Overall, 39% of U.S. adults say they are “extremely proud” to be American in the most recent poll.
Meanwhile, only 18% of those aged 18-34 said the same, compared to 40% of those aged 35-54 and 50% of those 55 and over.
18% is still too high. As Obama’s pastor said, God damn America! Americans have very little to be proud of at this point.
My girlfriend and I were talking about this on the 4th when everyone was all cheery and waving their flags. I’m not proud to be an American, it’s not really free. Old, white, out of touch religious men are creating and enforcing our laws, our healthcare sucks, education sucks, infrastructure sucks, 2 party system sucks, and there’s so many god damn racists and sexist people that it boggles my mind…it’s 2023. If the republicans had their way entirely, we’d be living in a judeofacist country (which parts of the country already are). Christianity has our country by the balls and it’s ruining it even further.
Anyway, I can go on and on.
The wives of my friend group unanimously decided they straight up weren’t taking part in July 4th until their bodily autonomy and right to care is restored. It sucked not having a cookout but I can’t say I blame them in the slightest.
I don’t blame them. I was forced to go which is fine but I still wore my shirt that says “women don’t owe you shit” which received thumbs up from a few people, and angry stares from obvious repubs (obvious because they were wearing tank tops that bastardize the American flag and their fat guts were hanging out. I should have counted teeth but didn’t have time).
Imagine being so woke you circle jerk yourself out of a bbq.
Hey, can you please respond to this comment with what the definition of “woke” is ? Just really curious.
In this context this is the best definition i could find in the 30 seconds i was willing to look for it. I could’ve just said it but in the past redditors said I’m the only one to follow that definition and that’s just not true.
woke
The act of being very pretentious about how much you care about a social issue
http://woke.urbanup.com/12923996
This particular ud definition happens to have an equal number of thumbs up as down and if 5 years old.
The act of being very pretentious about how much you care about a social issue
It’s almost like people care a great deal about issues that directly affect them
Social issues as in racism, sexism, abortion, wage inequity etc? How is caring about those very serious topics “pretentious”? These are serious issues and they need to be addressed. Sorry that we don’t care about adrenachrome and pizzagate qanon bullshit.
Boycotting 4th of July celebrations is a silly way of protesting the government. That’s all I’m saying. It’s their right, but i think it’s goofy.
Ok, but what do you mean by “pretentious”? Who gets to decide how important an issue is to someone else? Pretentious means that a person is acting like an issue is more important to them than it actually is. Who decides how important it is to a person that they’re living in a country where police can kill an innocent person and not face a jury over it? Who decides how important it is to a person that the women in their lives can get raped and will be forced by the state to give birth to a child that is the result of the rape?
Your definition of “woke” is built upon a third party determining that someone else’s concern with an issue is not as important as they “pretend” it is. Who gets to decide that, and under what authority?
The perspective was “geez it sure feels dumb celebrating ‘independence and freedom’ while sisters throughout the state are being actively oppressed.”
They know a BBQ is a small thing, they know 12 fewer people watching fireworks won’t make a difference, and they’ll keep volunteering, protesting and voting accordingly… but when you’re struggling to bubble up any feelings of patriotism and failing to find enjoyment in the spirit of the holiday, why participate?
It’s not pretentious to want to own your own fucking body
I didn’t say that.
You literally said: “In this context, the act of being very pretentious”.
They asked on this context. Then what is your context of “woke” in reference to protesting a holiday celebrating a country that took away a right for women?
Here here.
Why would u be extremely proud lol.
What’s funny is there is a big contingent of mostly older Americans who are flag-waving super-patriots- except when it comes to anything Democrats or people on the left do. America is the best country on Earth. It’s also being destroyed by the “woke mob” and Antifa and the “Biden crime family.” None of it makes any sense, but if you ask them what they think of America, they will immediately say it’s the greatest country in the world.
So even then it’s still the best…
I’m not saying they’re sensible people. They’re Trump voters.
Yeah, makes sense.
I thought we were living in 2023. Why be proud of coincidence to happen to born in a location? Feel lucky compared to other locations, maybe that makes more sense.
It’s conceivable that one would be proud of their country for the actions their country takes, both domestic and/or world stage. Like I’m sure the people living in those Scandinavian where a vast majority of their country is healthy, happy, and even their criminals are treated with dignity and respect can be proud of how their country has turned out.
