Maryland House Democrats introduced a controversial gun safety bill requiring gun owners to forfeit their ability to wear or carry without firearm liability insurance.
Introduced by Del. Terri Hill, D-Howard County, the legislation would prohibit the “wear or carry” of a gun anywhere in the state unless the individual has obtained a liability insurance policy of at least $300,000.
"A person may not wear or carry a firearm unless the person has obtained and it covered by liability insurance issued by an insurer authorized to do business in the State under the Insurance Article to cover claims for property damage, bodily injury, or death arising from an accident resulting from the person’s use or storage of a firearm or up to $300,000 for damages arising from the same incident, in addition to interest and costs,” the proposed Maryland legislation reads.
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And how many guns have you donated to the homeless? You’re absolutely fine with gun ownership having a cost, as long as you can afford it.
Things have a cost, there’s the materials, and unless you are a proponent of slave labor someone had to make the thing. This applies to literally everything. No shit “EvErYtHiNg IsN’t FrEe,” but everything can be donated if you so choose. The problem with donating guns to the homeless though is it’s technically illegal since you do not know if they can legally possess firearms, they may be a felon or “an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.” (ATF Form 4473 question 21f.) Or question 21g for that matter, “Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?” Or 21h “Have you ever been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions?” Or 21j “Have you ever been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, or are you or have you ever been a member of the military and been convicted of a crime that included, as an element, the use of force against a person as identified in the instructions?”
So what is your tantrum about? The things have a cost that is now higher.
I genuinely can’t figure out what you were expecting with that argument. Do you think guns are sold for the cost of materials and labor?
Tantrum? Lmao cute.
Yes, and higher cost = harder for poors.
This isn’t rocket surgery my dude. Keep pretending you’re an idiot idgaf, you know and I know you know.
You made it clear “the poors” were nothing but a prop when you rushed to justify a for-profit firearms industry.
Lmao you expect things to be handed out for free, then start to donating or advocate for firearms to be provided to all by the government. However evidentially you expect an industry to continue on it’s own without the money with which to sustain itself and grow, well wish in one hand and shit in the other see which fills up first.
You champion that government rifle providing program and I’ll be your first backer, but “things cost money” isn’t the gotcha you think it is.
What, do you think I’m rich? I’m poor as fuck, I had to save up to buy a gun, like most Americans I live paycheck to paycheck, adding ~$50 a month for some horse shit is definitely more of a problem financially than saving $20 a paycheck for a year on top of the monthly ~$50 I’d be required and you can stop pretending that isn’t the case anytime, I live it, you can’t fool me.
When they say “our democracy is at stake,” they don’t mean all Americans. They mean them and their friends’.
Idk I need to get insurance for my car because it might hurt someone. I think this makes sense and is a good step. You have a right to own guns but no one said it would be cheap.
If you are poor buying a gun should not be your priority anyways. why do poor people need guns? It’s not like they are going out hunting for their food still.
It’s obvious you’ve never lived in the hood lol. Poor income areas usually have the highest crime and often little to no police presence.
I’ve lived in the hood. BRANDISHING which is what this law for, would have you shot dead. Get the fuck outta here.
Does it say I need insurance to own a shotgun, that is kept in my home? Because thats what I’d be using if I lived in the hood and felt afraid in my home
Brandishing and carrying are not the same thing.
Open carrying in the hood is a great way to get shot. Being open about your weapons in the hood is a great way to get robbed.
Semantics.
If it came to you having to use your weapon in the first place, then you’re already dead. This bill is a good first step in curbing our rampant gun issues.
This law would also affect concealed carry no?
I never said anything about brandishing. I was responding to the above comment saying poor people don’t need to buy a gun.
No one needs a gun, but another barrier to entry is a plus in my book.
Lol reread the article, this is for carrying, brandishing is what is known as a “criminal offense” and is “not covered by such liability insurance.” You want “insurance” against your literal crimes get a lawyer on retainer, but I know you’re just conflating carrying concealed, laugably, or open, with brandishing, which by all definitions involved particularly the legal (i.e important) ones, they are not the same thing.
My comment was directed at the person claiming having a gun in the hood is a necessity and that this bill stops them from that.
I said brandishing because if you have a gun in the hood, whether or not its tucked in your shorts, holstered and concealed as is legal, or hanging from your balls out in the open, its a bad fucking idea.
My comment was directed at the person claiming having a gun in the hood is a necessity and that this bill stops them from that.
Right, but you were the only person in the entire thread to mention brandishing, the comment you replied to is in relation to carrying, open or concealed, as is the article, and the law itself that we’re discussing, keep up buddy. Also:
I’ve lived in the hood. BRANDISHING which is what this law for, would have you shot dead. Get the fuck outta here.
