I am trying to choose between buying a Nintendo Switch or a Nintendo DS.
This may not be the perfect community to ask - but I can’t think of any better place.
The reason for my question: I don’t want to own obsolete hardware in 10 years. Lately most games seem to depend on a “phone home” feature, which is not really an issue for my pc because it is always connected, but a console is something I want to play always and everywhere.
I already did some searching and found that games can be played offline fine (most of them, some exceptions are there like Multiplayer and Mortal Kombat), but:
- There is something like the paid Nintendo Online Account. I am not planning on having a paid account. How much of the system depends on the account?
- Can I have progression in a game (let’s say: one of the Zelda franchise) and will my Wife and Kids all have their own progression, without having to pay for X accounts?
- People who own a Switch, let’s take this to extremes, do you feel like in 20 years from now you can still do the same things on your hardware as you can do now? (No multiplayer is fine)
Also, feel free to rant about “paying is not owning”, the state of the gaming industry is horrible.
edit: Thank you all for the comments! I don’t post a lot, so it was kinda overwhelming :)
For clarity:
- I meant I want to “buy for life” (not really “life”, but, if the hardware survives you can play on pre-internet consoles forever - you can even buy more games if you can find them)
- I want to buy a physical copy of the games, not download them
I’ve decided to go with the Nintendo DS for now (I have a DSi - this week I bought a couple of games, 2nd hand). Reasons:
- I already had it
- Joycons on switch. Multiple people mentioned having problems with them. I don’t count on being able to buy them new in 10 years, meaning they will have to last.
Again: thank you all for the useful input!
My switch died after about 4 years. A capacitor burned, tried to replace it, but still nothing happens… dont know if Ill get it to work again
I’ve owned my switch since 2017 and Ive never used Nintendo’s online services, I think they’re actually DNS blocked or if I forgot to DNS block them then my console might be banned but it makes no difference to me, I get an error it can’t connect to Nintendo when I start some games but other than having to click past that it’s smooth sailing.
You can still have multiple users/profiles/saves without needing to link Nintendo accounts at all.
I think most of what I do with it now I could still do in 20 years although if I’m being totally honest one thing I use a lot is moonlight to remote stream games off my desktop and Im sure you could use it with current Gen PCs to stream but I’m guessing the between wifi and video codec standerds changing over time i dont think moonligbt will still work in 2044…but thats probably a bit outside the scope of your question.
An easier way to put it, the switch is currently probably the best modern console for piracy and that should tell you a lot about how little it depends on any kind of (not already cracked) authentication
Get a Switch, get it right now, also get this tool. The answer currently is yes, as long as the hardware still works & the battery doesn’t explode, and a switch combined with the MIG tool will give you a robust local library of games. Get your rig + MIG & never connect that switch to the internet ever again.
Nintendo is notoriously litigious & overly protective of all things Nintendo. The MIG Switch cartridge looks AMAZING but obviously Nintendo fucking hates it & they will probably try to issue a patch that nerfs it and/or kills your Switch in the future.
People thought the same thing in 1985. The NES still works.
You have plenty of answers already, but one thing I want to point out that might not have been mentioned yet: The DS line of handhelds are unique hardware; the Switch is not.
By that I mean there is a vast library of games developed over ~15 years that were designed for the dual screen layout. Don’t listen to what anyone tells you about emulation; those games are much, much better when played on actual Nintendo hardware, not because they run poorly on emulators, but because your phone, monitors, Steam Deck, and TV are one horizontal screen. Every alternative layout I’ve seen for emulating DS games is an awkward compromise to fit two screens on one. It sucks, it doesn’t look good, and you’ll have to change the layout on a per game basis because one size absolutely does not fit all.
Now look at the Switch. It’s a standard 16:9 720p touch screen. Everything that can and will ever be built powerful enough to emulate a Switch will display those games in the way they were intended to be presented. When Switch emulation is perfect (and it’s most of the way there) there is no compromise. You can already play Switch games on other handheld devices at higher resolutions and frame rates than the Switch itself can handle and it’s an objectively better experience.