I don’t think it’s a common interpretation to feel self-directed pride due to one’s country. Unless, maybe, you’re the president or someone who makes actual decisions for the country.
I’ve met plenty of people from Africa: Kenya, Ghana, Mozambique, Sudan, Ethiopia; who are great friends and colleagues to this day from my days at NASA JPL
Incredibly brilliant people live outside of Europe too
I do not mean to be dense but I don’t follow how your comment applies to mine.
European Defaultism is inherently racist, and it’s a constant problem on the internet with left-wing people who pretend not to be racist, but loathe people of color and the countries they come from, only ever referencing white European countries as some sort of fake “utopia” that doesn’t really exist. It’s one of the most common forms of racism on the internet
Yep, so many times Americans online say “the rest of the world” when what they actually mean is “Western and Northern Europe”. It’s so frustrating, and like you said more than a touch racist (usually unintentionally so, but that doesn’t make it any less shitty).
Yeah, I’ve never understood it. Especially when that location gives you privilege over people in other places. You’re proud because you were born in a wealthy country due to no control of your own? Fuck your pride, there are people starving to death. Feeling lucky you’re not one of them, fine. Being proud of it? That makes you an asshole.
I guess the other way to think is. You should be proud America helped in developing the internet, uk for penicillin, Greece for democracy etc. what’s wrong in that?
Italy for pizza
Don’t forget lots of people have nuclear bombs now… that’s pretty cool.
What does that have to do with pizza.
I’m going to let you decide.
You can cook a pizza very fast in an atomic blast.
there is an optimal distance from the grocery store, where a nuclear blast would cook the frozen pizza section to perfection
As a German punk song said: “If you have nothing else to be proud of you can always be proud of your country”
I do feel extremely fortunate to be American, but yeah, it doesn’t really seem like we’ve done anything worth being proud of as a nation since… ww2? That was a fucking while ago.
I am very proud to say that I’m not proud to be an American. Being proud of your country is a path toward genocide.
America is a continent lol
You can have pride in your country without being stupid about it.
I’m proud to be an American. I’m not proud of everything America does.
I’m proud that we were the first to land on the moon. I’m proud that we (eventually) helped win WWII over the Nazis. I’m proud of parts of our art and culture, Asimov, (early) Game of Thrones, most of the best games in the world.
I also protested the Iraq war. I think our ultra-capitalist, corporate worshipping ways have been a negative influence on the world.
I’m proud of Al Gore’s call to action on climate change. I’m not proud we haven’t done much about it.
I’m proud we have the potential to get off planet, self-sustaining colonies going. I wish we’d push harder for it.
You can find reasons to be proud of your country without endorsing everything they do.
How dare you come here with nuance
Half of that shit happened before you were born and none of it was done with your help. I’m not American and my argument is not targeted towards Americans. No person should be proud of the coincidence of geography.
Exactly 1 thing this person said happened before I was born. We aren’t all 21.
Alright, touche. I still feel that this kind of nationalist pride is a very slippery slope.
I wonder why, could it have to do with these last few years that were batshit insane, with a leader that fits in terms of batshit insane?
This might be a little controvercial in american politics community (not so much under europeans but even here it kind of is) but there is no right way to be proud of the place you are born in! You can be proud of partular parts of your system, your society or similar but not the location, that’s always fucking stupid!
You should only be proud of the things you’ve done… Same with shame
I’m proud of your mom.
Never have been. I got a bad taste of what nationalism was all about very young and only grew to despise everything unjust about this country and it’s bullshit “we’re the best!” stuff.
I never got the point of civil pride. I was born and raised in a third world country, and people left and right were saying how proud they are to be from there. The fuck y’all proud of? Trash everywhere? Tourists getting scammed and harassed? Your own government making people “disappear”? Your president building unnecessary bridges and crippling the economy?
It always sounded so stupid honestly
Yo fellow bridge president haver.
Being proud of anything that you had no influence over always strikes me as odd.
Which is why I’m proud to be American!
Seriously, if you’re feeling like you haven’t been able to contribute as much as you want yet, get to work making change. We always need new volunteers to help run election campaigns, and lots of local governments are desperate for new hires.
What is there to be proud of?
