People who make these arguments are the same people who argue 3rd party voting is impossible and infeasible and get mad when I criticize senile Biden, even after voting for senile Biden.
These threads always end up achieving the opposite of their intended purpose.
I’m not American, so I don’t have much skin in the game.
Instead of complaining about something you can’t control, perhaps you should look forward to the next four years and think about what kind of candidate you want to run, how viable a candidate they’ll be, and how to best promote them for a presidential campaign.
Ultimately, you always get the politicians you deserve. If your choice is always a bit shit, perhaps you need to look at yourselves instead of complaining about who is assumed to be the best choice.
ITT: the same right wing trolls pretending to be leftists. Don’t even bother.
That, or genuine leftist which are essentially the same thing
Found one
… said the right wing troll.
…screamed the stableboy.
It’s always nice when you kids stand up to be blocked. Makes it easier to filter my feed
…screamed the stable boy.
Not necessarily. There’s also the accelerationists that want to burn the whole thing down and believe that they’ll be around to rebuild their utopia in the ashes, without any regard for those who suffer and are murdered to try to achieve their selfish vision of society. All while ignoring the facts that accelerationism has never been demonstrated to actually work and that there’s a pretty decent chance that they would be targeted for murder if an authoritarian government took over, prior to societal collapse.
Yep. This is what happens when you make terminator movies: Everyone thinks they’re gonna be a hero freedom fighter against the cold, faceless oppressors.
Nobody ever considers the most likely scenario: you’re probably one of the skulls that the robot steps on as the camera pans up.
Jokes on you, I’m into that shit
accelerationists that want to burn the whole thing down and believe that they’ll be around to rebuild their utopia in the ashes
More that the system needs to be burned down because it is actively harming people. Whether Trump or Biden is in office, the DHS is responsible for the wrongful arrest and imprisonment of tens of thousands of people. The Pentagon and its affiliates are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands more. Our Treasury and Energy Departments continue to subsidize historic levels of pollution which cannibalize vast swaths of arable land for fictitious profits.
Burning the political system that’s destroying your country isn’t about utopian idealism any more than sabotaging the bulldozer headed towards your house is about building your dream home.
accelerationism has never been demonstrated to actually work
I’d point you to the US Civil War as a very classic historical counterpoint. The country had to pass through four years of hell and quite literally immolate a large portion of its interior in order to purge the accumulated sins of a century of chattel slavery.
This isn’t something anyone wants to live through, but we’re far better as a country for going through it than subjecting another century’s worth of Americans to the inhuman conditions of plantation bondage.
I’d point you to the US Civil War as a very classic historical counterpoint. The country had to pass through four years of hell and quite literally immolate a large portion of its interior in order to purge the accumulated sins of a century of chattel slavery.
I’ll start by saying that Sherman stopped too soon. But, I am curious as to how that provides evidence for accelerationism. The US Civil War was started by slavers that were mad about not being allowed to expand chattle slavery into new territories. Lincoln and the others still allowed allied slave states to exist and tried to prevent it by offering compromises.
This isn’t something anyone wants to live through, but we’re far better as a country for going through it than subjecting another century’s worth of Americans to the inhuman conditions of plantation bondage.
Agreed. Though the result was a significant improvement, though Jackson reversed too much.
I’ll start by saying that Sherman stopped too soon.
Based.
But, I am curious as to how that provides evidence for accelerationism. The US Civil War was started by slavers that were mad about not being allowed to expand chattle slavery into new territories
It started much earlier than that. John Brown and the abolitionist insurrection in Kansas and then Harper’s Ferry West Virginia gave secessionists urgency in a way that prior activists had not. The Underground Railroad was seen as a tool of northern politicians to steal southern slaves. Lincoln’s nomination to the Republican ticket was received as a plan by the majority party to curb slavery’s expansion which - at the moment when they were racing for new territory to expand into - would have crippled their already underdeveloped economy even further.
