Unfortunately, I drive a ghetto minivan which causes the police to profile me and has caused people in small towns to call the police on me if I am in a public park or in their neighborhood. I even had someone call the police on me at campground that I had pre-paid for and the police were not sympathetic at all to my right to just exist.
I am aware of stop and identify laws and know that a cop needs reasonable suspicion to demand to see your ID. However, can’t the cop just make up some lies about reasonable suspicion?
If a cop approaches me can I immediately start with: “Officer, do you have reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred, is in the process of occurring, or is about to occur?” It seems like that will immediately escalate things even if technically the law is on my side.
I just want a damn right to exist law and to not be a target for an overactive imagination by the police which treats me like a criminal until they can check me for warrants.
Honestly, I want to tell them to fuck off right away but I also don’t have money for a lawyer.
Are you living out of said van? That complicates things quite a bit. If you really are just chillin’ just show them your ID and get on with it. None of these dudes are trained and are already aggressive towards you.
Are you living out of said van?
Yes, I am.
Don’t show them your ID then. If I were you I wouldn’t chill anywhere longer than thirty minutes during the day. Misery loves company so that shit is illegal in a lot of places. I dont know of any of them but I vaguely remember forums about surviving like this on reddit.
Yep, I agree with you. I do move around a lot. But I also paid for a spot at a campground where you’re supposed to be able to just chill and I still got harassed.
Check the rules for the campground next time you pay for a spot. Sometimes they sneak shit in there where you actually can’t be camping out of your car. I haven’t seen that where I live in the southwest. But I have seen people post about it in northern states.
Yeah, you’re right about that. I have seen those rules about car camping. Not sure what they were at the campground I was at but I got there around 1:30PM and was only there an hour before the deputy sheriff showed up. Even if that campground had a rule like that it was only 2:30 in the afternoon and surely there wouldn’t have been a “you must set up your tent within x minutes of arriving” rule. Cops suck! And the people who call cops because their overactive imagination gets the best of them suck too!
get a decoy tent. /s
maybe cleaning it will help. the difference between someone’s “i’m gonna haul shit” van and a drug dealer’s van is often just the amount of dirt and the straightness of the panels.
Not sure if it’d help, but you could stick a buuunch of camping, hiking, outdoors, etc. stickers on your van. Try to turn its image from a “ghetto” van to a “hippy / outdoor enthusiast” van. I imagine you can order large sticker packs online for very cheap.
This is an awesome idea. Here are a couple (here’s one, here’s another, and for kicks and giggles a third).
Yeah, that is a good idea. It would probably work best on a VW van like the kind surfers use. I suppose with enough stickers strategically placed it could look like you were into rock climbing, or surfing, or something involving the outdoors.
However, you don’t want to live in a VW surfer van. They’re cold as hell at night, zero insulation. Also they’re decades behind safety standards, in a collision with anything, they crumple like a soda can.
They look iconic, but I don’t recommend it in practice.
Yeah, rock climbing sounds even better than hippies for this purpose.
I just had a mental image of some overweight dude with tons of rock climbing stickers on their van. (Not implying anything OP, but just a funny picture I imagined)
After seeing the article about the 300lb pentathlete (who, yes, has to deal with social pressures due to his unusual build) I wouldn’t even blink.
But law enforcement in the US are eager to invoke stereotypes if it will get them closer to securing an arrest / conviction.
Ideally, you do what helps become invisible to police officers.
Guess you have to look the part to sell this one properly
Just a heads-up, vans with climbing stickers can attract break-ins because they tell people “there’s a bunch of expensive gear in here that would be easy to fence”. Happens all the time in vegas. Hope you stay safe out there!
Maybe a bunch of penguin stickers and one that says, “Ask me about Linux!”
Might hurt on date night, though.
“There’s a bunch of computers in there! But we don’t know how to use them.”
Best idea in the thread. You see old subies covered in REI and mountain climbing and hiking and backpacking stickers everywhere
Pigs is pigs, buddy.