Your comment was directed at him, but about this law, which is what I’m correcting you on.
The hood being underpoliced and over-crimed necessitates the occasional defense of oneself, and the carrying required to do so. You can feel whatever way you want to about that, but sometimes it does have to happen, and does happen, regularly.
He definitely edited his comment though that is besides the point. I most certainly used the term brandishing to illicit this exact response, and I’d say its right. It does not matter whether or not its open carried, concealed, or brandished. Id wager you lots of money that “any time its necessitated to resort to gun violence in the hood” that the person (who “won”) eventually lived a short life.
Many people who conceal carry and actually train with their firearms can draw and fire in about 1.5 seconds. That is fast enough that you won’t be shot dead in a lot of situations.
Brandishing is dumb. If someone is going to draw their firearm, it should only ever be in a life or death situation, and they should be justified in using it immediately.
Open carry is also just a bad idea everywhere, not just the hood.
1.5 seconds or not, now everyone knows you own a gun. A gun will never improve a situation.
You are right that guns rarely improve a situation, but sometimes we have to deal with the fact that we live in a cruel world where a lot of people carry guns and are desperate enough to use them on people.
Personally, if I was being robbed and was conceal carrying, I would do everything I could to not escalate the situation. I would just slowly give them my stuff. But if I am trapped in a building with a mass shooter or something, I would rather try to defend my family and myself rather than just waiting to be executed.
I respect your viewpoint on it, though.
I don’t believe, and also hope for your own sake, that a situation never arises where you need one. You have every right to be able to do so. In fact, this bill only makes it so in the event something goes wrong; insurance has got you covered.
Idk I lived in Baltimore for a while. I definitely felt more safe when guns weren’t around
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If you are poor buying a gun should not be your priority anyways. why do poor people need guns? It’s not like they are going out hunting for their food still.
YEAH! Stupid fucking poors, if your neighborhood is so dangerous just get a better job and move to a gated community like the one RagingRobot here lives in! You’re too poor and stupid to handle protecting yourself anyway and since you’re so poor who cares if you die?
If guns make neighbourhoods safer, why isn’t America the safest country in the world by a huge margin?
Feel free to stay in the violence free paradise that you’ve found, but don’t tell anyone where this mythical utopia is or they’ll surely invade.
Don’t worry, it’s not a secret. It’s called “any other wealthy country with gun control (which is basically all of them)”.
Sure, it’s not exactly violence free but the chances of your child being mutilated beyond recognition by a former “responsible gun owner” are close to zero.
Even in the poorest communities, “gunshots or fireworks” just isn’t a thing. Even for the most despised minority groups, “this confrontation could escalate to murder before anyone could intervene” isn’t a thing.
It’s way better.
Oh word y’all don’t have stabbings or rapes or anything in any other country at all? News to me.
Sure, it’s not exactly violence free
Ah gotcha, that’s what I thought. Call me when it is.
That didn’t take much prodding did it? You’ve just let slip your contempt for a lower crime rate, fewer murders and no monthly extremist killing as many minorities or children as they can.
I guess all your talk about criminals, rape, self defense and protecting minorities was just bullshit rhetoric after all.
If there’s no gun sales in it, you openly don’t care.
Buying a gun only makes your neighborhood more dangerous
Great, so if someone tries to kill me I should just let them do it for a marginal “increase” in “neighborhood safety” (not my safety of course after I’m murdered.) That makes sense.
What shitty thing did you do to someone that you think they want to kill you?
What shitty thing did Emitt Till do that made people want to kill him? What shitty thing did Harvey Milk do to make people want to kill him? JFK? MLK?
What shitty thing did you do today? Victim blame.
JFK was surrounded by people with guns and it didn’t help him one bit though. I wasn’t blaming anyone.
I was questioning why you are so scared?
@RagingRobot @ArcaneSlime How?
Well it makes it much more likely that someone will be shot for one thing lol. The more guns in the neighborhood the more likely someone is getting shot or a child gets a hold of it by mistake. All kinds of stuff can happen and just introducing a gun to the situation statistically increases the chance someone gets hurt.
@RagingRobot i would prefer a working-class based self-armed force and I will be joining it for revolution. Giving up weapon only makes you unsafe.
Send us your address, all us lemmy users can chip in and and gift you a big big ass weapon for your 14th birthday next year
Only weak men need weapons.
@RagingRobot Then who is gonna protect you? Police?
Protect me from who? I have never been in a situation where I need to pull a gun on someone and I never will be. If someone wants to rob me they can I have insurance. They would really have no reason to want to kill me. I’m not anyone’s enemy.
What are you so scared of?
Nobody should be carrying as a routine.