Abolishing slavery, ending Jim Crow, giving women the vote, becoming one of the first dozen countries on the planet to legalize gay marriage, helping win WW2, helping support Ukraine, donating more to foreign aid than any other country on the planet, the Marshall Plan, everything about NASA, best national parks on the planet, entertainment capital of the world, first country to land a man on the moon, the whole “nation of immigrants” things making us one of the most diverse countries on the planet.
And of course, none of that excuses the dark parts of our history, the slavery, genocide, imperialism in Latin America, among many, many others. But that brings me to the thing I love most about American: with the exception of the loud Republican minority, we’re a country that actually reckons with the dark parts of our past and tries to make up for them instead of sweeping them under the rug. And then we get to work fixing them.
We’ve made so much progress even in my relatively brief lifetime-- in agonizing two-steps-forward, one-step-back fashion, for sure, but that doesn’t make it not count. I’m so excited to see where we go in the future.
I actually agree, there are many many things to hate America for, and I agree with them, and I will always vocally oppose those elements of this country and encourage others to do so, but, there’s also some great things we’ve done as a country and a people that I very much am proud to have been a part of personally. I won’t make pretense to the contrary simply because there are elements for which we ought to, and do, criticize
Abolishing slavery, ending Jim Crow, giving women the vote, becoming one of the first dozen countries on the planet to legalize gay marriage, helping win WW2, helping support Ukraine, donating more to foreign aid than any other country on the planet, the Marshall Plan, everything about NASA, best national parks on the planet, entertainment capital of the world, first country to land a man on the moon, the whole “nation of immigrants” things making us one of the most diverse countries on the planet.
- Slavery isn’t abolished; it can still, per the constitution, be used as punishment.
- Jim Crow may be ended, but the racism that enables it has always been alive and well
- Gave women the right to vote way later than it should have
- Same as above
- Only after being directly attacked
- Only because we spend so obscenely much on war. A billionaire that gives $1000 is not as generous as someone making min-wage that give $10.
- Self-serving imperialism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan#Modern_criticism
- like defunding it to where we have to privatize space flight now? Elon Musk approves!
- I… guess? Arguably has nothing to do with being an American. Lots of countries were throwing money at this-- we just randomly got there first.
- We’re openly and emphatically racist, as a country. We simultaneously reject immigration while requiring immigrants to be used as borderline slave labor to ensure our produce doesn’t get too expensive.
We’ve never been the shining city on the hill, but we sure want to pretend we are.
Self-serving imperialism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan#Modern_criticism
Something benefiting you doesn’t make it wrong? The US compared to the other powers of the time extracted much less wealth to its conquered territories, and genuinely benefited them in a lot of ways. Compare the US to what the USSR did to Mongolia, Eastern Europe, and Central Asia. Or, compare the US to what France, the Netherlands, Belgium, and Portugal did trying to hang on to their colonies and extract as much wealth from them as possible. Not to mention how many citizens of those countries are proud of that! The US obviously did engage in disgusting acts at the time, particularly in Vietnam, in support of the KMT, and genuine imperialism in Latin America. But- the Marshall Plan is not anywhere near on those levels.
We’re openly and emphatically racist, as a country. We simultaneously reject immigration while requiring immigrants to be used as borderline slave labor to ensure our produce doesn’t get too expensive.
I see you’re speaking for yourself.
From the wikipedia article you didn’t read:
The Marshall Plan’s role in the rapid recovery of Western Europe has been debated. Most reject the idea that it alone miraculously revived Europe since the evidence shows that a general recovery was already underway. The Marshall Plan grants were provided at a rate that was not much higher in terms of flow than the previous UNRRA aid and represented less than 3% of the combined national income of the recipient countries between 1948 and 1951,[110] which would mean an increase in GDP growth of only 0.3%.[7] In addition, there is no correlation between the amount of aid received and the speed of recovery: both France and the United Kingdom received more aid, but West Germany recovered significantly faster.[7]
Criticism of the Marshall Plan became prominent among historians of the revisionist school, such as Walter LaFeber, during the 1960s and 1970s. They argued that the plan was American economic imperialism and that it was an attempt to gain control over Western Europe just as the Soviets controlled Eastern Europe economically through the Comecon. In a review of West Germany’s economy from 1945 to 1951, German analyst Werner Abelshauser concluded that “foreign aid was not crucial in starting the recovery or in keeping it going”. The economic recoveries of France, Italy, and Belgium, Cowen argues, began a few months before the flow of US money. Belgium, the country that relied earliest and most heavily on free-market economic policies after its liberation in 1944, experienced swift recovery and avoided the severe housing and food shortages seen in the rest of continental Europe.[132]
Former US Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank Alan Greenspan gives most credit to German Chancellor Ludwig Erhard for Europe’s economic recovery. Greenspan writes in his memoir The Age of Turbulence that Erhard’s economic policies were the most important aspect of postwar Western European recovery, even outweighing the contributions of the Marshall Plan. He states that it was Erhard’s reductions in economic regulations that permitted Germany’s miraculous recovery, and that these policies also contributed to the recoveries of many other European countries. Its recovery is attributed to traditional economic stimuli, such as increases in investment, fueled by a high savings rate and low taxes. Japan saw a large infusion of US investment during the Korean War.[133]
compare the US to what France, the Netherlands, Belgium, and Portugal did trying to hang on to their colonies and extract as much wealth from them as possible. Not to mention how many citizens of those countries are proud of that!