Fort Sumter was where the war began, but this was a country that had staring into the abyss of civil strife for the last decade.
Lincoln and the others still allowed allied slave states to exist and tried to prevent it by offering compromises.
Lincoln needed to keep the border states around the capital loyal, so he deferred emancipation until after Gettysburg by which time the southern military had lost its steam. But he was right in line with Thaddeus Stevens in ideology, even if he was more strategic in his governance.
Though the result was a significant improvement, though Jackson reversed too much.
I assume you mean… Andrew Johnson?
Yeah. One of the big what-ifs of the period is a President Benjamin Butler.
Thanks for the well thought out response.
Fort Sumter was where the war began, but this was a country that had staring into the abyss of civil strife for the last decade.
Absolutely. There were abolitionists at the signing of the US Constitution even.
I assume you mean… Andrew Johnson?
You are correct. I mix the two names up.
While I agree with everything and see it’s factuality, I still have some trouble connecting it to accelerationism. From my perspective it seems rather more in line with reform. Wouldn’t accelerationism in that scenario have been more along the lines of Lincoln pushing for more slavery to try to trigger a slave revolt?
I still have some trouble connecting it to accelerationism
The straightest line I can draw is to simply point at the passage of the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments. This would have simply not been possible had the southern states not rebelled and - as a consequence - temporarily lost their statehood and representation. Without the Civil War you simply could not have had the majorities necessary nor the moral imperative of 600k dead Americans, to legally exorcise the ghost of slavery from the soul of the nation.
Absent things getting significantly worse, they could not have so rapidly improved.
Wouldn’t accelerationism in that scenario have been more along the lines of Lincoln pushing for more slavery to try to trigger a slave revolt?
Not Lincoln, but Polk and Tyler and Pierce and Buchanan (with Filmore being a Biden-esque dude who failed to stop the train from careening off the tracks). Lincoln was the consequence of half a dozen new slave states rapidly joining the union and spreading the curse of slavery like wildfire. The huge expansion in arable land available to slavers combined with a steady rise in the domestic slave population, resulted in slavery becoming this enormous economic engine that sucked in all the neighboring states and necessitating court decisions like Dredd Scott and new legislation like the Fugitive Slave Act.
Slave auctions right outside the halls of Congress, slave gangs kidnapping freemen as far north as Rhode Island and Wisconsin, and slaves being put on display in northern states by visiting southern plutocrats had a serious impact on northern perceptions of slavery. It wasn’t just a peculiar institution in a far away land, but a barbarism committed right out your own front door.
And it did culminate in a number of failed slave revolts, high profile slave murders, and various consequential conspiracy theories psychically destabilizing a lot of the southern population. John Brown’s raid was the fulfillment of a long-held fear in southern households - that one day all these slaves would rise up and murder their masters. And Lincoln’s election was seen as giving a guy like John Brown the Presidency.
That’s why the Civil War was already in full swing before Lincoln even took office. He didn’t need to do anything. The powder keg had already exploded before he even reached DC.
Thank you. I’ll have to read this when I’m in a better headspace to do so. I really appreciate your taking the time to write it and engage in good faith.
It has been a few months since you wrote this and I’ve finally been able to take since time to read it. I can certainly see the connections that you were making now. However, I’m not sure that I agree entirely with your conclusions.
The actions of the slavers were not intended to bring about positive change. Nor do I find evidence to suggest that making the world a worse place will inevitably push the pendulum in the other direction. It seems much more of a correlation/causation fallacy coupled with “ends justify the means” philosophy, intentionally inflicting suffering in the hope that it ultimately results in good, without concrete data to show that it would or even could.
However, again, I would like to thank you for taking the time to clarify. Both here and in other comment threads.
The thing is though, you might feel strongly about this and that’s absolutely fine, but most people just haven’t been pushed to breaking point yet. Like do I really want to engage in civil unrest and face state instigated violence against myself and probably my family, or do I just want to shuffle through the next 20 years with my head down hoping to have a few years peace before the grave.
