He was abducted by Hagrid when he turned 11 so that would place him maybe around the fifth or sixth grade.
I don’t know if canonically there are math classes at Hogwarts.
The thought came to while I was watching the anime Mashle. If you are into Harry Potter and One-Punch Man I’d recommend giving it a watch.
Someone mentioned this community below; I wanted to highlight it.
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To be fair, I suspect the average adult in real life probably only remembers, and uses, 5th grade math.
I bet I couldn’t help a 5th grader with their math homework.
Most people couldn’t, but that’s mostly to do with the way math is taught differently… (“New math” is better, fight me!)
can you add fractions?
Facts
Source: self
So that would put him only a couple years ahead of most republicans
They have arithmancy but Harry never took it AFAIK
Okay dude… Because of YOU I started watching Mashle and I’m not even big into anime. I’ve watched a few and like some occasionally…
Mashle is awesome. Damn/thank you.
That makes me glad I included that with the post
YEAH! Where’s the book where he just does algebra and other boring shit for 300 pages.
You don’t want to learn avada kepolynomials?
I mean, the very existence of magic kind of nullifies the concept of math as a means to ascertain objective fact.
What good is 2+2 when 2 eyes of newt plus 2 legs of frog leads to random quantities of dancing forks with literally no respect as to the how because magic?
Math can’t quantify a world where physical laws are replaced by literal nonsense, and if math could ultimately explain the mechanics of magic and predict the outcomes of its applications, the magic wouldn’t be magic anymore, it would just be another great force of the universe like gravity or electromagnetism to be mapped by the scientific community.
Exactly what more than 5th grade math do you need in such world?
I think a lot of people forget what they learn in 5th grade math. You learn negative numbers. You learn unit conversion, fraction, prime, square roots.
Would more math help absolutely. Especially with the logic wizard seems to lack. But it is not like many people use higher level math today anyway.
What they lack is knowledge about volume and surface calculation. That is some stuff you definitely need in life. That wizards don’t need analysis or Calculus is kinda obvious.
For trivial calculations that’s still going to be accessible just by looking up a formula. For more complicated ones… I can’t remember the last time I needed something like that. What sorts of use cases are you thinking of?
I always wondered the opposite of the harry potter universe.
So much of math was difficult to teach or obscure because of difficulties in visualization or computation. Surely there would have been at least one wizard over hundreds of years that could figure out how to use the powers of illusion magic to visualize things? To demonstrate integrals to the unfamiliar? To render a fractal like a julia set?
Even if magic iteslf followed little internal logic, it could be used as a tool, surely? But that’s the sort of fridge logic (warning tv tropes link) that maybe didn’t belong in a story book like Harry Potter. I had to stop reading anyway around the time house elves were introduced, anyway. I took issue with that stuff even when I was a kid.
That’s where arithmancy comes in.
If you haven’t already, take a peek at Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality. It’s fanfiction, but absolutely worth a read.
To add, the podcast is phenomenal. Definitely worth listening to as well
Oh man I totally forgot about that! Oh nice they have it in ebook and pdf formats now
Just a warning: this takes pretty much every bad FF trope you can think of and turns it to max. Awful reading.
pretty much the only character with real, proactive agency in this story is Quirrell
I stopped reading it halfway through, and was too lazy to figure out why.
This explains it.
I have often suspected that that’s exactly what it is, there’s even clues of a genetic basis. How such a force can somehow be responsive to specific language is hard to imagine but evidently it can.
There are laws baked into it, just like the formula proposed above. For whatever reason it’s not only about intent, there are certain quantities of “stuff” needed. How is it that someone like Snape can map out such a specific spell, if it didn’t take some sort of physical dynamics that could be measurable. Spells can’t just solely be about intent, otherwise anyone could yell out “Cowabunga” or something and have it do whatever they are thinking. And I know some of the names have intent baked in them, but not all of them. Some are straight up nonsense. This doesn’t even get into the fact that the wands are a straight up conduit to magic that are controlled more heavily than guns in most nations. Maybe the wizards just hide all the dragons, Phoenix and unicorns like nation states gaurd WMDs. It would be smart, without them most easy magic would be impossible and stuff would really take elbow grease with potions and whatnot.
I think the one exception is their money, you definitely need some basic math to use it.
Hermione mentioned in the first book that wizards tend to absolutely suck at things that are typically Muggle, like logic, so it follows that they probably suck at math too.
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???
Reading is very common at Hogwarts and the wider wizarding world. Hogwarts has an extensive library, and most of their communications and news media are done over written mediums.
Contrast that to maths where the hardest thing most wizards would realistically have to do is basic money operations. Made even harder by their bonkers monetary system.
I think the OP meant that if they all stopped learning maths at 10, and there was no English class at Hogwarts, they probably stopped learning to read at 10 as well (well, the Muggles anyway, there’s no mention of how the Wizards learn anything before 11 I don’t think?).
There wouldn’t be additional English literature classes, sure, but by age 11 it’s mostly just practice and looking up words you don’t know anyway.