Nobody should be carrying.
Guns are practical tools in rural areas. In town though? Nah.
So long as there are actual Nazis around, there exists a strong argument for it.
Nazis that have all the guns they could ever want and routinely go on killing sprees with them.
So what exactly is the argument? That maybe one day, the gun laws that armed Nazis might disarm Nazis, even though they’he completely failed to for their last 5 years?
Stop falling for bullshit gun-lobby marketing.
Fine, you can choose to be utterly helpless when the nazis break down your door, and you will then go wherever they tell you. But at that point you can feel free to stop pretending you own the high road. And stop telling those of us who would fight back effectively that we have no such right.
The gun lobby absolutely does not market to people like me. Gun laws will never disarm nazis, only the minorites they wish to oppress.
Thanks for sharing your little hero fantasy with us but you and your guns have done absolutely fuck all to shield anyone from Nazis.
But at that point you can feel free to stop pretending you own the high road
Sounds like the day you’ve lost the high road, not me. You were going to shoot all the Nazis dead with your cool guns remember? Now they’re marching people off to camps.
It’s such a difficult line of bullshit to work with isn’t it? You need to proclaim the Nazis are coming, and that only guns can stop them, but they can’t stop you with their guns, that they purchased from the same store, under the same gun-lobby authored laws.
And stop telling those of us who would fight back effectively that we have no such right.
Oh you’re going to “fight back effectively” are you? So share with us all what your skills are. We don’t know for certain they include “able to safely possess a competently use a firearm” because they’re pro-gun community insist that shouldn’t be a requirement.
Tell us all about the soldier these dead kids have bought us. Do you have any skills besides “gun”? Any military training? Can you set up a secure communication network? Are you able to administer basic first aid? Can you fly a drone? Fuck, tell us what you weigh.
Convince us that the fattest, shittest, most entitled army the world has ever seen is going to keep us safe from the people they almost certainly voted for.
It’s so strange that you think armed leftists have anything in common with your fairly accurate image of right wing chuds.
It is not the job of armed leftists to shield you from nazis. That job is for you and your mighty pens. Great job on that, by the way.
None of us have ever claimed to be heroes who are gonna kill all the nazis with our big bad guns. Self defense is not an offensive act. There are no nazis currently breaking in my door to drag me away. Do you expect me to go out seeking murder? Hell no. Now is the time to dismantle their propaganda networks, prosecute their leaders, bankrupt those who fund them, raise the minimum wage, establish single payer healthcare, safeguard human rights, separate church and state, and once and for all make bigotry and hate speech utterly illegal. We had best get on that.
No armed leftist has ever advocated for untrained irresponsible gun ownership.
You talk as if you think I expect to survive a Nazi coup. That world is not worth living in. Such a battle may very well be hopeless, but if your politicians fail to prevent it, it must be fought. No, I have no unprovable claims of competency for you to ridicule. I have nothing to prove. I’m not a badass. I expect to ensure that I do not go where they tell me. Rather the opposite.
Despite being a socialist, I have never voted for anyone except Democrats since 2000. You’re welcome.
I see you still have offered no viable solutions. I hope your pen is sharp.
It’s so strange that you think armed leftists have anything in common with your fairly accurate image of right wing chuds
Sure they do – their opinions came out of the same sleazy boardrooms dedicated to maximising profits. They just replaced the conservative shit like “god” and “nuclear family” with “minorities” and you lapped it up just as eagerly.
It is not the job of armed leftists to shield you from nazis. That job is for you and your mighty pens. Great job on that, by the way.
Good to hear you admitting you’re going to do fuck all except push hollow rhetoric.
But hey if you want me and my pen to stop the Nazis firing semi-automatic rifles into crowds of innocent people, we’re happy to write up the new gun laws to prevent it.
At the very least, you could stop bankrolling the pro-gun lobby and their army of lawyers. Maybe you could skip the middleman and just donate $16 million a year directly to Republicans?
None of us have ever claimed to be heroes who are gonna kill all the Nazis with our big bad guns. Self defense is not an offensive act.
A comment that doesn’t even hold true in this single comment section, let alone the rolling plains of AstroTurf that “leftist gun owners” call home.
No armed leftist has ever advocated for untrained irresponsible gun ownership.
I started to reply to this but then I realized just how fucking slimey it is. You’ve carefully positioned yourself to claim “even though we demand that training and responsibility remain entirely optional, a true leftist advocates gun safety”.
Presumably by tutting at people on the internet.
This law isn’t about having guns in your house. It’s about having guns at the movie theater.
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If they see you with a firearm, it will be all these excuse they need.
Don’t fall for the pro-gun bullshit. Equal access to firearms means nothing because violence always favors the biggest asshole.