Some people are already the head down, wondering what will kill them between a cop, homelessness or starvation.
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The problem is that the democrats / social democrats around the world have really become corporatism and are now exploiting the far right - they don’t have to enact left wing policies and can move further to the right or just do nothing. And then you’re called to prevent “literal hitler”. Yeah you have to, but it’s a catch 22.
A “green new deal” or universal healthcare isn’t even talked about anymore. People are just so sick of this shitocracy. And it’s spreading everywhere.
Nononono you see life is easier if you just say BoTh SiDeS and move on. Sort of. You kind of have to repeat this mantra every time politics comes up for the rest of your life. But it sure beats thinking! That shit is hard!
life is easier if you just say BoTh SiDeS and move on
When they’re both drawing money from the same basket of mega-donors, they’re both pushing the same draconian border policies, they’re both encouraging historic levels of new carbon emissions, they’re both bankrolling an endless series of nightmare wars abroad, they’re both advocating lower taxes and privatization of Medicare/SS, they’re both deep in bed with Wall Street, they’re both “pro-life”, they’re both religious sycophants, they even both call one another “communists” as a derogatory slur…
FFS, man. Where’s the line?
But it sure beats thinking!
The more you think about it, the worse the situation looks. Its lose-lose. The only real question is whether we get Trump terrorizing the LGBT community at home or Biden flinging bombs at brown people living abroad.
Half the shit you said is flat out wrong, the rest is oversimplified thought-sloth. You’re 100% in the camp of thought avoidance if you can write this comment.
Half the shit you said is flat out wrong
Biden had a full Congress to work with when he took office in '21 and he rolled back virtually nothing advanced by Trump.
Actually, strike that. He let a bunch of the COVID-era good stuff lapse. No more monthly allocated child tax credits. No more suspended student debt payments. No more free testing and expanded Medicaid.
His immigration policy is worse. His foreign policy is worse. His fucking MONETARY POLICY IS WORSE. How do you pick the same Fed Chairman as Trump and get a worse monetary policy?!
thought avoidance
literally pointing at Biden’s actual policies while actually in actual office
These suck. Avoid that at your own peril.
Why are you lying about literally all of this? Satire or Putin puppet?
Have we moved from “Thought Avoidance” to “Insidious hand of the evil foreigner” this quickly?
People who allow themselves to think wonder “why”. Try it sometime.
Gibberish
Biden had a full Congress to work with when he took office in '21 and he rolled back virtually nothing advanced by Trump.
Yeah you have literally no idea what the fuck you’re talking about, like at all. That’s okay, not everyone needs to know everything about everything.
Check out Biden’s first 100 days of executive orders.
Immigration policy is worse
Objectively false as long as the perspective you have isn’t that of a xenophobic bigot.
His foreign policy is worse
Explain. If you’re referring to the stuff in Afghanistan then you’re unfortunately misled as Trump ensured that would have to happen through actions he took at the end of 2020.
“Literally pointing at Biden’s actual policies” by making shit up lmfao get the fuck outta here. Also, yeah, Dems had 2021-2023 to make stuff better. Unfortunately, yes, Sinema/Manchin have had disastrous effects in passing bills. Can you please point out a better bill from the current Congress or any Congress since Obama than the Inflation Reduction Act? Because I can’t.
I hope that you’re simply ignorant, the only other explanation is blatant malice.
Objectively false as long as the perspective you have isn’t that of a xenophobic bigot.
This, combined with the Texas state practice of police forcing migrants onto private property and then arresting them for trespassing has created an impossible situation for anyone seeking legal refugee status.
If you’re referring to the stuff in Afghanistan then you’re unfortunately misled as Trump ensured that would have to happen through actions he took at the end of 2020.