I only offer this perspective because you’re talking about a very long term view of device ownership. We are now well past the period of game development on two screens as it existed on the DS line of handhelds. I highly doubt that phase of game design is ever coming back. And like it or not, many of those games are best experienced on the original hardware they were designed for and that will probably still be the case 20 years from now. On the other hand, we already have a plethora of alternative hardware options for games made for the Nintendo Switch and those numbers will grow considerably between now and 2044.
not because they run poorly on emulators, but because your phone, monitors, Steam Deck, and TV are one horizontal screen.
Me looking at my half unfolded Galaxy Fold 5.
Say what you will about the foldables, but I enjoy my versatility.
I would absolutely love a foldable handheld like that with some actual buttons. Sadly, I think those times are behind us, even with new folding screen technology. Maybe one day if haptic tech gets good enough to mimic physical buttons.
I invested in a usb-c game pad for my emulators.
Well said the only thing I’d add is the 3DS line can play original DS games just fine. I would go that route rather than purchase something like a DS Lite with a flashcart.
It can also emulate up to PSX relatively well and I believe there’s a somewhat decent homebrew scene. Not to the Vita’s level but I think there’s a decent amount of homebrew applications and custom themes.
The “new” 3DS especially is an improvement on the original when it comes to emulation. And yeah, just last week someone ported Moonlight for it, which works surprisingly well for a device that only has a 2.4GHz WiFi card.
I never liked to play DS games on 3DS because of the blurry screen: DS games run at a 256x192 resolution while the 3DS screens stretch that out to 320x240. Non integer factor scaling at such low resolutions is incredibly noticeable.
DSi (and XL) similarly can be softmodded with nothing but an SD card, though using a DS Lite instead with a flashcart can enable GBA-Slot features in certain DS games including Pokemon.
I don’t remember the buttons to hold, but when you boot a ds game on 3ds, and hold the right buttons, it boots pixel-perfect on a smaller segment of the 3ds screen such that it’s the same exact resolution as a ds screen
For future reference, consider [email protected]
If it’s like my other consoles from 20 years ago, It’ll be sealed in a box in the attic while you emulate it without a thought.
You can already emulate it with ease, lol. There are multiple Switch emulators, even
Assuming it is kept in working order, you’d be able to do everything you can do with it now, with the assumption the online services stay up. If they go down, you would lose your non-physical games and the ability to play online.
Your progression and everything is saved on the unit itself, and the hardware used likely will last for a long, long time if kept properly.
Almost nothing other than games you’ve bought on the store and online functionality in games is tied to your Switch account. And in 20 years time, who knows if that service will still be online.
The hardware (joy-cons) breaks itself in months.
Ok yeah. You got me there. The joysticks absolutely suck. The console will probably still work, but your left and right sticks are gonna be forever moving in opposite directions
Gulikit makes solid hall effect sensor analogue stick replacements for joycons. Had mine for months with no issues and, if it’s to be believed, should last for the long term.
People who own a Switch, let’s take this to extremes, do you feel like in 20 years from now you can still do the same things on your hardware as you can do now? (No multiplayer is fine)
No chance.
Not only it is unlikely that the hardware will last that long, the supplies for hardmodding it likely won’t either, and in 20 years there won’t be enough of a community interest to support hardmodding services unless some sort of master keys are leaked. And without hardmodding, the only Switches that you can install whatever you want on are very ld ones that were released with firmware 3.x or something, which are also less capable hardware and lower quality joycons.
Heck, if I had to bet on 5 years more instead of 20, I’d flat out sell my Switch and buy a Steam Deck 2.0 as soon as they release.
Not only it is unlikely that the hardware will last that long, the supplies for hardmodding it likely won’t either, and in 20 years there won’t be enough of a community interest to support hardmodding services unless some sort of master keys are leaked. And without hardmodding, the only Switches that you can install whatever you want on are very ld ones that were released with firmware 3.x or something, which are also less capable hardware and lower quality joycons.