Don’t tell transwomen how to live their lives. Whatever you are, you do not live up to your username.
Whiteknighting without adding anything? Should transwomen be allowed to say anything, and no one can disagree?
Spare me the feigned alliance. You’re rushing to defend the gun lobby, not the trans community.
LoL, is that all you’ve got left? You think conservatives ever encourage armed transpersons? After all I said to you, the courtesy I extended, you think it was all just bad faith? I wasn’t even rude. You’re as dense as any conservative. Read my history.
What do you think John Brown would say to you? He was an agitator.
Why would they care? They’re making millions of dollars off “armed leftists” who aren’t the slightest threat to them.
They put $16 million of those profits each year into the pockets of the most far-right Republicans running.
The far-right shitheads you’re enabling go on monthly killing sprees targeting minorities. Meanwhile, whats your Nazi body count? Zero?
Do you need some names and addresses? I can hook you up. I’m talking swastika tattoo, mask off, proud boys.
Face it, everything you’re doing is working out great for fascists. You couldn’t have been more help if you joined them.
But it’s all worth it right, because now the trans community is… oh, much less safe and accepted than they would be in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the UK and most of Europe.
Is your gun keeping a third of your country at bay?
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Ah yes. America. The only country in the world where it’s expected that everyone has a gun and can carry it every where they go.
Not the only one, somalia too.
And instead of complaining for the lack of healthcare, they cry because they are going to tax your Colt and you are not allowed to take it to the supermarket anymore.
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I’m not very opinionated on guns tbh, but I do think this only makes it more difficult for poor people. I’m not sure I agree with that.
Seems fair. If the risk is low, cost will be low. Let the free market decide, right?
Pay to carry seems pretty not ok to me.
But it’s pay to drive, right? I suppose driving isn’t mentioned in the bill of rights, but I’d argue neither is the individual right to wield a firearm.
Yeah but if we can’t drive around shooting our guns as a protected freedom of expression, are we really free?
You pay for car accidents and they don’t pay out for intentional stuff. You don’t really hear much about accidental shootings from people while they’re out carrying. The act of carrying isn’t dangerous.
The act of carrying is inherently more dangerous than not. That is an indisputable fact that you don’t even need statistics to know. I am infinitely more likely to die by a firearm if it exists in the first place rather than not.
People living with handgun owners died by homicide at twice the rate of their neighbors in gun-free homes. That difference was driven largely by homicides at home, which were three times more common among people living with handgun owners.
I claim you’re ignorant and your link is not anything to do with being out conceal carrying. Your argument also is of “guns not existing” rather than one of “people wanting to legally carry needing to pay.”
They are not the same thing.
I provided a link to evidence illustrating my point that the presence of a gun presents a greater risk of dying to a firearm. The study is about a different situation, but both deal with the presence of firearms. I would welcome evidence to the contrary rather than insults because I am engaging you here in good faith.
I say adding a gun to any situation increases the chances of a gun being used simply because it is present. More guns in more places = more opportunities for them to be used. I think that is simple logic, and again I welcome you to refute it.
This is something that requires people who carry weapons in public to be capable of providing restitution to anyone harmed by their actions. I can’t see a massive harm in it other than disproportionately affecting the poor.
Obviously, if no guns exist, no guns can be used. That isn’t even worth you bringing up. But since they do exist and are present, this is just a silly money grab and/or a way to restrict and even further incarcerate the poor half of the country. Making someone pay money to be allowed to carry around anything is just asinine. What next? Shall we charge you a fee for your propane bottle because you can make it explode? Your pencil because you can stab someone with it? Charge extra if you live above the 2nd story because you could push someone to their death?
There are literally millions of people who conceal carry every day. The ones who would pay insurance or simply stop carrying aren’t the ones hurting people. The “insurance” would just be for them. It wouldn’t be for the people you want to worry about.
There is a definable risk to life and property associated with carrying. And the cost of that risk should be born by those perpetuating it. I hear carrying supposedly makes things safer, so presuming the actuarial tables agree that cost should be totally nominal in which case why not?
Well then everyone who doesn’t carry should be paying the insurance by your logic.
You are walking around with a deadly weapon. We test, register, and insure people who drive around with a deadly weapon.
Nothing about the 2A says you do not assume liability for exercising your right. ain fact, all of US case on this would say the opposite. You absolutely assume liability for both what you do with your weapons, and what you fail to do with your weapons.
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Free market pricing. Requiring someone to be indemnified when they are taking on risk greater than they could ever hope to repay if something goes wrong seems perfectly reasonable to me.