You gotta play along unless you wanna start shit. And pigs being pigs means you can’t really start telling them what they’re doing is inappropriate or unnecessary, that puts em in fight or flight mode and pigs don’t fly.
I’d guess your best bet would be that they get used to you and become nonchalant with their check-ins. Just be stupid friendly about the whole thing and maybe try to remember a few of their names. If it’s a small town, can’t be too many of em. Eventually maybe you can shift it from “Good afternoon, Officer, what seems to be the problem?” to “Ah hey Steve, Mrs. Granger worried about me again? Aint that sweet, how’s the kids?”
Edit: I see elsewhere in the thread you mentioned you’re living in the van. That makes things harder. Even if you’re complying with the law, pigs hate that shit. When I was living in a car, I had a sob story ready for any cop that interrogated me and if I got caught and had to use it, I wasn’t sleeping in that county again for another month. The campground bit is especially fucking frustrating, you PAID to be there, that’s all on the up and up. They’re monsters, buddy, not sure how to help, but I find being some caricature outta some 50’s PSA film to em pads their egos and smooths interactions in general. Tho the shoddy van won’t help.
that puts em in fight or flight mode and pigs don’t fly.
😂 Love that line!
Keep Pokemon Go on your phone, when they approach, open the app and then nerd the fuck out on them about whatever Pokemon are nearby and try to recruit them, they’ll leave you alone real quick.
“Sir, do i detect an herb smell?”
“Yeah I think there’s an oddish around here somewhere. Want to help me look?”
That must be the incense I used to attract more Pokemon!
It’s attracting me, am I Pokémon
Let’s find out!
[Yeets a PokeBall at the cop]
All right! You caught a Highmon
‘That’s not exactly how the Founders framed the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, but it is what Craig and Marc Wasserman want you to do.’
"Why did you pull me over? I’m not discussing my day. Am I being detained or am I free to go? If detained, you say, “I invoke the Fifth [Amendment],’ and then you shut the fuck up.”
Thanks for that article. I do agree with it. But this might be similar to “there’s plenty of dead pedestrians who thought they had the right of way”. I already know that technically I can refuse to show my ID without reasonable suspicion but if the cop arrests me illegally I still have to go to court to assert my legal rights and I can’t afford the money or the time.
Dead right.
There isn’t any kind of script that I know of that actually prevents cops from being cops, sometimes this helps.
I used to hop freight trains, often with at least tacit permission from the crews ( I’ve driven locos before). Cops are a different beast as you know. It’s taking each one individually, but still you are going to get screwed sometimes.
I’ve been banged up for ‘attitude’ and let off when one of the guys I was with had pron the cop liked.
I have no specific advice but check out the book “Talking to strangers” by Malcolm Gladwel, it might be insightful.
I have heard of that book. I’ll check it out. Thanks!
Youre welcome bud.
I have lived in my van for a few periods too, on and off up to a year at a stretch. It can be really mentally draining. I hope you find some respite and peace & quiet soon.
During the pan, I ran out of stuff to watch. I ended up watching police-cams and dash-cams of car chases. Ironic, given that I loathe the police. But it’s way better than fake reality TV cause it’s authentic.
I believe in our rights not to be abused by police. I believe even more that asserting our rights can make us a target for bullies. I’d say clam up and offer nothing beyond an ID. Tell them you don’t want to speak without representation. You may have to invoke your right to stand mute for it to be relevant in court (if it comes to that) to argue that that was your intent. I think that’s the best way to say nothing without appearing to challenge their power.
I am not an expert or lawyer or anything. I just know that I’ve seen a LOT of videos of cops getting belligerent when they feel challenged and they are fucking violent. There may be some who aren’t, but I wouldn’t gamble on it at all. My plan, if confronted, is to obey every physical order and never to argue.
I don’t have reason to think I’ll ever have a confrontation with a cop (I’m not a “kid” anymore) beyond maybe a speeding ticket, but if it happened, I’d be super compliant and assert my rights after the fact.