I think that’s a bit over simplified. Do you think they’d be able to understand Shakespeare? Or a spell book from the same time as Shakespeare? There’s a reason we continue to teach English until a child leaves secondary/high school.
Do you think they’d be able to understand Shakespeare? Or a spell book from the same time as Shakespeare?
The bigger question is, do they need to understand Shakespeare?
Shakespeare is important in UK Muggle culture, not so much elsewhere, including the wizarding world which very much has their own cultural icons.
They probably aren’t getting their spells from books that old either. The reason we don’t transpose Shakespeare to modern language is the loss of artistic intent in the process. Something that wouldn’t apply to purely factual books like a spell book.
Besides, they are expected to learn Latin; that’s where their spells come from.
She successfully brewed a complicated polyjuice potion that took months to make by just reading and following the instructions in the book when she was 12. She reads just fine.
But all wizard books are scribbled in crayon
Logically, that does follow, but we’re talking about wizards here.
True, but their methods of learning do not differ significantly from that of muggles. They still need to take classes the same way we do, and this would need to learn maths and logic the same way too.
Whoosh?
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That’s probably why wizards don’t run the bank 😂
arithmancy - which is pseudomaths in a sense…
I don’t remember where the books said it, but I remember them saying that they go to school before hogwarts the way that we go to school there just isn’t magic. Harry and Hermoine talked about going to school.
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Please stop.
JK sees the continued support of her work as proof that her views are supported. She is doing active harm to people lives. I know it’s common to say seperate the art from the artist, but that only applies to the dead. Rowling is alive and using her profits to write hateful proganda and restrict healthcare from an already marginalized group. I’m not ever going to tell someone what they can and can’t read, just please recognize the harm it does by promoting her. It’s the same as promoting the works of David Duke.
Thank you.
Hello,
Thank you for your comment. That’s one of our main threads, “On the sensitive topic of being a Harry Potter fan while acknowledging JKR’s transphobia” https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/9633657, quoting https://www.popsugar.co.uk/entertainment/harry-potter-fans-jk-rowling-transphobia-essay-49214964
Still, there may be a way to enjoy Harry Potter as a trans person or ally. Over the years, many fans have found creative ways to engage with the series’s magic while also acknowledging its creator’s bigotry. In her paper “Transformative Readings: Harry Potter Fan Fiction, Trans/Queer Reader Response, and J. K. Rowling,” Jennifer Duggan, an associate professor of English at the University of South-Eastern Norway — says that it’s possible to interpret the text of Harry Potter itself in ways that would certainly horrify its writer. “My central thesis—one which has also been argued by other academics like Thomas Pugh and David Wallace — is that the Harry Potter novels are deeply queer,” she tells POPSUGAR. “I mean this in both senses of the term: they champion nonnormativity through the contrast of the ‘perfectly normal’ Dursleys and Harry, and they are, at their heart, a story about a boy with an ‘abnormality’ (as the Dursleys call his magic) who comes out of his cupboard under the stairs and discovers and finds and affinity for a hidden, colourful, queer world. I take this argument further to argue that the novels are easily read through a trans lens, since there is a focus in many of the books on shapeshifting, including several cross-gendered transformations.”
Fandom, she adds, can provide spaces where Harry Potter fans can explore the series’s queer undercurrents while celebrating their own sexualities. “From what I have observed, I have concluded that for the most part, the Harry Potter fandom continues to offer queer and trans fans a positive space,” she tells POPSUGAR. “The two main trends I have seen in fan works are an ‘answer hate with love’ reaction, in which fans focus on trans positivity, and so-called ‘spitefic,’ which are works that are framed as revenge on Rowling for the hurt she has caused. These works are usually trans-positive, too. That said, I fully understand why some fans feel they can no longer engage with the texts in any way.”
Link to the research paper: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10583-021-09446-9
Thank you for the reply, but I don’t see how that is relevant, you didn’t link to a queer fan fiction community.
Linking to a cis author who said that some fan fiction theoritcally helps some queer folk instead of listening to the trans community that is actively being hurt in substative ways by the celebration of Rowlings current work, not fan fictions, is sort of indicative of how much you actually care about this topic. Your link is filled promotion for her shows, art and discussion of Rowlings work. I’m sure you have been criticized before, but I feel like you are using an one-size-fits-all copy/paste as cover instead of actually engaging with what I, and the trans community, are saying.
I’m not going to argue, this isn’t how I wish to spend my time. All I can do is please ask you to stop and hope one day you will rethink what you’re doing.
The admin of the instance we host the community on is a queer Jewish man, who expressed his feeling about having that community on his instance in this comment: https://discuss.tchncs.de/comment/6746512
He is still okay with us having that community over there.
I don’t really engage in this community because of the discomfort Harry Potter generally brings me. I was honestly a bit relieved when it died.
The whole thing just upsets me honestly. Seeing the conflict is painful.