It will be low. Super low. $300k is pocket change when the incidence for gun carriers to use them is extremely low. It’s why we can constantly mock the tacti-cool warriors for thinking they need a gun on them at all times. Plus, the insurance company has way more flexibility in proving their client was not at fault in the incident compared to the shenanigans they have to pull now for car wrecks.
It’s hard to imagine a reasonable objection, then. I don’t trust insurance companies very much, but if there’s one thing they do well, it’s associating risk with cost.
It’s why we can constantly mock the tacti-cool warriors for thinking they need a gun on them at all times.
That’s doesn’t make sense. We mock them for thinking they’re in danger without a gun. Insurance is for the danger they create by carrying a gun.
thinking they need a gun on them at all times
thinking they’re in danger without a gun
Yes, that’s what was said
Its cheap because theres almost no risk. Tiger attack insurance is very cheap in the US too.
So whats the point? Insurance cant possibly solve any actual problems associated with gun violence.
I would bet that tiger attack insurance for someone who brings a tiger with then in public would be astronomical.
The point is to put the burden of cost where it actually belongs. Instead of society footing the bill, now gun owners will pay into an insurance system that will cover costs in the event of damage.
Ok, I’ll try a better analogy. Why not require fist-punching insurance for anyone who wants to take their hands out in public?
Personal liability insurance exists. It’s often included in home or renter’s insurance. If someone knows they’re likely to end up in a lawsuit because they love punching people, it would behoove them to get that.
But the damage that can be done by a pair of fists is often a low enough dollar number (and jail time) that it can reasonably be paid by the person owning them. A broken orbital socket is a hell of a lot cheaper than, say, three people’s lives. There’s also unlikely to be collateral damage with fists, since they can only travel so far. Most people can’t pay for the damages in a shooting event, and right now that cost is instead being covered by taxpayers.
Insurance isn’t for the small things, like a broken window or punching someone. It’s for very expensive, sometimes catastrophic damage.
Well, CCW insurance really only covers legal costs associated with CCW use. Unfortunately in some states, it’s entirely possible (and in some states likely!) that someone who uses their firearm in self defense can get charged with a crime or sued by their attackers, regardless of how justified their use of force was.
I’m aware of some policies that cover third party damages like hospital bills and property damage, but the victims in this case are never held liable anyway.
So am I missing something? Especially given that practically all gun violence and deaths come from suicide and organized crime, how does this bill help anyone? CCW holders are statistically much less likely to break laws than those who don’t have a license, these people really shouldn’t worry anyone. This reeks of political posturing to me.
Edit: Just read that the law requires bodily harm and property damage coverage, so nevermind. The only scenario where the CCW holder would be liable for those damages is if their use of force isn’t justified, so I’m still not sure how this helps anyone.
Now think about any of the school shootings and the amount of guns they used. Do you see a kid buying some guns AND having to have an insurance?
Well insurance companies might deny coverage for people with a documented past of mental illness or violent behavior, which is more due diligence than many states are apparently putting in.
I mean it’s fucked and the proper solution should of course be regulation and proper background checks should not be too much to expect, but if everything has to be a “free market” masquerade then that would still be better than nothing (though I agree not by very much).
That’s still not going to stop any crimes. They still have the right to buy it, if they can pass the background check. If they want to commit a crime with it, the fact that it’s illegal to do so without insurance means nothing and prevents nothing.
Yeah, that’s the typical “but murder is already illegal!” pro-gun argument. I don’t think insurance policies are a good solution, but if it at least prevents the “mostly law-abiding citizen with anger issues who will use a gun against someone if given an excuse, but is too much of a pussy to carry one around illegally” from getting a gun, then that’s better than nothing.
You still don’t seem to understand that this would not prevent anyone from getting a gun. It would not, read up on the details.
I can read. My point is that lots of people buy a gun specifically to carry it in public. If they know they are uninsurable and won’t be able to carry it without getting into legal trouble (assuming there is a dissuasive penalty for illegally carrying… which is doubtful), they might not get a gun.
Sure, you can make up a lot a scenarios where this law is completely ineffective but you also can’t pretend that it necessarily won’t have any effect.
That’s certainly what I’ve been told. The statistics look a little sketchy to me on that front, but I’m not a mathematician and insurance companies will surely do a better analysis than anyone on this thread.
The only sure thing is that insurance companies will try to make as much money off this as possible, especially if it becomes required by law to have.
Don’t some states have laws about profitability caps on insurance?
There were stories of some insurance companies refunding policy holders during COVID due to excess profits.
That’s where competition is important. Get a bunch of insurers in the market and the profits they leech will be minimal. But health insurance is a fucking debacle over profits, so I definitely hear your concern.
Ask Floridians looking for flood or even just normal home insurance how competition is working for them.
