
Companies making mass market devices should be required by law to support them indefinitely, or until they publish the technical specs sufficient for community support and repair.
The upgrade cycle they’re allowed to get away with today is not only a ridiculous drain on people’s money, but also a shameful source of pollution and waste.
until they publish the technical specs sufficient for community support and repair.
I want to see phones with no further official OS support have their boot loaders opened up so a lightweight OS can be installed on them instead. I’ve had iPhones in the past that have been absolutely rock solid after a battery replacement that lost iOS support, and with that a whole bunch of resale value. So I now tend to sell mine a year or so before they’re likely to be dropped.
But I genuinely think that I’d hold on to an iPhone that could have an alternative OS installed. This is, of course, why none of the major manufacturers allow this. Gotta put the profits ahead of the ethics.
Actually in the Android community Sony helps you unlock your bootloader and offers official AOSP sources for their devices that you can compile and install yourself.
I have no idea why people are enamored with Samsung.
Ad campaigns, most likely. I always seem to see ads for Samsung phones, but not as often for Sony brand ones. I do agree Sony does a much better job about opening up the bootloader, versus Samsung punishing you for trying to open your own paid for device up.
Exactly, bootloader locking should be downright illegal. If EU wants to make phones last, they need to mandate that you can unlock the bootloader (WITHOUT bullshit like having to get an unlock code from the manufacturer). Want to lock it down for certain software features like payments, etc? Ok, fine, I can live with that, so long as I can unlock it if I so choose and keep all HARDWARE functionality intact.
On another note, the manufacturers should be upstreaming and mainlining their drivers in the Linux kernel. ChromeOS and Android are both built on Linux, yet they keep all their hardware support in forks and branches that are left to wither and die rather than submitting those changes upstream. Only a select few ARM SoCs have mainline support. If the companies would just put a bit of extra effort into doing things right rather than the shitty hack jobs they do now to get products out the door as fast as possible, we could have a much better ecosystem around old phones. Of course, the shittiness is by design.
Honestly people should stop buying Google products…
I have preordered a framework laptop which will run Linux until it fucking blows up or falls apart.
Enough with being screwed over by well known brands whose interest is just selling you more and more stuff.
Chromebooks expire? What the fuck? Are there logistical problems with installing Linux on these devices?
I think its more that Google supports them for only so long and then they go bitrotten. The final update for these devices should also unlock the firmware so people can wipe the device and install Linux or something on it.
Chromebooks are unfortunately meant to be disposable like phones. Nobody should buy one, but unfortunately schools get them because they’re cheap.
On an individual basis you can install Linux, but for millions of devices thrown out by schools around the world, there’s no solution because the residual value is so tiny, you’d have to pay the techs minimum wage and hold a gun to their heads to get enough devices per hour to justify it.
I used to work at a refurb place and when we saw a chromebook that wasn’t immediately OK (it could’ve had a bad display or keyboard, or locked to an account), we just removed the eMMC, smashed the chip and threw the device on our scrap pallet.
Give them to the kids with a QR code guide sticker about installing Linux on them? I’m not a kid, but I would love if someone “threw” a couple of these in my general direction.
Most of these Chromebooks are 3-4 years old and in really rough shape. Kids use these things for literally everything. You likely wouldn’t even want them for free. Probably bio-waste at this point.
A friend asked me to fix their daughter’s desktop and also asked if she could borrow an old laptop to use in the meantime. The desktop was disgusting with food smeared all over the keys and display. I cleaned it up and fixed it and sent it back. My laptop was returned with food smeared everywhere after just a few days. I was stunned.
Almost certainly not allowed, schools are responsible for privacy and security on these devices.
Any standard desktop linux is more private and secure than google spyware
And as soon as the IT guy at school installs Linux on these machines, he’s responsible for said privacy and security. And he’s a lot easier to sue than Google if something goes wrong.
This is exactly why right here, cost aside.
I would not hand out hundreds of Chromebooks to kids running some Linux distro I installed even if I could. It’s critical to have full manufacturer support in these types of environments.
Yes but there might already be personal data on them from the child, so they cannot give the chromebooks out before wiping them, which seems hard to do so they just bin em.
Is there something preventing the use of ansible or similar, to handle the installs?
Ansible probably doesn’t change UEFI settings or switch off the hardware lock that some Chromebooks have for installing a new OS.
You have to remember that these things cost like 200 USD new and they’re utterly underpowered. By the time they stop getting updates, they have so little residual value, it’s literally not worth salvaging them.
Phones shouldn’t be disposable either, I’m coming up on five years on mine.
They shouldn’t be, but they’re designed to be, especially Androids with their abysmal software support period.
I guess mine is unusual then. I still get very regular security updates, and battery life though noticeably shorter, well, it’s still okay.
Not really, but it’s almost impossible for a school to pull that off and still get the support needed. Don’t forget that new Chromebooks are dirt cheap, after all discounts probably in the 100-200$/€ range. It’s (sadly) just not worth it salvaging them.
the Chromebooks with ARM processor (the majority of the cheaper ones) are notoriously known to be awful to install any alternative operating system
Those are great for hosting a Ubuntu server (as long as they are not CPU intensive). You can buy a dongle to connect it to the router for Ethernet, then add a SD card or connect a hard drive by USB and it’s quite solid. There’s a few tweaks needed but it’s an incredible learning experience.