I don’t understand how you interpret this to think he approves. Twice now it seems like you are just reaching for “another person said it was okay” without really digesting what they said. Where exactly did they say they were okay with this community? It seems like they very much said the opposite.
there’s a big difference between consuming public domain work made by awful people who no longer receive profit whilst consuming work by a woman who is actively engaging in political campaigns to make trans peoples lives worse with the profit she still receives.
Which makes it very different than Poe, Doyle or Seuess that were named in that thread. She is alive and well, and using her platform and fan base to produce more hateful texts. (Bad Blood)
The core text of Harry potter itself has many ableist (Durdsley), racist (House elves enjoying slavery) , antisemitic (goblins) and transphobic (Rita Skeeter) themes even if it surface level against racism. His discomfort at the antisemitic tropes are entirely understandable, and while that is not something I am going to claim hurts me, it does seem to hurt Gabe.
As I said before, I’m not going to force you to do anything. Just please understand how you continued celebration of Rowling and her work is hurting others.
I don’t understand how you interpret this to think he approves. Twice now it seems like you are just reaching for “another person said it was okay” without really digesting what they said. Where exactly did they say they were okay with this community? It seems like they very much said the opposite.
I reached out to him in private, I wasn’t going to copy our conversation as it is private.
I was very ready to move that community elsewhere, and I refrained from posting for a week before getting Gabe’s approval.
The core text of Harry potter itself has many ableist (Durdsley), racist (House elves enjoying slavery) , antisemitic (goblins) and transphobic (Rita Skeeter) themes even if it surface level against racism.
That’s the first time I hear the treatment of Rita Skeeter is transphobic. James, Sirius and McGonagall are also able to shapeshift, and they are positive characters in the books.
For the house elves, the whole SPEW plot is designed to both make Ron (and the whole Wizard word as a whole) look stupid and bigoted, and Hermione a bit too self-righteous, as teenagers can be.
Relevant reference: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/122283/why-did-rowling-seemingly-make-light-of-the-house-elf-situation
I’ve seen several times that the fact that the society isn’t changed by the end of the last book as a critic, but do all work of fictions have to uphold their societies? Game of Thrones definitely isn’t becoming a democracy during the books, and Brigderton is as classist as it can be.
Plot twist: jk is a selfhating queer and her subconsciousness wrote Harry Potter to break free without disappointing her self hating parents.
That’s an interesting theory. He literally comes out of a closet, after all.
This response doesn’t address the legislation aspect of the critique. It’s an excellent response for if she were already dead and gone, but what about the harm that comes from supporting her now? Surely you have something to say about that, don’t you?
Hello,
You can see some initiatives that take the books away from her, such as this one
A trans artist resells Harry Potter books with new covers that omit Rowling’s name. Canadian printmaker and book artist Laur Flom, who is trans, garnered major attention when they began a project of buying secondhand Harry Potter books and replacing the covers with redesigned versions that don’t have J.K. Rowling’s name. Flom then resells the books for £140, according to Yahoo! News. In a TikTok from February 2022, Flom said, “My aim with this project is to engage critically and give an option to people who do still want to enjoy Harry Potter without supporting J.K. Rowling.”
A link to the version from this person, they look quite nice: https://laurflom.format.com/harry-potter-rebind
You mentioned legislation, I think that is an interesting point. If the books (and the HP universe in general) are so detrimental, shouldn’t they be condemned by countries court for xenophobia and transphobia? It seems strange to me that there are still 2 major amusement parks Harry Potter themed in the US, and a third one in London if you count the former shooting set, with thousands of visitors every year. That just seems so strange compared to the accusations the books face.
Isn’t arithmetic a class in Hogwarts and just a fancy word for maths (not a native speaker)? I think only Hermione takes it though and it’s only mentioned in the books.
arithmeticarithmancy
source :
Arithmancy | Harry Potter Wiki
https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Arithmancy
I’m just over here chuckling at your casual statement that Hagrid abducted Harry.
He broke down his door, mutilated his cousin, threatened his uncle, then lured Harry away with cake (which was eaten by said cousin).
Wizards don’t need math. They can just use magic like a calculator, but cooler.
I think you’re right. They probably don’t know math. I mean, what would they need it for? They probably don’t have to follow the laws of physics for the most part. If math is done it’s probably 100% recreational.
Around that age kids learn what negative numbers are. I feel like some of it might be important
According to the British government 5th grade math includes interpret negative numbers in context, count forwards and backwards with positive and negative whole numbers, including through 0.
They just cast calcularmis.
Something like increasing quantites for lake more potions .
Most of us only know 5th grade math
You don’t have to brag about it. Geez.
My wife, who is a big potter fan, told me they take traditional classes as well, but they are shown off screen as they aren’t interesting to the story.
Pretty sure they explicitly talk about those kind of classes in the books. They don’t have scenes in them, but I remember Ron and Harry complaining about arithmetic, or mathematics, or something like that.
Using OP logic, none of these kids ever go to the bathroom either.
They do in the Chamber of Secrets.
“Arithmancy” is what they call their math disciplines and it’s mentioned a fair bit in the books, though understandably never really shown in the movies.