The problem there is insuring housing isn’t financially viable because climate change has made it too costly to mass-build houses as often as they are destroyed. That’s not really similar to the gun violence marketplace.
The idea her is if folks can persuade insurance companies that they are stable and responsible enough, insurance for them will be cheap. Meanwhile folks with domestic violence records or violent felonies would be priced out of having a gun or at least have the ability to bear the financial burden if something goes wrong. This is by no means a great solution, but 2A absolutists have the supreme court and the law is essentially that reasonable regulation isn’t possible.
Until that changes, I’ll accept a market solution.
Well the liability aspect does include some risk.
It also depends if it’s on the weapon or person.
Specifically if the gun insured is used in a crime or to cause see harm. It doesn’t have to be the most extreme scenario.
If it’s per gun, that could easily be hundreds or thousands per month per gun hoarder.
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It’s a good idea that has been discussed before, but is almost certainly unconstitutional. You can’t paywall constitutional rights.
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IIRC it has been previously ruled that the 2nd covers ammo as well as firearms.
If your state doesn’t have concealed or open carry laws, you can still ‘bear arms’ by having them at home and transporting them in proper cases, correct? So this isn’t paywalling the right to own guns, just the right to take them around with you like a murdery little comfort blanket.
So it’s like a less furry cat?
Bootlickers are out in force today, huh?
While we’re putting fundamental rights behind financial barriers, I want a poll tax on pro-lifers, anti-LGBTQ, followers of all religions, and everyone else that I don’t like. We can make it 50% of all yearly income from any source or 1% of total assets, whichever is higher.
Does that sound like a good idea?
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Believing in the right to arms is also relevant for leftists, especially if a civil war breaks out. During BLM protests there were also armed leftists in marches which appeared to temper police responses.
Personally speaking, I don’t want cops and rich people, aka rightwingers, to be the only ones who are able to and allowed to own firearms.
Well in revolutionary period, no one carried arms really. Unless you were mustering, carrying your rifle around was ridiculous. It was ~5’ long, required manual loading before firing, and you had to carry very volatile black powder to do so. So it wasn’t an issue then. And if you’re a Constitutional Literalist, the Founders wouldn’t have wanted people carrying firearms outside of mustering for drills or war.
One of the most interesting arguments I have heard differentiates between bearing arms and simply carrying arms. A soldier bears arms. Nobody would describe a hunter as bearing arms. A hunter simply carries them.
At the time of the writing of the Constitution there were an assortment of small single shot pistols meant to be kept in a coat pocket or tucked into a boot, so it isn’t exactly accurate to say the founders didn’t envision people carrying around guns. On the other hand they were short range, highly inaccurate, and unreliable. Totally incomparable to modern handguns.
Personally, I prefer to look at the 2nd more broadly as a right to self-defense and that things like a combat rifle are clearly offensive rather than defensive.
https://www.theactuarymagazine.org/firearm-risk/
The people who wrote this article are going to be happy with this.
Well, undoubtedly if it is like other types of insurance the insurance will exempt homicide and and suicide. It will probably only cover accidental discharge so it will not help with the two biggest problems.
Most insurance doesn’t cover an insured for deliberate acts by the insured. Off the top of my head the only caveat I can think of is in Japan where life insurance can still pay out in the event of suicide.
Life insurance in the US will also generally pay out in the case of suicide, as long as you wait at least one year after the purchase of a policy to kill yourself.
Huh, news to me. But it has been a decade plus since licensing when I went over life insurance so it’s entirely possible I forgot or policies changed since then. Thanks for letting me know.
The industry standard is two years. In Brazil, where I work in, is an obligation imposed by our regulator.
That makes sense, I guess. If there’s a homicide you’re probably already suing the perpetrator.
It makes sense, but it’s not going to address what are the biggest problems. He’ll if anything it might get worse as people will know insurance will cover their accidental discharges…
Hahahaha I hope this passes. No insurance company would write those policies.
You can insure anything for any reason basically, it’s just a matter of price.
But yeah, this would probably be ridiculously unaffordable for the average person.
They should, but not for the kinds of assholes who want to carry guns everywhere.
You don’t have to be an asshole to want to carry a gun around everywhere. When you’re surrounded by people who openly discuss murdering you for your political stance, or your personal identity, or how you were born, and those people are intent on carrying guns to “defend” against threats that do no exist, meanwhile feeding themselves a steady diet of hate and discontent mixed with conspiracy theories… carrying may be the only thing between you and a lynching.
In short: take those people’s guns and the rest of us can finally abandon these barbaric relics to the anals of history.
Do cops next!
As the bill is currently written, local and state law enforcement officers are not exempt from the insurance requirement.