I was not suggesting the people can’t be proud of the not-good things their country does-- only that they shouldn’t. Also: whataboutism never defends any given position or stance; don’t rely on it too much, if at all.
I see you’re speaking for yourself.
I don’t know what you mean. Are you saying that the United States isn’t generally pretty racist and that I’m just projecting? Or was this just a halfhearted attempt at an ad hominem attack? Elaborate please.
From the wikipedia article you didn’t read:
I did? (For the ad hominem accusation later this seems like an ad hominem too) I don’t see how that changes what I said. The Marshall plan was giving aid to countries to buy loyalty. It was still giving aid. The Soviets orchestrated coups in countries and seized their wealth to distribute throughout the USSR.
I was not suggesting the people can’t be proud of the not-good things their country does-- only that they shouldn’t.
I wasn’t suggesting they were right in being proud of it. I was arguing that compared to other powers of the era(and now) the Marshall plan was lacking harm.
I don’t know what you mean. Are you saying that the United States isn’t generally pretty racist and that I’m just projecting? Or was this just a halfhearted attempt at an ad hominem attack? Elaborate please.
I’m criticizing you collectivizing Americans in a “we”. Giving collective responsibility, actions, and desires where there are none. If you say “we did x” you are taking responsibility for x- but I didn’t do x and I will not take responsibility for it. So, I said I see you are speaking for yourself when you say “we did x”
I did?
I assumed you didn’t read it because the criticism is also that it didn’t actually help. That is to say, countries that got the money didn’t recover faster than those that didn’t. So what would you call something that benefits just yourself?
I was arguing that compared to other powers of the era(and now) the Marshall plan was lacking harm.
Is “lacking harm” something to be proud of?
If you say “we did x” you are taking responsibility for x- but I didn’t do x and I will not take responsibility for it.
I try not to take an aggressive stance, but this is 100% Grade-A bullshit. Where is this stance of yours when it comes to the Marshall Plan? The entire topic is about taking pride in the collective actions of the country. If “we” did things to be proud of, then “we” did things you should be ashamed of. You have to pick one mode of thought-- you can’t claim pride in just the good things while refusing responsibility for the bad.
That is to say, countries that got the money didn’t recover faster than those that didn’t. So what would you call something that benefits just yourself?
I never argued the aid guaranteed faster recovery on national level. I argued aid helped people who had their lives destroyed by a massive war. There are billions of factors that influence GDP growth, of course its not guaranteed aid can create it.
Is “lacking harm” something to be proud of?
For a major geopolitical action from a superpower- honestly yeah.
If “we” did things to be proud of, then “we” did things you should be ashamed of. You have to pick one mode of thought-- you can’t claim pride in just the good things while refusing responsibility for the bad.
We didn’t do things. I am not proud of the Marshall Plan, I am not proud of any actions by any government or any country at any point. I disagree with the person saying that you should be proud to be American- just as you do. But, I also disagree with your criticism of the Marshall Plan as harmful imperialism. I can disagree with two things at once. I said here you shouldn’t be proud of your country in another thread before even seeing your comment
A lot of that is just a list of problems America had that were solved by people fighting against the American government lol
Yes, which is the single biggest reason I’m proud to be American: because our people’s willingness to stand up for one another and keep fighting for a better tomorrow, even against the most powerful opponents, even at risk to their own lives.
This strongly implies this is something special about American people that isn’t shared by the rest of humanity.