I’m referring to the ethnic cleansing in Gaza and the neighboring territories in Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon. I’m talking about our support for ethnic cleansing in Modi’s India and Zewde’s Ethiopia. I’m talking about our theft of $7B from the Afghani treasury on the departure of US troops, plunging the country into a famine. I’m talking about our continued military occupations in Haiti and Niger and Libya and Mali and Somalia. I’m talking about our tacit endorsement of the Polish blockade on Ukrainian harvest exports, because we’ve wedded ourselves to the US/EU agricultural deregulation efforts. And our support for Spainish, French, and German governments in the war on their own farmers who are in revolt over collapsing wholesale farm prices.
I’m talking about our $250B weapons export market in 2023, the highest in US history, which has contributed to escalating tensions from the Korean Peninsula to the Red Sea to the South Pacific.
Every year Biden has been in office has resulted in more war, more killing, more ethnic cleansing, in large part thanks to his international endorsement of some of the bloodiest wars since Vietnam.
“Literally pointing at Biden’s actual policies” by making shit up lmfao get the fuck outta here.
He has been a fucking disaster. In the midst of a labor shortage, he’s ratcheted up interest rates to depress wages. In the midst of record global temperatures, he’s overseen a new peak in US fossil fuel production and consumption. In the midst of record domestic energy consumption, his FTC and SEC have green-lit a new wave of bitcoin mining and energy hungry AI data harvesting.
More money than ever before for the FBI, the NSA, and the Pentagon. Some of the lowest salaries for educators, medical staff, and agricultural workers in 40 years. Biden’s “Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act” has flooded the investment markets with cash while doing nothing to improve quality of life for lay workers or retirees.
This is all real shit. Its why he’s fucked in the polls. America under Biden has gotten materially worse. You are not better of today than you were four years ago and that’s saying something given where we fucking started.
I hope that you’re simply ignorant
You’re cruising for the edge of a cliff screaming “Just stay the course”, and I’m sure you’ll be back here blaming the folks that called it once you crash land into November.
I think the best course of action is to just not vote! That way, I can be blamed when the United States becomes a facist religious country!
/s
Bro you just changed my life with this revelation!
If you keep saying “in a socialist utopia this wouldn’t happen” and do nothing long enough, a revolution will just happen and solve all the problems!
That’s what I’m saying!! Communism is the only way bro
Any day now!
If I put a picture of Karl Marx in my profile, does that make communism happen? I’ll do anything to have an excuse for not voting!
Nah you also gotta make sure to tell everyone on the Internet that both sides are the same so third party is the only real way
“Thinking is hard” is 5/4 of the way to right wing ideology.
Also 7/6 of the way toward a [insert label] person who thinks the whole system is so corrupt that we all may as well give up on anything but spreading doom
And when you or your partner get sent to prison because you had a miscarriage, you can rest easy knowing that at least you didn’t vote for the guy that wouldn’t have sent you to prison for having a miscarriage
Just a friendly reminder…
The first thing I’ll do as President is sign the Freedom of Choice Act https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BdrOrwmk78Y
Im pro choice https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nmzdkAbu8dY
Not my highest priority https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RxiDZejZFjg
parody… No https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1z4uhxpOnN0
Man I guess this makes him worse than the guy that’ll throw gay people in prison or something
Don’t get me wrong, Fuck Joe Biden, but don’t act like he’s worse than the guys who promise to do awful things and then follow through on those promises
This is the sort of post you make to get those that are really Russian shills or have absolutely no criteria to reveal themselves. There’s not any sort of comparison, and there’s going to be a lot of people who are going to try to equate them as the same to disenfranchise people from voting.
Biden is committing genocide but literally Hitle…
No actually Literally Hitler is a good description of Genocide Joe.
He’s an amateur compared to Xi.