I can’t wait to see said cops tie themselves into complicated knots trying to explain why they ought to get a free pass but somehow us regular plebians have it different.
Make sense. There’s more deaths by firearm than automobile in the US every year. It’s actually fairly close at around 40-50k yearly. Which is absolutely insane…
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm
All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 48,830
Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 45,404
Iirc gun statistics don’t differentiate between homicides and suicides and I believe suicides is about half of that statistic.
61%, according to actuaries. It’s the same reason that this law isn’t all that great in making insurance companies the new gatekeeper for ownership: permit holders are among the lowest risk for firearm incidents. People who have guns and who won’t be paying for this insurance are the real actuarial, financial risk. The suicidal and the homicidal will be nearly excluded from the policy risks because they won’t be buying the policy. The title saying “gun owners” is incorrect, because this only applies to people who “wear or carry.” Thus, the insurance cost will be low.
From driving_crooner’s link: https://www.theactuarymagazine.org/firearm-risk/
Nope, very wrong. Firearm related deaths are not even in the top 10 causes of death in the USA. Car accidents are far more common causes of death.
CDC disagrees.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm
All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 48,830
Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 45,404
I appreciate that they’re trying to do something here, but this doesn’t feel like it’s aimed at stopping actually dangerous people. This feels like it’s aimed at beating on people who were already willing to deal with Maryland’s already more-strict-than-usual gun laws.
But I guess we’ll see how this pans out in a few years.
I appreciate the concept, but is $300,000 enough to actually cover the cost of damages? Guns generally seem like the sort of thing where accidents either cause minimal or catastrophic damage with not much in between.
Don’t let perfect be the enemy of the good.
Once the law is on the books, it can be used.
Once there’s an underinsured tragedy, there will be sufficient will to amend the coverage minimum.
This will pretty much only affect the friends/family of politicians, as they are the only ones that can get a permit to legally carry in Maryland.
Marylander here - the fuck are you talking about
I left in 2014 when you had to beg for permission to even purchase a handgun. Have things become better? Since the politicians are still proposing things like this, I assume not.
“Beg for permission”
I know plenty of people in this state who’ve purchased handguns, and unless attending a safety course is a form of begging, you’re talking out of your ass.
When I went to purchase a handgun, I was told I would need the permission of the local sheriff, in addition to the safety course.
I’m not going to jump through hoops to exercise a right that protects me from the same people who are attempting to hold my rights hostage.
Also, how many of them can legally carry a gun in Maryland?
As far as I’m aware (and I’m in a super gun happy place), it’s nearly universal that the local law enforcement agency signs off on most things like this. The tax stamps for suppressors/machine guns/explosives and the carry permit all go to them. Whether your area is a ‘shall issue’ or a ‘may issue’ is where you have to dig to find out.
May issue has become unconstitutional I believe, bit the holdout states aren’t exactly fast on the shallow issue directive.
I understand that a sheriff signs off for a carry permit in most places
In Maryland, when I tried to purchase a handgun, you had to also have a permission slip from the local sheriff to purchase a handgun at all, even if it stayed locked in a safe in your home
Do you need to defend yourself from the local sheriff?!
Yes. The police are much more of a threat than any other group.
I see what they want to do: no sane insurance company will provide such contracts unless they either:
- make the customers pay exorbitant prices
- require background checks and do the control themselves
Any of those will of course disincentivize people from owning guns, which is a good thing, but it’s crazy that a state has to offload these controls to a private company because there is no political willingness to do it in the right way.
They are using the anti-abortion strategy of finding a fairly strong argument and trying to maximize the ability of blocking something based on it. This will likely also fail like most of those attempts did.
what is the right way? carrying was almost impossible in MD before the Supreme Court ruling.
This solves nothing, except for the rich getting the sole prerogative to guns.
It’s okay, Billy McFucksHisSister was kinda outgunned by “the gubmint’s” F-35s already I don’t think his walmart glock was anything the rich ever feared.
I’d to ask what should then we do in case of a dictatorship, for example? Just lay down and fear the F-35s?
Yes, even if everyone has a wallmat glock we’d outgunned by a mile by let’s say the military, but also you can’t just bomb and kill the shit out of your labor and infrastructure — I mean, you can, also you can bomb and kill enough to get them to submit, but that is just not something you can just keep doing indefinetly. It is also very hard to maintain a economy going with a big insurrection going and there is were guns bring a point, they give you at least a figthing chance, way better than nothing.
I’d also like to point out the ad hominem of calling the hypotetical gun owner a “McFucksHisSister” it brings nothing of value to the conversation.
I also do not belive carrying a gun around is something needed -by almost anyone- but ownership is important.