If you’re in a vehicle, they do have the right to check if you’re the registered owner, are licensed and insured, tags up to date, etc.
Best advice:
Longer, but the most important 45 minutes you can spend today:
tl;dw - The Miranda warning tells you everything you need to know: “Anything you say can and will be used AGAINST YOU.” Not for you, AGAINST YOU.
Nothing you say to the cops will be used to help you, so do not talk to them.
If I see them approaching from far away and hop out of the vehicle am I then a pedestrian and no longer count as being in my vehicle?
Unless they see you exiting the vehicle.
The only thing that really matters is if you are driving or not. So if the vehicle is turned off and the keys are out of the ignition, you are not a driver. Therefore they cannot issue any moving violations or any similar driving related citations. Unless you are illegally parked, that’s another issue.
If they are already approaching you, and you jump out of the car, that would look automatically suspicious to the suspicion-filled pig brain. So if you want to get out just do that before they approach.
Correct. This is no different than if my friend gives me a ride and runs into a store to buy something while I stay in the car. It’s not a traffic stop so police can’t just demand that I give them papers and prove the car is legally allowed to be on the road because we’re not on the road.
Nah, if you are in control of the vehicle. Meaning if you have the keys and the ability to turn it on and drive. Sleeping drunk in a vehicle can get you a DUI even if the car is off and you’re parked.
Seems to me you can be charged with DUI if you’re drunk and in a car regardless of whether the keys are in it or not?
I don’t think so
It depends on the location and local laws, but even then cops can charge you with whatever they want. Whether those charges hold up in court is another story.
What color are you? Pigs basically use
as training material, so the darker shade you are the more careful you gotta be with slow hand movements and clear communication.The answer is “am I being detained or am I free to go?” The answer to every question after is “lawyer” or shut the fuck up. Every day is Shut The Fuck Up Friday.
STFU Friday is gospel. Especially the one with Michael Rappaport.
The cop mentality is all about feeling superior, so the last thing you want is to challenge him. Probably gets angry real quick and maybe even violent.
You have to treat them as if they are criminals. Don’t upset them, stay quiet, try to act submissive.
How you want the world to treat you or the car only exists in your head. In reality, people gets treated after how they are perceived by others.
Wow, “treat cops as if they are criminals”
That’s a piece of advice I’ll share around
Best bet? Get some local PD/Sherrif or PBA (or equivalent) stickers and place near the rear license plate and on the glass by the driver side A pillar.
This is a phenomenal tip, they love seeing those lil stickers or badges. Changes the tone of the conversation from the get go.
Lol, no it doesn’t and no don’t do this. Especially don’t do it on a “ghetto” looking van. This will make you even more of a target.
This moron has a PD sticker thinking we’ll leave him alone. Obviously he’s up to something.
You might be right there. The beat up van might be coloring the interactions too much for the protection money sticker to work.
The only time that might work is if it’s a nice expensive and well kept car. But then with that I doubt you’re too worried about being harassed in the first place.
like it’s a fucking goop frequency sticker keeping headaches away, lol.
Watching it now, thanks! It sucks that you have to study the law for rights you already have but “it is what it is”.
The US has a long history of carving out segments of civil rights, especially from poor and marginalized groups. It is dangerous to depend on the rights allegedly afforded by the Constitution of the United States, especially with a SCOTUS eager to nullify the bill of rights.
To the guy downvoting every time I comment - do you feel powerful doing that? I even got a downvote for simply stating the country I live in. Dude, I live in a van and I get harassed by cops. I’m just trying to get some advice from people (like that Youtube link @David_Eight just posted) Keep downvoting, you’re not going to make my life any worse.
@David_Eight
Thanks for that video. I want to be like that kid. He wasn’t always the most elegant with his words but he was right the entire time. That’s what I would like to do when the cops show up. I’d just like to state my rights, ask am I free to go, and then have them go away.