My family fought in both world wars. My grampa was part of the North African campaign, a cousin went down on the HMS Hood after being sunk by the Bismarck during the Battle of the Denmark Strait…
Living in Canada and watching our neighbours to the south gleefully embrace the fascism we ALL fought against is both disgusting and terrifying.
How the hell did this happen?
Choosing between missing the point and ignoring the problem sucks.
LBQT ppl offended during republican presidency: 50k
War deaths during democrat presidency: 50k
You tell me which is the Hitler.
Walmart brand Hitler.
You’re having this conversation because those in charge (E: the obscenely and well established rich, not to be confused with the politicians they buy) want you to, so you’re busy fighting each other about the illusion of choice they’ve given you, instead of fighting them over the oppressive system they impose for their own benefit. The fact that you even have to ask just proves how well it’s working.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/10/14/liberalism-and-fascism-partners-in-crime/
You’re having this conversation because those in charge want you to
This is as deranged as a damn qanoner. It’s literally the exact same line of thinking. Yeah, you got this overly complicated world all figured out while no one else understands; believing there is a mysterious group in control is the most baseline conspiracy theory there is, it provides an understandable reason and solution to an infinitely complex reality that we cannot comprehend.
3 steps toward fascism with the guy who bypassed congress to back genocide or 5 steps towards fascism with the guy who wants to sidestep congress to back genocide.
They’re the same picture. 🤷
Things can get significantly worse. Stephen Miller is talking about red state militias being sent into blue states to deport immigrants who go to pro Palestine protests.
And you think democrats are going to do anything to stop them? The only true crime to dems is hurting Republican feelings. Texas told the feds to eat a dick, a bunch of other states committed to backing Texas against the feds, and all dems have done is wag a finger at them.
Guys, I can’t decide whether to elect Jim as the new mayor, or Charles Manson. If Charles Manson comes into my house to stab my family like he says he’s going to, can I really count on Jim to stop him?
"Guys, I can’t decide whether to elect Jim as the new mayor, or Charles Manson. Charles Manson is going to stab a bunch a bunch of people that may include me, luckily if we vote for Jim he’ll still stab a bunch of people but it probably won’t include me.
What? Elect somebody who doesn’t stab anybody? Get the fuck out of here with that leftist extremism, that’s just not how the world works! This is America, freedom dies if people stop getting stabbed, it’s the American way!"
- Jim isn’t stabbing, in this case
- Jim’s family’s friend who is stabbing has been stabbing since the 1960s
- You could hold Jim responsible for not putting a stop to his friend, yes, but his whole family has been okay with it for some reason, and kept giving the guy more knives since long before Jim came along, so putting the entire onus only on Jim is a little unfair. Yes, Jim should try to put a stop to it, I agree.
- Manson is going to stab a hell of a lot more people than Jim’s family’s friend, and actually has some personal friends who are way worse than Jim’s family’s friend, and he talks about how great they are and how he’d like to do some stabbing like they do. And already has his knives picked out and people he’d like to stab, which yes, includes you and me and both of our families, but that’s not fully the point here.
I feel a little silly even spelling it out, but yes, if there’s an election and Manson is in it and seems like he might win, you should vote against Manson. I would think that’d be a pretty universal take but apparently to a lot of people here, it isn’t.
Now you’re just outright lying. I’m going to pass on debating this disengenuous bullshit.
Just because you agree with who Jim is stabbing getting stabbed does NOT mean Jim is stabbing. I’m so over this neolib bullshit of “We’re fascist but it’s OK cause we have a pride flag”
Yes, Jim should try to put a stop to it, I agree.
you agree with who Jim is stabbing getting stabbed
Is today opposite day or something and no one told me?
Jim is Biden, and stabbing is genocide (specifically in Gaza with Likud as Jim’s friend), right? Or are we talking two different analogies somehow? Help me out here, because it seems like what you’re saying makes no sense at all.
I mean it’s more like no progress toward fascism or just fascism
“gEnOciDe!” the new bOtH siDeS!