Do you think that will be very relevant if we get things like the MIG Switch? I feel like there will still be a decent dedicated community for the Switch for a while. It is a Nintendo product with decent emulation/homebrew potential.
I don’t know enough of it to opinionate but I see at least two big issues (for me thinking about usefulness for that time period):
- it’s hardware, meaning it’s far more pricey and international access far more restricted (they do point out for example they don’t sell to end users).
- in theory it only runs Switch carts (or, technically, Switch installable packages). if so meaning they only supplement a previously jailbroken Switch’s setup (eg.: pegascape, atmosphere, emulators, …), not replace it.
it’s hardware, meaning it’s far more pricey and international access far more restricted (they do point out for example they don’t sell to end users).
I am hoping it’s one of those things we see replicated and sold across different sites for cheap. Kind of like how the MX4SIO was originally only sold in a few places by people like Helders Game Tech and now you can pick them up on Ali Express for dirt cheap pretty much wherever you are.
in theory it only runs Switch carts (or, technically, Switch installable packages). if so meaning they only supplement a previously jailbroken Switch’s setup (eg.: pegascape, atmosphere, emulators, …), not replace it.
Kind of like HEN for Playstation systems?
I’m using a thirteen year old XBOX 360 — love it. Have all physical media. It’s fun. 7 more years until 20 so I guess I’ll keep you posted.
But is it jailbroken?
That, for me, is pretty much half or 3/4ths of the point of “can I keep the same things” with the Switch. The console (any console, really) is useless for me if it comes without aftermarket / altermarket value.
It’s not jailbroken. I can still pick up games for it at garage sales. I haven’t run into problems — but I mostly play racing games — obviously not online but it’s still fun. RDR still runs. Working as usual.
Have you replaced the thermal paste? I just did mine
I’m not a huge gamer. 30 hours per year max. I get to longing some immersion so I do four hours and I’m free of the longing for months. I think this might be why I haven’t needed any maintenance.
My kids are still on an XBOX ONE but they too have pretty much grown out of excessive gaming.
Who knows how long these will last when the use falls to minimum.
Not only it is unlikely that the hardware will last that long
Electronic hardware can last for a very long time unless it’s mistreated. I still have a working Pong unit that’s all original parts. Also an NES and SNES and the only thing wrong with those is the SNES turned yellow over time.
For some weird marketing and CEO reason, electronics anytime after the Game Boy Advance don’t last more than 10~15 years, and spread themselves out like spaghetti if the transport clerk in charge haphazardly trips over your suitcase. From washing machines to vidya consoles, if you want it good it has to he old. Nintendo is no exception, the Switch is not anywhere as durable as the Game Boy Color, battery lifetime notwithstanding.
There are games like “Control” that are guaranteed to be dead in 5 years max as they’re glorified remote play solutions. The game is playing on someone else’s computer and streamed to the switch. So the bill for that computer is paid by new sales like a Ponzi scheme. No more sales = the dev turns off their servers = no more playing
control is streamed? for switch or in general?
It was news to me as well. Here is a Verge article talking about it but it says the following
In order to play the game, you’ll need a Nintendo Account to access cloud service and “a persistent high-speed internet connection to play the game.” (It includes similar technology to Stadia and Luna, but Control’s cloud game will be handled by Ubitus.) Any interruption in the connection will cause it to disconnect in minutes. In order to buy the game, players will be required to use a launcher application to test that their connection can handle its requirements for five minutes. It will also require buying an Access Pass, priced at $39.99.
I really hope it doesn’t go the same way as other game streaming services but I wouldn’t be surprised.
Nintendo online will go away at some point just like every other online serve they’ve had.
This isn’t Nintendo Online this is a third party service I’m worried about caving within a year or two.
I don’t expect it to last indefinitely I’m just hoping it lasts longer than things like Stadia.