Be proud to be human because our heritage is international. Splitting us up into national identities is ridiculous and only holding us back.
I can be proud to be American and a human at the same time. Saying “I love my family” doesn’t mean I don’t love other people too, and it doesn’t mean I think my family is somehow better than other human beings, it just means I love my family. Same logic applies here.
And what of the many atrocities committed by America?
And what of the many atrocities committed by humanity?
Based on that logic, you could be as proud of any past human achievements anywhere in the world. focusing on just the country you live in is arbitrary and illogical.
we’re a country that actually reckons with the dark parts of our past and tries to make up for them instead of sweeping them under the rug.
Almost every non-white American: lolwut?
For the non Americans, surveys can have any result depending on who and where you interview of course.
So much like any poll numbers can easily be skewed. It sounds like the polling company attempts to ensure a balanced urban and rural selection and balance between states and DC (which is sort of an imaginary 51st state if you will)
Here is how the company said this poll was taken:
Gallup interviews U.S. adults aged 18 and older living in all 50 states and the District of Columbia using a dual-frame design, which includes both landline and cellphone numbers. Gallup samples landline and cellphone numbers using random-digit-dial methods. Gallup purchases samples for this study from Survey Sampling International (SSI). Gallup chooses landline respondents at random within each household based on which member had the next birthday. Each sample of national adults includes a minimum quota of 70% cellphone respondents and 30% landline respondents, with additional minimum quotas by time zone within region. Gallup conducts interviews in Spanish for respondents who are primarily Spanish-speaking.
Source:https://www.gallup.com/175307/gallup-poll-social-series-methodology.aspx
There’s still a self-sorting selection bias, I imagine. The kind of batshit insane person that both will answer their phone when it’s an unknown number, and will then go on to answer a survey after they pick up the call.
I’m only kind of joking here.
I stopped at a mall one day to kill an hour before my A+ certification test. I was asked to do a movie trailer survey, but since I was checked out thinking of the exam questions the surveyor pretty much answered the questions for me.
The only other time I answered my phone was as a teen for some gas price survey in the 90’s as I craved ANY human interaction
I have a Pixel phone. It will screen unknown numbers and ask them why they are calling, and then pass on their response to me (text and audio). A vast majority just hang up when they hear the automated message. The few that don’t often end up being a recording that wasn’t sophisticated enough to know that it was being played to essentially another recording.
Edit: and by “unknown number” I mean “not in my contacts list”.
What is there to be proud of? An illegitimate court, house and senate bought and paid for by corporations and foreign governments, a capitalist economy that crushes 99.99 percent to lift the 0.01 even higher? These are points of shame, not pride.
Honestly I’m pretty proud of how well turned the ship around on gay rights. Like in the span of a decade there was like a 40% opinion swing on that. We’re still not where we need to be and it seems like it’s getting worse though tbh. I think Europe overtook us on that front because I feel much safer here in Germany being gay in public.
How (generally) genuinely nice and outgoing everyone is in the states. (Outside of the south where it tends to be a very fake in my experience.) In the states I’m mildly introverted, in Germany I’m usually one of the most outgoing in the room.
Our multicultural foods and stuff. You’re never more than a stones throw from really good Mexican, Chinese, Thai, etc. food anywhere in the US.
Turning right on a red light, the European mind cannot comprehend it.
Air Conditioning.
Handicap accessibility.
Our national parks are unparalleled.
Probably a few other American gems I could think of if forced to.
All that being said I’m immigrating to Germany right now and the grass is very much greener over here. I have no desire to live in the US again. I’m definitely not proud of America anymore, but I am proud of a few things about America.
Pretty damning with faint praise there really.
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Just saying that cars turning right on red have almost run me over as a pedestrian multiple times.
Yeah, our and driver- and car-manufacturer-friendly policies have a measurable impact on the safety of non-car users of public infrastructure.
Not a great example IMO.
I’m sorry, and I know this isn’t the point you’re trying to make, but the idea of someone asking an American why they’re proud to be an American, and they respond with “air conditioning” is just so funny to me that I’ve been giggling like a moron about it for the last 20 minutes.
Older Gen Xers as well. Actually, can’t really remember ever being proud to be an American.
Being proud of a piece of land just because you happen to be born in it makes no sense, but it’s specially nonsensical when that land belongs to the US.