Also important to note is that the military is not some faceless automaton that does whatever they’re told. It’s very hard to justify killing the family and townspeople and neighbours of the people that you send to commit the killing. If we get to a state where it isn’t hard, we’re already lost as a people.
I’d like to agree with you, but given the experiences and horrors carried out by the military in my country (not the USA) I just can’t. I guess I agree with your last sentence, and I really hope you guys (whoever is reading) do better than us.
Don’t know about the US, but in most places the military wouldn’t send you tonserve or even less fight to, say, Shithole, Alabama if you are from there. Of course you wouldn’t shoot your uncle or brother. They figured this out centuries ago, before firearms.
Cope. Seethe.
No arguments: you cope.
Personal liability insurance typically costs around $8 to $10 a year for every $100,000 in coverage https://www.policygenius.com/homeowners-insurance/what-is-personal-liability-insurance
Even if this source is off by a factor of 10, what person can purchase a $400+ firearm but can’t afford the same in yearly insurance?
Is that a fixed range, or will the cost just go up for the folk that some corporation thinks shouldn’t carry a gun?
The government should just do it’s fucking job and provide the insurance and background check. Its a bad move to relegate this to private parties. Atleast with the government the people can vote who is in power.
So you guys don’t have universal healthcare but it makes sense for the taxpayers to subsidise insurance and background checks so everyone can carry a gun and be happy, and sobthe the poor are not left out from this inalienable right that is carrying a gun in public like in the western movies?
Awesome. We’re going to apply it to cops too, right?
Right?
deleted by creator
Some states require nurses to buy their own personal liability insurance, but cops get a pass. Does that seem right?
In a lot of states you need to get a license to be a hairdresser but not to be a cop.
deleted by creator
They already have insurance: you as the taxpayer.
deleted by creator
You clearly said cops having liability insurance doesn’t make any sense and then doubled down by arguing that it’s because they have us the taxpayers instead.
If cops needed to get individual insurance and the ones that were reckless had to pay more or maybe even stop being cops because they can’t be insured, it would probably help.
Regardless, it comes off as if you are against it on top of belittling the above poster.
Are you being deliberately difficult?
You think you’re making a clear point, but you aren’t.
deleted by creator
What I’m saying makes perfect sense.
Police misconduct is so rampant specifically because the taxpayer picks up the tab. Cops themselves can weasel out of being responsible for just about anything because they’re shielded by their department, or city, or state, or whatever. But if we held them personally accountable – financially, in this case – that’d stop that bullshit quick smart and in a hurry. Doctors have to carry insurance personally. So do truck drivers. You want to know why? Because those jobs hold the potential for catastrophically fucking up, with consequences very likely to affect other people. Why should cops be any different?
At the very least this should apply to all police who are not currently clocked in, in uniform, and on duty. Out here in the real world they have to play by the same rules as the rest of us.
Ha. Actually, from TFA:
As the bill is currently written, local and state law enforcement officers are not exempt from the insurance requirement.
So guess who else agrees with me.
I agree with you overall, but I expect taxes will just go up by however much is required to cover the insurance for the officers, so we will continue to pay for their malfeasance.
deleted by creator
What they’re saying does make sense, it would just have to come with a few additional changes. Like making law enforcement officers easier to sue directly. Colorado has already revoked qualified immunity. It seems like you are being overly pedantic. No single step will fix the problem but the comment you are replying to is a step in a direction to address the issue
Did you read the article? Yes, it applies to police.
Yes, I quoted it in one of my other comments.
The law is not final yet, though. I’m sure there will be a wall of whine coming from the cops about how they’re so special and should be exempted. The real test will be if the legistlature capitulates or leaves them in there.
Fuck reading
LOLLLLLLL if you think it’ll make it to a final vote without a law enforcement exemption being added.
Here’s the problem…
We can require automobile insurance because driving a car isn’t a right.
Now, owning a gun is a right, and you could argue that wearing or carrying the gun is not, but then you have to go back to New York vs Bruen:
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/597/20-843/
New York used to require special permission to wear or carry a gun. You had to provide special justification for your need to carry and “because I don’t feel safe” or “I want to defend myself” wasn’t good enough.
Supreme Court ruled:
“We know of no other constitutional right that an individual may exercise only after demonstrating to government officers some special need. That is not how the First Amendment works when it comes to unpopular speech or the free exercise of religion. It is not how the Sixth Amendment works when it comes to a defendant’s right to confront the witnesses against him. And it is not how the Second Amendment works when it comes to public carry for self-defense.”
Given that, I can’t imagine they would hold an insurance requirement to be constitutional.
Should Alex Jones be forced to have liability insurance before spouting off conspiracy theories on InfoWars? Yeah, probably. But that’s not the way the first amendment works either.