Even with the best care I wouldn’t expect it to last 20 years. The switch is nowhere near a well built machine as the DS was. The controllers will be lucky to last a year. They used arbitration to avoid a lawsuit over how crappy the switch is knowingly built. We’ve been through three since their inception. That being said they’re still a lot of fun. They are trying to integrate the sub more, but it’s still avoidable on some games. If you buy one get a hard case or at least a somewhat solid case to help support the console with the controllers connected if you decide to play it that way. The way that they’re connected with what destroyed them faster for us because you put too much pressure on the controllers and their connection when holding it. Using a case like this for reinforce the controllers and make them last much longer in my experience.
The switch is very weak hardware wise but also very reliable I feel. For being a handheld device they’re surprisingly tough and cartridges do have a much better chance at longevity than disks so I’d say of all consoles I’d put Switch on the top for longevity and best odds of working well 20 years from now. Do note this is ONLY true of cartridge games. If you have Nintendo eShop games I don’t expect them to work 20 years from now because that eShop might not be around and I’m confident it uses some form of phone home checkin to verify DRM. That is likely fixable but out of scope for this discussion.
As for Steam Deck / other handheld PCs the games are less likely survive 20 years, games have already started to disappear from Steam (unpopular ones) and I very much doubt every game I have today will be available/playable. Because Steam will be dropping support and not every game is DRM free in ways that mean you can run them once they’re dropped from Steam. The PC handhelds also tend to work very poorly without Internet since Steam wants to phone home from time to time. As for the hardware I think the Steam Deck might last 20 years given it’s Linux based. Stuff like the ROG Ally will be hard to make work due to the outdated Windows on it and the likelihood that you can’t upgrade it and games/steam won’t work without an upgrade.
Unfortunately there is a fair number of games with a physical release that require downloads to be playable as they are not complete on the cartridge.
A steam deck can run all the games those two can and it runs Linux which means it will probably never be obsolete
Playing Nintendo first party games on Nintendo consoles is superior for many Nintendo first party games lover. It is just as it was when one was small 😄 that’s why right now, I go for 3ds.
Honestly, emulation is pretty nice and you can backup your saves without a subscription, unlike with Switch.
I talking modded Nintendo hardware, because it is the hardware style that the games are designed for, talking form factor and input devices. Especially in handheld mode, on the TV, it does not matter on what the game runs, at least for me
Exact same game;
Switch: 30fps
Steam deck: 60fpsHow is the switch superior?
There is a single aspect in which the Switch remains superior: Simplicity. Sure, you could take the time once to set up Yuzu and your Switch games and be rewarded with superior performance.
But the technically less experienced user might be put off by the fact that you can‘t just plonk in the game and play it. That‘s however not exclusive to the Switch.
I tried downloading Switch games from uuuuh… rather bespoke sites and they had a rather uuuuh… curious idea of what ads you could throw into the users face. Vivaldi‘s integrated adblocker simply couldn‘t handle those sites. That discouraged me from downloading games for now. Luckily MIG-Dumper is there to save the day and allow me to back up my games to later play them in Yuzu.
Is the Steam Deck emulating Switch games that much better? I’ve been thinking about setting up a few but I wasn’t sure if I would see a lot of performance dips with more demanding games.
Yes, many games run smoother and better on the deck, it just is very big and heavy achieving this.
Second that. It is a bit of a hassle to get all the games and to access them on the deck, but once you set that up, it runs great and you also are much less limited :)
The hassle is “search Pirate Bay for the game > download it into your games folder” after initial setup of emulators using emudeck
I would still steer clear of the Pirate Bay but depending on what you are looking for there’s likely a repacker or site that has what you need. FitGirl for example has some Switch games bundled with the keys that you need for Ryujinx. If you just needs ROMs I’d recommend checking out the /r/ROMs megathread.
It’s pretty repair friendly as well.
The battery is a notable exemption from this (as is the display), which is also the most likely to fail multiple times over a span of 20 years. It’s certainly doable, just not as simple as swapping out the thumb sticks for example.
Isn‘t the battery simply mounted with sticky tape and thanks to the case being screwed in still fessibly replaceable by the user?