You can fall down a rabbit hole on YouTube of similar videos. Rarely do the cops just respect the law and back down. For many of them it’s about ego and power and they seem to believe whatever information they receive first, as in a caller said you were suspicious so they’re going to treat you like a criminal regardless of the facts or what you tell them.
I didn’t read the whole thread before linking that video, so a few things to consider.
- There is no federal law stating that sleeping in your is illegal but, some states and or cities do. So if you’re in a state or city where it IS ILLEGAL, definitely don’t do this lol. They’ll just arrest you.
- If it IS LEGAL where you are, theoretically you don’t have to move and can stay as long as you want. But, the cops will escalate things and start looking for other reasons to arrest our fuckery you.
- Have you considered going to a 24hr gym or something similar? So if anyone hassles you, you’re just going to the gym. Just an idea.
- If your renting a camp site you do have “Campers Rights” and can tell the cops to fuck off. I remember watching a similar video to the one I linked about that specifically. I’ll add it later if I can find it. Best of luck though 🖖
It’s really helpful to say what country you are in.
U.S.A.
if someone doesn’t tell you what country they’re in, it’s the U.S.
and maybe germany, made that mistake too many times.
I know, but I was trying to do it the nice way.
Lol was it not immediately obvious with this description of police? The us has the worst police issue like ever. Cops in other corrupt authoritarian countries at least don’t pretend they aren’t corrupt and authoritarian
It’s actually obvious as soon as a person doesn’t say where they are from, because there’s typically only one nationality that assumes you know where they are from.
Couldn’t agree more lol. It’s like that meme from an anime where a very American looking dude is like the whole world belongs to America !
“What seems to be the problem officer?” Is how you should start every conversation with the police. Be polite, respectful, and firm in your rights. And most importantly don’t say more than the answer to legal questions.
To me that sounds like it’s opening the door by assuming there’s a problem. I think I’d lead with “good morning sir” and let them start talking.
I disagree solely because you want to be the one asking why the cop is there and the cop is going to try to beat you to that punch. If they ask why you think there’s a problem “a police officer is getting my attention” is a valid response.
Anyway if anyone wonders why cops are hated, it’s the fact that ordinary law abiding citizens need to learn the special language that makes cops not get aggressive and accuse you of crimes.
until you feel like they are trying to lead you into giving them reasonable suspicion, at which point you begin the “am i free to go?” routine.
If you’re not doing anything illegal then I highly recommend keeping your hands out in the open where they can see both of them, and politely answering their questions.
They have a gun, so its not about right/wrong, it’s about your own safety. You don’t know if that’s a decent one or a shitty one.
Yeah, you are right. Once I opened the door when I got pulled over by Border Patrol. I opened it because my power window was broken. They did not like me opening the door.
having a van that works properly would probably help your credibility, yes.
/lh
Many police departments in the US are explicitly trained to treat encounters with people as potential combat situations. They get taught lessons like “Your first job is to go home alive.” It’s continually drilled into them how dangerous their job is, even though that’s not statistically true. This obligates you to treat an encounter with an officer as a potentially life threatening situation.
If your window isn’t working, do not open your door. Police regularly approach a traffic stop prepared for a violent confrontation, sometimes going so far as resting their hand on their firearm.
I worked on a military base for a while, where each vehicle was stopped to show ID badges. The right approach is to say (and mime - eg point at the window, point down, and shake your head “no”) that your window isn’t working. They’ll probably take a step back and tell you to open the door.
It’s wrong, it needs to change, but until it does we need to adapt our behaviors to fit the situations we are put into.
Solid post. These guys get “warrior” training. Like they are embedded with the enemy. When you set the general tone like that, common folk are at a disadvantage right out of the gate.
Be respectful and polite and try to escape the situation with as little impact as possible.
Lt. Colonel David Grossman is not the worst thing to happen to american policing but he’s sure not helping anything.
oh that’s the dickhead with the silly killing mentality right?