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Acetone and/or floss (“sawing” through the glue under the battery). That’s how iFixIt instructed to remove a battery from a 2016 MacBook Pro that was also fixated using nasty sticky tape.
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Check this iFixit guide: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Steam+Deck+Battery+Replacement/149070
It’s listed as “Difficult” and “2-4 hours”.
In comparison, the iPhone 15 Pro battery replacement guide is listed as “Moderate” and “1-2 hours”.
One of the problems with the Deck’s battery is that it’s glued in place so well you have to heat up the adhesive, and applying heat close to a battery is something you have to be quite careful about.
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Nintendo online is a lot like Xbox live. You can play single player without it (generally) but have to pay to get online/multiplayer
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yes, you can have multiple accounts on the switch each with their own save, without paying for online for all/any of them.
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I don’t know if I’d guarantee that. Who knows what dumb services things rely on. If you want something that’ll work maybe consider a more open ecosystem like that of the steam deck or its competitors
I don’t know if Steam counts as an “open” ecosystem though. You still kinda need to be online to play Steam games, and you can only launch said game with Steam. DRM free option would be GOG games, which doesn’t require online and the GOG launcher to play games afaik.
Yeah but you can install whatever OS you want and pirate the games. That’s its as open as you will ever find.
He said steam deck, not steam. You can install games from all stores (eg gog) and any operating system you want on the deck
If you run SteamOS I don’t think you can, can you? But other than that, yeah I get the point.
You still kinda need to be online to play Steam games
It depends really, I’ve personally never been prevented from opening a Steam game with or without a connection.
Some other games are less clear - I’ll use Palworld as an example: this can be played offline, on a dedicated server on the same network, but it needs to fetch your username from Steam first, and perform some checks using Epic Online Services. As long as it’s started by the Steam client it’s OK, and the errors regarding EOS servers can be dismissed.
Some people have managed to join official online multiplayer servers using pirated Palworld copies, so I would not expect the current graceful network error handling to be so lenient in future updates.
you can only launch said game with Steam.
Pirated steam games can be started using an open source steam emulator - protection is basically non existent compared to intrusive DRM like Denuvo. Although I do get where you’re coming from in regards to the platform & accompanying client software being a closed ecosystem.
Steam’s hardware on the other hand, that’s open all day long 👌
DRM free option would be GOG games, which doesn’t require online and the GOG launcher to play games afaik.
I fully agree.
I’m going to be controversial here with the launcher requirement though: I use Steam because it is a launcher, games store, save file sync client, online social platform, modding client (Workshop) and games library all in one. Any device I pick up - my deck, linux laptop, or windows desktop - will continue from where I left off, without fail.
For that reason the only DRM I’ll turn a blind eye to is Steam’s own: it never gets in the way of me accessing what I purchased. With Proton/SteamPlay, games originally targeted for Windows work seamlessly on my preferred platform, Linux. If a game is unsupported, it will still set up the compatibility layer for you at your choice, for further investigation at your leisure.
Their policies also prevent developers from revoking games from users’ libraries, unless it’s a Free To Play title (most of these will have an EULA orange warning box stating such).
DRM should not have to exist at all to be honest, but in the current reality where publishers want some “protection” on their games, I’ll either accept the single, most unrestricted one, or head to the open seas 🏴☠️
I am told that if you are offline w/ steam for more than 30 days or so it kind of requires you to go online. I am unsure exactly how true this is because I’ve never had that much of a cap in my internet availability.
You can start steam in offline mode.
They said the Steam Deck and it’s competitors. They are talking about handheld gaming computers which can be used to play whatever; including Switch games. Not Steam specifically.
I’m fully aware of other options like the ROG Ally, I’m just talking specifically about the Steam Deck :)
Steam Deck is an open platform because you can run any OS, launcher, etc. on it. It’s just a handheld PC. Steam itself is a closed ecosystem but the Deck is very open.
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There are fitgirl repacks for most switch games. Emulators and all bundled.
